[zaafi]

It's like our fans want us relegated or something. Bruno created more chances than de Bruyne last season. He's already created 4 big chances this season. You take that out of our team and we might as well start preparing for life in the Championship

https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/players/big_chance_created

Our problems are: at full back, don't have creativity there and we are soft. I don't rate Dalot and I don't rate anyone else we've got. Big problems there. At centre back when Varane is out we are awful. But our biggest and most glaring weakness is SCORING the chances we make. Garnacho, Rashford and friends are wasting chances by the bucketful somehow. Yeah we don't control the football enough, but that's not what Bruno is good at - even the die hard fans of his like me will accept he's gonna lose the ball more often than you'd want. But after watching Jesse fecking Lingard play AN ENTIRE YEAR without scoring or assisting a -single goal- I'm not desperate to go back to that, thanks.
Our options are: shit players who will lose the ball and do NOTHING ELSE Vs a player that will lose the ball but work hard and make things happen. I would rather have the latter.

It's like you've missed the entire conversation and arguments for why people don't want Bruno to be a key player in the team. Why do you think everything is about chances created, like a few other posters on here? Why did Liverpool dominate with Fabinho/Wijnaldum/Henderson as a midfield three, or why do Brighton consistently create chance after chance, despite not having an individual player responsible for chance creation? It is not only about chances, assists or goals by individual players. For example, in Salah's first season in the PL, he scored 32 goals and 10 assists in the league alone, but Liverpool still ended up 4th.

We rely on Bruno to create chances, when we should be creating as a team by dominating games in possession and passing. We rely on individual moments of brilliance, which sometimes pays off, and other times it doesn't. This is why we draw or lose to teams that are mediocre. They work together. We're a team that are clueless when it comes to working together as a team and build-up.

For the record, Bruno Fernandes did create more than De Bruyne last season, but he also played 1000 more minutes in the league. De Bruyne offers so much more in midfield than Bruno does, which is why he is a world class player and Bruno isn't.

 

[GazTheLegend]

Agree its all about taking chances and scoring goals. Football is really difficult when you don't. Leads to all these other complaints about tactics, effort etc.

In fact that's all I'd criticise Bruno for. His finishing has big time declined.

The other elephant in the room is that it isn't just Bruno's job to create chances for other players. Rashford, Antony, Garnacho etc (and I feel a bit guilty for picking them but that's life - I still think they can get better) aren't making chances either, nor are they getting assists, because all they ever seem to do is shoot. The dysfunction of our team dynamic is - Bruno creates everything, takes all the blame, while all anyone else does is shoot or put in crap crosses to players who are terrible in the box. On his odd world class day the problem we have is Bruno papers over ALL the cracks by making chances I could score myself for other players while scoring 1-2 on his own - we then win games with those players thinking they're fantastic and doing something right. But we remain dysfunctional, and then when smart managers see our team they set out to nullify / wind up Bruno, and if we have a weak referee he gets himself wound up, plays like shit, and we don't lay a glove on. That's on him too - he shouldn't get wound up and needs to keep going and/or find any way to beat markers - but it kills us in big games away.

 

[GazTheLegend]

@zaafi if it's so easy to make chances, where are all these other premier league worldstars players on that list? They're sucking up Bruno's dust.

 

[Marwood]

It's like you've missed the entire conversation and arguments for why people don't want Bruno to be a key player in the team. Why do you think everything is about chances created, like a few other posters on here? Why did Liverpool dominate with Fabinho/Wijnaldum/Henderson as a midfield three, or why do Brighton consistently create chance after chance, despite not having an individual player responsible for chance creation? It is not only about chances, assists or goals by individual players. For example, in Salah's first season in the PL, he scored 32 goals and 10 assists in the league alone, but Liverpool still ended up 4th.

We rely on Bruno to create chances, when we should be creating as a team by dominating games in possession and passing. We rely on individual moments of brilliance, which sometimes pays off, and other times it doesn't. This is why we draw or lose to teams that are mediocre. They work together. We're a team that are clueless when it comes to working together as a team and build-up.

