Champions League Round of 16 fixtures
- Thread starter Sojiro
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They are a better team now and United are also a better team, agreed. But what is your point
We can see from the success of its teams that its clearly a notch above Serie A at the moment.Well, yeah much better than Bundesliga. Hell, Diouf is a contender for POTY there.
That isn't so funny, I tend to agree. They are obviously still a sensational team but I don't feel they are as good as 2 seasons ago.
Yeah, the Serie A team disgraced itself today.
Scott Parker won POTY here. Your point?
You can say Madrid is getting weaker and I might agree with that but Barca is still THE best team in Europe and they are not weaker than they were two years ago. They switch their formation almost every year and adapt to a different style of play and somehow make it work.
But I'm not saying that Bayern aren't that good or that they're being 'extremely' overrated or anything like that. I just wouldn't go taking their record in the Bundesliga as a huge reflection on their ability.
Defensively they are much weaker than previous seasons.
The decline of Alves, along with Pique's indifferent club form hasn't helped while replacing Abidal with Alba improved them going forward but they lack the balance at the back that Abidal provided.
The decline of Alves, along with Pique's indifferent club form hasn't helped while replacing Abidal with Alba improved them going forward but they lack the balance at the back that Abidal provided.
2 points.
a) I'm not sure about that, there are some good teams around. If Milan knock them out we can't still be calling the best team in Europe.
b) They are not as good as 2 years ago, they have become WAY too reliant on the BPITW for all their goals and they are certainly weaker at the back.
Scott Parker is a decent player and didn't deserve the POTY that year, but what's that got to do with lack of quality strikers in Bundesliga ?
Ok, Name 20 of them and compare their PL counterparts. Let's see the difference.
Brilliant performance from Milan. Solid at the back, sussed Barcelona out early on and stuck to it all game whilst sucker punching them twice.
Given Barca's inability to keep clean sheets recently I think Milan will score in Nou Camp and go through.
Given Barca's inability to keep clean sheets recently I think Milan will score in Nou Camp and go through.
Then like I said, take the fact that they were the best team in Europe last season as a reflection and then remember that they have improved at CB, CM and CF since then.
Erm, how much Bundesliga do you watch compared to PL?
(just because an average footballer might be a POTY candidate is not an accurate reflection of a league's quality, that's why the Scott Parker mention)
There are a bunch of knee jerkers in this thread right now.
One CL campaign can't be super imposed to draw such definite conclusions. It's beyond stupid.
Top 2 teams doing well in CL one season, means not much in terms of improving the rest of the teams.
One CL campaign can't be super imposed to draw such definite conclusions. It's beyond stupid.
Top 2 teams doing well in CL one season, means not much in terms of improving the rest of the teams.
Sorry, I honestly have no idea what you are getting at here? What are people knee-jerking about?
Less than PL but plenty of it.
PSG might be doing well in the CL this year, and next year Lyon might reach the quarter finals too or Bordeaux etc.. Would that in the French league quality of Ajaccio has improved ?
But just because if they get knocked out this year doesnt mean they are weak. The best lose sometimes. Thats why its called an upset and upsets happens in the world of sports. They can still win games if Messi doesnt score. Everyone has an off night. And I agree with your point in that there are some good teams around like Bayern, Dortmund, Juventus and PSG who have all improved over the last couple of years but I still feel Barca are a step ahead of all those teams.
We would do Bayern over two legs
Less than PL but plenty of it.
PSG might be doing well in the CL this year, and next year Lyon might reach the quarter finals too or Bordeaux etc.. Would that in the French league quality of Ajaccio has improved ?
You're a bit mad aren't ya?
Germany actually have 3 teams doing well in the CL, not 2 as you suggested, for someone who watches "plenty of it", you'd have thought you'd know that.
And yes, if 3 teams from a league do well in the CL, it's good proof that the LEAGUE has improved. Who on Earth said it was proof that all of the teams have improved
Well yes Abidal anchored the defence when Alves operated as an auxillary right-winger. And being a competent centre-half he performed that role well. Alba offers more incisiveness and inventiveness going forward but lacks the same defensive instinct. Question of balance really and possessing a pair of complementary full-backs.
Who said they were weak? quotes?
So you'd still call Barca the best in Europe if say, Bayern go and win the thing this year after pretty much proving last year that they were also the best team?... sounds strange.
You know, there's more to the game than strikers. Especially small teams are much stronger when playing as a cohesive unit in a smart tactical setup. You're massively overrating individual class upfront. Yeah, other leagues have more poster boy strikers, great job. Who cares. Freiburg is a way better team now without Cisse, for example.
Oh and:
That has to be up there for the dumbest comment I've read on here about Bayern. Badstuber was played out of position as left back and totally humiliated by Valencia while Demichelis was never a great defender. Comparing Bayern 2010 to Bayern now is nonsense. Totally different teams with a different manager and different tactics.
