Go on then, if you insist.
"Out of all of our players, there are only a few of them that have any business being part of an elite team. Bruno is not one of them."
Everybody in this forum will have a different opinion for who our best 3 players are. For me (agnostic to coach, playstyles) it'd be Bruno, Rashford and Casemiro. Yours will undoubtedly be different, which is fine.
"Look, mate. I don't understand how it's so hard for you to grasp, but he is 30 next year and has won feck all."
He lifted a trophy as deputy captain 6 months ago, has reached 2 other cup finals and finished 2nd in the league since joining United, but putting all that to one side... neither have Heung Min-Son or Harry Kane. They're both also 2 years older.
"He is a decent player who is excellent at creating chances, but not much else. He runs around a lot and is never injured which is fantastic, but building a team with him as a focal point of possession is ridiculous."
You've just mentioned 3 extremely valuable attributes in the same context as saying he has one use. And let's ignore being able to cover 10+KM 50 games per season over a 10 year period when half our players are crocked. And then let's ignore all his other attributes (goal scoring, defensive work, high intensity presses per game, crossing, pass completion, key passes per game tactical and positional flexibility, leadership, You may disagree with some/all of these attributes, which again is fine... despite the statistics saying otherwise, but let's ignore all this again.
You love using Odegaard as a stick to beat Bruno with so let's weave him into a couple of hypotheticals:
1. If we switched Rashford and Antony with Martinelli and Saka, do you believe that United's metrics would improve, decrease or stay the same?
2. If we switched Odegaard with Bruno, do you believe that Arsenal's metrics would worsen and United's improve?
What's my point? Changing Bruno for another top AM wouldn't make much of a difference
because our main problem isn't Bruno. They're both top-class advanced midfielders who can adapt to different playstyles and demands. Odegaard has shown this by adapting to Arteta's tactics, and Bruno has shown this by performing numerous roles under Ole, Rangnick and ETH, as well as for the NT.
And this leads to something you always tend to dismiss when convenient regarding Bruno. If he plays #6 for a game, you turn to his G/A stats and say "he should be doing more" and when he plays as a #10/SS you say 'all he does is score and assist'. The truth is that he impacts the game no matter where he plays, and doesn't kick up a fuss when he's used out of position for the greater good of the team. In the past 6 months we've seen him perform (to varying degrees of success) at LM, SS, AM, RM, CM, DM.
Tell me, if Bruno is such an amazing player, why does he consistently perform mediocre, and awful in almost every big game?
Consistently and
almost every seem contradictory to me. Anyway, classic Redcafe mindlessness. When United play good, it's the team. When United play OK, it's the team. When United play bad, it's whichever player you dislike the most.
If you reframe your question to 'Why did United play bad in most big games since the 22/23 season?', which would be more representative and factual, there'd be a whole host of reasons and even you would SURELY agree that "Because Bruno Fernandes plays" would not top your list. And even if it did, it's probably time to quell the myth with some data...
I've just taken the liberty of reviewing our games vs Arsenal, Chelsea, City, Liverpool, Newcastle & Spurs (big games) last season, using Whoscored ratings as a measure for performance.
- Bruno Fernandes:
- Top 3 performer - 5 games (42%)
- Top 5 performer - 9 games (75%)
- Lisandro Martinez:
- Top 3 performer - 3 games (30%)
- Top 5 performer - 3 games (30%)
- Casemiro:
- Top 3 performer - 5 games (56%)
- Top 5 performer - 5 games (56%)
- Christian Eriksen
- Top 3 performer - 0 games (0%)
- Top 5 performer - 1 games (11%)
- Fred
- Top 3 performer - 2 games (17%)
- Top 5 performer - 4 games (33%)
- Marcus Rashford:
- Top 3 performer - 6 games (50%)
- Top 5 performer - 7 games (58%)
Only Rashford had more top 3 performances (by 1) in the big PL games last season, and nobody had close to as many top 5 performances as Bruno.
FYI, our top performing players for the 22/23 PL season as a whole were:
Fernandes - 7.44
Casemiro - 7.17
Rashford - 7.08
But what about Europe? I've done the same for our knockout stage games.
- Bruno Fernandes:
- Top 3 performer - 2 games (40%)
- Top 5 performer - 4 games (80%)
*5 games total as Bruno missed the game against Sevilla (we lost 3-0.)
Given the above, it's unfair to make the statement that "Bruno is bad in almost all big games" when his performance ratings show that he is more often than not one of our top 5 performers in big games, and c. 40% of the time he's in the top 3.
Ratings for an individual game don't tell a full story, but when you're using 38 games and Bruno still the consistently highest rated player in the team, you start to wonder why a small group of fans on a United forum hold such an agenda.
For completeness, here are the PL season ratings for the other top 4 teams.
City
KDB - 7.58
Haaland - 7.54
Grealish - 7.33
Rodri - 7.26
Foden - 7.13
Arsenal
Jesus - 7.42
Saka - 7.40
Odegaard - 7.29
Martinelli - 7.25
Partey - 7.06
Newcastle
Trippier - 7.41
Joelinton - 7.24
Bruno G - 7.21
Isak - 7.06
Schar - 7.05
West Ham
Rice - 7.01
Paqueta - 6.97
Bowen - 6.81
Soucek - 6.80
Benrahma - 6.70
What does this show?
- That the ratings work as a base assessment of performance: If you asked who the best players were for each of those teams last season, at least 3 of those names would appear in anyone's top 5 for that team.
- Not enough of our midfielders and forwards performed to a high level last season. I haven't included above, but the 4th-7th spots on our team were occupied by 3 full backs and a CB.
I'll use this moment to say that
@Jeppers7 tagged me and asked whether I thought Bruno Fernandes had good or bad performances this season. My response was going to be that I thought Bruno played especially good against Forest and in parts against Spurs/Arsenal, just like the rest of the time, and that I didn't think he played particularly poorly in any of our opening games.
According to Whoscored, Bruno Fernandes has been a top 5 performer in all our of games so far this season. This doesn't mean that Bruno has been outstanding, but it does suggest that as a group we do not have enough individuals pulling their weight to execute the team's instructions. And finally regarding the Brighton game at the weekend, which generated 40+ comments in this thread from
@zaafi, I felt that only Casemiro and McTominay performed at a level below the rest of the team.
Moving on...
The majority in this thread wants to get rid of him.
Nope, 5-10 guys that shout louder and more often than everybody else want to get rid of him. There are 50K+ United fans I sit beside every single week that recognise him as one of our most important players.
Did anyone want Keane, Scholes, Giggs or Cantona to feck off?
Hahahaha, yes they did. All 4 of them actually, at varying points of their careers. You can probably get a sense of this by reading through some old Carrick threads.
So yeah... I've used data to support the above, focusing mainly on last season because that's what the majority of arguments have been based on (Bruno undisputed GOAT in 19/20, 20/21, 21/22), and it's clear that most of the shite that's thrown around here is baseless.
Finally, for completeness, Bruno has rated either 1st or 2nd in performance for United every season since joining in January 2020... across BOTH PL and European competitions. 8/8.
