I'd be frigging over the moon if we got Cesc. Either him or Kroos would be amazing.
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Plenty of your stats are about how many goals he scores from midfield and that's because he's an attacking CM and would indeed get in the way of Mata the same way he's takes up the same space as Iniesta or Messi at Barca.
I struggle to comprehend how anyone who watched Fabregas play in the Premier League could turn down the chance to sign him. Based on that I'm assuming those who don't want him never used to watch the Premier League back then, and only know Cesc as a makeshift second striker/false 9 at Barca.
Barca make him take up that space. Which is why he's never been as good at Barca as he was at Arsenal, where he played in his actual position as a CM.
Buy him and for next season, we have a very good amount of midfield stock. Carrick and Cleverley will do well under LVG and I think Felliani can only get better. Add Fabregas, Kagawa, Mata, Fletcher and Rooney as additions and its well stocked for a non CL season.
Once LVG firmly established he should then go for the major midfield re-set next summer, bringing in another 2 major signings and brooming out his own identified deadwood.
Im honestly not in a massive hurry to win the PL again. I'd much rather LVG be given the time toi put down very solid foundations that can start anew 4-5 year cycle.
Of course, Kroos, Fabregas and Strootman would be FM transfer muppetry and in that situation, we would also have to release several of the above.
Once LVG firmly established he should then go for the major midfield re-set next summer, bringing in another 2 major signings and brooming out his own identified deadwood.
Im honestly not in a massive hurry to win the PL again. I'd much rather LVG be given the time toi put down very solid foundations that can start anew 4-5 year cycle.
Of course, Kroos, Fabregas and Strootman would be FM transfer muppetry and in that situation, we would also have to release several of the above.
That's just agreement to agree, you can't structure a binding contract like that.
Is this just fantasy?
How is it any more difficult to put in a contract than a set fee?
Why do you think most Barca fans don't want him to replace Xavi in CM then?
Because they've been playing him in a winger's spot ever since they bought him and so understandably he's never really shown them how good he is.
And also because football fans are often stupid. I mean, I'm assuming by the side of this argument that you're on that you don't want him to replace Cleverley in CM. By comparison, not wanting him to replace Xavi is actually halfway reasonable.
Wut ? Ok even though I'm bursting to retort at the lack of information in this post I'll try to be nice and explain it in the simplest way I can.
Cesc played as a #10 AM towards the end of his Arsenal career. During the tenure I mentioned he mostly started as a #8 central midfielder. He even wore Vieira's #4 and infact he only took up a more prominent role at #10 (which is Mata's position as you keep banging on acout time and again) sometime around the 2008 season after the departure of Thierry Henry to Barcelona. He had some excellent 4-5 seasons since 2003 when he played as the CM paired with Vieiera/ Gilberto. At this time Arsenal were pairing Henry with combinations of Bergkamp/ Van Persie/ Reyes. How can Fabregas play in a "Mata" position when they have Bergkamp and Van Persie and Reyes for a while ? He played as a #8 in a 2 man midfield like Scholes. Infact he took up the mantle of Vieira who left for Juventus and partnered Gilberto with distinction. In what way is that a "Mata" role ? Scoring goals from central midfield doesn't mean you're a CAM or you'll suck up the spaces of your actual #10. Look at Ramsey or Yaya Toure, two of the best midfielders in the Premier League. Did they get in the way of Ozil or Aguero behind Negredo or Silva ? Do you see the fallacy in your argument now ?
Why are people so certain there is this fabled buyback clause anyway? There seems to be just as much hearsay to say it's actually just a standard release clause.
Because it's not binding in any real sense eg Spurs bid £100m for Cesc (without any intention of finalising an agreement with the player and trigger the buyback for £100m which we turn down) Barca sell to Man Utd for £45m. Simply doesn't work.
And how does he do that without the players he needs? Some on here seem to think all Van Gaal has to do is turn up and we'll be playing free flowing football and get straight back in the top 4.
There is absolutely no reason why he shouldn't go for the players he wants this summer. Why delay what everyone knows needs to happen?
Simply word it that Arsenal have the opportunity to match any bid accepted by Barcelona. Easy.
Indeed. Arguably the best midfielder in the PL for years on the spin.
And despite the "Spanish" part of his game, having learned his trade over here he has that edge that you see on English players. He'd be a start here.
