Bundesliga 2017/18

do.ob said:
It has little to do with VAR. Blowing the whistle interrupts the game. Players stop what they are doing and set up for a dead ball. If you commit an offense that is unrelated to the flow of the game (like punching someone in the face) then I'm sure VAR can get you, even after a whistle.
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If the ref on the pitch hadn't seen the punch to the face, that was possible even before VARs.

My biggest beef with VAR is that the ref has the full information, the TV audience has 50%, and the idiots who paid 100 quid or more to see the game live are completely in the dark. No idea why they can't go "hockey" all the way - put the video on the stadium screen and give the ref a microphone.
 
strongwalker said:
If the ref on the pitch hadn't seen the punch to the face, that was possible even before VARs.

My biggest beef with VAR is that the ref has the full information, the TV audience has 50%, and the idiots who paid 100 quid or more to see the game live are completely in the dark. No idea why they can't go "hockey" all the way - put the video on the stadium screen and give the ref a microphone.
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HD VAR pictures, video screens and microphones. Slow down you tech geek. First they have to figure out how to draw a straight line.:(
 
JustFootballFan said:
HD VAR pictures, video screens and microphones. Slow down you tech geek. First they have to figure out how to draw a straight line.:(
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Well, some genius obviously thought it wass a brilliant idea to show me the very game on the video screens that takes place in this moment on the green pitch right in front of my face;
so i figured it would be technically possible :D
 
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Keeps It tidy said:
http://www.espn.co.uk/football/germ...y-as-bundesligas-brain-drain-stifles-progress
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I don't see the point of that article. Foreign money doesn't help, but the last time Schalke played attacking football must have been 2002 and aside from Dortmund (usually) and Leverkusen, it's actually Bremen and Hoffenheim - two rather poor clubs - that try to play proper football.

I'd rather say that were witnessing the Klopp hangover: lots of clubs/coaches that try to get the same cost efficiency, but they lack the magic of Klopp and his Dortmund squad.
There is also a generational shift in coaches where most old coaches have faded and been replaced by extremely young ones, with little inbetween - Bayern signing Kovac is consequence of this. It'll be interesting to see what the generation of Kohlfeldt, Tedesco, Nagelsmann and even Tuchel will be capable of once they mature
 
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Hi all,

I'm considering going to Berlin for the DFB Pokal final on May 19th. Thing is I've no match ticket and may require two.
How realistic is it to get tickets outside the stadium & at what price?
I would obviously expect to be paying a tout.

Anyone know of alternative sources?
 
I honestly don't know why Wolfsburg suck that much, they have some decent players on their roster.
 
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RW2 said:
Hi all,

I'm considering going to Berlin for the DFB Pokal final on May 19th. Thing is I've no match ticket and may require two.
How realistic is it to get tickets outside the stadium & at what price?
I would obviously expect to be paying a tout.

Anyone know of alternative sources?
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Some years ago I got me a package with hotel and tickets at one of the sport travel agencies. It was not cheap but still affordable. At the end it might be cheaper than getting tickets on the black market.
 
Wow - halftime Leipzig - Hoffenheim 0:3...

Somebody watches that match? I just saw the result.

Hoffenheim, Leverkusen - and Bayern - are the teams on song right now.
 
One season wonder club, RB. Same like Leicester. No pride from players. Hope they are relegated next season.
 
Biji.Kelot said:
One season wonder club, RB. Same like Leicester. No pride from players. Hope they are relegated next season.
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No chance. They'll establish themselves as one of the stronger german clubs in the following years, I have little doubt about that. It was to be expected that a club without experience would struggle in their first season with european football (it coming after only one year of top flight football on top of that).
Two seasons of top flight football with one outstanding season and one where they'll still finish in the top half and are still well within shouting distance of qualifying for a european competition... Hard to call them a "one season wonder club" on that basis.
 
Nice if you can bring Müller and Lewy from the bench. Müller scored the first and assisted the third, Lewy scored the second...
 
Piratesoup said:
No chance. They'll establish themselves as one of the stronger german clubs in the following years, I have little doubt about that. It was to be expected that a club without experience would struggle in their first season with european football (it coming after only one year of top flight football on top of that).
Two seasons of top flight football with one outstanding season and one where they'll still finish in the top half and are still well within shouting distance of qualifying for a european competition... Hard to call them a "one season wonder club" on that basis.
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Will be interesting to see how they turn out. At the moment, they seem to have the same problems like Schalke, Leverkusen, Dortmund, Gladbach etc. Talented, young palyers but they start to lose them to European giants as Keita is gone in the summer and Forsberg demanding a move. The BVB was also able to compensate the first departures but when the "second generation" - Gündogan, Hummels, Lewandowski, etc. - left, it looked different. That's the thing with talents, there is always a risk.

