Centre Forward

[Cheesy]

We're fine up front. Even if you regard Kagawa as a midfielder, he'll be very effective in behind the main striker as well, which means if we're struggling at all then we play him there and play Rooney up front. I don't even think we'll need to do that though.

Welbeck has come on leaps and bounds in the past year. He's only going to keep on improving in my opinion.

Hernandez hasn't had the best of seasons, but again, I think with a full seasons rest and some development to his all-round game, he's going to be a much better player next season and he may score more goals for us as well.

That's 1 world class forward, plus another two very good ones who I feel will only get better over time. It's a gamble that we can't be sure of, but we can still look at Keane and Macheda as other options too. I'm not so sure that Macheda will make it here, but there's nothing to say that Keane won't be able to have a go at it.

You may be correct that we have a lot of midfielders, but you've ignored the fact that two of them are a lot older, can't play every game, and probably only have a couple of years left in them at best. I wouldn't be surprised to see Fletcher return, but I'd be very surprised to see him reach his best again and even at his best, he's more of a squad player as opposed to a world class one you want to rely on game in game out. Anderson may not make it here and if he doesn't play well next season, I think he'll be a goner. I'm more confident of Cleverley making it, but he's no guarnatee either.

Overall, we need a new central midfielder a lot more than we need a centre forward.

 

[Massive Spanner]

it would be if rooney was out for any period of time, thats for sure.

do you think 3 centre forwards, 1 established and 2 developing is enough???

Of course it is. 'Developing' is a silly word seeing as Hernandez and Welbeck as established internationals who have already shown themselves to be top young strikers who will only get better. Add Kagawa to the mix who practically plays in Rooney's role at times and we're fine. We'll also be going with a single striker a lot more next season I think, so we won't have 2 strikers on the pitch nearly as much.

What would be the point in signing a 20m+ striker and having one of them left lurking like Berbatov was last season?

 

[ben_foster]

So you suggest the club sepnds millions on a player to play in case Rooney is injured long term? What if that player get's injured then?

It's total pie in the sky to suggest that the club can bring in a player on millions a year just in case Wayne Rooney gets injured, especially when he's consistently played games for season after season.

Your argument is based on a massive "what if" - and even if that does happen other players will have to step up.

In an ideal world every club would no doubt like to have two or three top class players for every position, but it just isn't realistic.

If Welbeck and Hernandez were very young kids without much experience I'd agree that we're light, but the fact is they're not - and they will expect regular games. Indeed both have done enough to warrent regular games. Welbeck could be leading the line for his Country at the Euro's and Hernandez is a regular for one of the better international sides.

The club therefore has to either:

1) risk losing them; or
2) give them the chance if and when the time comes.

To bring in a player who may, or indeed may not, be any better than either of those two would be a strange choice when we clearly lack strength in depth and quaility in other areas.

nope.....never once said spend millions. simply stated we need more than 3.

 

[ben_foster]

still nobody willing to say that our forward line is superior to 1999, 2007 and city/madrid.

people are putting alot of faith in kagawa. i hope he's that good. i havent seen him.

 

[Raoul]

fine add young. ronaldo is fecking miles better so the point remains.

my point is simply this........i think we need 4 strikers. the reason being:-

in 1999 we could loose to injury/suspension or rest and of our forwards and still have 3 qaulity forwards capable of 20 goals and varying syles.

in 2007 we could loose to injury/suspension or rest and of our forwards and still have 3 qaulity forwards capable of 20 goals and varying syles. (we even rested / substituted rooney.

last season city lost tevez for 6 months and won the league by outscoring us.

if we lost rooney for any period of time next season, with the current squad, would you be confident in us competing?? i wouldnt. thats no critism of any of our players but a succesful side will play 60 games and i think that requires more than 3 centre forwards

If we lose Rooney, Welbeck and Hernandez are more than capable of picking up the slack. As are the likes of Nani, Valencia, Kagawa, Young etc.

