Bundesliga 2016/17

very interesting interview with former Pundit (some call him a legend) Marcel Reif in a munich paper today. As much as i hated him when he was on the microphone, i gotta admit he has a good sense of football. His points:

- Dortmund management made a decision do not try to be Bayern hunter/European top adress, but rather focus on developing talent and selling them on to the big ones. Tuchel on the other hand wants to win titles.

He has a point there. This already caused tensions start of the season when tuchel wanted experience in the squad after losing Weidenfeller, Kehl and Hummels, and got a bag ful of teenagers, which never really went away. I can see him leaving for a club with deeper pockets. If Bayern doesn't take him on (unlikely at the moment, maybe Wolfsburg? or some non-german team.

- While Ancelotti profits a big deal from Peps work (and the others before him), he is far more than the leader of the entertainment department. No one accused him of not being respected at any club he was and won titles. He has a gift to be compatible with all kind of tempers, and he knows how to blance the phsical load.

Reif also puts his money on Hoffenheims Nagelsmann for next Bayern coach.

That's a nightmare situation to find yourself in. A bit like Southampton who buy talented young players or bring them through their own Academy before selling them on for a large profit.

Would you like Nagelsmann in a few years? 29 year old. Incredible.
 
That's a nightmare situation to find yourself in. A bit like Southampton who buy talented young players or bring them through their own Academy before selling them on for a large profit.

Would you like Nagelsmann in a few years? 29 year old. Incredible.

He's had (barely) one good season. Let's wait and see how he performs in the coming years. At this point, I'd rather have Tuchel.
 
Lewandowski vs Nacho. Gee, i wonder how that will turn out :rolleyes:
 
Btw, Ribery turning back the clock and playing like it's 2013? Thank Ancelotti for that. He's been chasing Ribery for years. Tried to have him signed for Chelsea, PSG AND Real Madrid. Even at milan he was interested but Berlusconi gave him past-it Ronaldinho(Silvio chased 'Dinho for years, since he saw him against milan in 2004)
 
Robben AND Ribery on the same pitch at the same time, too, and both playing great... yeah, it must be 2013.
 
Btw, Ribery turning back the clock and playing like it's 2013? Thank Ancelotti for that. He's been chasing Ribery for years. Tried to have him signed for Chelsea, PSG AND Real Madrid. Even at milan he was interested but Berlusconi gave him past-it Ronaldinho(Silvio chased 'Dinho for years, since he saw him against milan in 2004)

Dinho was class during 209/2010. Rolled back the years somewhat.
 
Nah, not really. Leonardo had them play super open and Dinho scored a lot, but on the whole no, he was already clearly not interested anymore. Played in 30 meters and was more interested in doing tricks then winning games
 
Nah, not really. Leonardo had them play super open and Dinho scored a lot, but on the whole no, he was already clearly not interested anymore. Played in 30 meters and was more interested in doing tricks then winning games

15 goals and 15 assists is not to be scoffed at. It was the first time in over 2 years that he stayed fit for an entire season and played in nearly every game.
 
You shouldn't forget that football is only a game.You have to be focussed but don't take it too seriosly. Ribery can speak a little Italian and is always in a good mood. I like irony and having a joke with him. Of course, he can't play in every game because i've got a lot of good players. But i believe we have found a good balance. I've told Frank. Listen, you are like a Ferarri -- and you can't drive a Ferarri every day -- only on Sundays. You cannot play when it's not a Sunday. He can laugh about it. He is a good bloke.
 
Ingolstadt refuse to go down. Amazing week for them with 3 wins in a row while Augsburg and Mainz can't even get a draw and now they have a real shot at leaving the relegation places by beating Wolfsburg in the next match.
 
That's a nightmare situation to find yourself in. A bit like Southampton who buy talented young players or bring them through their own Academy before selling them on for a large profit.

Would you like Nagelsmann in a few years? 29 year old. Incredible.
Nagelsmann? Haven't made up my mind about him yet. Reif supposes that Hoffe winning against us may tip the scales in his favour. Bit worrying to think Hoeness' mind still works like this. I'd like a bit more rationalism for big decisions.
 
very interesting interview with former Pundit (some call him a legend) Marcel Reif in a munich paper today. As much as i hated him when he was on the microphone, i gotta admit he has a good sense of football. His points:

- Dortmund management made a decision do not try to be Bayern hunter/European top adress, but rather focus on developing talent and selling them on to the big ones. Tuchel on the other hand wants to win titles.

