I think Liverpool have the team and tactics to give Barcelona problems.
Champions League Quarter Finals (3rd - 11th April)
- Thread starter Samid
- Start date
This is our year lads. We have a much worse squad than 12/13 with both our best players being way too old now but the semis will be Bayern, Liverpool, RM and Barca with Liverpool being this year's BVB. We will smash Barca in the semis and play Klopp in the final, with old fox Heynckes showing Klopp and the world he is still the king of the CL by winning it and retiring with a triple, ultimately cementing his place as Bayern's greatest coach ever!
One of those matches when you want both sides to lose, but I suppose the result was actually better than a 1-0 or 2-0 because I can't see Athletic scoring four goals in the second leg and I can't really see The Scousers beating RM or BM or Barca over two legs.
Noticeable last night was that The Scousers ran out of puff in the second half and let Athletic back into the match for the last 30 minutes - but that's the way to beat them, and last night they got the result because they managed to get the three goals at the same time as they were were keeping Athletic's MF out of the match.
Problem is that I can't see us putting as much effort / pressure on to Athletic's MF on Saturday because it just isn't our style and we don't have the MFers to chase and hurry Silva and De Bruyne in the same way that The Scousers did for an hour last night.
Noticeable last night was that The Scousers ran out of puff in the second half and let Athletic back into the match for the last 30 minutes - but that's the way to beat them, and last night they got the result because they managed to get the three goals at the same time as they were were keeping Athletic's MF out of the match.
Problem is that I can't see us putting as much effort / pressure on to Athletic's MF on Saturday because it just isn't our style and we don't have the MFers to chase and hurry Silva and De Bruyne in the same way that The Scousers did for an hour last night.
Who are Athletic?
Abu Dhabi Athletic....Never been able to bring myself to use their real name since they won the Lottery.
Right
ok, got me confused for a second.Maybe over a single game but I can’t see us beating Madrid or Barcelona over two legs.
If we do make it to the semi’s then I’d far rather Bayern over the other two as I honestly think we can beat them over 2 legs. I know it was only pre season but we were way better than them during that game and they couldn’t cope with our counter pressing. Heynckes may have them a lot better drilled but I still think the same underlying issues will apply.
These have to be the weirdest QF in living memory
4 games, 4 ties that look over, all of them with weird results
Sevilla-Bayern: the game i only less about sl i might be wrong. Bayern scored 2 goals off deflections, and from everthing i've read and heard they didn't deserve it
Juventus-Real Madrid: juve shat themselves. We have Cristiano, whom scientists have recently discovered to be currently the hottest object in the Milky Way. Most of the time that same game played in a league or the group stage would see juventus win comfortably. It ended 3-0 for us. Football
Liverpool-City: did anybody notice liverpool going 2-0 up? How did they do it? They weren't even doing much of anything. Good pressing, good defending, allright, but they barely got out of their half. First goal was a gift by Sane with quite a bit of luck involved afterwards(from the linesman, to two bounces and a final deflection). Second was a 30 yards screamer from alex oxlade-chamberlain. Inbetween was a criminal mistake by sane wasting a 3on2 counterattack. Then they had a great 25 minutes while city went into meltdown and made it 3. Then in the second half they stopped playing, and while they did defend well, city had a goal ruled offside maybe wrongly, and should have probably had a penalty after that? Another "1 in 10" game, much like juventus-real madrid. Again. Football
Barcelona-Roma: to quote Di Francesco "we went down 3-1 without even realizing it". Basically, take what i said about the first 3 games, multiply it by 10, and you get this the weirdest 4-1 ever seen. 2 own goals. 2 goals gifted by atrocious mistakes by the defenders. 2 penalties denied. Ter Stegen is the best goalkeeper in the world, and currently the second hottest object in the Milky Way. And even with all of that....it's still inexplicable how this ended 4-1 for barcelona
4 games, 4 ties that look over, all of them with weird results
Sevilla-Bayern: the game i only less about sl i might be wrong. Bayern scored 2 goals off deflections, and from everthing i've read and heard they didn't deserve it
