Any half-decent striker will score a fair amount of goals given good service. I think, for a time, Hernandez was a very good impact player, but I don't think he's ever been much more than a slightly above average striker. He's had a horrendous dip in confidence and that's seriously effected his ability as a striker. You say that he's good at scoring goals, but he only managed 4 last season, and it's been plain to see that his finishing, anticipation of chances, touch and positioning have all regressed dramatically. Even when he's getting chances he's barely a goal threat anymore. I also don't know where you've got this assists thing from because he's only had 7 in his whole time at the club.
Chicharito Loan Watch | Real Madrid
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Any half-decent striker will score a fair amount of goals given good service. I think, for a time, Hernandez was a very good impact player, but I don't think he's ever been much more than a slightly above average striker. He's had a horrendous dip in confidence and that's seriously effected his ability as a striker. You say that he's good at scoring goals, but he only managed 4 last season, and it's been plain to see that his finishing, anticipation of chances, touch and positioning have all regressed dramatically. Even when he's getting chances he's barely a goal threat anymore. I also don't know where you've got this assists thing from because he's only had 7 in his whole time at the club.
Given the amount of chances they create Hernandez would 20 goals for Arsenal no matter if he's United quality or not.
Chelsea actually made a bid for Chicharito when we bought RvP, which we rejected. He started 6 league games last season, you cannot seriously question his form and scoring numbers based on that. Some people can make a world of excuses for one of our players and treat another with such utter disdain its unbelievable.
He only made 9 starts in 2012/13, and actually made 2 appearances less than he did in 2013/14. Despite this, he still managed 10 league goals, which is significantly better than the 4 he managed last season. So, yeah, you can question his form based on the number of starts considering he made a comparative amount the year before. He looked a shadow of the player he was in his first season for us, and he's started this season looking worse if anything.
Are you using that as an argument? The fact that he turned a decent goal return in limited appearances is actually commendable and not worth complaining about when he couldn't do it more than once. Ferguson did a great job of making the fringe players feel like they are integral to a squad's success and placed faith in him in a bunch of big games, so of course he would play out of his skin for a boss like that. He was treated worse than a used napkin last season and it showed in his confidence.
Tbf he is type of striker that relies on service. Last season there was no service and it also depends on what time and how he was used.
Think he needed to move last summer anyway or go bit stale plus the added affect of the team playing crap and Moyes not using his qualities properly all played a part.
Your argument for his lack of goals and form was his lack of starts. I pointed out that he performed far better the season before. You made the argument about a lack of starts, not me.
I agree that he suffered from a lack of service, but he still wasn't up to standard when he got it. Perpetually offside, and on the rare occasions that he wasn't, he regularly cocked up chances with poor touches, poor decision making and poor finishing.
As we saw last season, he's a severely limited player that is only useful when the rest of the attacking part of the team are firing on all cylinders. If they aren't, he's almost a handicap, such is his lack of contribution.
If, as you suggest, Hernandez needs a) the rest of the team to be playing well for him to be of any use, b) a manager as rare as Ferguson as his gaffer, and c) a large number of starts to be of any use, then he's clearly not good enough.
He played in more league games last season than he did in Fergie's last year, so it seems somewhat inaccurate to claim that Moyes didn't have faith in him and treated him like shit. If Moyes was guilty of anything last season it was of being over-accommodating to the underperforming players, of which Hernandez was one. With the possible exception of Fabio, I don't think it's particularly fair to say that Moyes treated any of our players poorly.
Eh, in the EPL yeah he had more appearances but in overall appearances he had 1 less appearance? Also let's not kid ourselves but Chich didn't play a whole lot last year either. Yeah Hernandez made almost the same amount of appearances in Fergie's last season and last season but SAF wasn't bringing him in post 80th or 85th minute so many times like Moyes did. Moyes probably brought him in 15-20 times really late in the game. Under SAF he was usually his first sub and would give him 30-35 minutes of game time as a sub, not 15 minutes at most. You can just see Moyes wasn't really keen on him. I would even argue that he suffered the worst under Moyes seeing as how good he was for us up until SAF's last season.
Looking at just appearances is rather daft. He got the least minutes of his United career last season and was often thrown on at 80 or 85 mins to salvage a point. He's capable of that but that was Moyes' complete plan for him.
There was a rather funny 'Wheel of Substitutions' pic doing the rounds on here last season.
The difference in minutes between 2013/14 and 2012/13 is literally a game and a bit. It's hardly of any significance.
You are literally just making stuff up about his time under Moyes.