When Leipzig isn't able to convince its top players to stay at the club, they are just another one of this German second tier clubs, no matter how professionally they are managed and backed up by Red Bull, and will inevitably face the same problems and inconsistencies. If they really want to become a competition for Bayern, they need to retain their players and fetch top class ones from abroad and this requires much more money than they are already getting.
 
No club keeps its top players if the club itself isn't an absolute top club. There are rare exceptions, Totti, Reus, Gerrard and so on but in the end it's just a matter of time.
So no RBL won't be able to keep players like Keita, Werner, Forsberg, Upamecano for long but they should be able to generate such players at a good rate.

To think RBL can be competition for Bayern is just pure madness. They might have Red Bull backing them but they are no Sheiks and won't spent billions on player fees and wages.
 
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Why does everybody talk first about competition to Bayern - they first need to stay on top against the other some clubs in the same situation and the other some in even worse. That let's the club slowly grow, keeps them in the cl places, gets them good sponsors etc.
 
Nice match between Dortmund and Leverkusen, a lot of young talented players on show, Pulisic and Sancho are leading the show.

Reus just makes it 2-0 after Sancho scored the first, assisted by Pulisic.

Edit: Ohhhh called offside on VAR, looked the right call. Sad, great finish by Reus. He needed a goal to boost his confidence.
 
Piratesoup said:
No chance. They'll establish themselves as one of the stronger german clubs in the following years, I have little doubt about that. It was to be expected that a club without experience would struggle in their first season with european football (it coming after only one year of top flight football on top of that).
Two seasons of top flight football with one outstanding season and one where they'll still finish in the top half and are still well within shouting distance of qualifying for a european competition... Hard to call them a "one season wonder club" on that basis.
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But never like this. They kept their squad together, put another €60m into it while only selling insignificant players like Burke and Selke. Their GD is literally ZERO, while Schalke, Dortmund, Leverkusen and Hoffenheim sit on +14/20/14/16. There is no aspect of bad luck in them being placed 6th, they really don't deserve more. It's not like everyone else is having a stellar season either. Schalke, Dortmund, Leverkusen are all busy finding themselves, Hoffenheim also had to deal with European football only that they had to sell their entire spine (I don't think you can Nagelsmann high enough for getting them up there again).

The only thing keeping them from falling apart this summer and truly being a one season wonder will be Red Bull's money.
 
RB overachieved a lot in their first year.

This year was the levelling off one.

Losing Keita will be a big blow. Forsberg seems to have dipped aswell.
 
Hassenhutl hasn't be able to adjust to the European fixtures and can't settle into a consistent first team lineup. Last year his team was mostly the same throughout the season with Gulasci, Bernado, Commper, Orban, Halstenberg, Sabitzer, Keita, Demme, Forsberg, Werner, Poulsen being the consistent starting XI; the only uncertainty really being the RB spot because of Klostermann's early season ending injury.

This season they had to bring in more players with Bruma, Augustin and Konate because of the greater number of fixtures and that has meant they have had to chop and change their team throughout the season, thereby losing the team chemistry that was so strong last season. It is a typical case we see with alot of clubs who enter Europe for the first time (or after a long time) and are not used to having to adjust how they build a team with so many more matches.
 
I have to say, I’m impressed by the fans of Köln.

Bottom of the league, playing the #2 team in the league, basically certain to be relegated, and they’ve packed their stadium out.
 
And they came back after a 0:2 to now 2:2.

What is wrong with the Bundesliga is that the second has 40% ball possession when playing the last... and whereas the Last has 82 % pass completition the second just has 74%.
 
Blackwidow said:
And they came back after a 0:2 to now 2:2.

What is wrong with the Bundesliga is that the second has 40% ball possession when playing the last... and whereas the Last has 82 % pass completition the second just has 74%.
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That's a bit of a reach though. Schalke is a statistical outlier, they're average at ball possession and at shots taken but make up for it by converting a high percentage of chances. Add one of the top defenses of the league to that and you get a rather unexpected 2nd place.
 
uamini said:
That's a bit of a reach though. Schalke is a statistical outlier, they're average at ball possession and at shots taken but make up for it by converting a high percentage of chances. Add one of the top defenses of the league to that and you get a rather unexpected 2nd place.
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But it is not really atypical for the Bundesliga. Every year you have at least one destructive team up there. Currently, we have two with Frankfurt and Schalke. Teams that don't really want to create but are very reactive. Even the success of Leipzig and Leverkusen under Schmidt are/were purely pressing and quick transition based. Dortmund and Bayern aside, you have no top team that wants to have the ball and create chances through thoughtful passing, dribbling etc.
Leverkusen tries it under Herrlich but still has a long way to go as the last two matches show.