Juventus-Real Madrid: juve shat themselves. We have Cristiano, whom scientists have recently discovered to be currently the hottest object in the Milky Way. Most of the time that same game played in a league or the group stage would see juventus win comfortably. It ended 3-0 for us. Football
Liverpool-City: did anybody notice liverpool going 2-0 up? How did they do it? They weren't even doing much of anything. Good pressing, good defending, allright, but they barely got out of their half. First goal was a gift by Sane with quite a bit of luck involved afterwards(from the linesman, to two bounces and a final deflection). Second was a 30 yards screamer from alex oxlade-chamberlain. Inbetween was a criminal mistake by sane wasting a 3on2 counterattack. Then they had a great 25 minutes while city went into meltdown and made it 3. Then in the second half they stopped playing, and while they did defend well, city had a goal ruled offside maybe wrongly, and should have probably had a penalty after that? Another "1 in 10" game, much like juventus-real madrid. Again. Football
Barcelona-Roma: to quote Di Francesco "we went down 3-1 without even realizing it". Basically, take what i said about the first 3 games, multiply it by 10, and you get this the weirdest 4-1 ever seen. 2 own goals. 2 goals gifted by atrocious mistakes by the defenders. 2 penalties denied. Ter Stegen is the best goalkeeper in the world, and currently the second hottest object in the Milky Way. And even with all of that....it's still inexplicable how this ended 4-1 for barcelona
These have to be the weirdest QF in living memory
4 games, 4 ties that look over, all of them with weird results
Sevilla-Bayern: the game i only less about sl i might be wrong. Bayern scored 2 goals off deflections, and from everthing i've read and heard they didn't deserve it
Juventus-Real Madrid: juve shat themselves. We have Cristiano, whom scientists have recently discovered to be currently the hottest object in the Milky Way. Most of the time that same game played in a league or the group stage would see juventus win comfortably. It ended 3-0 for us. Football
Liverpool-City: did anybody notice liverpool going 2-0 up? How did they do it? They weren't even doing much of anything. Good pressing, good defending, allright, but they barely got out of their half. First goal was a gift by Sane with quite a bit of luck involved afterwards(from the linesman, to two bounces and a final deflection). Second was a 30 yards screamer from alex oxlade-chamberlain. Inbetween was a criminal mistake by sane wasting a 3on2 counterattack. Then they had a great 25 minutes while city went into meltdown and made it 3. Then in the second half they stopped playing, and while they did defend well, city had a goal ruled offside maybe wrongly, and should have probably had a penalty after that? Another "1 in 10" game, much like juventus-real madrid. Again. Football
Barcelona-Roma: to quote Di Francesco "we went down 3-1 without even realizing it". Basically, take what i said about the first 3 games, multiply it by 10, and you get this the weirdest 4-1 ever seen. 2 own goals. 2 goals gifted by atrocious mistakes by the defenders. 2 penalties denied. Ter Stegen is the best goalkeeper in the world, and currently the second hottest object in the Milky Way. And even with all of that....it's still inexplicable how this ended 4-1 for barcelona
Oh come on lol there weren't two penalties denied
Can't see a way back for City now. They had a golden chance when it was 1-0 and Sane put it wide when he should have worked Karius work as a minimum. A few minutes later it's 2-0, Liverpool smell blood and score again.
City were better in the second half but they will regret not getting an away goal. At 3-1 they know that 2-0 at home will take them through, which is a perfectly feasible scoreline. But I think Liverpool will score at their place and 5 goals is a big ask under that kind of pressure. I think City need to repeat what Liverpool did, come out all guns blazing and hope they can score a couple early but like I say I think Pool will score in any case and kill off the tie.
City were better in the second half but they will regret not getting an away goal. At 3-1 they know that 2-0 at home will take them through, which is a perfectly feasible scoreline. But I think Liverpool will score at their place and 5 goals is a big ask under that kind of pressure. I think City need to repeat what Liverpool did, come out all guns blazing and hope they can score a couple early but like I say I think Pool will score in any case and kill off the tie.
I did....Very appropriate....
It does not only seem this way. He has by far the best stats of all managers against Pep. Out of 13 matches including yesterday, Klopp won 7 (6, if you exclude one win by penalty shootout).