For the record, Bruno Fernandes did create more than De Bruyne last season, but he also played 1000 more minutes in the league. De Bruyne offers so much more in midfield than Bruno does, which is why he is a world class player and Bruno isn't.

Why can't both things occur? Have Bruno but also have the rest of the team creating.

You're not saying both can't happen are you?

 

[zaafi]

@zaafi if it's so easy to make chances, where are all these other premier league worldstars players on that list? They're sucking up Bruno's dust.

What an odd argument. I never said it's easy to create chances, and I'd imagine they're playing together as a team and not mindlessly giving the ball away because it could potentially lead to a chance. I already said in the post above that they create as a team, so they don't necessarily have one individual player doing the creating. The point isn't chances created, anyway, the point is that he doesn't offer abilities in midfield that you need to control the midfield. He is weak, can't drive with the ball, can't dribble, can't operate in tight space, he's not press resistant and he mindlessly gives the ball away as soon as he is pressed because of it. So against big teams or teams that press together as a team, his weaknesses are exposed. Why do you think his performances in big games are always shit?

 

[zaafi]

Why can't both things occur? Have Bruno but also have the rest of the team creating.

You're not saying both can't happen are you?

No, it can't happen, because he is not a possession player. He will instinctively look to create when he sees a tiny opportunity. Of course, other players will be able to create chances other than him, but that's not what I mean by creating or working as a team.

 

[Marwood]

No, it can't happen, because he is not a possession player. He will instinctively look to create when he sees a tiny opportunity. Of course, other players will be able to create chances other than him, but that's not what I mean by creating or working as a team.

I don't get that at all.

Working as a team firstly requires individuals to do their jobs well. That's what a good team performance is. Individual players doing their jobs well.

Bruno isn't responsible nor can he make the players around him perform. He can't give Antony a right foot, get Martial to regain his pace etc.

But if you were to doubt this we've actually seen this team create chances for fun with Bruno in it. During that good run under Ole.

The difference was Rashford, Martial and Greenwold were all at the top of their game.

Bruno isn't stopping any front three from performing. That's down to those individuals.

 

[zaafi]

I don't get that at all.

Working as a team firstly requires individuals to do their jobs well. That's what a good team performance is. Individual players doing their jobs well.

Bruno isn't responsible nor can he make the players around him perform. He can't give Antony a right foot, get Martial to regain his pace etc.

But if you were to doubt this we've actually seen this team create chances for fun with Bruno in it. During that good run under Ole.

The difference was Rashford, Martial and Greenwold were all at the top of their game.

Bruno isn't stopping any front three from performing. That's down to those individuals.

How are you going to work together as a team when your supposed focal point of possession performs like this?

This is what he does. Creating a couple chances a game does not make up for all his weaknesses and deficiencies.

 

[Rozay]

Why can't both things occur? Have Bruno but also have the rest of the team creating.

You're not saying both can't happen are you?

Both can’t happen because for the latter to happen, we need to keep and move the ball around better, and for Bruno to top our creativity stats - he needs to look for a striker almost everytime he gets the ball.

You watched the game on Saturday. Do you honestly think Bruno could play for the team in blue? Why is it so hard for people to grasp that above any individual, the idea should be to create a cohesive unit that creates chances by making the right decisions and movement over and over? Surely, as a team, we want to get to a level where we can pass and move around teams at an elite level? Brighton scored TWO goals against us on Saturday that involved them moving the ball from back to front with more than 20 passes. The final ‘assist’ could have been made by anyone, they were not highlight reel curved/lobbed passes in behind from 30 yards. They were situations where the whole team worked together to engineer numerical advantages and work the goalscorer into a clear shooting opportunity in our penalty box.

Do you think that happens CONSISTENTLY in a team with Bruno in it based on the decisions he makes on the ball? And if not, do you see it as so long as Bruno gets his x.A numbers up, it is somehow of greater value to the team?

People love to compare Bruno to Kevin based on numbers. Then there’s ‘we played without him one time 4 years ago, look how that went’. City’s system is the bigger creator than Kevin, and now he’s out injured, they are not falling apart. If Haaland got injured, they would still score the most goals. They are not reliant upon someone literally trying to create all the goals for their team via brilliant passes. That’s not how top football works, it’s a team game.

