We'll adding a no 10 capable of scoring 21 goals in 49 matches. Its evident that we're changing to a lone striker system. Under such circumstances Hernandez, Rooney and Welbeck will suffice.
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- Thread starter ben_foster
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We'll adding a no 10 capable of scoring 21 goals in 49 matches. Its evident that we're changing to a lone striker system. Under such circumstances Hernandez, Rooney and Welbeck will suffice.
im refering to over the course of the season. its quite feasible to have rooney suspended, welbeck injured and hernendez woefully out of form.
am i incorrect in stating that at present, our forward line is weakener than some of the combinations previousley stated. both in terms of qaulity and qauntity.
granted that welbeck and hernandez both have huge potential. but so do cleveley, anderson and now kagawa. with carrick being a certain starter and fergie giving games to giggs and scholes, then spending money on cabaye/modric/tiote would reduce playing time/experience for anderson/cleverley and kagawa.
as previousley stated giggsy and scholesy will probs be in their final years. fletcher may never play again and park my go. However going into next season with carrick, anderson, giggs, scholes, kagawa and cleverley i think we are stronger in the 2/3 midfield positions than we are in the 1/2 centre forward positions.
add to that petrucci, tunnicliffe, lingaard and larnell cole (even maybe pogba) then we also have far more midfielders than forwards coming through.
Ruud van Nistelrooy was not a 6ft 4 centre forward. He lead the line but wasn't slow by any stretch of the imagination. For the record it made us (in my opinion) too predictable after a while - hence he was moved on, and we played much better football as a result.
We'll play one up top and it'll be Rooney first choice. Llorente (or any other £30 million player) won't be happy to come of the bench if we need a player to hold the ball up. Fact is we don't play like that very often.
As I said, nice to have a big strong forward on the bench - not a neccessity, especially when we're in dire need of a central midfield player.
Actually, no its not. Rooney and Welbeck both made over 40 appearances and Hernandez is more than capable of doing the same. You're fabricating bizarre worst case scenarios to make your story stick.
I think we will be fine. Rooney, Hernández and Welbeck as recognised forwards, with Young capable of playing there as well; with various players, including Kagawa, capable of playing as a second striker or in attacking midfield.
Another "Welbeck" (winger/forward) would be nice while giving us the flexibility of 4-4-2 and/or 4-2-3-1 and/or 4-3-3, but you can't have everything...
Another "Welbeck" (winger/forward) would be nice while giving us the flexibility of 4-4-2 and/or 4-2-3-1 and/or 4-3-3, but you can't have everything...
I don't really get the issue. Kagawa isn;t a competitor for the midfielders but for the strikers. He and Rooney can play in behind either Welbeck or Hernandez and then what will likely be our first choice attack, Kagawa will play behind Rooney.
If either get injured we can bring in either Welbeck or Hernandez. If both get injured we can bring in both the other two or simply move Young or Nani into the hole and play one of them.
3 players who are natural out and out strikers and an attacking midfielder should be more than enough. Another young player around would be nice but it's hardly a neccessity. If we were to get another established striker we'd have a serious issue giving Rooney, Kagawa, Welbeck, Hernandez and the new guy time.
I mean tbh if we really got unlucky and all 3 of Rooney, Welbeck and Hernandez were unavailable then I'm sure either Nani or Young could come in as makeshift strikers. Young has done it before at other clubs and Nani looked great there against swansea.
If either get injured we can bring in either Welbeck or Hernandez. If both get injured we can bring in both the other two or simply move Young or Nani into the hole and play one of them.
3 players who are natural out and out strikers and an attacking midfielder should be more than enough. Another young player around would be nice but it's hardly a neccessity. If we were to get another established striker we'd have a serious issue giving Rooney, Kagawa, Welbeck, Hernandez and the new guy time.
I mean tbh if we really got unlucky and all 3 of Rooney, Welbeck and Hernandez were unavailable then I'm sure either Nani or Young could come in as makeshift strikers. Young has done it before at other clubs and Nani looked great there against swansea.
Yeah I suppose you have a point there, although I think there are differences.