He has a point there. This already caused tensions start of the season when tuchel wanted experience in the squad after losing Weidenfeller, Kehl and Hummels, and got a bag ful of teenagers, which never really went away. I can see him leaving for a club with deeper pockets. If Bayern doesn't take him on (unlikely at the moment, maybe Wolfsburg? or some non-german team.

- While Ancelotti profits a big deal from Peps work (and the others before him), he is far more than the leader of the entertainment department. No one accused him of not being respected at any club he was and won titles. He has a gift to be compatible with all kind of tempers, and he knows how to blance the phsical load.

Reif also puts his money on Hoffenheims Nagelsmann for next Bayern coach.

That's an awful position for any manager. If there is any truth then I don't think Tuchel will be happy staying at Dortmund (maybe right time to move to Arsenal)

Why Dortmund want to go that route when they can grow and compete at highest level? Do they take so much pride in developing players for other teams than wining trophies?
 
That's an awful position for any manager. If there is any truth then I don't think Tuchel will be happy staying at Dortmund (maybe right time to move to Arsenal)

Why Dortmund want to go that route when they can grow and compete at highest level? Do they take so much pride in developing players for other teams than wining trophies?
That comment sounds a bit misleading in my opinion. I doubt Dortmund made a plan to sell players for profit or anything like that. They're simply in the position where they can't attract established players good enough to compete with the elite teams in Europe. There's no way for them to challenge Bayern unless they develop great talents themselves and hope they can convince them to stay for a while.

Tuchel got his wish with Schürrle for example, who isn't any better than Dembele even though Schürrle should be in his prime and Dembele is a few years away from it. Of course it's frustrating for the manager compared to the few elite clubs in Europe. And maybe you can argue that Dortmund should have signed one or two experienced players like they tried with Toprak at centerback for example. But then, does anyone really believe that Toprak is the solution to a defense good enough to challenge Bayern in the league and win titles? I still think Dortmund should have tried everything to sign Süle and build a defense around him and Sokratis.
 
That comment sounds a bit misleading in my opinion. I doubt Dortmund made a plan to sell players for profit or anything like that. They're simply in the position where they can't attract established players good enough to compete with the elite teams in Europe. There's no way for them to challenge Bayern unless they develop great talents themselves and hope they can convince them to stay for a while.

Tuchel got his wish with Schürrle for example, who isn't any better than Dembele even though Schürrle should be in his prime and Dembele is a few years away from it. Of course it's frustrating for the manager compared to the few elite clubs in Europe. And maybe you can argue that Dortmund should have signed one or two experienced players like they tried with Toprak at centerback for example. But then, does anyone really believe that Toprak is the solution to a defense good enough to challenge Bayern in the league and win titles? I still think Dortmund should have tried everything to sign Süle and build a defense around him and Sokratis.

If they can't keep the talented players they develop then it's not a good plan IMO. Yeah signing experienced players doesn't guarantee good results but at least they should keep hold of their developed youngsters. The moment they lose players like Dembele (after developing him) it's a big set back and 2-3 wasted years developing him.

I don't know what's that interview meant as you said it's misleading but if a team can't retain it's players then ambitious managers would be tempted to go for other clubs who can offer stability.
 
You need £ to keep those players. Dortmund right now don't have the financial muscle to do so. The idea is to keep attracting these players, develop them, keep being competitive/attractive, play in europe, grow financially and eventually be rich enough that when the young star comes in with a huge offer from bayern/madrid/united, they can match it and keep him
 
If they can't keep the talented players they develop then it's not a good plan IMO. Yeah signing experienced players doesn't guarantee good results but at least they should keep hold of their developed youngsters. The moment they lose players like Dembele (after developing him) it's a big set back and 2-3 wasted years developing him.

I don't know what's that interview meant as you said it's misleading but if a team can't retain it's players then ambitious managers would be tempted to go for other clubs who can offer stability.

Oh it's that "why don't they just force players to sign contracts" argument again. I feel like that comes up every half year. That being said Dembele is already a more than adequate replacement for Mkhitaryan, in some ways (having balls) even better already, so no one will even dream of thinking of calling his development wasted years should he be sold for silly money a few years down the line.

Tuchel knew what he was getting into when he signed the contract, infact Mkhitaryan and Gündogan already had one foot out the door back then. So it's not like this is some sudden realization for him, especially since I very much doubt that there weren't strategical discussions before he joined.