I’ve been having this argument on here for many years and while it’s been met with so much resistance, surely, at some point the proof is in the actual pudding? For all the chances Bruno’s style creates for him, it has and never will be enough for us. We are also outplayed by good teams frequently. Then we come onto Redcafe straight after and engage in arguments that insist that what we’re saying is wrong, if only strikers took every chance then we’d win titles. Cool, let’s keep Bruno around until we find a striker, or three, that takes every chance. Perhaps that is a better, more sensible plan than what others have been suggesting which is to take the more measured approach and increase out control and also quality of chances in games.

Perhaps it needs to also be said, nobody needs to be presented with any chance creation stats for Bruno. Ever again. Je can have them, they are not the topic of debate, and nobody denies that he creates a large amount of chances personally. Once we agree on that, we can now look at his role in the context of us having never been quite good enough as a team, and why we can’t control games. Ultimately, we haven’t won anything of note, and don’t look likely to either. So the question is, do we just need a 50 goal striker or is the solution more than that?

 

[MegadrivePerson]

Over the last few years, generally the players that give the ball away the most in the Premier League tend to be Bruno, De Bruyne and Alexander-Arnold.

It's clearly because these are three of the most creative players in the league that are trying difficult passes.

The difference between the three clubs is that City and Liverpool are far better at pressing and winning the ball back. If Bruno was at City or Liverpool he'd be fine.

 

[Rozay]

How are you going to work together as a team when your supposed focal point of possession performs like this?

This is what he does. Creating a couple chances a game does not make up for all his weaknesses and deficiencies.

What that video doesn’t show is that his pass also created our solitary goal for Elanga in that game. Which basically, his supporters argue is a perfectly reasonable trade off for the rest. The idea should be that we het to a level where we can go and outplay Atletico away and win 0-3. Like City or Liverpool at their best would. Instead, we were dominated, yet Bruno got us an assist.

This is so obviously not a sustainable strategy to build a top football team.

 

[Marwood]

How are you going to work together as a team when your supposed focal point of possession performs like this?

This is what he does. Creating a couple chances a game does not make up for all his weaknesses and deficiencies.

I mean we could produce a similar vid for all our players being wasteful. You know that. You could create that exact compilation for Rashford, Casemiro etc.

So how did we create loads of chances in that good run under Ole with Bruno in the team? First team to score four goals in four consecutive away games weren't we?

Bruno didn't really give the ball away against Brighton. So how come the team didn't create lots of chances? Why didn't the rest of the team suddenly go into chance creating mode?

 

[Marwood]

Both can’t happen because for the latter to happen, we need to keep and move the ball around better, and for Bruno to top our creativity stats - he needs to look for a striker almost everytime he gets the ball.

You watched the game on Saturday. Do you honestly think Bruno could play for the team in blue? Why is it so hard for people to grasp that above any individual, the idea should be to create a cohesive unit that creates chances by making the right decisions and movement over and over? Surely, as a team, we want to get to a level where we can pass and move around teams at an elite level? Brighton scored TWO goals against us on Saturday that involved them moving the ball from back to front with more than 20 passes. The final ‘assist’ could have been made by anyone, they were not highlight reel curved/lobbed passes in behind from 30 yards. They were situations where the whole team worked together to engineer numerical advantages and work the goalscorer into a clear shooting opportunity in our penalty box.

Do you think that happens CONSISTENTLY in a team with Bruno in it based on the decisions he makes on the ball? And if not, do you see it as so long as Bruno gets his x.A numbers up, it is somehow of greater value to the team?

People love to compare Bruno to Kevin based on numbers. Then there’s ‘we played without him one time 4 years ago, look how that went’. City’s system is the bigger creator than Kevin, and now he’s out injured, they are not falling apart. If Haaland got injured, they would still score the most goals. They are not reliant upon someone literally trying to create all the goals for their team via brilliant passes. That’s not how top football works, it’s a team game.