The standard of the midfield is lower than that of attack. Whilst Hernandez and Welbeck are young, I think they are better options than the comparitive ones we have in the middle. Welbeck was great last year for me, some people complain about his finishing but I'd have no qualms about starting him with Rooney next year. Hernandez wasn't at his best last season, but his ability is obvious. Again I'd have no issues with him playing, he just needs to work on his first touch which will come with time. In comparison Cleverley, Anderson, Giggs don't give me the same confidence.
Also you cannot carry a player in centre mid in the same way you can upfront. For example Chich could have a quiet 80 minutes then score, which would be fine. Even if he didn't score it is accepted that strikers have quiet games. That isn't the case for midfield though, if a player goes missing then the team will get overrun, especially if we play just 2 in the middle. That is a criticism that can be levelled at Giggs and Anderson.
Then there is the injury concerns. We can't expect Anderson and to a lesser extent Cleverley to play 30 games in a season. Hence, the need for another signing.
That's some, probably more but posting on my phone so..
I don't understand. Most of our fans (and other club fans) know that midfiled is our weak area. With King coming through (pity about his injury) and the signing of Kagawa hinting at one up top, I can't see how we have room for another striker.
so in this lone striker system we will be playing
carrick scholes/anderson/cleverley
valencia kagawa/giggs young /nani
rooney.
whilst i would agree that looks great. it also blatently obvious that it only looks great with an on form rooney in the side. the midfield has numerous options with a host of other back up players not included.
as i say the llorente thing was fantasy footbally a little bit. but i maintain that i would much rather us spend money on a centre forward than a midfielder. RVP may well be available at a reduced fee. he would strnegthen our side far more than any midfielder thats been linked with us.
out of all the midfielders linked with us cabaye/modrc/tiote (i rate all by the way) i dont think any would be garenteed first team starters
Ok but what about Welbeck and Hernandez. Both very good players who will only get better and both can lead the line very well. I was all for RVP on the cheap but now with Kagawa it's unnecessary. Add to that we have 3 quality wingers.
Midfield is the far bigger issue as, as your team shows there's no alternative to Carrick. We need someone else who can provide defensive stability there and who is more reliable fitness wise then scholes/clev/ando. That will help us out loads in tougher games as well as mean we're not gambling on Carrick staying fit.
Will Keane could have been an option for a 4th striker. Doubt we'll go for anyone and not sure its required.
Its also playing on racial stereotypes. No need for it.
cole, yorke, sheringham solksjear
rooney, ruud, saha, ronaldo
rooney, tevez, ronaldo, and berbatov
all (by far) superior to:-
rooney, welbeck, hernandez.
No fabrication required at all!!!
yeah they both made 40 appearences this year. doesnt mean they will next year. worst case scenarios happen.........look at our defensive injuries over recent years. its exactly the problem england are facing. it looks good with rooney but take him out then you have two poorer players. also......as you rightly point out. webeck made 40 odd appearences, what his gal return sufficient?
We didn't exactly struggle for goals last year and also you once again left out Kagawa who will play attacking midfield. Not to mention in those more recent strike forces we didn't have 3 other quality wingers who can all pitch in with goals.
petrucci, lingaard, cole, maybe pogba and tunnicliffe are all options in midfield.
the dact remains.....we only have 3 strikers!!! one has massive potential. the other will always score goals but is he caable of pushing the other two for a start???
nor where we exactly free scoring. as i keep saying, take rooney out and it doesnt look that good. welbeck return for a united striker playing 40 games is not exactly brilliant is it????? its really not althat unlikeley that rooney maybe out for 6 or 7 weeks. maybe more. IF that happened then we would have welbeck and hernandez, personally i dont think that would be strong enough over a number of weeks. espeically if it coicided with a busy fixture period.
even if we had outscored everybody in the league with 3 world class centre forwards.........id still prefer to have a fourth, like we always have done
those teams had qaulity wingers and midfielders that chipped in.
Ronaldo was a winger. Why are you including him in your list of strikers? By that logic we could throw in Kagawa and Ashley Young into the mix. There's no magical rule that says we need four "recognized" strikers, especially if we only play a one striker formation.
