Changes in Arabia

Status
Not open for further replies.
Uzz said:
And yet, you're a supporter of Shia Iran and all their proxies which makes me think that you do care (about religion). Not that there's anything wrong with that.

But yes, the Safavid quip was nothing more than a quip.
Click to expand...


Even if that were completely true, how'd you make that bizarre link? I don't agree with the demonisation of Iran and show some sympathy towards them and that automatically makes me Shia, regardless of my actual spiritual beliefs?

By that logic am I free to label you a Wahabi for being inclined towards the FSA then?
 
Uzz said:
Interesting stories coming out of SA. King Salman is looking to strengthen ties with Hamas as well as Qatar and Turkey, in a bid to 'face' Shia Islam, following the nuclear deal between Iran and the US.
Click to expand...

Unsurprising, the Saudi Royal family is a provocative cancer. Instead of sensing an opportunity to further economic ties with Iran as the Pakistanis and Iraqis have done, they've sought to start a regional sectarian civil war.

Hopefully their foolish excursion into Yemen followed by the world's inclination towards renewable energy marks the beginning of the end for them.
 
Uzz said:
Interesting stories coming out of SA. King Salman is looking to strengthen ties with Hamas as well as Qatar and Turkey, in a bid to 'face' Shia Islam, following the nuclear deal between Iran and the US.
Click to expand...

I guess this means rapprochement with the Muslim Brotherhood. I wonder how Sisi will feel about that.
 
Kaos said:
Unsurprising, the Saudi Royal family is a provocative cancer. Instead of sensing an opportunity to further economic ties with Iran as the Pakistanis and Iraqis have done, they've sought to start a regional sectarian civil war.

Hopefully their foolish excursion into Yemen followed by the world's inclination towards renewable energy marks the beginning of the end for them.
Click to expand...

I understand your dislike for the SA royal family, and I'm not their biggest fan either, but with my Sunni Muslim lenses on - this is a good move (and not because of sectarian reasons). There has been too much discord and disunity for too long within the Sunni Arab world. Now I don't think unifying the different political and national Sunni groups for the sole purpose of 'facing' Iran is a good move at all, and I wouldn't want this to result in a Cold War-esque situation between Sunni SA and Shia Iran at all. But I do think a more unified front can help establish some stabilisation in parts of the ME, and for me, peace in these lands is paramount. I think a unified front is the only viable way IS can be routed out, personally.

I hope we see King Salman establish himself as the spiritual successor to King Faisal.

Maybe, who knows, in decades gone by, this could be seen as the first step to a detente between SA and Iran. Imagine a unified Shia - Sunni presence in the ME. Now, that'll be something...

(Yes, I gather this post is extremely idealistic).

2cents said:
I guess this means rapprochement with the Muslim Brotherhood. I wonder how Sisi will feel about that.
Click to expand...

Yep - exactly, rapprochement with the MB as well. I think Fatah are holding back from reconciliation, though.
 
Uzz said:
I understand your dislike for the SA royal family, and I'm not their biggest fan either, but with my Sunni Muslim lenses on - this is a good move (and not because of sectarian reasons). There has been too much discord and disunity for too long within the Sunni Arab world. Now I don't think unifying the different political and national Sunni groups for the sole purpose of 'facing' Iran is a good move at all, and I wouldn't want this to result in a Cold War-esque situation between Sunni SA and Shia Iran at all. But I do think a more unified front can help establish some stabilisation in parts of the ME, and for me, peace in these lands is paramount. I think a unified front is the only viable way IS can be routed out, personally.

I hope we see King Salman establish himself as the spiritual successor to King Faisal.

Maybe, who knows, in decades gone by, this could be seen as the first step to a detente between SA and Iran. Imagine a unified Shia - Sunni presence in the ME. Now, that'll be something...

(Yes, I gather this post is extremely idealistic).
.
Click to expand...

All of that is meaningless if the whole pretense to this 'unity' is to antagonise Iran.

It also sets a very dangerous precedence if countries are uniting under ethnic or sectarian banners - and I include Iran in that bracket too. Middle Eastern countries should be uniting under the motive of further economic and diplomatic ties and empowering their respective peoples.

This is just the Saudis throwing their toys out the pram because for once the US had the audacity to deal with the Iranians diplomatically, instead of bombing them back to the middle ages as the Saudis would have probably preferred.