I think a big problem is actually that Tuchel is really bad at dealing with the media. Not just compared to Klopp, but in general he doesn't seem to be considering the consequences when he talks about what bothers him.
This case is another example for it: of course it's frustrating to lose three important players in one summer, any coach would feel like that, but the way he expressed that still gives ammunition to the press months later and it'll probably stay that way until he extends his contract.
 
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If they can't keep the talented players they develop then it's not a good plan IMO. Yeah signing experienced players doesn't guarantee good results but at least they should keep hold of their developed youngsters. The moment they lose players like Dembele (after developing him) it's a big set back and 2-3 wasted years developing him.

I don't know what's that interview meant as you said it's misleading but if a team can't retain it's players then ambitious managers would be tempted to go for other clubs who can offer stability.
Well, it's not really 2-3 years wasted if they get better performances out of the developing talents than they get from established players. And there's a good chance they make a profit on top of that. Ideally you would hope they might stay and some might actually do that, but realistically the financial gap between clubs like Real, Barca, United, Bayern and Dortmund is too big to expect Dortmund's best players to stay if they're successful. They bought Mkhitaryan as a kinda established player and still were forced to sell him 3 years later after inconsistent performances. So you can't really argue that this is a better way.

If Tuchel is already frustrated that he's losing players every year, then he really needs to hope one of the elite teams offers him the job.
 
Oh it's that "why don't they just force players to sign contracts" argument again. I feel like that comes up every half year. That being said Dembele is already a more than adequate replacement for Mkhitaryan, in some ways (having balls) even better already, so no one will even dream of thinking of calling his development wasted years should he be sold for silly money a few years down the line.

Tuchel knew what he was getting into when he signed the contract, infact Mkhitaryan and Gündogan already had one foot out the door back then. So it's not like this is some sudden realization for him, especially since I very much doubt that there weren't strategical discussions before he signed the contract.

Not sure about your first point. My point was in line with the model that was discussed in the interview, not running down players contract which Dortmund are very good at.

What I meant with "wasted years" is had we sold Ronaldo right after 2006 world cup I would have said wasted years. All the time and effort in developing a player but goes on to play his best years for someone else without winning anything with the parent club.

There wasn't any rumor of Mkhitaryan not signing contract when Tuchel took over, it became news only in the month of March or April. Gundogan's was obvious case. Tuchel knew what he was getting into, that doesn't mean he can't change his mind if Dortmund continue to lose players.
 
If they can't keep the talented players they develop then it's not a good plan IMO. Yeah signing experienced players doesn't guarantee good results but at least they should keep hold of their developed youngsters. The moment they lose players like Dembele (after developing him) it's a big set back and 2-3 wasted years developing him.

I don't know what's that interview meant as you said it's misleading but if a team can't retain it's players then ambitious managers would be tempted to go for other clubs who can offer stability.

No club can keep their very top talented players, whether they developed them or bought them young, except the very biggest and richest clubs. Dortmund got Dembélé early and cheap because he knew he could get game time there, and the environment to develop further. They also only got him last summer, so it's not like they nurtured him from when he was a baby.
Nothing about this is rocket science. If a player explodes like Dembélé, clubs come calling for him with which BVB simply cannot compete financially.
As has been pointed out above by @Balu and @giorno , this is the simple reality of the football market.
For clubs smaller than BVB the problem is obviously much more virulent, they never can keep top players anyway. BVB are simply on the threshold, they have the exposure and expectation of an elite club so people like yourself 'demand' they should keep their top players, yet the financial situation simply does not make it possible, or at least very tricky.
For example, they might need to produce a surplus of footballing prestige to convince players to stay a while in face of financially better offers. That's what they've been doing- Dembélé surely is happy with the way things are going at BVB, so he'll stay a couple of years even if money is being thrown at him already right now. Their reputation and football makes it possible to attract top talents, but it won't keep them forever.
It's not that uncomfortable of a situation, really. At least they are attracting top talents. That's not a given.
 
Well, it's not really 2-3 years wasted if they get better performances out of the developing talents than they get from established players. And there's a good chance they make a profit on top of that. Ideally you would hope they might stay and some might actually do that, but realistically the financial gap between clubs like Real, Barca, United, Bayern and Dortmund is too big to expect Dortmund's best players to stay if they're successful. They bought Mkhitaryan as a kinda established player and still were forced to sell him 3 years later after inconsistent performances. So you can't really argue that this is a better way.