 

[Beachryan]

I agree that Welbeck has shown glimpses of all the facets of a 'complete striker's' game - pace, trickery, interplay, holdup play and finishing - but does anyone actually believe Chicarito will ever be that type of player?

I love the lil fella, and he's a massive asset to the team but he's not and will never be a line leading 'one up top' striker. Not all forwards have to be, and he's still got a very important place in the team, but no amount of training and hard work is going to get him to that rounded a game.

 

[Raoul]

still nobody willing to say that our forward line is superior to 1999, 2007 and city/madrid.

people are putting alot of faith in kagawa. i hope he's that good. i havent seen him.

You can't compare different eras. Having Yorke, Cole, Ole, and Teddy in the same squad was a one off luxury, not a normal situation that can be expected every year.

 

[Massive Spanner]

nope.....never once said spend millions. simply stated we need more than 3.

Point still stands, what's the point in paying another striker wages and having him sitting on the bench or not even on the bench at all?

EDIT: What the feck is with your quoting abilities Ben? Christ.

 

[Raoul]

I agree that Welbeck has shown glimpses of all the facets of a 'complete striker's' game - pace, trickery, interplay, holdup play and finishing - but does anyone actually believe Chicarito will ever be that type of player?

I love the lil fella, and he's a massive asset to the team but he's not and will never be a line leading 'one up top' striker. Not all forwards have to be, and he's still got a very important place in the team, but no amount of training and hard work is going to get him to that rounded a game.

I can see Hernandez improving the parts of his game that aren't as strong as others. He won't be like Welbeck or Rooney, but then again the latter two don't have some of Chicharito's attributes. The important thing is that we have three strikers who each bring something differently to the table, which give Fergie's more options in how to deal with specific opposition tactics.

 

[ben_foster]

Point still stands, what's the point in paying another striker wages and having him sitting on the bench or not even on the bench at all?

EDIT: What the feck is with your quoting abilities Ben? Christ.

quoting abilities is a reference point for comparison. by compairing our forward line to teams that have succesfully accomplished our aims you can determine the how likeley it is that they will be achieved.

 

[Raoul]

quoting abilities is a reference point for comparison. by compairing our forward line to teams that have succesfully accomplished our aims you can determine the how likeley it is that they will be achieved.

What exactly does that mean ? Madrid won La Liga, Bayern made the CL final and Chelsea won the CL without your vaunted famous four striker set up. Therefore any argument that suggests we can't be successful without buying a striker is not legitimate. Other clubs do it all the time.

 

[ben_foster]

You can't compare different eras. Having Yorke, Cole, Ole, and Teddy in the same squad was a one off luxury, not a normal situation that can be expected every year.

well compare against city then

rooney, welbeck, hernandez against tevez, aguero, balotelli and dzeko.

4 strikers, all diferent styles. whom by the way will also improve

 

[devilish]

fine add young. ronaldo is fecking miles better so the point remains.

my point is simply this........i think we need 4 strikers. the reason being:-

in 1999 we could loose to injury/suspension or rest and of our forwards and still have 3 qaulity forwards capable of 20 goals and varying syles.

in 2007 we could loose to injury/suspension or rest and of our forwards and still have 3 qaulity forwards capable of 20 goals and varying syles. (we even rested / substituted rooney.

last season city lost tevez for 6 months and won the league by outscoring us.

if we lost rooney for any period of time next season, with the current squad, would you be confident in us competing?? i wouldnt. thats no critism of any of our players but a succesful side will play 60 games and i think that requires more than 3 centre forwards

Ronaldo is miles better then any player we can ever bring (realistic targets of course).

In 1999 we've had a quality midfield and forward line and the team used a 4-4-2 system which demanded 4 quality strikers

In 2007, we used a lone striker system and ended up having 3 strikers (Tevez-Rooney-Saha) just as we have now. With the latter being injury prone

We're not CL winner material yet. However with Kagawa's signing (who'll improve our creativity spark) and with Chicarito /Welbeck growing one year older (ie improving) our forward line is sorted for next season. There are other positions that need special attention. CM and LB (with Fabio gone, Evra is our only left back) to be specific.