The Saudis don't need a spiritual successor to a wretched monarchy. They need democracy and to be rid of the despicable Wahabi elements that plagues their nation and the region on the whole.
 
Kaos said:
All of that is meaningless if the whole pretense to this 'unity' is to antagonise Iran.

It also sets a very dangerous precedence if countries are uniting under ethnic or sectarian banners - and I include Iran in that bracket too. Middle Eastern countries should be uniting under the motive of further economic and diplomatic ties and empowering their respective peoples.

This is just the Saudis throwing their toys out the pram because for once the US had the audacity to deal with the Iranians diplomatically, instead of bombing them back to the middle ages as the Saudis would have probably preferred.

The Saudis don't need a spiritual successor to a wretched monarchy. They need democracy and to be rid of the despicable Wahabi elements that plagues their nation and the region on the whole.
Click to expand...
Tbh, there isn't a real material effect of them uniting anyway. Nothing really changes. Hamas, and the MB are still anti- Iran (/Hezbollah) regardless if they are with SA or not. Like I said earlier, the only real feasible way to rout out groups such as IS is with a united front.

To the bolded - King Faisal did a lot of reforms and modernisation of SA as a whole. He removed a lot of the Wahabi ulema from positions of power and propelled SA's economic standing as well. By all aspects, he was a great king. He granted a great deal of autonomy to the Shia populations in SA, such as Hasa and Asir. A 'spiritual successor' to him wouldn't be a bad thing, at all.
 
Uzz said:
Tbh, there isn't a real material effect of them uniting anyway. Nothing really changes. Hamas, and the MB are still anti- Iran (/Hezbollah) regardless if they are with SA or not. Like I said earlier, the only real feasible way to rout out groups such as IS is with a united front.
Click to expand...

The issue here is that a Saudi-Turkey-Qatar front isn't the solution to the ISIS infestation, I'd argue its actually the problem.
Specifically, its the money being funelled from Saudi and Qatar that reaches ISIS accounts - the countries of those respective governments are doing nothing to curtail this. Then you have Turkey which is willingly allowing ISIS terrorists to cross in and out of the Turkish border as they please, while Turkish soldiers stand idle as they watch ISIS lay waste to hundreds of civilians just a few hundred metres away. The fact of the matter is, these countries could easily cripple ISIS if they bunker down on the aforementioned issues, but I suspect that they're allowing them to persist if it means weakening the Kurds and Shia in the region. Make no mistake, the grounds for this 'alliance' are purely sectarian.

Uzz said:
To the bolded - King Faisal did a lot of reforms and modernisation of SA as a whole. He removed a lot of the Wahabi ulema from positions of power and propelled SA's economic standing as well. By all aspects, he was a great king. He granted a great deal of autonomy to the Shia populations in SA, such as Hasa and Asir. A 'spiritual successor' to him wouldn't be a bad thing, at all.
Click to expand...

Faisal was probably the best of them, but I see little to suggest Salman as being of that ilk. For starters he's just backed the Israeli camp over the Iranian nuclear deal :wenger:.

I wish I shared your optimism, but the skeptic in me believes things will get much worse before they get better.
 
Last edited:
So in response to international condemnation regarding Saudi Arabia's decision to behead and crucify a 17 year old boy, their UN ambassador had this to say:

“The application of sharia law as far as human rights is concerned is the highest form of human rights,” he said, adding: “We believe that we are holding ourselves to the highest standards. If that doesn’t please someone here or there, that’s their problem not ours.”

Feckin hell :wenger:
 
Kaos said:
So in response to international condemnation regarding Saudi Arabia's decision to behead and crucify a 17 year old boy, their UN ambassador had this to say:

“The application of sharia law as far as human rights is concerned is the highest form of human rights,” he said, adding: “We believe that we are holding ourselves to the highest standards. If that doesn’t please someone here or there, that’s their problem not ours.”

Feckin hell :wenger:
Click to expand...

That's your "international community"
 
International Committee of The Red Cross: Yemen: Attacks on health care facilities must stop

yemen-shelling-hospital-al-thawra-taiz-1.jpg

"Al-Thawra hospital, one of the main health care facilities in Taiz which is providing treatment for about 50 injured people every day was reportedly shelled several times on Sunday. The shelling endangered the lives of patients and staff on site," said the deputy head of the ICRC delegation in Yemen, Kedir Awol Omar.