Some clubs have four well known strikers, some don't. Madrid, Bayern, Chelsea are examples that 2-3 will suffice.
I see no point in getting another striker, focus on the middle of the park and maybe a full back. We're ridiculously well stocked for forward players and wingers now that we have Kagawa here too.
This Crewe kid, Powell, is he a striker or a CM?
If striker then we problem solved.
If striker then we problem solved.
I think Kagawa will support the 3 strikers we have. That suits his play rather than being an out and out midfielder.
Saf may surprise us and bring in an unknown with potential. I cant see a much cash being invested in that area when other areas need it.
he played up top with rooney wide in his final season.
he also scored 30+ goals i his last few years with us. we dont have anybody capable of doing that at te minute which only strengthens my point
What about Midfield/Left back?
Also Rooney,Welbeck, Hernandez is quite a young strike force.
What happens to Will Keane who Fergie said would be in the 1st team next season?
We surely don't need a striker this season.
Also Rooney,Welbeck, Hernandez is quite a young strike force.
What happens to Will Keane who Fergie said would be in the 1st team next season?
We surely don't need a striker this season.
madrid and bayern have wide men who score 2 and 3 times the amount of goals welbeck and hernandez did last year.
they all also when playing with a loan striker.....play with a big strong...out and out centre forward. rooney can do that but he is very different to gomes/benzema/drogba
Rooney scored 30 + goals this year and two seasons before, both of which happened after Ronaldo left. He's certainly capable of doing the same again this year given that he's in his prime years. In fact, with Kagawa in the mix, I can see Rooney cracking 40 next year.
Welbeck and Hernandez are certain capable of knocking in 20 as well, as is Kagawa for that matter.
he's injured. and for feck sake, if people are proposing will keane has our 4 striker then we have petrucci, tunnicliffe lingaard, cole and maybe pogba whom are at a similar level to keane who can cover midfield.
As for the first 4 - Sheringham wasn't young anymore, and was happy not to start every game, swapping regular football for a chance at trophies. Solskjaer was a known and regular sub. We also regularly played 2 up front.
The second 4 - we played a variation of 4-3-3, and Ronaldo often attacked from wide, or latterly Rooney found himslef shifted out to the left to accomodate Tevez. Saha hardly ever played due to injury.
The last 4 - Ronaldo again regularly played from wide. Tevez didn't get enough games and moaned.
Not comparable situations - in the latter two cases Ronaldo played half the time as a winger. We have three quaility players in Nani Valencia and Young vying for those positions as well.
We will likely play with one out and out striker, and have two other players in Welbeck and Hernandez who will want to make plenty of appearences.
You can't have players who expect to play hanging about in case players get injured - especially when that money can be better spent elsewhere.
Yeah, it's feasible we could be in a situation like that for a couple of games. Hopefully the wingers or attacking midfielders will step up and score a few goals in that situation. Signing a striker who is happy to sit on the bench won't do much to change that though, he's just as likely to be out of form.
Yeah, we're weaker than in previous years, but we're weaker in most areasthan we were in previous years - left back, right back, centre back, goalkeeper, right wing, centre mid, they aren't a patch on their counterparts from 2008 team. We're simply not at that level any more, and we're certainly not going to make our forward line as good as it was then without spending an enormous amount to replace Ronaldo and Tevez.
The midfield should be prioritised because of how reliant we are on Michael Carrick, in our current situation we are one serious injury away from being reliant on Darren Fletcher, a man who hasn't consistently played well for two seasons, for defensive cover, in other words we are fecked. The much vaunted Cleverley/Anderson partnership has only been successful against pathetic or unfit opposition, and both players are hugely injury prone anyway. If Rooney gets injured, we can play Welbeck, if Welbeck is unavailable as well, we can play Hernandez, if all 3 are unavailable, we can use Young or Nani there, Plan C for the midfield is what, Scholes as a DM? The danger is simply far more serious in central midfield.
Also, it's perfectly normal that you'd have more players to cover for 3 positions than you would to cover for 1.
The vast majority of highly rated kids never make it.
With Will Keanes injury I'm wondering if we'll move forward the plans to bring Henriquez over.
