I'm looking forward to seeing him next season. Ten Hag absolutely won't let us go into next season with McFred as his first choice double pivot - he'll bring someone in who can help build play from deep. That will keep Bruno where he's best and we'll look better for it.
Bruno Fernandes | New contract until 2027
- Thread starter Samid
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I think it’s a bit simplistic and just hopeful to take this position of ‘now he has a good coach, it will be alright’. He lacks a lot of technical and physical abilities. Not sure where Ten Hag is going to find that from. Take his wild swing yesterday that led to Palace’s goal. It’s one thing for coaches to tell him to play it simpler, but it’s another thing to have the ability to do it. The alternative to him attempting a first time pass in that occasion was to get the ball down, under relative pressure in the centre of midfield, and find a pass - a pass that may not even be staring him in the face once he manages to get the ball down. He might have to first engage the first midfielder who has come to press him, hold him off either with some strength, or move the ball to keep it out of reach and only then play the pass. All of which he cannot do.
So I don’t see how Ten Hag changes that incident for example. It’s not the first time Bruno has played passes like that. The one that led to Watford’s penalty was the same. And there would have been others that were successfully completed. More to the point is the reason for playing such passes, and to me, it’s down to a fear and inability of having to take the ball under any sort of pressure and keep it. This is not a coaching issue, and to me, it’s clear as day. He’s not an idiot. Of course his problems this season can’t be fixed by a coach just telling him ‘don’t be so wasteful with the ball Bruno’, as if it’s that simple. He’s not a good midfielder, he can’t do the basics of a 90 minute midfield shift, he can do the highlights of a 90 min midfield shift. But the boring regular churn of getting the ball over and over, turning away from players, holding off players, retaining possession etc - he cannot do. He’s 27 and never shown himself capable to do it, and Ten Hag will be able to do nothing about that. Given space, or given a run he can hit first time - the man is capable of things nobody else in our current squad is. However, any action he cannot complete in the first two or three seconds is usually done at a low standard (or ends with him on the floor), and the successful actions he, or any other player, can complete within the first two seconds will always have a low probability.
He won’t be sold this summer, for a number of reasons, but he should be. This is not knee-jerk, he’s simply not a good enough footballer for a team that wants to play a high level of football, and I couldn’t care less what the calculator says - ultimately, we end up falling short anyway. If we are going to become a team on the level of the other two, there is no place for him. Palace were just roughing him up and taking the ball from him easily yesterday, and that will increase the more opponents stop looking at him with any fear and respect. He’s been propped up as some world-class player but he really isn’t. People love a hero and saviour in English football, and Sky went way overboard in his early days and were bewitched by numbers instead of watching actual games. For example, during his early months, pundits were constantly making comparisons to ‘another #18 who used to wear that shirt’, when he is nothing like Paul Scholes in either style or quality. Commentators also described a loose pass as him as some sort of rarity every single game when it was anything but. This whole ‘carrying the team’ narrative was born at the same time, but this time of reckoning was always going to come, because once the tabloid-style analysis stopped people would start seeing what was actually happening out there.
So I don’t see how Ten Hag changes that incident for example. It’s not the first time Bruno has played passes like that. The one that led to Watford’s penalty was the same. And there would have been others that were successfully completed. More to the point is the reason for playing such passes, and to me, it’s down to a fear and inability of having to take the ball under any sort of pressure and keep it. This is not a coaching issue, and to me, it’s clear as day. He’s not an idiot. Of course his problems this season can’t be fixed by a coach just telling him ‘don’t be so wasteful with the ball Bruno’, as if it’s that simple. He’s not a good midfielder, he can’t do the basics of a 90 minute midfield shift, he can do the highlights of a 90 min midfield shift. But the boring regular churn of getting the ball over and over, turning away from players, holding off players, retaining possession etc - he cannot do. He’s 27 and never shown himself capable to do it, and Ten Hag will be able to do nothing about that. Given space, or given a run he can hit first time - the man is capable of things nobody else in our current squad is. However, any action he cannot complete in the first two or three seconds is usually done at a low standard (or ends with him on the floor), and the successful actions he, or any other player, can complete within the first two seconds will always have a low probability.
He won’t be sold this summer, for a number of reasons, but he should be. This is not knee-jerk, he’s simply not a good enough footballer for a team that wants to play a high level of football, and I couldn’t care less what the calculator says - ultimately, we end up falling short anyway. If we are going to become a team on the level of the other two, there is no place for him. Palace were just roughing him up and taking the ball from him easily yesterday, and that will increase the more opponents stop looking at him with any fear and respect. He’s been propped up as some world-class player but he really isn’t. People love a hero and saviour in English football, and Sky went way overboard in his early days and were bewitched by numbers instead of watching actual games. For example, during his early months, pundits were constantly making comparisons to ‘another #18 who used to wear that shirt’, when he is nothing like Paul Scholes in either style or quality. Commentators also described a loose pass as him as some sort of rarity every single game when it was anything but. This whole ‘carrying the team’ narrative was born at the same time, but this time of reckoning was always going to come, because once the tabloid-style analysis stopped people would start seeing what was actually happening out there.