I’ve been having this argument on here for many years and while it’s been met with so much resistance, surely, at some point the proof is in the actual pudding? For all the chances Bruno’s style creates for him, it has and never will be enough for us. We are also outplayed by good teams frequently. Then we come onto Redcafe straight after and engage in arguments that insist that what we’re saying is wrong, if only strikers took every chance then we’d win titles. Cool, let’s keep Bruno around until we find a striker, or three, that takes every chance. Perhaps that is a better, more sensible plan than what others have been suggesting which is to take the more measured approach and increase out control and also quality of chances in games.

Perhaps it needs to also be said, nobody needs to be presented with any chance creation stats for Bruno. Ever again. Je can have them, they are not the topic of debate, and nobody denies that he creates a large amount of chances personally. Once we agree on that, we can now look at his role in the context of us having never been quite good enough as a team, and why we can’t control games. Ultimately, we haven’t won anything of note, and don’t look likely to either. So the question is, do we just need a 50 goal striker or is the solution more than that?

It's how you decide all this is down to Bruno. You've just watched the game Saturday with probably all but three players underperforming yet somehow can decide it's Bruno.

I wouldn't mind but Saturday he wasn't even doinh the thing you complain about i.e. giving the ball away. So how can Saturdays result revolve around him.

Have we got a possession stat for him from Saturday?

 

[Red Devil 26]

Over the last few years, generally the players that give the ball away the most in the Premier League tend to be Bruno, De Bruyne and Alexander-Arnold.

It's clearly because these are three of the most creative players in the league that are trying difficult passes.

The difference between the three clubs is that City and Liverpool are far better at pressing and winning the ball back. If Bruno was at City or Liverpool he'd be fine.

I disagree with the last paragraph. It's not just about giving the ball away attempting difficult passes. Watch the way someone like De Bruyne can shield and control a ball when under pressure. Being able to play on the half turn, receive a ball under pressure and run with it, are huge assets both in terms of sustaining as well as creating attacks and are essential qualities No.10's should have. Bruno can't do any of these things.

A player in Bruno's position should aid the midfield in retaining possession and be an outlet when being pressed and under pressure. But he quite simply does not possess the technical ability to do these things.

 

[Savlehest]

If you look at Portugal Bruno and United Bruno it is two different players. In the United team he is forced to make so many risky passes, maybe because the tactics is build around it or because of his teammates are so much worse. When he miss a pass in Portugal they all know how de press and get the ball, this team just jogging around. This United team isnt horrible because of Bruno or Rashford, it is about wrong tactics and not good enough wingers. I love the newcoming young blood, but we cant rely on them every week.

 

[zaafi]

I mean we could produce a similar vid for all our players being wasteful. You know that. You could create that exact compilation for Rashford, Casemiro etc.

So how did we create loads of chances in that good run under Ole with Bruno in the team? First team to score four goals in four consecutive away games weren't we?

Bruno didn't really give the ball away against Brighton. So how come the team didn't create lots of chances? Why didn't the rest of the team suddenly go into chance creating mode?

I'm not gonna bother, really. I've had this discussion so many times before, and it's just mindless chattering, especially when you can't see his critics' point of view.

You're talking about creating chances, again, which is not the topic we're debating. He is excellent at creating chances, but it stops there. @Rozay laid it out for you perfectly, but again you didn't grasp the essence of the point.

 

[GazTheLegend]

I’ve been having this argument on here for many years and while it’s been met with so much resistance, surely, at some point the proof is in the actual pudding? For all the chances Bruno’s style creates for him, it has and never will be enough for us. We are also outplayed by good teams frequently. Then we come onto Redcafe straight after and engage in arguments that insist that what we’re saying is wrong, if only strikers took every chance then we’d win titles. Cool, let’s keep Bruno around until we find a striker, or three, that takes every chance. Perhaps that is a better, more sensible plan than what others have been suggesting which is to take the more measured approach and increase out control and also quality of chances in games.

You have the argument over and over and LOSE it over and over, because our argument is that Bruno Fernandes isn't the problem, playing the likes of Rashford, Antony, Sancho, Martial, McTominay is. Those players DON'T create chances -and- they lose the ball, AND they don't score the chances Bruno makes for us. I don't want to create a strawman argument here necessarily, but it 'feels' to me like your argument seems to consist of "1: drop Bruno, 2:???? 3:Profit!", when we HAVE had games (as you mention there) that Bruno didn't play and we were -absolutely shit in-, including a few where he came on as a substitute and completely changed the game for us. You will never, ever win people over through the numbers because literally everyone else in our teams numbers are atrocious vs Bruno, but most players in the entire Premier League have worse numbers than Bruno. Arguing against numbers is madness and you're going to get nowhere. However, that applies for the vast majority of matches we play and I CAN see a case for alternatives.