Of course I think Fabregas would be an upgrade on Cleverly but I'd much rather see our funds being directed towards Vidal/Pogba or Gundogan when he's fit. We also need at least 1 CB/wide player and that's assuming we get Shaw on top. I'd hate to see us blitz 40m on Fabregas only to see what I think is inevitable that we play similar to how we did last season with no drive/pace/penetration and just a load of wannabe 10's playing in between the lines getting the ball into feet and going in circles.
Wut ? Ok even though I'm bursting to retort at the lack of information in this post I'll try to be nice and explain it in the simplest way I can.
Cesc played as a #10 AM towards the end of his Arsenal career. During the tenure I mentioned he mostly started as a #8 central midfielder. He even wore Vieira's #4 and infact he only took up a more prominent role at #10 (which is Mata's position as you keep banging on acout time and again) sometime around the 2008 season after the departure of Thierry Henry to Barcelona. He had some excellent 4-5 seasons since 2003 when he played as the CM paired with Vieiera/ Gilberto. At this time Arsenal were pairing Henry with combinations of Bergkamp/ Van Persie/ Reyes. How can Fabregas play in a "Mata" position when they have Bergkamp and Van Persie and Reyes for a while ? He played as a #8 in a 2 man midfield like Scholes. Infact he took up the mantle of Vieira who left for Juventus and partnered Gilberto with distinction. In what way is that a "Mata" role ? Scoring goals from central midfield doesn't mean you're a CAM or you'll suck up the spaces of your actual #10. Look at Ramsey or Yaya Toure, two of the best midfielders in the Premier League. Did they get in the way of Ozil or Aguero behind Negredo or Silva ? Do you see the fallacy in your argument now ?
If you want anyone to take you seriously and actually respond to one of your posts then I would cut out the "I'll explain it the simplest way I can" patronising talk, you just come across as juvenile and I didn't even bother to read the rest of your post.
No hard. They can't accept the bid can they? ... it has to be an offer, which is contingent and can be withdrawn.
Fabregas doesn't have anything close to the patience of Xavi. Xavi takes delight in purely dictating the game: That's how he gets his 'buzz', so to speak.
Fabregas wants to get involved higher up the pitch; he wants to make more assists, score more goals, carry the ball more.
In fact it's not even about 'wanting to'; it's just what comes naturally to him - to play more on the edge. Less emphasis on 100% accuracy and more emphasis on productivity higher up the pitch.
The Xavi role requires a patience and discipline that I don't think Fabregas has. Busquets is closer to the Xavi role.
Fabregas wants to get involved higher up the pitch; he wants to make more assists, score more goals, carry the ball more.
In fact it's not even about 'wanting to'; it's just what comes naturally to him - to play more on the edge. Less emphasis on 100% accuracy and more emphasis on productivity higher up the pitch.
The Xavi role requires a patience and discipline that I don't think Fabregas has. Busquets is closer to the Xavi role.
Balague reporting that there is no buy back clause.
Yeah I'd agree. Although in fairness you could make a good highlights video of his Barcelona career too because he's always good for a few moments even in an underwhelming game, which I guess is a quality but not one I'd rate highly in a midfielder.
This again? He's played in centre midfield quite often at Barcelona, and pretty much every time he's been awful. Look at the last game they played and you'll see an abysmal centre midfield performance by Cesc that ended with him being booed off (again). It's clear he has problems fitting into their style of play, and I'm in agreement with those who think he'll be a lot better when/if he leaves, but to say he hasn't been played in his proper position is nonsense.
Again, not true. He's played on the wing about 5 times, maximum. If anyone gets shunted wide from midfield it's been Iniesta, and occasionally Messi - Cesc always plays centrally.
Who can't accept what bid? Are you suggesting no first option clause has ever been written into a contract?
Man this summer is going to be a real rollercoster if we don't nail a top player before the world cup.
Anyway Cesc is a top quality player, who if we signed would probably end up being the best CM in the EPL IMO. Whoever doubts his ability due to his Barca form (which isn't even that bad) is crazy.
Anyway Cesc is a top quality player, who if we signed would probably end up being the best CM in the EPL IMO. Whoever doubts his ability due to his Barca form (which isn't even that bad) is crazy.
I once again really think this may happen.
I think we'd win the league if we got him.
I think we'd win the league if we got him.
It's not his position that he's struggling with, it's the steady dictation style Barca play. As others have said, he's not got the mindset to calmly dictate the game to the style Barca want him to.