I think this is the big problem of the league. Few teams look like they have an idea how to tear defenses apart. They are more likely to score if the opponent has the ball. Not a particularly sustainable way of approaching football, especially once you play against European opponents.
 
Zehner said:
But it is not really atypical for the Bundesliga. Every year you have at least one destructive team up there. Currently, we have two with Frankfurt and Schalke. Teams that don't really want to create but are very reactive. Even the success of Leipzig and Leverkusen under Schmidt are/were purely pressing and quick transition based. Dortmund and Bayern aside, you have no top team that wants to have the ball and create chances through thoughtful passing, dribbling etc.
Leverkusen tries it under Herrlich but still has a long way to go as the last two matches show.

I think this is the big problem of the league. Few teams look like they have an idea how to tear defenses apart. They are more likely to score if the opponent has the ball. Not a particularly sustainable way of approaching football, especially once you play against European opponents.
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I know what you’re saying. I can’t quite put my finger on how to describe it, other than to say that the general style of play that you see when you watch the Bundesliga seems more frenetic than even the Premier League.
 
Carolina Red said:
I know what you’re saying. I can’t quite put my finger on how to describe it, other than to say that the general style of play that you see when you watch the Bundesliga seems more frenetic than even the Premier League.
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I guess you're talking about two pressing machines facing each other, both very well drilled in compactness and transitions but without a clue about how to deal with a mirror matchup. So you have quick turnover after turnover in midfield and zero control on either side.
 
do.ob said:
I guess you're talking about two pressing machines facing each other, both very well drilled in compactness and transitions but without a clue about how to deal with a mirror matchup. So you have quick turnover after turnover in midfield and zero control on either side.
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Yes! It seems like more often than not, a Bundesliga match turns into this.

It doesn’t bother me, mind you, as it makes for a lot of back and forth and definitely requires some athletes on the pitch. If it’s a day of dull PL fixtures and United isn’t on, I typically tune into the BL matches because it’s usually very back and forth.
 
Only very few top clubs are comfortable playing with the ball, Many will rather surrender the ball and hope to capitalize on errors made. Mourinho made a career out of this. Conte, Klopp also did this a lot. While Bayern Barca City possession based teams always get derided for it. On the surface surrendering possession and countering looks like a smart tactic(doing more with less) but when you fall behind and need to create you find that you are not able to do that effectively and have to rely on set pieces
 
kaiser1 said:
Only very few top clubs are comfortable playing with the ball, Many will rather surrender the ball and hope to capitalize on errors made. Mourinho made a career out of this. Conte, Klopp also did this a lot. While Bayern Barca City possession based teams always get derided for it. On the surface surrendering possession and countering looks like a smart tactic(doing more with less) but when you fall behind and need to create you find that you are not able to do that effectively and have to rely on set pieces
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Possession teams get criticised because they often fail in tough CL away games where you need to be able to play on the counter and nick one for a sneaky 1-1 or 0-1 away win. I agree pretty much with your premise and had the same thoughts about Mourinho, but, surprisingly enough, he turned it around in recent weeks. Comeback wins against Chelsea, City and Spurs with just 1 set piece goal and 6 goals scored from open play went against everything we were supposed to know about Mourinho teams.

Generally, I believe it is wrong to categorize the top coaches in this possession v counter discussion because the best ones like Klopp, Mourinho, Allegri, Conte etc. will still find a way to win regardless of ideology. Superior player material also plays a part here of course, but it is not like Atletico under Simeone didn't come back against Real in the 2016 CL final after going behind first.

The problem is more when the masses of average coaches in Bundesliga turn to the pressing schtick without any posession plan. And it does not even mean entertaining games, more often than not it means ugly 1-1s with lucky goals like pens or goalkeeper mistakes (look at Stuttgarts goals under Korkut, very lucky goals).

One big factor was the coach training (Trainerausbildung) by the DFB, but now that Frank Wormuth is gone, I hope it gets better.
 
Jonas Hector - the left back for Germany - has extended his contract in Cologne until 2023 and will go with them to 2nd league.
 
Keeps It tidy said:
And their were reports that he was going to join Bayern. He is showing some real loyalty.
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There were reports for him going to Dortmund or Leverkusen, too.

Actually it does not really surprise me so much with him. He is the guy who stayed until 20 at his home club Auersmacher and did not go in any of the academies despite having offers for that.
 
Carolina Red said:
I have to say, I’m impressed by the fans of Köln.

Bottom of the league, playing the #2 team in the league, basically certain to be relegated, and they’ve packed their stadium out.
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Amongst the greatest fans in the world. Ask Arsenal. :lol:


Jonas Hector gave me goosebumps today. A german nationalplayer which could easily join a big Bundesliga side, maybe even Dortmund or Bayern, decided to stay in Cologne, extended his contract and goes to the 2. Bundesliga. This kind of romance has really become rare in this sport.
 
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