As for what it's worth, I do see a point there somewhere - and we do have a sort of anti-Bruno player in our team in Mason Mount. Later in the season, whether through rotation or injury, I expect we'll play some form of Mount-Eriksen-Casemiro midfield, or maybe a Mount-Casemiro-McTominay midfield, (Mainoo eventually?) and that should arguably be closer to the controlled-possession style we see Southgates England try to play. Maybe that will actually offer some sort of insight into whether we can actually play that way, but as has been stated, my personal feeling is that until we get some brains up front, and finish our chances, nothing will ever change for us, and dropping Bruno isn't the answer.

The final thought I have is that maybe, just maybe we could try the sort of thing Alex Ferguson used to and keep Bruno on the bench for certain games. It might seem like madness, but the best I've -ever- seen Bruno play is as a substitute. Would be a brave manager that would try it, but freshening up through the season and forcing opponents to alter their gameplan when probably 90% of teams gameplans vs us is 'stop Bruno' would be interesting to see. And getting control of games first half away from home against some sides - City, Liverpool etc - could justify using McTominay+Casemiro+Mainoo eventually when fit to keep things ultra tight instead of being leakier than a sieve, then maybte having him come on fresh in the second half at 0-0, that sort of thing.

 

[Marwood]

I'm not gonna bother, really. I've had this discussion so many times before, and it's just mindless chattering, especially when you can't see his critics' point of view.

You're talking about creating chances, again, which is not the topic we're debating. He is excellent at creating chances, but it stops there. @Rozay laid it out for you perfectly, but again you didn't grasp the essence of the point.

If what you want to discuss is possession the midfielder to discuss from Saturday is surely the one who only touched the ball 22 times and made 17 passes.

Have you discussed McTominay in the McTominay thread since Saturday?

 

[Jeppers7]

How are you going to work together as a team when your supposed focal point of possession performs like this?

This is what he does. Creating a couple chances a game does not make up for all his weaknesses and deficiencies.

That’s like a comedy sketch hard to believe it’s one tie

 

[Rozay]

You have the argument over and over and LOSE it over and over, because our argument is that Bruno Fernandes isn't the problem, playing the likes of Rashford, Antony, Sancho, Martial, McTominay is. Those players DON'T create chances -and- they lose the ball, AND they don't score the chances Bruno makes for us. I don't want to create a strawman argument here necessarily, but it 'feels' to me like your argument seems to consist of "1: drop Bruno, 2:???? 3:Profit!", when we HAVE had games (as you mention there) that Bruno didn't play and we were -absolutely shit in-, including a few where he came on as a substitute and completely changed the game for us. You will never, ever win people over through the numbers because literally everyone else in our teams numbers are atrocious vs Bruno, but most players in the entire Premier League have worse numbers than Bruno. Arguing against numbers is madness and you're going to get nowhere. However, that applies for the vast majority of matches we play and I CAN see a case for alternatives.

As for what it's worth, I do see a point there somewhere - and we do have a sort of anti-Bruno player in our team in Mason Mount. Later in the season, whether through rotation or injury, I expect we'll play some form of Mount-Eriksen-Casemiro midfield, or maybe a Mount-Casemiro-McTominay midfield, (Mainoo eventually?) and that should arguably be closer to the controlled-possession style we see Southgates England try to play. Maybe that will actually offer some sort of insight into whether we can actually play that way, but as has been stated, my personal feeling is that until we get some brains up front, and finish our chances, nothing will ever change for us, and dropping Bruno isn't the answer.