 

[ben_foster]

What exactly does that mean ? Madrid won La Liga, Bayern made the CL final and Chelsea won the CL without your vaunted famous four striker set up. Therefore any argument that suggests we can't be successful without buying a striker is not legitimate. Other clubs do it all the time.

its means what it says. how the hell can you talk about football witough quoting abilities. cina's statement is rediculous!

 

[ben_foster]

Ronaldo is miles better then any player we can ever bring (realistic targets of course).

In 1999 we've had a quality midfield and forward line and the team used a 4-4-2 system which demanded 4 quality strikers

In 2007, we used a lone striker system and ended up having 3 strikers (Tevez-Rooney-Saha) just as we have now. With the latter being injury prone

We're not CL winner material yet. However with Kagawa's signing (who'll improve our creativity spark) and with Chicarito /Welbeck growing one year older (ie improving) our forward line is sorted for next season. There are other positions that need special attention. CM and LB (with Fabio gone, Evra is our only left back) to be specific.

ok ill agree with that. answer me this one very very simple question. are hernandez and welbeck as good as tevez and saha?

 

[Ash_G]

well compare against city then

rooney, welbeck, hernandez against tevez, aguero, balotelli and dzeko.

4 strikers, all diferent styles. whom by the way will also improve

Well Dzeko looks to be on his way out, also we don't know how City will actually deal with having Tevez, Aguero, Balotelli, silva and nasri fit all season. Tevez going awol helped them in some ways because they didn't have to address that situation. But anyway if you want to compare:

Strikers: Rooney, Welbeck, Hernandez, Berba
Strikers: Tevez, Aguero, Balotelli, Dzeko

(both the last two likely to leave so equal numbers)

Attacking midfielders/Wide players: Nani, Young, Valencia, Kagawa, Giggs
Silva, Nasri, Johnson, Milner, Pizzaro (?)

So in terms of numbers it's even. City have more established players doesn't mean ours aren't good though. We struggled more as a result of weakness in midfield and defence through injuries last season. In terms of numbers in the attack we really don't need to get someone. It'd be nice sure but not needed.

 

[Varun]

Always believed the 4th striker in the squad should be a young kid coming through specially with having to play 3 in the middle in quite a few games.

We're well stocked in the strikers department.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Kagawa is Berbatov's replacement.

 

[ben_foster]

Always believed the 4th striker in the squad should be a young kid coming through specially with having to play 3 in the middle in quite a few games.

We're well stocked in the strikers department.

yeah id be happy with that but we havent got a 4th. thats my point. we have always had 4 plus te likes of macheda, forlan, rossi, etc.

we now have 3. two are quite young/in experienced

 

[Raoul]

Always believed the 4th striker in the squad should be a young kid coming through specially with having to play 3 in the middle in quite a few games.

We're well stocked in the strikers department.

Same here. It should be Kiko or Keane.

 

[Ramshock]

Is Ben Guybrush Threepwood in disguise?

 

[ben_foster]

Well Dzeko looks to be on his way out, also we don't know how City will actually deal with having Tevez, Aguero, Balotelli, silva and nasri fit all season. Tevez going awol helped them in some ways because they didn't have to address that situation. But anyway if you want to compare:

Strikers: Rooney, Welbeck, Hernandez, Berba
Strikers: Tevez, Aguero, Balotelli, Dzeko

(both the last two likely to leave so equal numbers)

Attacking midfielders/Wide players: Nani, Young, Valencia, Kagawa, Giggs
Silva, Nasri, Johnson, Milner, Pizzaro (?)