It is not the first time health facilities have been attacked. An MSF hospital in Haydan district of Saada was also attacked on the 26th of October. Close to a hundred similar incidents have been reported since March 2015.
Click to expand...

Any chance that we're gonna see some outrage about that?

David Cameron scrambles to rescue relations with Saudi Arabia after ambassador threatens to leave the UK in protest... but was too late

Well, may be at least...

Amnesty International: Yemen: Call for suspension of arms transfers to coalition and accountability for war crimes
Damning evidence of war crimes by the Saudi Arabia-led coalition, which is armed by states including the USA, highlights the urgent need for independent, effective investigation of violations in Yemen and for the suspension of transfers of certain arms, said Amnesty International in a new report published today.
Click to expand...

A week later...

U.S. okays $495 million sale of Sikorsky helicopters to Saudi Arabia

French PM Valls in Saudi Arabia to sign ‘significant’ armaments deal

A week later...

U.S. approves $11.25 billion warship sale to Saudi Arabia

...
 
It stinks. What is what is gutting is nothing will change. The narrative is already set.
 
Revan said:
But not surprising. If EU/US has economical interests with a state, they know well how to turn a blind eye.
Click to expand...

Yep, the sad state of affairs. If Assad was an economical and regional ally, he'd be lauded as a secular champion against terrorism.

The Saudi regime is nearing the beginning of its end IMO, with them being hopelessly out of their depth getting involved in Yemen and Syria, coupled to them possibly being bankrupt very soon, they've not long left. Eventually the West will abandon them and they'll be completed isolated.
 
Kaos said:
So in response to international condemnation regarding Saudi Arabia's decision to behead and crucify a 17 year old boy, their UN ambassador had this to say:

“The application of sharia law as far as human rights is concerned is the highest form of human rights,” he said, adding: “We believe that we are holding ourselves to the highest standards. If that doesn’t please someone here or there, that’s their problem not ours.”

Feckin hell :wenger:
Click to expand...
I just read that and was shocked and wondering what he could have done to get such a horrible punishment...he attended a protest. wtf...
 
Revan said:
But not surprising. If EU/US has economical interests with a state, they know well how to turn a blind eye.
Click to expand...

i think the US wants to crush the SA economy. i think it's in their best interest to destabilize the economy and marginalize them politically.
 
How did we go from prehistoric times to these times where global superpowers strategically choose who to kill and who to support under the cover of democracy. :wenger::confused:
 
mu77 said:
i think the US wants to crush the SA economy. i think it's in their best interest to destabilize the economy and marginalize them politically.
Click to expand...
By selling them guns which for the first time ever makes possible for Saudi Arabia to be able to efficiently attack and defend Iran, and probbaly even Israel?

I haven't seen anything yet to suggest that US is trying to crush SA economy. The oil companies are too strong to allow that.

Bring fusion I say, and then those rich arseholes would become poor irrelevant arseholes. Until then, they will be rich terrorist arseholes.
 
Attila said:
I just read that and was shocked and wondering what he could have done to get such a horrible punishment...he attended a protest. wtf...
Click to expand...

Saudi Arabia. A slightly milder version of what an IS-style caliphate would look like, and yet its championed as a western ally while the secular regimes remain antagonised.
 
Kaos said:
Saudi Arabia. A slightly milder version of what an IS-style caliphate would look like, and yet its championed as a western ally while the secular regimes remain antagonised.
Click to expand...

Its not even remotely in the same neighborhood of what an IS caliphate would look like.
 
Raoul said:
Its not even remotely in the same neighborhood of what an IS caliphate would look like.
Click to expand...

Beheadings and cutting off peoples hands as punishments, discriminating against religious minorities, oppression of women, and championing the most vile form of Islam or any religious doctrine for that matter. They're not quite ISIS levels of putrid, but they're the closest nation to it.
 
Revan said:
By selling them guns which for the first time ever makes possible for Saudi Arabia to be able to efficiently attack and defend Iran, and probbaly even Israel?

I haven't seen anything yet to suggest that US is trying to crush SA economy. The oil companies are too strong to allow that.

Bring fusion I say, and then those rich arseholes would become poor irrelevant arseholes. Until then, they will be rich terrorist arseholes.
Click to expand...

been doing it since 1990 really. nothing would go down as well as the apple cart being upset.
 