The final thought I have is that maybe, just maybe we could try the sort of thing Alex Ferguson used to and keep Bruno on the bench for certain games. It might seem like madness, but the best I've -ever- seen Bruno play is as a substitute. Would be a brave manager that would try it, but freshening up through the season and forcing opponents to alter their gameplan when probably 90% of teams gameplans vs us is 'stop Bruno' would be interesting to see. And getting control of games first half away from home against some sides - City, Liverpool etc - could justify using McTominay+Casemiro+Mainoo eventually when fit to keep things ultra tight instead of being leakier than a sieve, then maybte having him come on fresh in the second half at 0-0, that sort of thing.

Firstly, I haven’t lost anything, and secondly, your ‘strawman’ argument is completely wrong. The idea is not to drop Bruno and put one of the subs on. The argument has always been to rebuild the team on different foundations and principles than relying on a gun-slinger at the heart of it - training and buying players to play in a way that is not suited to Bruno’s strengths.

Of the other players you mentioned, half of them don’t even play anyway, and I find it ridiculous that a Bruno defender would be listing Rashford as a problem anyway. After all, ‘he scored 30 goals’.

I don’t even think I’m going to give people the benefit of the doubt of ‘misunderstanding’. The point has been made a million times in a million ways, and I suspect yourself and others have chosen, wilfully, to decide that what is being proposed is to simply drop Bruno and play Fred or whoever instead. I’ll say it again for clarity - Bruno doesn’t need to be dropped, he needs to be sold. And it’s not about ‘Bruno out, player x in’, so that we can both analyse how Bruno compares to player x, it is ‘stop playing reactive, percentage football and move towards playing controlled and structured football.’ That in itself equals ‘Bruno out’ by default. The day we decide we are ready to try and build a top team again and play like one, Bruno will be gone, and until then, we will at best continue to fall a little bit short and at worst, woefully short, regardless of who we sign to replace Scott McTominay. We can keep arguing this for years and years, while football moves on, the better teams start looking even more superior to us and the teams behind us continue to get their acts together and get closer to us. Meanwhile, you guys cling on to your one player/Messiah and continue to cherish our every assist. The best/only response we can possibly have to being embarrassed is to ‘try harder’ next game. Add a bit more ‘fight’. ‘Passion’. That’s the extent of what we are. We saw that on Saturday. We started with a ‘reaction’ from our last defeat, which basically consisted of ‘energy’. But then the superior football team just took a step back and passed the ball around us.

People can keep listing Martial, Rashford, McTominay, or whoever and convince themselves that if they were just a little bit better, we’d be able to beat Welbeck, Lallana, Gilmour and Groß - because of course - the problem is nothing to do with how we play, it’s that our players just aren’t good enough, except Bruno, because he can prove it with chance creation numbers.

What needs to change is our football, and nobody encapsulates the disorganised chaos of our play more than our captain. We’ll continue to argue - we’ll continue to spend 100s of millions on replacing the others as you suggest, and we’ll continue to fall short. And by the looks of things, you will continue to wonder why.

 

[zaafi]

If what you want to discuss is possession the midfielder to discuss from Saturday is surely the one who only touched the ball 22 times and made 17 passes.

Have you discussed McTominay in the McTominay thread since Saturday?

No, I haven't, because there is a mutual agreement that McTominay is fecking shit. There is nothing to discuss.

 

[Rozay]

What is so odd is that no matter how many wonder saves De Gea pulled off, so many of the same posters were easily able to conclude, for years now, that he was the ‘biggest issue in our team.’ The concept of looking beyond his save numbers and at how his weaknesses influence our play did not leave anyone scratching their head. They just have a blind spot with Bruno, and then go into this ‘Opta says’ mode and refuse to look at anything else.

 

[Jeppers7]

Once the ball is given away, you will never know what might have happened if a better pass had been played. Generally taking out a stat hogger leads to a sharing out of the numbers.

 

[GazTheLegend]

Once the ball is given away, you will never know what might have happened if a better pass had been played. Generally taking out a stat hogger leads to a sharing out of the numbers.

Who's he taking all these numbers away from then Clearly we'd be smashing teams 4-nil because he's holding back the likes of Dalot, Reguilon, McTominay, Rashford and Garnacho from their 30-40 combined assists.

 

[zaafi]

Who's he taking all these numbers away from then Clearly we'd be smashing teams 4-nil because he's holding back the likes of Dalot, Reguilon, McTominay, Rashford and Garnacho from their 30-40 combined assists.