And we have two of the best wingers in the world and another player in Young, who is not too far behind. Your point ?
Good God, this place has finally gone full retard. They scored 58 goals between them last season you unfathomably dense imbecile.
im not disputing the fact that rooney can score goals. im saying that should by some crazy act he gets injured then id put my life on welbeck and hernandez not being able to get 30!
rvp, aguero, dempsey, yakubu, adebayor, ba, holt, dzeko, balotelli, cisse, steven fletcher, danny graham, jermaine defoe van der vaart, lampard, sturidge, suerez, crouch and odemwingie scored more and bent, steve morrison, jelavic and bale scored the same amount of goals than danny welbeck last year. hernandez actualy got more league goals.
he wasnt bit part......he was first choice. as somebody quite rightly pointed out he played 40 odd games. imgaine if he struggle after the euro's????
If Fergie's plan is to play Kagawa behind Rooney, then having hernandez and welbeck in the bench would be more than enough in our forward line.
I was thinking more in the line of a 4-2-3-1 similar to this
---------Carrick/Fletch/new guy---------Ando/Clev/Scholes------------
Valencia-------------------Kagawa/Young--------------------Nani/Park
---------------------------Rooney/Welbeck/Chicarito----------------
In practice things are more complicated then that. For example Rooney/Young/Clev can play instead of Kagawa if needs be. Kagawa and Welbeck can move on the flanks etc. Not to forget that there may be games when we will revert to 4-4-2 (ex against week opposition). However the concept will be the formation mentioned above which at the end of the day is similar to what United played when we last lifted the CL trophy.
I have confidence in both Welbeck and Chicharito to fill the gaps if Rooney is out. The logic of buying yet another striker would seem counterintuitive as it would relegate those two as 3rd and 4th choice. That's not going to happen. Even if Fergie opted to invest in a striker this summer (which is highly unlikely) it would almost certainly be a developing player.
our best wingers in the world get 6-8 goals per season. ronaldo, ribery, robben, di maria get more.
so when you have ronaldo who scores 45 goals per year then you can get away with only having 3 senior recognised strikers on your books. we have rooney who can get 30ish goals. then we drop down to hernandez on 10!!!! thats my point!!!
in fact that is exactly my point. madrid, chelsea, bayern, barcelone, city, all have numerous players scoring 20 odd goals per season. we have rooney!!!! which is great, but if rooney was to be missing for any period of time his replacement would be hernandez or welbeck.
if everybody thinks thats sufficent then great. i really hope everybody stays fit and rooney gets 30 goals, welbeck and hernandez get 20 each and kagawa isnt far behind. if that happens i garentee we'll win the league.
Ahhh, so many exclamation marks!!!!!!!
Hernandez had 20+ the season before last, Welbeck will only get better and score more, Nani usually gets 10+, Young scores a fair few, Valencia scores a fair few, our new lad Kagawa had 15 or something for Dortmund last season and I don't see why he can't do the same here. Vidic scores from corners, Jones scores a few too.
In fact that only area we're actually missing goals from is our midfield so maybe, just maybe, we should focus on sorting that out.
Hernandez had 20+ the season before last, Welbeck will only get better and score more, Nani usually gets 10+, Young scores a fair few, Valencia scores a fair few, our new lad Kagawa had 15 or something for Dortmund last season and I don't see why he can't do the same here. Vidic scores from corners, Jones scores a few too.
In fact that only area we're actually missing goals from is our midfield so maybe, just maybe, we should focus on sorting that out.
quite possibly. id be more than happy with that. thats our way of operating and im proud of that. the thing is we only have one striker who isnt developing in rooney. welbeck and hernandez are both going through that process themselves, i think it would make sense to help them develop be bringing in a another striker. an owen type player (who actually is fit to play) would be ideal or as you rightly say a developing player. i totally agree with all of your points.
in addition.....by adopting the same logic, then spending big on a midfielder who knock all of our young midfielders down the pecking order. personally i would say cleverley and anderson have just as much potential as welbeck and hernandez.
totally agree. but in that game we had ronaldo wide left who got 44 goals that year. we had tevez and rooney who got 20 odd each???? bit different from our current forward line isnt it?