So in terms of numbers it's even. City have more established players doesn't mean ours aren't good though. We struggled more as a result of weakness in midfield and defence through injuries last season. In terms of numbers in the attack we really don't need to get someone. It'd be nice sure but not needed.

if berbatov stays then fine. 4 senior strikers. different styles. not a problem.

problem being......he's going

 

[Raoul]

yeah id be happy with that but we havent got a 4th. thats my point. we have always had 4 plus te likes of macheda, forlan, rossi, etc.

we now have 3. two are quite young/in experienced

So were the likes of Scholes, Beckham, the Neville's, etc at one point during the 90s. We aren't in the business of suppressing our emerging players to appease our transfer muppet fantasies, we're in the business of developing them.

 

[ben_foster]

Same here. It should be Kiko or Keane.

kiko isnt going to be a united player. what, in the last 3 years has led you to beleieve that macheda is united qaulity?

 

[Steven Seagull]

yeah id be happy with that but we havent got a 4th. thats my point. we have always had 4 plus te likes of macheda, forlan, rossi, etc.

we now have 3. two are quite young/in experienced

Are you on fecking wind up? There's about 9 million posts in this thread explaining possible reasons why 3 strikers might suffice if we make use of Kagawa the same way Dortmund did. '99 was a different system to now, so 4 strikers aren't imperative. feckin hell

 

[Raoul]

kiko isnt going to be a united player. what, in the last 3 years has led you to beleieve that macheda is united qaulity?

Well if not him then Keane. We need to develop a young striker to complement our three main ones.

 

[ben_foster]

So were the likes of Scholes, Beckham, the Neville's, etc at one point during the 90s. We aren't in the business of suppressing our emerging players to appease our transfer muppet fantasies, we're in the business of developing them.

and ive said plenty of times i am all for that. signing midfilders will supress cleverley, anderson, petrucci, lingaard, cole, pogba, tunnicliffe.

signing a left back will supress fabio and fryers.

berbatov and owen prove the point entirley that if hernandez and welbeck are performing suitably then they will play.

 

[Ash_G]

if berbatov stays then fine. 4 senior strikers. different styles. not a problem.

problem being......he's going

Ok, and once again because we're signed a genuinely established attacking midfielder, who is pretty much Berba's replacement, we don't need 4 out and out strikers. As I said to you Dzeko is very likely to leave as well.

 

[Raoul]

and ive said plenty of times i am all for that. signing midfilders will supress cleverley, anderson, petrucci, lingaard, cole, pogba, tunnicliffe.

signing a left back will supress fabio and fryers.

berbatov and owen prove the point entirley that if hernandez and welbeck are performing suitably then they will play.

I haven't seen any indication that we are signing a midfielder, aside from Powell, so its a moot point.

You can't lump all youth players into the same argument. Each has to be evaluated on his own merits. Welbeck is far ahead of anyone else IMO, to be compared to Fryers, Cleverly etc. He's now a full England international and looks on the verge of becoming a star. Hernandez is in the same category.

 

[Varun]

yeah id be happy with that but we havent got a 4th. thats my point. we have always had 4 plus te likes of macheda, forlan, rossi, etc.

we now have 3. two are quite young/in experienced

Systems dictate the number of players you need for a position. Simple really. If you play a 4-4-2 like we traditionally do, you need 4 strikers, if you play a 4-3-3 like we intend to do, 3+ a youngster is enough.

Both Welbeck and Hernandez are much further along than you'd have us believe i feel. They are already very good strikers who will get even better with games and age. Supressing their progress with a new top striker would be detrimental for everybody concerned.

Its just the way we operate as a club really, bringing players through as much as possible unlike City who you mentioned have bought 4 strikers.

 

[Comsmit]

Ferguson always has his eye on strikers, he loves them.

Welbeck will become a terrific player and he could definitely lead the line if Rooney succumbs to injury. Hernandez doesn't have anywhere near enough in his game to start as the lone striker. He should never start ahead of Welbeck in that respect....never.

 

[Varun]

and ive said plenty of times i am all for that. signing midfilders will supress cleverley, anderson, petrucci, lingaard, cole, pogba, tunnicliffe.

signing a left back will supress fabio and fryers.

berbatov and owen prove the point entirley that if hernandez and welbeck are performing suitably then they will play.