These have to be the weirdest QF in living memory
4 games, 4 ties that look over, all of them with weird results
Sevilla-Bayern: the game i only less about sl i might be wrong. Bayern scored 2 goals off deflections, and from everthing i've read and heard they didn't deserve it
Juventus-Real Madrid: juve shat themselves. We have Cristiano, whom scientists have recently discovered to be currently the hottest object in the Milky Way. Most of the time that same game played in a league or the group stage would see juventus win comfortably. It ended 3-0 for us. Football
Liverpool-City: did anybody notice liverpool going 2-0 up? How did they do it? They weren't even doing much of anything. Good pressing, good defending, allright, but they barely got out of their half. First goal was a gift by Sane with quite a bit of luck involved afterwards(from the linesman, to two bounces and a final deflection). Second was a 30 yards screamer from alex oxlade-chamberlain. Inbetween was a criminal mistake by sane wasting a 3on2 counterattack. Then they had a great 25 minutes while city went into meltdown and made it 3. Then in the second half they stopped playing, and while they did defend well, city had a goal ruled offside maybe wrongly, and should have probably had a penalty after that? Another "1 in 10" game, much like juventus-real madrid. Again. Football
Barcelona-Roma: to quote Di Francesco "we went down 3-1 without even realizing it". Basically, take what i said about the first 3 games, multiply it by 10, and you get this the weirdest 4-1 ever seen. 2 own goals. 2 goals gifted by atrocious mistakes by the defenders. 2 penalties denied. Ter Stegen is the best goalkeeper in the world, and currently the second hottest object in the Milky Way. And even with all of that....it's still inexplicable how this ended 4-1 for barcelona
Good summary. People underestimate the luck factor and tend to interpret the results as logical outcomes.
The bookies still only have City at 5/1 to qualify. Given our propensity to collapse defensively when the going gets tough, I'd say those odds are about right.
This tie is far from over.
This tie is far from over.
If Salah misses the game, City will have a decent chance. Because your counter attack will be half as dangerous and they will throw the kitchen at your defence.
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Madrid winning against Juventus, Bayern winning against Sevilla, Barca winning against Roma is not luck, it's the logical outcome as those teams dominate usually and end up reaching semi finals for CL more often than not.
You are going on and on about Liverpool luck, I didn't watch full game so I won't be commenting on it.
May as well add the fact, Pep's teams were/are always stronger makes it even more impressive.
It's logical that they won but the big results flattered Madrid and Barca, imo. When it was still 1:0 Madrid, Juve were good and had chances to go level. About the Liverpool game everything is said already. They were the better, quicker and hungrier team and deserved the win but some referee calls influenced the final outcome.
Juventus not scoring is not luck, it's also attribute. Converting chances. If what you said is all luck, then football is all about luck.
Well, Juve were great at finishing against Spurs, especially in the second leg. It wasn't a concidence that they beat Barca 3:0 last season.
Luck plays some role in football and even the best teams need a bit of luck to win the CL. Barca 09, for instance, had luck vs Chelsea at SB even though they were a superb team. Barca had luck vs Chelsea this season too because the latter hit the post 4 times. They are better than Chelsea but 3:0 at Camp Nou was flattering. It wasn't only about bad finishing. Chelsea had a lot of luck when they won it in 2012. Etc. Luck is a factor, albeit not a too big factor. The quality of the team is the most important thing, of course.
Barca also had lot of decisions go against them in first and second leg, for some reasons they are ignored. Yeah luck plays some part, sometimes. Not always.
I don't see anything lucky in the QFs except Liverpool game which I haven't watched completely.
All the created chances are not converted, if so we would be seeing cricket like scores in football. So not sure how much you can put that to luck when statistically and historically the scorelines are sort of same.
QF has been a major disappointment tbh. Expected some cracking ties but got only one sided domination. Has there been a QF second leg as irrelevant as this year?
Quite right. League game is merely a formality, they could afford to draw all remaining games if they like. Pep will make all change this weekend to give it a push, if fail, then perhaps start planning for summer vacation.
Recall QF was generally more exciting but SF was very surgical, so perhaps top teams are applying the changes early on. The norm was to sit back on away game (if the 1st one) then go for it on home leg, which was what Mourinho did. Trend in the past few years have switched to taking on your opponent on away leg and pushed for away goals.