Of the 16 sub appearances he made for Moyes, he came on in the last 10 minutes just twice. He came on with about 5 minutes left at home to Swansea when we already 2-0 up, and came on with about 10 minutes left at home to Everton when it was still 0-0. Even if we generously extend this to the last 15 minutes, which is more than ample time for a player to make an impact, it only adds another 4 appearances, and of those we were already ahead in 2. He came on away to Stoke when were 2-1 down, and against City at home when were 2-0 down. He made one late sub appearance when were chasing a goal under Moyes, and that was looking for a winner. If I add time to your claim, it still only adds two more games. Of these 3 games, we ended up conceding in 2, one of which changed the result to a loss. Of all the criticisms you could aim at Moyes, only using Hernandez as a desperate sub in the last 5 minutes of games is not one of them. In fact, when used as a sub, Hernandez averaged more time on the pitch under Moyes than he did in 2012/13 under Fergie.
It was obvious once van Persie arrived that Hernandez would slip down the pecking order, and he may have slipped even further with the emergence of Welbeck, something that was reflected in the decrease in appearances in Fergie's last season. With this in mind, it appears your claim about faith in big games under Fergie is also bullshit. Under Moyes, Hernandez featured in 7 of the 12 games against City, Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal, Everton and Spurs, playing 119 minutes of football, and playing less than 10 just once, in the home defeat to Everton. In fact, he played half an hour or more in 3 of them. In 2012/13 he played in 6 of them, but was only given 43 minutes of football. He played over 10 minutes just once, came on with 2 minutes or less to go in 3 of them, and with five minutes less in another.
That's already more appearances as a late sub than under Moyes, and it doesn't even include games against the weaker sides. Additionally, his last minute use against Chelsea was to chase an equaliser, his last minute use against Arsenal was to chase a winner, his last 5 minute use against City was to chase an equaliser, and his last minute use against Spurs was to chase an equaliser. In addition, he came on with just over 10 minutes left when were chasing a winner against West Ham. He came on against Liverpool with less than 10 to go, and he came on immediately following us taking the lead from a penalty, so it seems likely that he was warming up in anticipation of being used to try and grab the winner as a late sub. If anyone used Hernandez as a desperation sub in the dying moments of games it was Fergie in his last season with us. Hernandez only made 13 sub appearances, and 7 of them involved coming on in the last 15 minutes, 5 when we needed a goal.
Hope it's Valencia where he goes if he goes. Juve can feck off.
I don't know what that is supposed to expose which isn't already known. 839 minutes is little more than 9 full games of football over a season. In Fergie's final season you could atleast say that RvP was fit and on form for pretty much all of the season and he was also sharing time with Welbeck at that time. Its natural that Hernandez's minutes would diminish, as did Welbeck's from the season before.
Here's the minutes comparison for each of our strikers before and after RvP's arrival.
2011: RvP - 0 Rooney - 2,838 Danny - 2,018 Hernandez - 1,476
2012: RvP - 3,123 Rooney - 2,020 Danny - 1,291 Hernandez - 945
2013: RvP - 1,584 Rooney - 2,448 Danny - 1,459 Hernandez - 839
As Van Persie's minutes drop by almost half in 2013, Rooney & Danny see a slight increase while Hernandez's minutes drop even further. Ofcourse you could attribute some of it to Mata's signing and Moyes sticking to 4-4-1-1 but still he had little opportunity to build on anything. In 2011 he admittedly had a below par season and Fergie attributed that to him playing non-stop football over the summer, jetting in between Manchester and North America often for international appearances and so on and so forth. He got his rest in 2012 and had a nice rebound despite limited chances.
Frankly he is surplus to requirements and other than his rookie season, he never really got the constant burn to replicate that form but suddenly calling him not United standard is quite frankly insulting when he was player of the season when we won the league and reached the champions league final. He will most certainly leave for everyone's good but he deserves to be remembered better than someone who couldn't cut it or wasn't upto United standard.
When he played, he was awful. You don't play someone who is playing badly week in, week out, and you certainly don't play someone as limited as Hernandez when they're playing badly. I don't see why it's insulting to say he wasn't United standard last season when he was absolutely atrocious in pretty much every appearance. I've not said he wasn't United standard when we signed him because he obviously performed very well, but he regressed dramatically last year, and you can't pin that on a lack of opportunity when he performed far better the season before given a similar amount of opportunity.
As I've repeated time and time again now, he was a luxury player who's key attributes have regressed to a point where he's virtually useless. People keep going on about how he needs service, which he does. However, in his first couple of seasons, he was almost a one chance, one goal player. Now, he's always offside, or when he's not he can't control the ball, makes a stupid run, pointlessly fouls the defender, or just misses. He's no longer lethal in front of goal, and it's pointless keeping him on when he offers nothing to the rest of the play. Welbeck scored over twice as many goals and offered far more on top, Rooney managed over 4 times as many, and van Persie scored 3 times as many. They, presumably, were given similar service to Hernandez. Welbeck played less than twice as much, Rooney played less than 3 times as much, and van Persie played less than twice as much, yet their goal tallies and overall contribution were far better.
