Breitner actually offered an even more interesting path than Rummenigge in my opinion.
Chain Draft (Main Thread)
- Thread starter Edgar Allan Pillow
- Start date
Christ, got deleted in copy/paste. Will put it back in.
If no concerns, I'd start the timelines from:
Tuesday, 25 August
17:00:00 hrs
GMT
I remember it being mentioned. That any reset or legacy players must be played. Don't know if it's in the OP, but I do remember it being introduced. Makes sense, otherwise where's the downside of doing it?
I suppose now the anxious waiting until our pick comes back around in 2 days...after watching the carnage on our chain unfolds.
@antohan is probably going to be very sympathetic
@antohan is probably going to be very sympathetic
Hmmm
*prepares noose*
*prepares noose*
You can all feck off having a problem with the reset card now when I screamed my head off against it for days in advance. Additional nationality card my arse.
It's a fact that getting certain players requires getting stuck. It's not a matter of "playing your way out" with underwhelming picks, sometimes you will legitimately get stuck because there's no C who hasn't played with A.
What is important is that it isn't a pisstake, i.e.:
1) "Getting stuck" is clearly defined and has mitigating factors for anyone making it up: DONE
2) That the manager can't use it to teleport himself to a different decade/continent, i.e. ideally a player will be a natural continuation of the chain in place and be picked from the current team or the one right before (so long as they meet the Carrick/Hargreaves/Brown standard of "goodness", whatever that is... winning a CL and multiple league titles, it seems).
3) The manager makes a case for 1 or more players that a) do not teleport him, b) are of a similar underwhelming all-time standard as the aforementioned poor United servants, c) alllow him to continue the chain, d) player HAS to play in the first game.
4) A neutral (or committee) can still veto it so the guy clearly can't be taking the piss.
@Edgar Allan Pillow still hasn't confirmed 2-4 though.
It's a fact that getting certain players requires getting stuck. It's not a matter of "playing your way out" with underwhelming picks, sometimes you will legitimately get stuck because there's no C who hasn't played with A.
What is important is that it isn't a pisstake, i.e.:
1) "Getting stuck" is clearly defined and has mitigating factors for anyone making it up: DONE
2) That the manager can't use it to teleport himself to a different decade/continent, i.e. ideally a player will be a natural continuation of the chain in place and be picked from the current team or the one right before (so long as they meet the Carrick/Hargreaves/Brown standard of "goodness", whatever that is... winning a CL and multiple league titles, it seems).
3) The manager makes a case for 1 or more players that a) do not teleport him, b) are of a similar underwhelming all-time standard as the aforementioned poor United servants, c) alllow him to continue the chain, d) player HAS to play in the first game.
4) A neutral (or committee) can still veto it so the guy clearly can't be taking the piss.
@Edgar Allan Pillow still hasn't confirmed 2-4 though.
Because you know why
Antohan being bossy again
cnuts
I knew it the moment you picked Charles, there was no way you were going all Leeds on us and out of three links two stood out: precisely the ones I wanted to action. And my next pick after that was most likely the one you are planning, ergo, the possible trainwreck with GS. There's also another path which may be very interesting, but I've no idea how you get back from it (without a reset as C would have played with A and B).
You feckers stole my catenaccio chain, but you will never have my Giacinto. Cue you feckers getting him in the first reinforcement!
No, I want rules to be clearly defined, that's all. Look at my All-Time draft OP for an example, it's meticulous.
I hate flip-flopping, particularly when the manager also plays. It's a surefire way to get meltdowns.
cnuts
I knew it the moment you picked Charles, there was no way you were going all Leeds on us and out of three links two stood out: precisely the ones I wanted to action. And my next pick after that was most likely the one you are planning, ergo, the possible trainwreck with GS. There's also another path which may be very interesting, but I've no idea how you get back from it (without a reset as C would have played with A and B).
You feckers stole my catenaccio chain, but you will never have my Giacinto. Cue you feckers getting him in the first reinforcement!
There really wasn't much in that Leeds side that made a Charles pick worthwhile, although I did run a few chains through there and they were all so underwhelming. Not sure if our next picks line up, although our path becomes well trodden soon enough, I'm sure. Depending on which way we decide to take it from here.
I am still envious of your Giacinto though, since I've never been able to come across him in a draft myself.
It does need to be nailed down. And quickly. Especially as some may end up down those lines fairly quickly.
It shouldn't be a reward for backing into a corner by giving you a link to a modern day super club. Just put you back on track. If someone ends up with underwhelming players because of the chain they chose, then so be it.
The manager playing the card can't do anything himself. For example (just in theory
) say one of us get stuck in 1950s Hungary, then without jumping decades and/or continents it'll be difficult even with backtracking. So I leave this option open. Suffice to say that the reset pick will not have 'juicy links'.The choice will be open and any other manager can contest it or propose a candidate. So other managers can
a) Look at chain to confirm themselves that it really is a dead end.
b) Propose or opine on reset nominations.
c) I will decide have the final decision. If I play the card, Aldo or another neutral will make that decision.
Let's not complicate this. I think it's be normal when we actually get the first case.
Thought it is fairly clear-cut whom your next pick should be
He is golden and any of the Plans A-C I had required him and no one else so it was an easy decision even when @mazhar13 downgraded my Plan A by introducing two water carriers in it instead of Falcão
Plan B took over but GS would probably make it break down, then you made it break down completely. I'm not sure whether to go for watered-down A or C now, I think I'll just go with my heart on this one and crash out in the first round. The reinforcement rules really screw it all up, it's a bit like in the decades draft when I wanted a Magyar homage side but between continental and decades rules it was impossible to ever get it remotely balanced. I'll give it a shot though, but I probably won't ever be completely happy with the team.