It's not patronising at all buddy, I said it in the friendliest manner possible, even attached a little smiley at the end. It just that you're acting really touchy despite posting some really awfully ill-informed opinions. I'm not gonna lie - you've displaying an acute lack of understanding wrt Fabregas with every subsequent post and keep calling him a No. 10 when he clearly just isn't one (eg. The bolded part above when you still continue with that). So I feel compelled to break it down to the absolute basics because I genuinely feel you didn't see Fabregas at all during his peak PL days. You keep talking about drive and pace when our greatest ever central midfielder Paul Scholes had neither of those. As our new manager LVG eloquently puts it "Running is for donkeys" or something. Not that it doesn't matter and players should stay pat like zombies. But what it means is that creativity, special awareness and deftness in passing can compensate for physical ruggedness. Look at probably the top CM in Europe this season - Modric. He's neither really fast nor has the great drive like Pogba/ Vidal. Yet he has been the most effective Cm around Europe this season. And Fabregas has similar qualities in spades. Anyway you don't have to read the rest of my posts since I'm "juvenile" and you don't want to. You can carry on calling him a "wannabe #10" despite contrary evidence. I got no problem with that. I won't bother correcting it in the future since you're so easily offended.
Eh? Modric and Cesc are polar opposites in midfield...
Modric is a good, safe passer who doesn't have the same ability to play a final ball as Cesc while Cesc doesn't have the quick feet that Modric has to get away from defenders, the balance that Modric has or the ability to harry the opposition. I'm not sure what the same qualities are there. I think Modric is a much better midfielder who can play in a more disciplined manner than Cesc is capable of. He'll never be the goal threat that Cesc is though.
Given a hypothetical situation where both Arsenal and United are fighting for him, would he pick us over Arsenal?
Modric is a level below Cesc.
You said we 'have the opportunity to match any bid accepted by Barcelona', I pointed out that's simply an offer which can be withdrawn not contracted etc etc ie not the basis for a binding clause in a contract.
Wut ? They are plenty similar of various levels. Just that it isn't a 100 % match. They're not exactly the same on every aspect, but then no two players are. Both are quality, well balanced, creative players with good all-round passing ability that would improve upon most midfields. It was in reference to his post that we should look for a CM with pace and penetration. And Modric was a prime example that you don't necessarily need to be overly fast/ full of drive as Vidal/ Pogba/ Gundogan (qualities that the poster was emphasising on) as long as you have other abilities.
Also Cesc > Modric over a decade. If Modric is superior right now one can't deduce than Cesc is a weaker player. Also I don't think Cesc's touch is as bad or inferior to Modric as you're claiming. Any little mistake is exaggerated when you're playing next to Xavi/ Iniesta. Infact Even now I'm not too sure Modric "is a much better midfielder" as you claim.
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I don't think so. And I think if he were up for grabs Arsenal would go for him. I don't want to waste my time thinking this could happen this summer.
No more so than saying Arsenal have the opportunity to buy him back for £25m.
No, not if the contract says Barca can't sell him to anyone else unless they offer him to us at £25m first and we decline. That's watertight (subject to player agreement obviously).
caught in a landslide?
Yeah but what I disagree with is you saying Modric is an example of how a midfielder doesn't need pace and penetration. He's not rapid but he's much, much quicker over 5-10 yards than Cesc is and he's capable of driving through teams with his runs that Cesc isn't capable of.
I think Cesc is probably better if you build your team to suit him, so that he can just go and do his thing, but I think level above is too extreme and I believe Modric can slot into any midfield without needing someone to do the hard work for him. Depends what you want in a player (obviously I prefer Modric), but I don't see how someone could say they're similar in style.
I doubt Arsenal would be interested, they have Ramsey and Wilshere and probably dont have the £35-£40m spare for another midfielder. They need a striker and a couple of full backs, that will take up this summers budget imo.
No escape from reality.
Wenger would sell his soul to get Cesc back.
Hmm I think you're right Modric may not fit the bill perfectly as an example. But still he can be used to show that you don't necessarily need to be a physical specimen/ maniacally rapid/ prototype box-to-box, hyper penetrative like Vidal/ Pogba. Maybe someone like Bastian would be more apt. He's not exactly ultra mobile or fast yet still gets the job done. Cesc is fairly close to his level I think. It's just that Barcelona aren't using him to his full capabilities.
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