Out of interest, how many other tier 2-3 players are there who have put up his numbers of goals, assists and chances created? Last season wasn't good but there wasn't anyone who had a good season by their own standards.
Bruno Fernandes | New contract until 2027
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Out of interest, how many other tier 2-3 players are there who have put up his numbers of goals, assists and chances created? Last season wasn't good but there wasn't anyone who had a good season by their own standards.
That is always the risk. He has always played more high risk/high reward football and when it comes off its great but when its not coming off he gives the ball away far too much. I still think there is a happy medium for him somewhere though.
A midfield of McFred WITHOUT Bruno! 
He is nowhere near perfect but my lord some of you have forgotten how uncreatuve of a team we were before we had Bruno Fernandes.
When we get that sorted then sure he can be bygone but its a bit rich complaining about him at the moment when is arguably our only creative asset.
At the same time people are making excuses of Jadon Sancho who they thought would rip it up and even how Mata has been mismanaged
He is nowhere near perfect but my lord some of you have forgotten how uncreatuve of a team we were before we had Bruno Fernandes.
When we get that sorted then sure he can be bygone but its a bit rich complaining about him at the moment when is arguably our only creative asset.
At the same time people are making excuses of Jadon Sancho who they thought would rip it up and even how Mata has been mismanaged
Don’t people get fed up of using this argument. It’s so redundant. Does Alan Shearer’s stats make him the best striker in the EPL.
All Bruno’s stats do is put him in conversations he shouldn’t be. I know we have a broken camp but do you even think the players he plays with think he’s our best player?
A midfield of McFred WITHOUT Bruno!
He is nowhere near perfect but my lord some of you have forgotten how uncreatuve of a team we were before we had Bruno Fernandes.
When we get that sorted then sure he can be bygone but its a bit rich complaining about him at the moment when is arguably our only creative asset.
At the same time people are making excuses of Jadon Sancho who they thought would rip it up and even how Mata has been mismanaged
McFred was created for Bruno. Don’t forget that. Put in place after we got touched by Spurs at home. There was no pre McFred before Bruno
The lies people tell.
Worst player we've ever had.
Am I doing it right?
Am I doing it right?
McFred was created for Bruno. Don’t forget that. Put in place after we got touched by Spurs at home. There was no pre McFred before Bruno
The lies people tell.
And when did i say anything about whEn or who mcfred was built for?
The fact is that this team had shit creativity without Bruno. our most creative player without Bruno in the team is Pogba - a player with his head somewhere else unable to play without a partner in Matic who is on the verge of retirement. Mcfred without Bruno would
be horrible. Thats all im saying.
No matter how shit you or I find Bruno - he is not a player we can exactly chuck in the bin because he is the most creative player we have.
The similair stats to de bryune no matter how different they are in quality of themselves and team mates - never mind his seasonal stats which are hardly poor but more his quality of performance were off - as was the whole team, even our POTYs.
Expected apologies off the charts.
He will have to adapt hard to 10H's football, no room to carry a Portuguese Steve Sidwell.
He will have to adapt hard to 10H's football, no room to carry a Portuguese Steve Sidwell.
Weirdly, I think it's sort of the opposite with Bruno.
I think he excels being the main-man/focal point of a team, it's when you see him around other top attacking players that his impact on the game decreases.
Bruno is a high-risk player who thrives in a system that permits him to take control/have free license to essentially try what he wants.
His best moments for us have come when we can stick a midfield 2 behind him with the legs and energy to have him try what he wants in possession.
When you try and fit him into a system that isn't tailored for counter-attacking individual play, he struggles.
Bruno needs hard-workers and runners around him to bring the best out of him, I don't think the likes of Sancho or Ronaldo naturally provide this.
This.
It’s that where will the goals come from arguement again though isn’t it. I don’t have the stats but I’m sure our goal output was fine the seasons before Bruno got here and will be fine after. Someone else will just create it’s like the strikers. Someone else will just score the goals. CR7 for instance this season has taken the majority of Bruno’s goals which most people would of seen coming.
The fact we give this guy free reign of the attacking third our creativity will change with our team winning the midfield battle more with him out of the team not doing his midfield duties.
Let’s wait and see. Futile over arguing it at this point because we cannot prove it. Some people will be entrenched on either side of the debate with no immediate resolution.