But neither of them dominated. In fact, neither of them were even the best team on the pitch on the night. Yet not only did they win, but did so by a score that pretty much makes the second leg a formality. Both results went massively against the run of play
These have to be the weirdest QF in living memory
4 games, 4 ties that look over, all of them with weird results
Sevilla-Bayern: the game i only less about sl i might be wrong. Bayern scored 2 goals off deflections, and from everthing i've read and heard they didn't deserve it
Juventus-Real Madrid: juve shat themselves. We have Cristiano, whom scientists have recently discovered to be currently the hottest object in the Milky Way. Most of the time that same game played in a league or the group stage would see juventus win comfortably. It ended 3-0 for us. Football
Liverpool-City: did anybody notice liverpool going 2-0 up? How did they do it? They weren't even doing much of anything. Good pressing, good defending, allright, but they barely got out of their half. First goal was a gift by Sane with quite a bit of luck involved afterwards(from the linesman, to two bounces and a final deflection). Second was a 30 yards screamer from alex oxlade-chamberlain. Inbetween was a criminal mistake by sane wasting a 3on2 counterattack. Then they had a great 25 minutes while city went into meltdown and made it 3. Then in the second half they stopped playing, and while they did defend well, city had a goal ruled offside maybe wrongly, and should have probably had a penalty after that? Another "1 in 10" game, much like juventus-real madrid. Again. Football
Barcelona-Roma: to quote Di Francesco "we went down 3-1 without even realizing it". Basically, take what i said about the first 3 games, multiply it by 10, and you get this the weirdest 4-1 ever seen. 2 own goals. 2 goals gifted by atrocious mistakes by the defenders. 2 penalties denied. Ter Stegen is the best goalkeeper in the world, and currently the second hottest object in the Milky Way. And even with all of that....it's still inexplicable how this ended 4-1 for barcelona
In Spain maybe. They came out with high intensity and deserved the lead, but after Bayern equalised they completely stopped playing. If Vidal was injured early on but kept playing, the would have gotten totally dominated. It's also a bit silly to claim that it was in any way luck that got Barcelona through, it maybe looked a bit weird, but it certainly was a deserved outcome.
Semedo on Dzeko which wasn't called, and Umtiti on Florenzi which was called for a free kick but was actually a penalty.Oh come on lol there weren't two penalties denied
Neither was particularly scandalous, but it is what it is. Barcelona were very lucky not have a penalty against them
How? Did you watch the game? Literally all of Barcelona's goals were jammy with mistakes and bounces going their way. Roma should have had a penalty with 0-0. Then they should have had a penalty with 1-0. Barcelona probably deserved to win, but not by that score. A 2-1 or 3-2 would have reflected the game.
Lets agree to disagree. I don't think Juventus deserved anything from the game and Madrid even hit the bar once.
We crossed the half 4 times in 65 minutes. Go look at any clip of extended highlights and count the number of chances they missed. Keylor's save on Higuain and Chiellini's free header were the two biggest chances either team had to score until Dybala's red card. Us being 2-0 up at that point, based on the run of play, was every bit as ridiculous as juventus winning 2-1 in wembley
There was also Perotti missing an absolute sitter straight after the start of the 2nd half.
Pepe had no answer for James Milner. He's to assists what Ronaldo is to goals this season in the CL, in a class of his own.
Most assists
8= Wayne Rooney (Man. United), 765mins, 2013/14
8= Neymar (Barcelona), 797mins, 2016/17
8= James Milner (Liverpool), 452mins, 2017/18
7= Ryan Giggs (Man. United), 605mins, 2006/07
7= Zlatan Ibrahimović (Paris Saint-Germain), 793mins, 2012/13
7= Xavi Hernández (Barcelona), 971mins, 2008/09
One more and it´s a single season Champions League record!
Most assists
8= Wayne Rooney (Man. United), 765mins, 2013/14
8= Neymar (Barcelona), 797mins, 2016/17
8= James Milner (Liverpool), 452mins, 2017/18
7= Ryan Giggs (Man. United), 605mins, 2006/07
7= Zlatan Ibrahimović (Paris Saint-Germain), 793mins, 2012/13
7= Xavi Hernández (Barcelona), 971mins, 2008/09
One more and it´s a single season Champions League record!