Welbeck is much further along as a striker than those you've mentioned are as midfielders. As i thought, you're underestimating how good he is.

Regarding the last bit, as you correctly noticed, if berba and owen not getting games last season proves that hernandez and welbeck performed, why do you want to bring in another expensive player to sit on the bench this season?

 

[RedDevilCanuck]

I've often thought that United could use a big, strong Centre forward who can hold up the ball and give us another dimension when we are short of ideas.

The thing is, there really aren't any of these around who are United quality. Also this striker would have to be happy sitting on the bench most of the time.

I am also suggesting this because our wingers get so many crosses in and we are also impotent on set pieces. Some height would be nice but like I said who is really out there that could deliver for us. If Rooney get's hurt, I'm sorry but to rely on a kid and a limited Mexican won't be good enough.

Heskey anyone? heheheh

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

I've often thought that United could use a big, strong Centre forward who can hold up the ball and give us another dimension when we are short of ideas.

The thing is, there really aren't any of these around who are United quality. Also this striker would have to be happy sitting on the bench most of the time.

I am also suggesting this because our wingers get so many crosses in and we are also impotent on set pieces. Some height would be nice but like I said who is really out there that could deliver for us. If Rooney get's hurt, I'm sorry but to rely on a kid and a limited Mexican won't be good enough.

Heskey anyone? heheheh

Llorente

 

[Enigma_87]

I think this thread is turning to be a total knightmare for the OP.

 

[ben_foster]

Welbeck is much further along as a striker than those you've mentioned are as midfielders. As i thought, you're underestimating how good he is.

Regarding the last bit, as you correctly noticed, if berba and owen not getting games last season proves that hernandez and welbeck performed, why do you want to bring in another expensive player to sit on the bench this season?

Why does it have to be expensive?? Hernandez wasnt. He's happy to be on the bench. Like i said earlier jelovic (in hindsight) appears to be an ideal fit. Tall, mobile, good age and good price.

I am in no way underestimating welbeck. He has tge potential to be the saha / benzena type player which is ideal for us. It really is as simple as i think we need 4 forwards and not 3!!! One injury severley limits our options

Berbatov and perticularly owen dont have the personality to fight for a a place

 

[Red Dreams]

Realistically it is Rooney, Wellbeck and Hernandez.
Macheda I'm not sure if he will go on loan again.
Until his injury I thought Keane may have been a good shout for teh fourth striker role.
But if he is back for even half a season, Fergie may not add anyone else.

Our main need is still midfield. Feel still short of a proven player there.

Think we are not all set for the full back positions. The twins....??

Perhaps why names such as Clyne, Baines and others have been mentioned.

 

[ben_foster]

I think this thread is turning to be a total knightmare for the OP.

A little. Im amazed at the opposition to straight forward numbers. What would be a knightnare is if rooney got injured, or the other two at the same time!

 

[RedDevilCanuck]

Llorente

Just checked, he's 6'5!! Holy shit.

 

[Varun]

Why does it have to be expensive?? Hernandez wasnt. He's happy to be on the bench. Like i said earlier jelovic (in hindsight) appears to be an ideal fit. Tall, mobile, good age and good price.

I am in no way underestimating welbeck. He has tge potential to be the saha / benzena type player which is ideal for us. It really is as simple as i think we need 4 forwards and not 3!!! One injury severley limits our options

Berbatov and perticularly owen dont have the personality to fight for a a place

A little. Im amazed at the opposition to straight forward numbers. What would be a knightnare is if rooney got injured, or the other two at the same time!

Signing someone like Hernandez would mean having to give them games to develop as a player, you cannot simply sign a player to cover for an injury crisis. You need to play them and if we're moving towards a 4-3-3, you dont need 4 strikers. Tell me this, how many of the top teams in the whole of Europe have 4 top strikers?

Also, How does one injury severley limit our options? If Rooney gets injured, Kagawa plays there. If the other 2 get injured, Rooney moves to CF with Kagawa behind him which is how i expect us to set up in most big games anyways.