If Tuchel is already frustrated that he's losing players every year, then he really needs to hope one of the elite teams offers him the job.

I have mentioned in my other post what I meant with "wasted years".

IIRC Dortmund have higher revenue than Atletico Madrid, Tottenham but we don't see Spurs losing players to other clubs so easily. In fact buying clubs hate doing business with Spurs and there is a good similarity between these 2 clubs.

Tbh I feel if what was said in the interview is correct then I think Tuchel will leave when teams with bigger financial muscle wants him.
 
No club can keep their very top talented players, whether they developed them or bought them young, except the very biggest and richest clubs. Dortmund got Dembélé early and cheap because he knew he could get game time there, and the environment to develop further. They also only got him last summer, so it's not like they nurtured him from when he was a baby.
Nothing about this is rocket science. If a player explodes like Dembélé, clubs come calling for him with which BVB simply cannot compete financially.
As has been pointed out above by @Balu and @giorno , this is the simple reality of the football market.
For clubs smaller than BVB the problem is obviously much more virulent, they never can keep top players anyway. BVB are simply on the threshold, they have the exposure and expectation of an elite club so people like yourself 'demand' they should keep their top players, yet the financial situation simply does not make it possible, or at least very tricky.
For example, they might need to produce a surplus of footballing prestige to convince players to stay a while in face of financially better offers. That's what they've been doing- Dembélé surely is happy with the way things are going at BVB, so he'll stay a couple of years even if money is being thrown at him already right now. Their reputation and football makes it possible to attract top talents, but it won't keep them forever.
It's not that uncomfortable of a situation, really. At least they are attracting top talents. That's not a given.

I said if this is the model they want to follow then ambitious manager might want to leave, nothing critical about Dortmund's management which I have already covered in many of my older posts.

Also like I said, this isn't much different from Spurs and Dortmund have higher revenue than Spurs. How often you see Spurs losing players?
 
I said if this is the model they want to follow then ambitious manager might want to leave, nothing critical about Dortmund's management which I have already covered in many of my older posts.

Also like I said, this isn't much different from Spurs and Dortmund have higher revenue than Spurs. How often you see Spurs losing players?
And how often do you see Dortmund getting kicked out of CL by Leverkusen and out of EL by Gent/k ? So why is this a meaningful reference? And the last time Spurs produced a superstar, he was gone after his breakout season.

About the 'ambition' of managers, sure, if it's a deal breaker for Tuchel to have his club sell top players, then he should resign and wait for the opening at Barca, Real, Bayern, or one of the big English clubs.
That sounds a bit entitled though for a manager who has not won anything yet, and I don't really believe that Tuchel isn't aware of the realities at his club and that he doesn't accept them.
 
I have mentioned in my other post what I meant with "wasted years".

IIRC Dortmund have higher revenue than Atletico Madrid, Tottenham but we don't see Spurs losing players to other clubs so easily. In fact buying clubs hate doing business with Spurs and there is a good similarity between these 2 clubs.

Tbh I feel if what was said in the interview is correct then I think Tuchel will leave when teams with bigger financial muscle wants him.

Your "wasted" argument is like saying winning €1m in the lottery is bad because it could've been €5m. Dortmund got plenty of mileage and a decent profit out of the players they sold, except for Mkhitaryan maybe.
Atletico have a lot of succcess on the pitch to show for and Simeone, who seems to have a special hold on his players, yet they had to sell plenty of players over the past few years.
Spurs have the luxury of not having many top class players. Which of theirs would be comparable to someone like Gündogan, Hummels, Mkhitaryan? Kane and Alli? Both are still young and have plenty of time, we'll see about them in a couple of years, besides it's not like Dortmund haven't been able to hold onto players too, like Aubameyang, Reus, Weigl, Hummels (stayed for 8 years), Pulisic and to a lesser extend (in terms of reputation) Piszczek and Sokratis.


Regarding the earlier post: http://www.goal.com/en/news/1717/ed...ventus-really-hope-to-sign-henrikh-mkhitaryan
There was a lot of paper talk about Mkhitaryan trying his luck elsewhere because his final season under Klopp was so terrible.


I think the whole premise of that Reif interview is stupid. Bayern have twice the turnover of Dortmund and they are easily one of the best run top clubs in Europe, so it's hardly rocket science that Dortmund can't expect to outright challenge them and instead tries to improve step by step and be ready when Bayern slip up.
 