I agree with the poster above who said that while some people can play both counter and possession, others can’t. To me, it isn’t that hard to work out who will have the qualities to play it. Firstly, while we are a counter attacking team, every period of possession is not a fecking counter attack, so there is more than enough evidence over 3 years to be able to assess Bruno’s ability to keep and love the ball around. Claiming that we can only discern this once in a team officially stamped ‘possession team’ sounds a bit far-fetched to me. And ultimately, you can ask yourself the types of qualities required to keep possession at the highest of levels (i.e - at speed and under pressure). Not sure we personally need to wait and see, but I accept that we need to wait and see before this particular conversation can be agreed upon either way.
Jadon Sancho has played in two counter attacking teams I’d say at both Dortmund and United. I don’t think any real mystery is required to know if he has the capacity to fit into a pass-and-move possession team. That is because, regardless of the instructions, the ball is still the same round thing, and we can still see that he has certain qualities that allow him to retain the ball under pressure. Regarding Bruno, we can hope and wait and see, but I can’t say that I will not be highly surprised to see him suddenly start displaying qualities, both physical and technical, that he’s never really shown.
I agree with the poster above who said that while some people can play both counter and possession, others can’t. To me, it isn’t that hard to work out who will have the qualities to play it. Firstly, while we are a counter attacking team, every period of possession is not a fecking counter attack, so there is more than enough evidence over 3 years to be able to assess Bruno’s ability to keep and love the ball around. Claiming that we can only discern this once in a team officially stamped ‘possession team’ sounds a bit far-fetched to me. And ultimately, you can ask yourself the types of qualities required to keep possession at the highest of levels (i.e - at speed and under pressure). Not sure we personally need to wait and see, but I accept that we need to wait and see before this particular conversation can be agreed upon either way.
Jadon Sancho has played in two counter attacking teams I’d say at both Dortmund and United. I don’t think any real mystery is required to know if he has the capacity to fit into a pass-and-move possession team. That is because, regardless of the instructions, the ball is still the same round thing, and we can still see that he has certain qualities that allow him to retain the ball under pressure. Regarding Bruno, we can hope and wait and see, but I can’t say that I will not be highly surprised to see him suddenly start displaying qualities, both physical and technical, that he’s never really shown.
Wonder how his wife handles him when he starts pointing fingers at every object in the house for not being in the correct positions.
Yes, it makes him one of the best strikers in Premier League history. As a pure out and out striker there are few better.
Yes, I imagine quite a few of them do. These aren't stats like "how many passes he made" or the more wafty ones. They are probably the most important ones that are hard to argue with. Goals, chances created and assists. Literally the 3 best metrics to assess an attacking players output. Perhaps there is a reason people keeping banging this drum eh...
I'd like to see him as a playmaking winger on LW. He has the eye for a pass, he has a shot and also energy to bombard the opposition for 90 minutes. I'd like to see him efficient in ETH system, but he lacks sth to become a team superstar - he seems to give up too quickly and throwing tantrums when he should be focusing on channeling the energy into becoming a better player.
It's 50-50 that he'll succeed in United. Sort of think that we should have sold him after last season - we would have got around 100 mil for him.
It's 50-50 that he'll succeed in United. Sort of think that we should have sold him after last season - we would have got around 100 mil for him.
On the attitude side of things, it is completely his responsibility - but we also haven't had a strong manager. Ole by all accounts was very friendly with the players, and Rangnick had no credibility as interim. They were also both in the position of praying Bruno did something as one of the few goal threats available which probably inclined them to letting a lot of stuff go.
I think it should be possible for Erik ten Hag to demand a more constructive disposition from Bruno.
I think it should be possible for Erik ten Hag to demand a more constructive disposition from Bruno.
I like bowen but disagree he'd have impact of Bruno at his best at United. He's had a terrible season but im happy I've seen enough good to think in a well coached team he can be incredibly effective and also that he has a desire to improve. De Bruyne is better of course
I would throw a tantrum too if I was working my ass off game after game and watching the likes of Rashford stroll around the pitch giving not a single feck. Most of the best players expect a lot from their teammates. He just has one of those faces as well. Bit like Gabriel Jesus.
There would have been a full blown riot if we sold him at the end of last season.
Personally I think he will thrive under a more prescriptive manager as long as he has a bunch of players putting in the same effort levels he does around him.