You started this whole argument by saying that you can't criticise his goal return because he didn't play much last year. I pointed out he scored far more in a comparative amount of time the year before, and you started going on about how Moyes only played him in the last 5 minutes. I pointed out how that wasn't remotely true, and you started going on about van Persie playing less but Hernandez not playing more. I've just pointed out that the other strikers performed far better, despite this apparent lack of service. How many more excuses are we going to make for Hernandez? He was good, and now he's not. Moyes isn't responsible for making him shit.
If the whole world works in a vacuum, that's a perfectly reasonable assessment but things don't work like that, especially for footballers. Him being shit is not the reason he did not get game time and 800 - 850 minutes is hardly enough sample size to make deductions on him, not when he was good in 2012 and not when was poor in 2013, that's the whole basis of sample size bias in statistics. If I had time to waste I could further look into how far he went between games without getting gametime as well, which is kind of important for players to not get rusty, especially for a striker like him but its still pointless.
So looks like it'll be a loan to either Valencia or Juventus with an option to buy.
Manchester United in surprise £16m negotiations with Spanish club, quick deal afoot
http://sportwitness.ning.com/forum/...-surprise-16m-negotiations-with-spanish-club-
http://sportwitness.ning.com/forum/...-surprise-16m-negotiations-with-spanish-club-
Not only are the squad expected to bring in two more players on top of Daley Blind, but they also have to finalise several sales
Eh? Has any reputable source made this claim?
Hernandez was first off down the tunnel after the game yesterday (way ahead of everyone else) and didn't even acknowledge the fans.
He's off.
He's off.
i like the way the caf interprets players body language:
Hernandez didn't acknowledge the fans = he s off
Vidal acknowledged the fans = he s off..
Life s so simple!
£16m is a very good price for him.
Hope this one goes through before the end of the window.
Still, he'll be on the bench there too probably. You never know though, a fresh challenge might bring out the best in him. He's given us two very good seasons (his first and his third) but is one of quite a few who have gone stale and need to move on now.
All the best to him if it goes through.
Hope this one goes through before the end of the window.
Still, he'll be on the bench there too probably. You never know though, a fresh challenge might bring out the best in him. He's given us two very good seasons (his first and his third) but is one of quite a few who have gone stale and need to move on now.
All the best to him if it goes through.
Daniel Taylor
Alright then.
If he goes to RM he will have a field day with all kind of deliveries from Ronaldo, Bale, Modric, Kroos, James, Isco 
Still won't start ahead of Benzema though.
Still won't start ahead of Benzema though.
Do you think we at least told him which club he was going to or will it be a big surprise?
Deliveries from Ronaldo & BaleIf he goes to RM he will have a field day with all kind of deliveries from Ronaldo, Bale, Modric, Kroos, James, Isco
Still won't start ahead of Benzema though.
I hope it's Valencia he's going to for his sake. He's not going to play much at Madrid which makes no difference staying with us here
?Deliveries from Ronaldo & Bale
So if he goes and welbeck goes we are left with a striker who will be injured for half a season, one who will spend half the season "playing his way into form" and an untested youngster......
Yep! the very same striker's fans have been calling for one to be dropped/benched! so maybe LVG was listening?
Real getting one of our rejects again? Get in
If he went to Real that would be an odd one, though suppose if you get the offer it's hard to turn down, but he definitely wouldn't be going there for game time.
The reason Real Madrid want him is his marketability. So many Mexicans will support Madrid and if he signs buy Chicharito on the top.
Plus he's just a very marketable player anyway to all fans and also would be a decent back up to Benzema.
Plus he's just a very marketable player anyway to all fans and also would be a decent back up to Benzema.
Offers a good backup and different option off the bench.
Plus sells shirts.
Plus sells shirts.
They wouldn't create as many chances with him in the team. That's the problem with Hernandez.
Sorry to see him go,good luck Chich.
Real getting one of our rejects again? Get in
https://twitter.com/CH14_ Chicha has 4m followers, all Mexican fans. He is 3rd starter for Man utd and is 2nd starter for Mexico.
I don;t think he will bought for that to be honest, Hernandez is a very good poacher and Ancelloti would know about that. He knows he will get the team goals like he did with us. People seem to forget all the late goals Chicha has given this team.
He has one of the highest goals to minutes in the premier league