Also like I said, this isn't much different from Spurs and Dortmund have higher revenue than Spurs. How often you see Spurs losing players?
The Spurs comparison is a bit silly to be honest. Dortmund had quite a few elite players who excelled in CL knockout stages and/or at international tournaments and still have kept quality players for longer than the two seasons where this Spurs side now has played on a good level in the league without showing the same quality outside of it.
 
And how often do you see Dortmund getting kicked out of CL by Leverkusen and out of EL by Gent/k ? So why is this a meaningful reference? And the last time Spurs produced a superstar, he was gone after his breakout season.

I saw them getting kicked out by Liverpool last season, does that count?

Spurs and Dortmund have comparable resources, revenue.


Your "wasted" argument is like saying winning €1m in the lottery is bad because it could've been €5m. Dortmund got plenty of mileage and a decent profit out of the players they sold, except for Mkhitaryan maybe.
Atletico have a lot of succcess on the pitch to show for and Simeone, who seems to have a special hold on his players, yet they had to sell plenty of players over the past few years.
Spurs have the luxury of not having many top class players. Which of theirs would be comparable to someone like Gündogan, Hummels, Mkhitaryan? Kane and Alli? Both are still young and have plenty of time, we'll see about them in a couple of years, besides it's not like Dortmund haven't been able to hold onto players too, like Aubameyang, Reus, Weigl, Hummels (stayed for 8 years), Pulisic and to a lesser extend (in terms of reputation) Piszczek and Sokratis.


Regarding the earlier post: http://www.goal.com/en/news/1717/ed...ventus-really-hope-to-sign-henrikh-mkhitaryan
There was a lot of paper talk about Mkhitaryan trying his luck elsewhere because his final season under Klopp was so terrible.


I think the whole premise of that Reif interview is stupid. Bayern have twice the turnover of Dortmund and they are easily one of the best run top clubs in Europe, so it's hardly rocket science that Dortmund can't expect to outright challenge them and instead tries to improve step by step and be ready when Bayern slip up.

Your lottery thing makes no sense. If the ambition is to make money by selling top players then Dortmund are doing superb job. Spurs have excellent first team and they did excellent job of extending all their contracts.

Not sure what's the point of naming all the players you retained, of course no team will lose it's entire squad. Also Weigl, Pulisic are young players, will see where they will be playing when they are fully developed.

Also Dortmund fans said Mkhitaryan said all the season that he is extending contract and they were sure of it, only in mid March or something he decided against it, so using goal.com site or just journalists guess work isn't going to help.

The Spurs comparison is a bit silly to be honest. Dortmund had quite a few elite players who excelled in CL knockout stages and/or at international tournaments and still have kept quality players for longer than the two seasons where this Spurs side now has played on a good level in the league without showing the same quality outside of it.

Spurs comparison is not silly. They have similar structure (signing young players) and similar revenues.

Regarding retaining players, Spurs have few excellent players and they have retained them. They haven't done well in CL KOs but neither did Modric and Bale before moving to Madrid.

I'm comparing with Spurs for obvious reasons. They have similar revenues and one team isn't losing players, not because they lack excellent players but because teams don't want to deal with them as Levy will take them for ride.
 
Spurs had two players that were good enough for a top club, they sold both. They are not losing as much players as Dortmund to the elite clubs because their players aren't as good. Who knows how long alli and kane will stay.
 
Spurs had two players that were good enough for a top club, they sold both. They are not losing as much players as Dortmund to the elite clubs because their players aren't as good. Who knows how long alli and kane will stay.

Dortmund couldn't retain Kagawa and Kagawa wouldn't make first team of Spurs. It's not just superstars or nothing.

For example, Dortmund lost Mkhitaryan, Spurs have Eriksen who did better than Mkhitaryan in last few years with the exception of last year.

When Spurs had Modric, how many people thought he was the best CM in the world or going to be the best CM in the world? Some people don't rate players unless they play for top 2-3 clubs.
 
Dortmund couldn't retain Kagawa and Kagawa wouldn't make first team of Spurs. It's not just superstars or nothing.

For example, Dortmund lost Mkhitaryan, Spurs have Eriksen who did better than Mkhitaryan in last few years with the exception of last year.

When Spurs had Modric, how many people thought he was the best CM in the world or going to be the best CM in the world? Some people don't rate players unless they play for top 2-3 clubs.

I think you really should take into account were Dortmund came from, where in 2013 and how much they and their revenue since then developed.
 