Absolutely agree with this. Very disciplined performance from Milan, I'm not sure Barca had a shot worthy of the name. That's testament to the way Milan played. Sometimes you have to accept that the other team has better players than you and you have to set your stall out to stop them playing whilst still retaining an attacking threat. Milan did that brilliantly and got a couple of goals. And as you say, another Milan goal at the Camp Nou and that's the end of that.
Contrast to the Arsenal performance against Bayern last night. Did Wenger in his tactics and set up acknowledge that man for man, Bayern were the better team? Did he even attempt to frustrate them by playing defensively with the idea of staying in the tie and nicking a goal? No, of course not. Wenger can't acknowledge that his current team and squad are second best to anyone, even one of the best teams in Europe. So he met them toe to toe and got stuffed. Stupid. Milan weren't stupid, they acknowledged Barca's quality and dealt with it. And as a result, they've got a great chance of going through.
They'd probably be better off shifting to a permanent back three that Pep seemed to be phasing them to, maybe drop Busquets in as a sweeper and allow Alves and Alba to drive forward permanently.
They were?
You cant call a team best in Europe when they did not even win their own league last year. But if they win the UCL this season, then maybe you can consider Bayern to be the best team around.
You're a bit mad aren't ya?
Germany actually have 3 teams doing well in the CL, not 2 as you suggested, for someone who watches "plenty of it", you'd have thought you'd know that.
And yes, if 3 teams from a league do well in the CL, it's good proof that the LEAGUE has improved. Who on Earth said it was proof that all of the teams have improved
Well last time i checked Bundesliga consisted of 18 teams. And that Bayerns defensive record of 7 goals conceded was against all 17 other teams who have some very poor players playing for them. Thanks for clarifying you were talking about some private 2/3 team league that you imagined.
And even ignoring the fact that German teams have been relatively lucky with the draw of the knockout face, it's just one fecking season. Yes Bayern and Dortmund are good, but if they go through and no la liga team does say doesn't mean that the German league as a whole entity has become exponentially stronger in terms of competitiveness of each game. That's convoluted logic.
Yeah no question for me. Everyone tried saying Real were number 2 behind Barca but Real smashed their league leaving Barca in their wake and Bayern were a better team when those two played and deservedly went through. And there is no question that they were also the best team in the CL final.
Are we ignoring the group of death that Dortmund featured in then? That suit your argument better does it?
I agree that there are some shit players playing in the bottom half of the German league, it's not like England where we have the might of Pilkington, Snodgrass, Hoolahan, Titus Bramble, David Vaughan and co.
Bayern were in fact the best team in Europe last season?
ha ha, you fecker. I saw it
You posted in reply to "who was the best team in Europe last season"
ha ha, Chelsea then?
Nice deletion attempt.
Well, strikers score goals and it was just a example. It's not like other areas are overflowing with quality either tbh.
And also, that's a pretty lame argument tbh. Might as well use it for the French league too as PSG are looking strong this year.
ha ha, you fecker. I saw it
You posted in reply to "who was the best team in Europe last season"
ha ha, Chelsea then?
Nice deletion attempt.
I just didn't want to get into a big debate, because I'm really not in the mood, so I deleted it.
Chelsea did win it, so no matter what way you look at it, they were the best team in Europe. United were second best in 99, would you say that they didn't deserve it, or do you just look at things on paper?
It's the result that matters. Bayern didn't beat Chelsea on the night and got beat on penos because of it.
I'm amazed there's a debate going on here.
Bayern are a superb football team, the German league has certainly improved. There's no question about these 2 things.
And yet I fall into the trap again, I'm a complete Ihni binni dimi diniwiny anitaime. Note to self: make point, move on, don't get caught up in bizarre debates.
Yep, they did well. But then so did Shakthar against Chelsea and Juve.. PSG topped their group too. It's 1 season and these are only 1/2 teams.
Btw, not getting into individual quality of each player but their is dross in each league, but it's about 1) amount of dross 2) quality to combine with it.
I just didn't want to get into a big debate, because I'm really not in the mood, so I deleted it.
Chelsea did win it, so no matter what way you look at it, they were the best team in Europe. United were second best in 99, would you say that they didn't deserve it, or do you just look at things on paper?
It's the result that matters. Bayern didn't beat Chelsea on the night and got knocked out because if it.
I think it's totally fair for you to call the 5th best team in England, the best in Europe, if you wanna just go off the CL then who am I to argue.
Personally I don't just take the CL as proof, I mean that'd mean Liverpool were the best team in Europe not so long ago. I take performances in the CL and at home as reference. IMO Bayern were easily best in those 2 areas last season.
I called United the best in 99 because we were the best team in England too and had been brilliant all the way through to the final and lost our entire central midfield for the final game in which we still managed to turn around.