The manager playing the card can't do anything himself. For example (just in theory
The choice will be open and any other manager can contest it or propose a candidate. So other managers can
a) Look at chain to confirm themselves that it really is a dead end.
b) Propose or opine on reset nominations.
c) I will decide have the final decision. If I play the card, Aldo or another neutral will make that decision.
Let's not complicate this. I think it's be normal when we actually get the first case.
Well, you would have to define what a "juicy link" is then, going by prior sheep draft discussions having that free for all is a terrible idea.
See what the problem is? You leave far too many loose ends, if yooua re to create cards and odd rules you better have them watertight, which this clearly isn't.
Who proposes isn't even up for discussion IMO, a manager will have an idea on a certain style of play and some idea of which players he still needs to get to accomplish it. He can put forward 2-3 options and these could be vetoed, of course, but ultimately one will be agreed to which is satisfactory to the manager as well. Having you, or anyone else, let alone whoever shouts loudest on the thread decide who a manager's next player is and thus where you could possibly go is just wrong, whichever way you look at it. It's bad enough with sheep (single players), it's futile with meh players leading to disengaging paths.
I don't think you realise how likely it is that you end up having managers dropping like flies and losing interest here. That's one guaranteed way to get there: e.g. if I picked a certain RB next and he hadn't played 15 games at Juve I would be stuck, if you/committee/whoevershoutsloudest tell me I have to get Eddie Colman you can feck right off because it has bugger all with what I want to do and I have better things to do with my time. Drafts take over your life for a while (don't I know it, I really, really tried to avoid this), but if you are not enjoying them there's no point.
He is golden and any of the Plans A-C I had required him and no one else so it was an easy decision even when @mazhar13 downgraded my Plan A by introducing two water carriers in it instead of Falcão
The reinforcement rules really screw it all up, it's a bit like in the decades draft when I wanted a Magyar homage side but between continental and decades rules it was impossible to ever get it remotely balanced. I'll give it a shot though, but I probably won't ever be completely happy with the team.
I'm sure you'll still put something tasty together, or at the very least introduce some new hidden gems.
We actually had you pegged down for someone else as your possible first pick. Although Mazhar fecked that chain up too
Can I leave my 2nd pick to someone?
If you get stuck you deserve Eddie Coleman. So you think we can just skip and go back a turn and erase the mistake totally? You still have the nationality card, right? Expecting a reset player to be someone who 'fits your style of play' is just a pure cop out with no penalties.
@Edgar Allan Pillow can I leave you with my second pick?
Well, if no one wants to take my pick soon, might as well declare it upfront, since I don't think anyone before me will pick him
That's what I meant with following the heart, there's a path that takes me through a few that will never get rated but I want to write their stories. But, at the same time, I wouldn't want to make a disservice to them by having them in teams that don't get the best out of them. I certainly lost a big part of my interest in drafts when I picked a certain Peruvian and all I heard was how it was just me talling tales, it was like the guy wasn't even on the pitch and I was playing with ten. A guy who won everything there was to win at club level. Go figure.
OK, PM coming soonLeave it with me, it will help plan in advance,
Yes.
I think there should be no reset card, and the nationality card can be used anytime. It makes that card a bit OP, but at least it's clear what the options are.
You lead yourself down a dead end, your options are pick a mediocre player to try and keep your chain alive. Or use the nationality card. There's no need for a committee to try and decide a player you end up with. It's clear cut. Then if you do it again, you're shit outta luck.
The nationality card is only active after 7 turns (and I'm not advocating it shouldn't, that's clear and watertight, no point messing with it).
From the moment you mentioned the reset I told you it was a bad idea and could be used as a copout. You said the point was to remedy situations when people got stuck, which they genuinely can so fair enough and that the player would still be a good legacy level player but not a sheep and so on.
Now you are saying the guy deserves to be put up shit creek.
It's a different tune, and I don't like it one bit. I'd suggest you start looking for reserve/backup managers.
Leave it with me, it will help plan in advance,
Hmm, should I give antohan the advantage to plan upfront? Probably not
I have decided to be a cnut and PM to EAP. Sorry anto
Agree with this. Rummenigge > Breitner would have left him with better/more interesting options.
My 2nd pick is with EAP. Please tag him when it is my turn. Ciao
Is this acceptable to all?
I've just spent more time than is sensible linking my 9th pick to my 11th pick, fully aware that the chances of me getting to pick 4 with this chain intact are about 6%. The longer this is taking, the more stuck inside my own head I am getting.
I was just saying his reset pick will be of legacy quality, not a prime pick that adds to his strategy/gameplay. It will definitely not be a sheep either. It gives them a option to get out without a small penalty.
i thought this was already in the rules....
It was the obvious solution from the outset (assuming all picked players are internationals, which they probably would be!), but I suspect some managers may not be happy that it can be used earlier as they may have predicated their entire chain on it being active only after turn 7.
I suppose a compromise would be that it is only active until turn 7 unless you get stuck and need to use it earlier, but the conditions of "being stuck" must be met.
Quality isn't the main issue IMO, it's the manager being able to propose agreeably legacy "outs" he feels he can work back from and not being landed somewhere completely random on a whim. If quality/"juicy links" were an issue with his suggestion you can be pretty damn sure he won't have any luck.
I actually wouldn't have included Rummenigge at all. You come along enough fantastic attacking players that have to be in the chain anyway.
Currently It's in the rules only after pick 7, and there's also a reset card.
I proposed dropping the reset card and letting the nationality card be used anytime. That way everyone is still in control of their own picks and destiny, rather than trying to compromise on a reset player.