Kaos said:
Beheadings and cutting off peoples hands as punishments, discriminating against religious minorities, oppression of women, and championing the most vile form of Islam or any religious doctrine for that matter. They're not quite ISIS levels of putrid, but they're the closest nation to it.
Click to expand...

How about an expansionist caliphate of messianic fanatics who are taking down airliners, bombing other Arab and western countries. They are light years apart.
 
Raoul said:
How about an expansionist caliphate of messianic fanatics who are taking down airliners, bombing other Arab and western countries. They are light years apart.
Click to expand...

Sounds like the US minus the caliphate aspect :p

But in all seriousness, yes, they're not quite their level but I'd wager Saudi Arabia would be the closest state model IS would base their caliphate on.
 
On the plus side, they're failing miserably in Yemen and are losing scores of soldiers. Just goes to show that having other Arab states and the US fight your battles for decades means you won't be ready for a military occupation of your own.
 
Mentioning the bleeding obvious, but at least we have Western officials now saying something:

Saudi Arabia is playing an increasingly destabilising role in the Middle East, German intelligence warns
'The cautious diplomatic stance of the older leading members of the royal family is being replaced by an impulsive policy of intervention

German intelligence has warned that Saudi Arabia is playing an increasingly destabilising role in the Middle East.

The country's foreign intelligence agency, known as the BND, released a memo to select journalists warning of the negative effects the game of thrones being played within Saudi Arabia's royal family could cause.

"The cautious diplomatic stance of the older leading members of the royal family is being replaced by an impulsive policy of intervention," said the memo, seen by the New York TImes.

The one and a half page memo focuses on the role of Prince Mohammad bin Salman, the 30-year-old son of King Salman who was recently appointed deputy crown prince and defence minister.

“The concentration of economic and foreign policy power on Mohammed bin Salman contains the latent danger that, in an attempt to establish himself in the royal succession while his father is still alive, he could overreach with expensive measures or reforms that would unsettle other members of the royal family and the population," the memo observes.

"That could overstrain the relations to friendly and above all to allied states in the region.”

Germany's Foreign Ministry in Berlin has distanced itself from the memo, saying the German Embassy in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, had issued a statement to say "the BND statement reported by media is not the position of the federal government."

In addition to his role as deputy crown prince and defence minister, Prince Salman also oversees the country's top economic council and Saudi oil policy.
 
Kaos said:
Mentioning the bleeding obvious, but at least we have Western officials now saying something:

Saudi Arabia is playing an increasingly destabilising role in the Middle East, German intelligence warns
'The cautious diplomatic stance of the older leading members of the royal family is being replaced by an impulsive policy of intervention

German intelligence has warned that Saudi Arabia is playing an increasingly destabilising role in the Middle East.

The country's foreign intelligence agency, known as the BND, released a memo to select journalists warning of the negative effects the game of thrones being played within Saudi Arabia's royal family could cause.

"The cautious diplomatic stance of the older leading members of the royal family is being replaced by an impulsive policy of intervention," said the memo, seen by the New York TImes.

The one and a half page memo focuses on the role of Prince Mohammad bin Salman, the 30-year-old son of King Salman who was recently appointed deputy crown prince and defence minister.

“The concentration of economic and foreign policy power on Mohammed bin Salman contains the latent danger that, in an attempt to establish himself in the royal succession while his father is still alive, he could overreach with expensive measures or reforms that would unsettle other members of the royal family and the population," the memo observes.

"That could overstrain the relations to friendly and above all to allied states in the region.”

Germany's Foreign Ministry in Berlin has distanced itself from the memo, saying the German Embassy in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, had issued a statement to say "the BND statement reported by media is not the position of the federal government."

In addition to his role as deputy crown prince and defence minister, Prince Salman also oversees the country's top economic council and Saudi oil policy.
Click to expand...

It's funny because - like the article says - the BND was immidiately harshly criticized from the government and the foreign office for the report.:lol:
Germanys (and most countries of the western world) stance towards SA is just downright pathetic.
 
Kasper said:
It's funny because - like the article says - the BND was immidiately harshly criticized from the government and the foreign office for the report.:lol:
Germanys (and most countries of the western world) stance towards SA is just downright pathetic.
Click to expand...

Its utterly baffling.

This is the country that exports the vile Wahabi form of Islam, embraced by the likes of ISIS and Al Qaeda, and yet we give them a free pass and side with them against secular nations in the Middle East.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.