Said this before, but there is hypocrisy in this approach on here.
For example, Wan-Bissaka, Fred and Maguire have been players many have agreed need to be replaced on here. Yet they all score brilliantly in certain metrics. Not ‘wafty ones’ either - very key metrics related to their position. For example, Wan-Bissaka would typically top the tackles made chart in the league, and Maguire would score very high for aerial duels won. Both are extremely important metrics for defenders. Fred, I’m sure, wins possession more than most midfielders in the league. That said, many have concluded that despite these stats, key stats too, they are not good enough players.
Every conversation can’t just be dismissed with a G+A argument. Wan-Bissaka, for example, must be replaced because the argument is that he does not help us play the way we want to as a team. It isn’t so much a statistical case at all. The argument is his technique. Not his tackles, speed. What an upgrade would look like, reading the forum, is someone with a better touch. It is seemingly easy for people to make that argument with Wan-Bissaka, a darn full-back, yet people refuse to look beyond simple numbers for a far more crucial role to the team’s play when it comes to Bruno.
Bruno posts good figures, but he doesn’t improve our play, and on the contrary, inhibits our play more often than not when he is doing anything other than creating or scoring a goal. I think this is where some people take issue. We can see his G+A just as clearly as we can see AWBs tackles completed, or Fred’s recoveries per game. However, we recognise that as a team, we need to function well as a unit that gets the best out of each other. Certain players don’t have the requisite qualities to do that, even if they, in isolation, appear to do their jobs well. I could go on. De Gea could point to his own brilliant statistics in terms of being a goalkeeper who excels at saving the ball. Yet I’ve read countless posts that he is not good enough because of how he plays the game. ‘He doesn’t come off his line enough’ - these are stylistic arguments that are claimed severely impacts the entire way the team plays. Some people still think De Gea is a ‘world class’ keeper, and I imagine that is by way of the same process that Bruno is apparently a ‘word class attacking midfielder’. However, many people don’t see De Gea as WC at all. They want us to get say, Robert Sanchez because he is technically better, but make sniggering comments if other suggest a 10 with cleaner technique than Bruno, even if he has a lower G+A - similarly to how Robert Sanchez saves less shots.
People are happy to make these arguments daily, but there is a huge blind spot with many when it comes to Bruno, despite, IMO, his deficiencies being both as glaring and as detrimental to our team as Wan-Bissaka’s or De Gea’s.
I think he‘s had his peak at United now. He was great at first but the moaning and wastefulness is a bit of a drag. I don’t think you will sell him but I think they should have let his contract run down and seen if someone would come in for him. Think he’d be very good again at Inter Milan or Atletico Madrid but he’ll have to make massive changes to his game under Ten Hag. I’ve seen people mention trying him as a false nine and all that, but he’s not that type of player IMO.
I think most of our fan base would still be angry if he was sold now. He carried our team on his back for the 2 seasons before this one and deserves more than a chance to shine in a functioning team (if ten hag can manage that).
I wouldn't read too much into what the derps on here say, we're talking about the same forum were people are declaring ten hag a failure and a yes man after his first ever interview. It beggars belief.
How about letting Ten Hag assess him before giving him a new contract?
Personally would like to see him gone.
Personally would like to see him gone.
I have never seen a footballer top the ball as much as him when taking free kicks, corners or crosses. His technique is very average.
On top of that, he can't carry the ball more than a few yards, rarely dribbles past a man, pretty weak physically and inconsistent passing. Apart from his finishing which is good for a midfielder, he is as ordinary as they come.
If he's convinced to stop playing the way he does, he won't look much better than a Mateusz Klich or Stuart Armstrong. He has made a very good career and reputation just by playing the percentages to good effect.
I dont blame bruno at all for his form I blame whatever happens to every single player we sign who play great for there previous club come here play well for a while then tactics or training or mentality gets to them and the longer they are here the worse and worse they play. Just like martial, di maria, matic, mata, bruno, varane.
I agree, what I meant was, he needs now better players around him to bring his best out, such has happened with Portugal recently.
His first year here was the purple patch and that's what those in his defence are missing. Bruno was amazing from Jan 2020 to Jan 2021, since then he has been the erratic mess we've seen all of this season. People will immediately point to his stats last season but his performances were so rotten in the second half of the season and capped off a typical big game stinker in the EL final.
