[Scandi Red]

Well, see your point, but don't think you should act suprised when this is the exact same thing happening on the other side as well

When has Bruno had a game like yesterday and then had multiple posters in here rave about how he was excellent (which would be the opposite of shit)? I really doubt that this has ever happened.

What did he create?

The only (I think) shot on target that we score from came from a Bruno through ball. I don't remember if it was Martial or Rashford who missed the chance. Sharp angle, but very score-able from that distance.

 

[Cassidy]

When has Bruno had a game like yesterday and then had multiple posters in here rave about how he was excellent (which would be the opposite of shit)? I really doubt that this has ever happened.



The only (I think) shot on target we had came from a Bruno through ball. I don't remember if it was Martial or Rashford who missed the chance. Sharp angle, but very score-able from that distance.

We only had one shot on target but we scored a goal?
He created far less than Eriksen and Casemiro and he is supposed to be the main creator. He had a poor game on the ball

 

[Scandi Red]

We only had one shot on target but we scored a goal?

My bad: the only shot on target that we didn't score from. We had two shots on target all game.

 

[Cassidy]

My bad: the only shot on goal that we didn't score from. We had two shots on goal all game.

Look at the stats here, you can clearly seen Fernandes is not only behind Casemiro and Eriksen in terms of progressing the ball, he was behind AWB, Lindelof etc

He didn't do his job yesterday and he was giving the ball away needlessly too. Granted he did make a good pass to Martial

One of the reason we had 2 shots on target all game is because Bruno was not doing his job

 

[Lyng]

@NZT-One s point is interesting. I didnt really notice a man marking of Bruno yesterday but curious if that is what happened.

 

[Scandi Red]

"Ball progression: pass + carry". I've never seen that one before, but it seems like we should play Onana in midfield next time.

Bruno had an average day. He didn't create 3 chances as usual (which is a world class number by the way), but he created 1 at the very least. He wasn't as involved in terms of number of passes, but he still broke 40, which is very far from hiding. He worked hard, but that's hardly news-worthy at this stage. I also disagree that he made many mistakes.

Average. Not bad, not good.

 

[Jeppers7]

You lasted exactly 2 sentences before you started lying or twisting the facts.

Although that might be an improvement..

No idea what this post is even referring to?

‘I think you’re about the only person who think he played well. Except the guy who gave him an assist for an offside goal he wasn’t involved in. Same level of delusion I suppose’

How is me thinking that a lie? What facts are there that I’m twisting?

Very strange, I think you’re reaching.

 

[Scandi Red]

‘I think you’re about the only person who think he played well

When did I say that he played well? I have used words like "average", "mediocre" and "OK". Although if you have a binary way of thinking I guess these can be translated to "well".

 

[Cassidy]

"Ball progression: pass + carry". I've never seen that one before, but it seems like we should play Onana in midfield next time.

Bruno had an average day. He didn't create 3 chances as usual (which is a world class number by the way), but he created 1 at the very least. He wasn't as involved in terms of number of passes, but he still broke 40, which is very far from hiding. He worked hard, but that's hardly news-worthy at this stage. I also disagree that he made many mistakes.

Average. Not bad, not good.

Bad in my opinion. Didn't pass forward often, didn't take responsibility in midfield to progress the ball.
Gave the ball away cheaply multiple times as usual
He did work hard I give him that, that's a minimum standard

 

[NZT-One]

When has Bruno had a game like yesterday and then had multiple posters in here rave about how he was excellent (which would be the opposite of shit)? I really doubt that this has ever happened.

That isn't what I mean. I mean that when he has a good game (not very good, a good game is usually is enough), he is getting praise and as soon as others emphasize some of his faults, they are getting shouted out with chance creation stats. To a degree, that makes sense but just as you are pointing out the levels of criticism now, it is the same with a lot of the praise as well.

Too often, even over the last one or two years, a blunt performance from Bruno (and others, don't want to single him out) is getting shoved aside because we won and he provided an assist. This is where Moments FC is coming from.

 

[NZT-One]

@NZT-One s point is interesting. I didnt really notice a man marking of Bruno yesterday but curious if that is what happened.

Just to make sure, don't know (and feeling wise, don't think) if Arsenal really man-marked him but this isn't the only option to isolate or frustrate a player. It often will also not work but when we know, that he is more or less our only creative spark, opponents will know as well. And they will prepare for it, they have to.

 

[Jeppers7]

When did I say that he played well? I have used words like "average", "mediocre" and "OK". Although if you have a binary way of thinking I guess these can be translated to "well".

I think Bruno deserves some credit for keeping possession well yesterday. Him and Antony were quite good at this

Here’s your first post from yesterday’s game. Can you explain why you think our captain deserves some credit in a 3-1 defeat to Arsenal, was quite good in your words also, then on the other hand you say he was mediocre.

Are you suggesting that a Manchester United captain should get credit for a mediocre performance in a 3-1 defeat. Really? Because that’s what you’ve stated.

 

[Scandi Red]

Too often, even over the last one or two years, a blunt performance from Bruno (and others, don't want to single him out) is getting shoved aside because we won and he provided an assist.

People subscribe to different ideas. Once you reach the opponent's half, I tend to reward creativity. Whether it's from dribbling, key passes, assists or goals, I don't really care as long as you are a creative force.

For two reasons:

1. Creating is the hardest thing to do in football. That is why Fergie didn't include a single goalkeeper, defender or even defensive midfielder in his list of world class players coached. I personally think that this was a little too harsh, but it is what it is...