He got 8 PL assists last season, mate. Eriksen got as many in about half the minutes. Clearly we should be smashing teams 4-0 when he's so incredibly good?

 

[Marwood]

No, I haven't, because there is a mutual agreement that McTominay is fecking shit. There is nothing to discuss.

So as a poster who's mainly concerned with possession football, after the Brighton game, you didn't discuss at all the midfielder who barely touched or passed the ball.

You instead went to the midfielder who got on the ball and made more passes than any other.

Bruno 84 attempted passes
McTominay 17 attempted passes

And its Bruno you look to for an explanation of why we don't keep the ball.

 

[GazTheLegend]

What is so odd is that no matter how many wonder saves De Gea pulled off, so many of the same posters were easily able to conclude, for years now, that he was the ‘biggest issue in our team.’ The concept of looking beyond his save numbers and at how his weaknesses influence our play did not leave anyone scratching their head. They just have a blind spot with Bruno, and then go into this ‘Opta says’ mode and refuse to look at anything else.

Yeah and we're gonna sign who to replace Bruno with? Obviously our team will be so MUCH stronger without him that we can put Adam Lallana in there and we'll destroy everyone. And you just made your own argument against yourself, we've replaced de Gea with someone (check the box here) Worse/Better/The same and we're now playing (check the box) Worse/Better/The Same?

I mean you're so close to getting it, here.

Welbeck, Lallana, Gilmour and Groß -

Gilmour didn't play, I think he's brilliant player and better than we've got and he only played 13 minutes vs ourselves. The point is more the coaching for the players we've got and getting them working as a unit, which is the major issue. I don't think any of those players are better than ours necessarily, though they're better footballers than we'd like to admit.

He got 8 PL assists last season, mate. Eriksen got as many in about half the minutes. Clearly we should be smashing teams 4-0 when he's so incredibly good?

As has been posted already he made 32 big chances. Those could/SHOULD have been 32 assists. Which is the point a lot of us are making - he deserves MORE assists from the players in front of him.

 

[zaafi]

So as a poster who's mainly concerned with possession football, after the Brighton game, you didn't discuss at all the midfielder who barely touched or passed the ball.

You instead went to the midfielder who got on the ball and made more passes than any other.

Bruno 84 attempted passes
McTominay 17 attempted passes

And its Bruno you look to for an explanation of why we don't keep the ball.

McTominay is only playing for us because of injuries. He shouldn't be anywhere near the team. Bruno is the captain and plays every single minute. That is the problem here.

 

[Licha-Vidic]

As i said, it's either ETH leaves or Bruno leaves. The center will not hold anymore. You can't be a modern team with a Bruno as a main player+captain.

ETH needs to be brave enough to bin him. Countinho, Joe Hart, Kane were all main men in their teams after binning them off the team took a giant leap forward.

We will beat around the bush but we need a better midfield to compete against all EPL teams + all superior European teams.

People will not agree but in 3 years time, I'm sure we (all the guys who want Bruno gone) will be vindicated.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Who's he taking all these numbers away from then Clearly we'd be smashing teams 4-nil because he's holding back the likes of Dalot, Reguilon, McTominay, Rashford and Garnacho from their 30-40 combined assists.

Don’t bother mate. You’re locking horns with the most tedious dullards on redcafe. They will spam the shit out of this thread until you’re completely broken and just can’t be arsed with continuing the discussion. Then lurk on here waiting to chew up and spit out the next poor bastard who commits the crime of thinking Fernandes is quite good at football.

 

[zaafi]

As has been posted already he made 32 big chances. Those could/SHOULD have been 32 assists. Which is the point a lot of us are making - he deserves MORE assists from the players in front of him.

It's hard to take you serious when you claim a big chance should instantly mean a goal. In that case, De Bruyne should also have 31 assists and Haaland should have scored 64 Premier League goals because he missed 28 big chances.

 

[zaafi]

Don’t bother mate. You’re locking horns with the most tedious dullards on redcafe. They will spam the shit out of this thread until you’re completely broken and just can’t be arsed with continuing the discussion. Then lurk on here waiting to chew up and spit out the next poor bastard who commits the crime of thinking Fernandes is quite good at football.