The Bruno we saw in the first year is not a realistic picture of what to expect from him. He plays the same risky football now that he did back then, but the confidence and streak he was on led to his attempts working way more often than not. He also got bailed out of some shockers with a goal or assist.
His detractors often point rightfully point out that no winning team has had such an erratic player in their team in the last decade. He's a stats player not a team builder. His decision making is truly awful for an AM at the top level and he doesn't have the technical ability to be good in possession either through dribbling, short passing or hold up play.
In my opinion, I think he'll be out of the starting 11 at some point next season. Not only because of his carelessness but because of his hero complex in going rogue and abandoning tactical plans in the hope of saving the day. ETH seems like the type who will not stand for that and we all know Bruno gets too emotional during games and won't be able to help himself from doing his solo acts.
The Bruno we saw in the first year is not a realistic picture of what to expect from him. He plays the same risky football now that he did back then, but the confidence and streak he was on led to his attempts working way more often than not. He also got bailed out of some shockers with a goal or assist.
His detractors often point rightfully point out that no winning team has had such an erratic player in their team in the last decade. He's a stats player not a team builder. His decision making is truly awful for an AM at the top level and he doesn't have the technical ability to be good in possession either through dribbling, short passing or hold up play.
In my opinion, I think he'll be out of the starting 11 at some point next season. Not only because of his carelessness but because of his hero complex in going rogue and abandoning tactical plans in the hope of saving the day. ETH seems like the type who will not stand for that and we all know Bruno gets too emotional during games and won't be able to help himself from doing his solo acts.
Thats not true though. Fernandes quite literally carried the team for nearly 2 years under Ole and made the whole thing tick. Anyone who watched us would find that hard to argue with. His assists, chances created and goals back that up.
AwB is very good one on one and at tackling...which is a very small part of a modern defenders game and becomes less and less important the more ambitious the club is. Every other area of the game he is sub par. Positioning, aerially, attacking etc etc. Maguire might win a lot of aerial duals but again he is caught out positionally, turns like a tug boat and doesn't have much pace. That being said, I think with a bit of coaching and a better midfield in front of him and he will be fine. Not worth £80m but fine.
Can you not see the difference between Bruno and those 2? Stats aren't everything but the further forward you get, the more you can rely on stats to give a stronger picture of someone contributions because they are more obvious and measurable.
The argument isn't his technique, its absolutely everything but his tackling. Hes quite literally sub-par in every area apart from tackling and 1 on 1s. A modern full back is expected to be able to attack and defend. They are expected to be creating chances, defending and attacking, have a good pass, a good first touch. AwB has none of this and the stats will back that up.
I'm not saying that hes not wasteful but you have decided that a player who has basically elevated us from crap to OK almost on his own isn't good enough because hes not a team player...in a team that has about as much chemistry and coaching as an under 5s side. Did we play like peak Barca before Fernandes came along and ruined it all?
We can have this discussion after a season under ETH when Bruno isn't being asked to be responsible for almost all of our attacking flair and thrust. There is a reason that when he arrived we became 100% better. We haven't been a well drilled, pass and move side ever I'm pretty sure so why would you think that he would play in that manner in a team that is completely devoid of that style of play. He came into a mess of individuals cobbling performances together and has managed to prosper despite the shit coaching and management he has worked under.
Bruno will be fine under ETH, Sancho will shine under a coach who wants the team to take priority over the individual and I think plenty of our players will look a lot better.
Pretty much this.
Bruno didn’t ‘literally carry us for nearly 2 years’ at all IMO, but ultimately, the rest of your post is seemingly based upon the premise that he did, so we are not likely to agree. When he joined, we had three 20 goal forwards in our team, and the following year, he took the second half of the season off (cue the caf coming together and deciding that they would dismiss his form as ‘fatigue’). During that spell, Cavani was scoring almost every game, Greenwood was scoring, Pogba was brilliant. Bruno did not carry this team for two years at all, he had a great opening spell, which I guarantee of people watched back game by game now, they would have an adjusted view of it because they are now complaining about the things he did then and they dismissed because he was new and they were excited. The difference between this brilliant spell of ‘carrying’ the team and this agreed spell of dreadful form is not much more than about 10 converted penalties IMO. Every issue I have with his game was a factor back then after all. He wasn’t stronger back then, wasn’t faster back then, didn’t retain the ball better back then, didn’t select his passes better back then, didn’t dribble better back then. People’s interpretation of it was different back then is all. It has gone from ‘I don’t mind him giving it away, at least he’s trying things’ to ‘hopefully the new manager will reign him in a bit’. Same issue, different interpretation, which I knew was going to happen.