For attacking mid, his technique is not awful at all.
He’s proven his productivity in the Prem which should up his value from Sporting, I just think 10s who lose the ball a lot aren’t that desired anymore by top top clubs.
Yeah, Bruno on the left and sancho right with VDB, Fred and a new 6 (no idea who since I think tchouameni will turn us down).
Then the rest of the window in addition to the 6 is a new striker to split time with cristiano (David my guess) and take over next year, as well as Timber and a left footed defender (Torres my guess) and maybe a cheaper young player ten hag likes.
That’s 5 signings for maybe 180M or so and we hope Fred and the left backs can do a job until they’re replaced next summer, like guys like Schone, Klassen and Tagliafico did for ten hag at Ajax until they were replaced.
Yeah sounds nice and all but with that, we'd have ...... @NoPace
At this point I think everyone would agree he is only good when his team is playing counter attack football letting him to try every Hollywood pass without worrying much about adding nothing to build up play or losing possession.
In short, he is perfect player for Ole’s counter attack system which relies heavily on solo play. But he would be detrimental to other top teams with good structure which focus more on possession football.
In short, he is perfect player for Ole’s counter attack system which relies heavily on solo play. But he would be detrimental to other top teams with good structure which focus more on possession football.
Did you see him playing for possession based team? Or did we hire any manager who focused on retaining possession?
I don't know how you concluded that when we haven't hired any coach who plays possession game.
It all depends on what our main attacking threat is.
Is our main attack going to be about a wide goal scoring cohesive front 3?
Or is it going to be about a Goalscoring Number 9 with our attacking duty to set the striker up?
For Me, you don’t play Bruno trying to set up a Number 9 - he becomes easier to read as the main goalscoring threat is obvious. The passes to wingers are to deeper creative wingers that are trying to set up the striker aswell rather than inverted forwards. Bruno ends up losing the ball much more trying to be creative passing to deeper players.
When Bruno plays with inverted forwards - 3 cohesive strikers, he tends to have more speedy players trying to get in behind the defense and his creative passing has more players to target. He ends up losing the ball less.
I wonder if Ten Hag’s front 3 will be about getting the best out of a central striker - or about getting the best out of a whole wide attack.
Is our main attack going to be about a wide goal scoring cohesive front 3?
Or is it going to be about a Goalscoring Number 9 with our attacking duty to set the striker up?
For Me, you don’t play Bruno trying to set up a Number 9 - he becomes easier to read as the main goalscoring threat is obvious. The passes to wingers are to deeper creative wingers that are trying to set up the striker aswell rather than inverted forwards. Bruno ends up losing the ball much more trying to be creative passing to deeper players.
When Bruno plays with inverted forwards - 3 cohesive strikers, he tends to have more speedy players trying to get in behind the defense and his creative passing has more players to target. He ends up losing the ball less.
I wonder if Ten Hag’s front 3 will be about getting the best out of a central striker - or about getting the best out of a whole wide attack.
Walked (not ran) into that one, but Ajax have little pace outside of Antony and their CBs and Antony doesn’t really run in behind anyways.
Bruno's going to be fine. Expecting him to score 15+ goals next season again.
No but it’s not hard to know, the way he keep losing possession like no tomorrow…
There are many players who lost possession many times and ended up playing in possession based football.
I don’t agree. It’s easy to see if you watched him play. He took many risk on Hollywood pass rather than build up play, and its always part of his game.
If you watched him play? All these days I thought I was watching ManUtd play
"It's easy to see," "it's not hard to understand" and you are making simple mistake that coach doesn't matter and player plays same way no matter what.
The thing is, you are arguing like anyone could have played possession football, given the right coaching. I just don’t think so.If you watched him play? All these days I thought I was watching ManUtd play
"It's easy to see," "it's not hard to understand" and you are making simple mistake that coach doesn't matter and player plays same way no matter what.
You are arguing opposite, that coach doesn't matter and players plays same way no matter what.
That is because I’ve watched many of these players playing under 3 different managers over past few years, I just don’t see they could be coached with things they are not familiar with. They are not exactly young players who could be coached to play differently.
How many of them were possession managers and how many of them played counter attacking football?
Who was the possession based manager he played under and failed to impress?
Coaches won't be coaching them how to pass, it's tactical adjustments. He won't be teaching players how to kick the ball and where to hit the ball. It's not coincidence most players ball retention ability improves when they play under managers who controls the game.
Real question is have you watched them play? One looks elite the other looks like a fraud.