The master has arrived.

You deserve to watch us play like this. In fact, it's hard to believe you're even a United fan. At some point you have to wonder, if Bruno Fernandes was so good for the team, why are there so many people that want him out of the club?

 

[GazTheLegend]

It's hard to take you serious when you claim a big chance should instantly mean a goal. In that case, De Bruyne should also have 31 assists and Haaland should have scored 64 Premier League goals because he missed 28 big chances.

It's hard to take you seriously when you're literally staring at two midfielders in McTominay and Bruno and blaming Bruno for our performances, because McTominay shouldn't be in the team???? I don't know if it's cognitive dissonance or something. It's just plain weird.

 

[Rozay]

Yeah and we're gonna sign who to replace Bruno with? Obviously our team will be so MUCH stronger without him that we can put Adam Lallana in there and we'll destroy everyone. And you just made your own argument against yourself, we've replaced de Gea with someone (check the box here) Worse/Better/The same and we're now playing (check the box) Worse/Better/The Same?

I mean you're so close to getting it, here. Gilmour didn't play, I think he's brilliant player and better than we've got and he only played 13 minutes vs ourselves. The point is more the coaching for the players we've got and getting them working as a unit, which is the major issue. I don't think any of those players are better than ours necessarily, though they're better footballers than we'd like to admit.



As has been posted already he made 32 big chances. Those could/SHOULD have been 32 assists. Which is the point a lot of us are making - he deserves MORE assists from the players in front of him.

At this point it’s clear that you just can’t read, so I’ll leave it there.

 

[zaafi]

It's hard to take you seriously when you're literally staring at two midfielders in McTominay and Bruno and blaming Bruno, because McTominay shouldn't be in the team???? I don't know if it's cognitive dissonance or something. It's just plain weird.

Mate, what? This is the Bruno Fernandes performances thread. Why are you talking about McTominay? Posters like you always shift the blame to other players when the topic of debate is Bruno. "What about Rashford who missed chances?" "What about McTominay who made few passes?" What is your point? McTominay is shit and should be sold. Rashford should improve his decision making and work a lot harder.

 

[GazTheLegend]

At this point it’s clear that you just can’t read, so I’ll leave it there.

No need to make personal attacks just because you've lost ANOTHER argument on Fernandes but fair enough.

 

[zaafi]

No need to make personal attacks just because you've lost ANOTHER argument on Fernandes but fair enough.

You're not responding to any of the points he has made, so he hasn't lost anything. "You lost" like you're a 13 year old ffs

 

[GazTheLegend]

You're not responding to any of the points he's made, so he hasn't lost anything. "You lost" like you're a 13 year old ffs

You're all the ones making personal attacks and dodging our points. And then failing badly to make new ones, which seem to be nebulously "SELL FERNANDES, BUY (?????), AND WE GET MAGICALLY BETTER" which is asinine. But I'm done with this conversation too so fair winds and a following sea to the brave souls who dare enter it again and godspeed to them navigating this nonsense.

 

[zaafi]

You're all the ones making personal attacks and dodging our points. And then failing badly to make new ones, which seem to be nebulously "SELL FERNANDES, BUY (?????), AND WE GET MAGICALLY BETTER" which is asinine. But I'm done with this conversation too so fair winds and a following sea to the brave souls who dare enter it again and godspeed to them navigating this nonsense.

You don't have a point. That's the thing. You're shifting blame to every other player except Bruno. You can't even criticise him one bit, and all you say is "but he creates chances". Okay, but does he control the midfield? Does he drive with the ball? Does he dribble? Does he make good decisions? Does he encourage his team mates? Is he a good at set-pieces? Is he strong? Is he quick?

The answer to all of this is no. Yet, somehow, you have complete blind posters like yourselves who praise him like he is a deity. I hope you're enjoying our 13th position in the league, because that's what you deserve.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

This whole chances created thing is overblown anyway, it's assists that really matter.
Chances created, Bruno passes the ball to Rashford on the wing, who takes a shot. Chance created.
How many assists does he have? The same as Eriksen.