Was it the luck that stopped the ball crossing the line? Madrid coped with the attack and scored on the counter twice. That's football. Like I said before, not every half chance gets converted, if so we will be seeing more games in double figures. IIRC Higuain's one was very good chance and keeper made fantastic save. Again not sure how you can blame luck for fantastic goal keeping.
If that's luck, then ManUtd are always lucky as De Gea makes lot of fantastic saves.
You can't just say team creating half chances as more deserving team or some luck played part in it.
Also re Juventus game, Juventus had clear penalty denied in the second leg and IIRC they had one denied in first leg too.
Now before anyone asks, I am not going to blame UEFA nor a small minority of Liverpool supporters who attacked the City team bus for our defeat. However I do see 2 reasons why we lost that game, the first of which is Pep putting players in the wrong position (which partly explains why we lost the midfield battle) such as putting KDB as a RW (instead of B.Silva if we were not going to start Sterling).
The bigger problem however is one that I have repeatingly banged on about both on this forum and on Bluemoon (and got banned because of it) all thoughout this season and even before the match. It is we simply lack the strength in depth needed to dominate a hard (by major European Football League standards), win the 2 domestic cups frequently and win the Champions League (on a regular basis) against teams which are more than a match for you. Especially if you play under Pep's system and all the fatigue/energy level issues you end up suffering from as the season drags on (1) every time.
This is the reason why D.Silva, KDB and Fernandinho were shadows of themsevles compared to their usual form (2), that is why Sane, Sterling and Jesus barely attacked the Liverpool defence, that is why Ederson was below par and that is why even Kompany was poor when it came to the defence side of things (not good when you are facing a front 3 like Liverpool's). Just as it was the same reason why we lost to Liverpool the last time round at Anfield, why we lost to Wigan in the FA Cup, why we lost to Basel in the Last 16 of the CL, why we struggled to reach the final of the League Cup and why we have been in poor form for too many games across the second half of the season and the main reason why I feel we will not win the Champions League this season, even if we get past Liverpool in the 2nd round. (3)
Likewise there are some which have criticised Pep for not being pragmatic enough to change his tatics in this match (an issue which also arose in various SF's under Barcelona and Bayern). Now while I understand those critcisms, the bigger issue for me is that if Pep was going to stick by his principles (despite it backfiring in previous Knockout Rounds) then why did not do enough to make sure there was enough strength in depth to deal with tough siutations like this rather than put a whole team of fatigued players (and the same being said with the bench) (4) against a highly motivated (5) team such as Liverpool last night.
(1) Still better than the Tony Pulis way of playing football, which for the record can only go so far as this season as shown. Likewise for anyone who wants to refer to our transfer spending in recent years, one must be reminded that in the age of 9 figure transfer fees, City spending £400+ million does not get you as much compared to what the likes of Chelsea spent in the Mid-2000s (and even they failed to get a CL out of that). So despite the large amounts that we have spent, we are still a long way from both dominating the domestic game and winning the CL on a regular basis as games like these have shown.
(2) I mean for FFS they lost the midfield battle to a midfield 3 of Ox, Henderson and Millner. That says it all...
(3) Which in itself requires the best performance of the season in the 2nd leg, even if it means putting out the youths against Tottenham and hope they perform against the odds.
(4) I would especially say that City have paid the price in their failure to get Sanchez, who would have been a very useful option in siutations such as this.
(5) Despite their shortfalls.
The bigger problem however is one that I have repeatingly banged on about both on this forum and on Bluemoon (and got banned because of it) all thoughout this season and even before the match. It is we simply lack the strength in depth needed to dominate a hard (by major European Football League standards), win the 2 domestic cups frequently and win the Champions League (on a regular basis) against teams which are more than a match for you. Especially if you play under Pep's system and all the fatigue/energy level issues you end up suffering from as the season drags on (1) every time.