Still waiting for him to turn up in a big game.
So say I am a footballer with poor passing ability. Are you telling me if I play under Pep I miraculously pass better because of his system?
Do I also become Messi if he gives me the same instructions he gave Messi?
I don’t think that’s the case. Of course you could argue all day as there’s no way to prove or disprove, but players like Mctominay or Bruno wouldn’t suddenly become Busquets or Iniesta and play perfect tiki taka just because they have been suddenly coached to do so. It has to do with alot of things such as their own ability/playing style rather than just coaching instruction.
You don't need Busquets or Iniesta, or even need to play perfect tiki taka. Otherwise KdB would have been sent packing to Belgium after first training session and Ziyech would have been asked to sit in dressing room. Players are allowed to take risks, you control the volume of it and the moments you take the risks. Right now first thought is to take the risk and that should change when we have to control the game.
You play as a team, control the game, create chances and when you lose the ball press and win the ball.
Bruno has enough ability to be coached
Raheem Sterling. No need for the silly comment about Messi. The best coaches can make average players look like very good ones.
Who golden boy at 18? Pinched by Liverpool from QPR? Signed for City for £50m. That guy?
What was Bruno’s path into football again?
There natural footballing abilities are non comparable.
Which brings us back to coaching.
This thread is turning like Pogba's.
Either he is world class or championship level player..
The season is over..
Let's see what happens in terms of signings and pre-season and all that.
Either he is world class or championship level player..
The season is over..
Let's see what happens in terms of signings and pre-season and all that.
Many people called he would turn into a Pogba like figure when he signed.
Yes the one with obvious technical flaws which were improved by coaching at City
Of course. But bottom line is, I don’t think Bruno has the right skillset and mentality to play his part in the team to play control football, especially when AM position has big role to play in building up attack.
He never done that in his career, of course you will then argue he has never been “instructed or coached” to do so, but he has always been a high risk taker and tendency to easily loss a lot of possession even during his days in Sporting. There no evidence to suggest he could do it in control possession football, so you are purely on wishful thinking here.
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I don't think my view are wishful thinking, more like yours are just ignorant assuming player who played well in counter attacking system and risk taker can't play in possession based system when there are so many examples which contradicts that statement.
Go ahead and name all those possession based managers he played under, at Sporting and ManUtd.
People always come up with "he loses possession a lot", go and check who tops the possession lost stats, or used to top these stats (Hint - it's always KdB and Trent Arnold). Losing possession is not death of possession game, taking too many risks is but that's tactical adjustments.
You don’t have to go full generalize on this. I am sure soome players could play both system. But we also need to look at their traits as clues. Bruno simply doesn’t possessed the traits necessary for him to become successful in this system. At this stage It’s all speculative of course as he has never been proven “failure” in system he never played either, but base on his traits I just don’t think he could.
I think finally we have a manager who will concentrate on the team rather than individuals.
If Bruno thinks he is above that and plays his own game mid way of the game, I have no doubt that ETH will drop him and call him out.
Its now up to the players to show they are capable of playing under a elite coach.
If Bruno thinks he is above that and plays his own game mid way of the game, I have no doubt that ETH will drop him and call him out.
Its now up to the players to show they are capable of playing under a elite coach.
They didn’t improve his technical flaws they masked them. He can’t finish but managed to get amazing numbers.
He’s also been a great player at Liverpool. This isn’t Elanga we are talking about. Pep didn’t work a miracle. He was also England’s best player in the Euro’s. Did Pep improve him there too? Come on man.
He’s a fraud in the sense United fans think he’s a top tier player. He’s tier 3/2 with Jarred Bowen and guys like that.
I’m just confused to when such a low tier player has this much responsibility. We wouldn’t give this responsibility to Park Ji Sung. All I’m saying is we need a lot better than Bruno.
I think that Bruno will do whatever he is told by the manager and if he can't do it to the standard required then he will either be sold or ETH will adapt to it in the short term.
Hes one of the players in the side who I have very rarely thought lazy or nonplussed about playing for United. I have little worry about him in the short term.
Hes one of the players in the side who I have very rarely thought lazy or nonplussed about playing for United. I have little worry about him in the short term.
The real point is. He’s not Bruno Fernandes if he doesn’t play like this. People think he’ll play possession football and just be a better player. Your taking away what makes him the player he is.
It's apparent that Bruno should be in the team, but he needs better players (than him) around him.
For Portugal he always looks secondary to a lot of the team around him.
He needs to keep his head up more & move the ball quicker.
He has had some better moments recently with Portugal, but at United, he has been getting worse.
Fresh start next season.
For Portugal he always looks secondary to a lot of the team around him.
He needs to keep his head up more & move the ball quicker.
He has had some better moments recently with Portugal, but at United, he has been getting worse.
Fresh start next season.