I saw them getting kicked out by Liverpool last season, does that count?

Spurs and Dortmund have comparable resources, revenue.




Your lottery thing makes no sense. If the ambition is to make money by selling top players then Dortmund are doing superb job. Spurs have excellent first team and they did excellent job of extending all their contracts.

Not sure what's the point of naming all the players you retained, of course no team will lose it's entire squad. Also Weigl, Pulisic are young players, will see where they will be playing when they are fully developed.

Also Dortmund fans said Mkhitaryan said all the season that he is extending contract and they were sure of it, only in mid March or something he decided against it, so using goal.com site or just journalists guess work isn't going to help.



Spurs comparison is not silly. They have similar structure (signing young players) and similar revenues.

Regarding retaining players, Spurs have few excellent players and they have retained them. They haven't done well in CL KOs but neither did Modric and Bale before moving to Madrid.

I'm comparing with Spurs for obvious reasons. They have similar revenues and one team isn't losing players, not because they lack excellent players but because teams don't want to deal with them as Levy will take them for ride.

My point would be that Spurs, on the whole, are not doing better than Dortmund, so why would Spurs serve to pose as some model for BVB to aspire to?

The other thing, of course, is that all the cases of top players leaving BVB in recent years, those players wanted to leave and had only one year of contract left. Players are only 'your' players as long as they are contracted, so if a player doesn't renew there's nothing the club can do.
Then the decision is merely whether to cash in on a player you're sure to lose one year later, or force the player to see out his contract. In Lewandowski's case, they chose the force option, in others, they decided to cash in. Both Hummels and Mkhi brought them pretty big fees for players with only one year left.

Another decision is how to reinvest - big fees (and wages!) for established players as replacement, or spread it out into top talents? As @Balu pointed out above, BVB have not had the greatest experiences with the more expensive high profile replacements, let's not forget Mkhitaryan, who was the club record signing as Götze 'replacement', had only one great season out of three, with the first bbeing mediocre and the second catastrophic. Immobile, who was expensive too joining as Serie A top goalscorer, didn't work out either.
Götze and Schürrle, both big money signings, surely turned out worse than Dembele and Guerreiro.

I really don't get what glaring flaws of club management you can detect in all of that.

Again, Spurs may have a slightly different approach, more impermeable and hard-nosed towards letting players leave, but then they still don't have a better team than BVB as a result, do they? So what?
And Atletico, the other example you cited, kept selling stars constantly after successful seasons, Aguero, De Gea, Falcao, Luis, Costa, Turan. If Griezmann leaves in summer, or next summer, he will have been at Atletico for 2, or 3, seasons. Three wasted years for Atletico then? Makes no sense to argue that.
 
Dortmund couldn't retain Kagawa and Kagawa wouldn't make first team of Spurs. It's not just superstars or nothing.

For example, Dortmund lost Mkhitaryan, Spurs have Eriksen who did better than Mkhitaryan in last few years with the exception of last year.

When Spurs had Modric, how many people thought he was the best CM in the world or going to be the best CM in the world? Some people don't rate players unless they play for top 2-3 clubs.
Kagawa would have made first team at spurs at that time if he had performed as he did at Dortmund. You're kind of explaining the Mkhitaryan transfer yourself.
Modric was an obvious one. He was class and it was plain obvious how good he is and will be already at Spurs. I remember a german Utd supporter on a german forum who wanted SAF to sign Modric for years before he moved to Real. He was deeply disappointed when he moved to spain considering the state the Utd CM was in.

You explained the Mkhitaryan move yourself. He had one very good year after which he only had one year left on his contract. Dortmund wouldn't have cared about losing him before that season and afterwards it was already too late for a contract extension because he was set on moving.
 
They tripled their revenue the past 5 years. When Kagawa signed, Dortmund just overcame a existential financial crisis and had a revenue of around 100m €, he was paid accordingly. As did other players from this time, which only joined Dortmund in some cases when they got a release clause guaranteed because wages where so low. How's that comparable to Spurs, at all? It's not. When have you started watching football, 2 years ago?
 
I think you really should take into account were Dortmund came from, where in 2013 and how much they and their revenue since then developed.
My point would be that Spurs, on the whole, are not doing better than Dortmund, so why would Spurs serve to pose as some model for BVB to aspire to?

@fcbforever Spurs and Dortmund had similar revenus in 2013 and in 2016.