This is the reason why D.Silva, KDB and Fernandinho were shadows of themsevles compared to their usual form (2), that is why Sane, Sterling and Jesus barely attacked the Liverpool defence, that is why Ederson was below par and that is why even Kompany was poor when it came to the defence side of things (not good when you are facing a front 3 like Liverpool's). Just as it was the same reason why we lost to Liverpool the last time round at Anfield, why we lost to Wigan in the FA Cup, why we lost to Basel in the Last 16 of the CL, why we struggled to reach the final of the League Cup and why we have been in poor form for too many games across the second half of the season and the main reason why I feel we will not win the Champions League this season, even if we get past Liverpool in the 2nd round. (3)
Likewise there are some which have criticised Pep for not being pragmatic enough to change his tatics in this match (an issue which also arose in various SF's under Barcelona and Bayern). Now while I understand those critcisms, the bigger issue for me is that if Pep was going to stick by his principles (despite it backfiring in previous Knockout Rounds) then why did not do enough to make sure there was enough strength in depth to deal with tough siutations like this rather than put a whole team of fatigued players (and the same being said with the bench) (4) against a highly motivated (5) team such as Liverpool last night.
(1) Still better than the Tony Pulis way of playing football, which for the record can only go so far as this season as shown. Likewise for anyone who wants to refer to our transfer spending in recent years, one must be reminded that in the age of 9 figure transfer fees, City spending £400+ million does not get you as much compared to what the likes of Chelsea spent in the Mid-2000s (and even they failed to get a CL out of that). So despite the large amounts that we have spent, we are still a long way from both dominating the domestic game and winning the CL on a regular basis as games like these have shown.
(2) I mean for FFS they lost the midfield battle to a midfield 3 of Ox, Henderson and Millner. That says it all...
(3) Which in itself requires the best performance of the season in the 2nd leg, even if it means putting out the youths against Tottenham and hope they perform against the odds.
(4) I would especially say that City have paid the price in their failure to get Sanchez, who would have been a very useful option in siutations such as this.
(5) Despite their shortfalls.
Seriously?
You have perhaps the greatest depth out of all the Champions League sides. You have players who combined were brought in for well over 200 million sitting on your bench for crying out loud. Liverpool's depth is not even close to the same level as yours and they have several injuries on their hands.
The biggest reason that you failed to get anything out of this game is that of Pep's tactical ineptness to adjust how he's playing against Liverpool which was caught out earlier in the season and got caught out again yesterday. Just look at the record between Pep-Klopp.
The man has got Man City playing blinding football but he seriously gets caught out against certain types of teams time after time and that alone is the biggest reason he's failed to achieve major European success since leaving Barcelona and why he eventually had to leave Bayern. He's had different circumstances coming to City being allowed to freely spend Sheik Mansour's money two years in a row on top of an already strong side and still he fails to get his team up to scratch when it's squeaky bum time in the Champions League.
I'm not blaming it on luck. I'm saying juventus dominated the game for 60 minutes between Cris two goals and had plenty of chances to equalize. I'm saying the 2-0 score at that point was completely against the run of play. That wasn't down to luck though. Luck is the ref. Luck are barcelona's first two goals yesterday. Juventus weren't unlucky, they messed up because they played scared
Usually the team that attacks the most, creates more chances to score and hold the territorial advantage is more deserving. This is because usually, those things tend to be reflected in the score
Spurs? Juventus missed a penalty in the first leg and had a clear one denied in the second. They also got thoroughly outplayed and dominated for most of the 180 minutes. Spurs could have scored 3 goals in the first half in wembley. Again, it wasn't luck.
You could say that juventus saw a reversal of roles between the wembley game(which they won because they proved mentally stronger, readier and more resilient) and tuesday(which they lost because they played scared, hurried and worried)
I agree. City could easily turn this around but if we score the it's going to be hard for them. Like I said last night the first half is crucial in the second leg.
nah, we were mentally second best since the start and the quick goal by ronaldo just put another brick all over that... it is intangibles again, we pwnd spurs the same way madrid pwnd us... that said, having witnessed the golazo of the season with my fellow juve fans paying a standing ovation to a truly great player is worth this year campaign: we are usually despised or badmouthed as fans but won a few hearts from the neutrals, better than a SF or another final loss maybe.
Is it really too much to ask to not post like an absolute weirdo?
Some academic style guides frown on discursive footnotes so lets not bring them to a forum please