Bruno absolutely played his part and made us better, don’t get me wrong. We had Lingard/Pereira in the team before he came. For a period in his initial spell, I think that team was playing as well as it could. I don’t think there was really any player not pulling their weight. Yet it was not good enough, and clearly never going to be good enough to be the best. Since then, we’ve struggled to even reach that level, but that level was the absolute maximum that team could have reached IMO playing that way. Which shows that to go the one or three steps further to actually win the league, we’d need to change something.
Sancho I have greater hope for, because he is a far more talented footballer than Bruno. Bruno is a propped up world class player who would be dismissed by the scouts of almost every top team, because he’s poor at about 70-75% of the things that he has to do on the pitch, and relies upon the 25% to gloss over it. You say that the issue with AWB is that he is poor at everything BUT tackling, yet Bruno is poor at everything but his final pass and to a lesser extent, his shooting. And even those are inconsistent. What else is he good at?
It's not penalties, it's results. Only thing that drives opinion and paints different picture on every performance.
@Rozay I think we will just have to watch the coming season and see what happens. I think Fernandes will be quality under ETH and I assume you think he won't due to his fundamental weaknesses.
Agreed. Great post.
There is a difference actually. Our play improved when Bruno came into our team for 18 months.
G+A is a massive statistic compare to tackles complete. Top defenders don't usually have most tackles complete because they get into positions that do not require them to dive in and slide tackle on every occasion, they intercept the play and position in a way that they dont need to tackle.
In comparison, top creative midfielders in the league will always have good G+A
This about sums it up for me. We will see.
Out of interest, which players that aren't almost guaranteed to leave over the summer do you think will be mainstays of ETH next season.
I would say
DDG
Varane
Shaw
Fred
Sancho
Ronaldo
Fernandes
Raheem Sterling is a specific type that every Pep or LVG team need. A reason why Pedro and Douglas Costa were mainstays for him.
This myth continues. Bruno came into a side in 19/20 that was missing some key creative players such as Pogba and Rashford. He was great in that first three months but he wasn’t alone at all in that and it’s a small sample section and a small portion of his time here. Rashford Martial Greenwood Shaw we’re all as important. Maguire for me was good that season as was Pogba on his return from injury, Matic a good foil, if on the decline, for Pogba Bruno. Bruno was a massive upgrade on Perriera but Rashford and Pogba coming back helped us massively too.
There has been no massive upturn in the clubs performances at all since Bruno signed. So he’s carried us to sod all, very few players carry a team and Bruno isn’t one that will do that. He carries his own stats and that is it, then people become hypnotised that he’s carried the team.
In the three seasons before we signed him :-
16/17 Goals 54, pts 69, pos 6th ( 2 x trophies)
17/18 Goals 68, pts 81, pos 2nd
18/19 Goals 65, pts 66, pos 6th
In the three seasons he’s been here:-
19/20 Goals 66, pts 66, pos 3rd
20/21 Goals 73, pts 74, pos 2nd
21/22 Goals 57, pts 58, pos 6th
I’d argue we performed better in the three seasons before he signed, 81 points and two trophies, than the two and a half since he arrived.
The standout season for goals last season is skewed due to a 9-0 vs nine men, and I’ve stated many times that he scored 3 non penalty goals from January to may that season, two in draws and one in a defeat and had four assists….2 of those in the 9-0 win.
So how exactly has he improved us, and what has he carried us to ? He definitely didn’t carry us last season, statistically or performance wise. This season he’s been next to Maguire, our worst performer.
We’ve won nothing yet in his time. To me he had a great first 3 months, a good first six months and has been dreadful for the last 18 months.
What I worry about with Bruno is a lack of mental discipline. The ball that led to the Palace was pure insanity. It was another Hollywood ball that had no business being played. The constant whining and moaning betrays a man looking for excuses and has to stop. But there is a fantastic footballer in his boots.