@Cristiano Lell I think there is a misunderstanding. I didn't say Dortmund should copy Spurs, I'm asking since Spurs have same revenues and wage structure, how come they are able to retain their players and Dortmund can't. Spurs have extended all the contracts this season and are in excellent position when it comes to selling players now.
 
@fcbforever Spurs and Dortmund had similar revenus in 2013 and in 2016.

@Cristiano Lell I think there is a misunderstanding. I didn't say Dortmund should copy Spurs, I'm asking since Spurs have same revenues and wage structure, how come they are able to retain their players and Dortmund can't. Spurs have extended all the contracts this season and are in excellent position when it comes to selling players now.

Again, have you only been following football for 3 years or what? They are comparable in revenue now, yes. But their development is extremely different, as I just explained to you. In 2013, they only had a comparable revenue because of reaching the final, which pretty much doubled their revenue from the previous year. Just a few years before, they nearly got relegated because of bankruptcy.
Apples and oranges my friend. Not that difficult to understand unless you actively try not to.
 
Kagawa would have made first team at spurs at that time if he had performed as he did at Dortmund. You're kind of explaining the Mkhitaryan transfer yourself.
Modric was an obvious one. He was class and it was plain obvious how good he is and will be already at Spurs. I remember a german Utd supporter on a german forum who wanted SAF to sign Modric for years before he moved to Real. He was deeply disappointed when he moved to spain considering the state the Utd CM was in.

What? That Dortmund couldn't hold Mkhitaryan and the player who did well like Eriksen was retained by Spurs?

Modric was the obvious one? Like the other Spurs players will become obvious ones if they move bigger clubs?
 
What? That Dortmund couldn't hold Mkhitaryan and the player who did well like Eriksen was retained by Spurs?

Modric was the obvious one? Like the other Spurs players will become obvious ones if they move bigger clubs?

Spurs now =|= Dortmund 2010-2014.
Just look at the blue graph. How's that comparable to Spurs. Until rather recently, they had also a ton of debt to pay off, which severely limited their freedom of decisions. Do you really don't know that?
 
What? That Dortmund couldn't hold Mkhitaryan and the player who did well like Eriksen was retained by Spurs?

Modric was the obvious one? Like the other Spurs players will become obvious ones if they move bigger clubs?
They could have extended Mkhitaryans contract earlier but there was no need for that because he wasn't performing. When he started to perform his contract was basically already running out.

No because the other Spurs players aren't good enough for top clubs, or at least most of them.
 
Again, have you only been following football for 3 years or what? They are comparable in revenue now, yes. But their development is extremely different, as I just explained to you. In 2013, they only had a comparable revenue because of reaching the final, which pretty much doubled their revenue from the previous year. Just a few years before, they nearly got relegated because of bankruptcy.
Apples and oranges my friend. Not that difficult to understand unless you actively try not to.

Dude relax, I know how Dortmund nearly went bankrupt and how they survived and made it big. Save your lecture to someone else and stop with your nonsense 2 year and 3 year thing.

Go and check their revenues. Spurs had revenue of around 140 Million pounds in 2011-12, Dortmund's revenue was 191 Million Euros. You don't even have to consider their CL finals season, season before that they had comparable revenue.
 
Spurs now =|= Dortmund 2010-2014.
Just look at the blue graph. How's that comparable to Spurs. Until rather recently, they had also a ton of debt to pay off, which severely limited their freedom of decisions. Do you really don't know that?

Who said Spurs now = Dortmund 2010-14?

They could have extended Mkhitaryans contract earlier but there was no need for that because he wasn't performing. When he started to perform his contract was basically already running out.

No because the other Spurs players aren't good enough for top clubs, or at least most of them.

Like I said there will be lot of rewriting history when they are sold to bigger clubs, just like how Modric's was after his Euro performance.
 
Dude relax, I know how Dortmund nearly went bankrupt and how they survived and made it big. Save your lecture to someone else and stop with your nonsense 2 year and 3 year thing.

Go and check their revenues. Spurs had revenue of around 140 Million pounds, Dortmund's revenue was 191 Million Euros. You don't even have to consider their CL finals season, season before that they had comparable revenue.
The season before they had only 2/3 of that revenue. Just showed you the statistic....also, wasn't that exactly the time Spurs sold Bale and Modric? What's your point here? I really don't get it. Dortmund only had paid off their debt in 2015 by the way, until then it ate up a considerable share of their revenue.