2. Mistakes that happen so far away from your own goal are very rarely punished.

In a typical game, even if you are the better team, you can't expect to get much more than 5 chances. Having a player who consistently creates 3 or more is extremely valuable.

 

[lex talionis]

Bruno was poor yesterday but to be fair for most of the game we were level with Arsenal. After the wrongly disallowed goal, we were still in it but the two late goals had nothing to do with Bruno.

 

[Scandi Red]

Here’s your first post from yesterday’s game. Can you explain why you think our captain deserves some credit in a 3-1 defeat to Arsenal, was quite good in your words also, then on the other hand you say he was mediocre.

Are you trolling?

He deserves credit for improving a part of his game that he has previously been criticised for. A lot of posters wanted fewer mistakes, fewer risky passes and more "clever recycling of the ball" and he provided it. But there is more to football than that. Thus I still think he was average overall.

 

[arnie_ni]

Not sure what the solution is but he doesn't seem to be able to preform away from home against the big sides. I don't think id be opposed to benching him and becoming more solid in the middle.

 

[El Jefe]

@NZT-One s point is interesting. I didnt really notice a man marking of Bruno yesterday but curious if that is what happened.

I noticed Rice paying close attention to him and whenever there was any kind of duel Rice came out pretty easily as the winner.

His inability to take the ball on the half turn, in tight spaces or directly drive at opponents is a killer in bigger games. Everything you do has less space and requires more skill, especially when the physical qualities and concentration of the players you’re up against is much higher.

If Bruno has a defender tight on him, he’s going to doone of three things. 1. Pass the ball back to who it came from 2. Attempt a first time hit and hope ball on the half turn into the channels 3. Try and win a cheap foul and roll around like he got shot.

Better playera will punish the markers for getting too tight and use a bit of skill to turn them or hold the ball and bring others into play. The best players are able to do this regularly, not only does it keep possession but builds positive forward play.

 

[Jeppers7]

Are you trolling?

He deserves credit for improving a part of his game that he has previously been criticised for. A lot of posters wanted fewer mistakes, fewer risky passes and more "clever recycling of the ball" and he provided it. But there is more to football than that. Thus I still think he was average overall.

So when the captain of Manchester United has a mediocre game the first thing you think is that he deserves credit? No mention in the initial post about him being average overall, and that is being very generous…he was awful.

He doesn’t deserve credit and the fact that your first thought is to give him credit is just 100% of what you do. Similar to the Wolves game where apparently according to you, Casemiro and Mount were poor but Bruno played well?

The one thing Manchester United do well is ‘Brunoism’ etc.

I’m not trying to change your mind because it’s totally deluded, but you’re so blinkered it’s unbelievable. Covering your arse with a few ‘average’ comments a few posts later doesn’t really make you in any way balanced.

 

[Scandi Red]

So when the captain of Manchester United has a mediocre game the first thing you think is that he deserves credit?

Balance is good. Judging by the posts you'd think he had a nightmarish day at the office.

Similar to the Wolves game where apparently according to you, Casemiro and Mount were poor but Bruno played well?

Again you are lying! Surely there should be a rule against this? Literal quote so that you can't lie again:

He played a couple of good passes, one of which lead to a goal. That's about it. Still not as bad as Mount and Casemiro though. Midfield disaster today.

Unless you fail to understand me again: all 3 were bad (read: "midfield disaster"). Bruno is included in that. I still think that Casemiro and Mount were worse, but being better than shit is hardly a glowing review in my book.

I’m not trying to change your mind because it’s totally deluded, but you’re so blinkered it’s unbelievable.

You are the right person to talk... You have spent the last couple of years hounding one of the few good players we have. I have never seen a more deluded poster in my life.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

I understand criticising bad performances and whatnot but sometimes, I get the feeling we really dislike our players. That, I don't understand.

 

[philippexyz]

I noticed Rice paying close attention to him and whenever there was any kind of duel Rice came out pretty easily as the winner.

His inability to take the ball on the half turn, in tight spaces or directly drive at opponents is a killer in bigger games. Everything you do has less space and requires more skill, especially when the physical qualities and concentration of the players you’re up against is much higher.

If Bruno has a defender tight on him, he’s going to do one of three things. 1. Pass the ball back to who it came from 2. Attempt a first time hit and hope ball on the half turn into the channels 3. Try and win a cheap foul and roll around like he got shot.

Better players will punish the markers for getting too tight and use a bit of skill to turn them or hold the ball and bring others into play. The best players are able to do this regularly, not only does it keep possession but builds positive forward play.

You're spot on in everything you've said. Bruno's inability to retain, be calm with and carry the ball is limiting us severely. He treats the ball like a hot potato, tries to get rid of it as soon as possible - that's just who he is. Bruno needs really space, and is suited for counterattacking football where his Hollywood passes and long passing talent can come to fruition. He brings too much chaos in order for his creativity to be worth it, in my opinion. It puts a ceiling on the team that is not particularly high.

Tifo made a video about it, explained by John Mackenzie:




But that style of football is not really deployed by top teams in the world anymore, all of them are trying to keep the ball as much as possible and try to control the tempo/game. It's just not sustainable in the long run in current football. Consequence of the "Guardiola revolution".

This is one of my favorite threads on this forum and thread creator(@Rozay) encapsulates everything that is wrong about Bruno Fernandes and building a team around him:

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/we-...ague-with-bruno-fernandes-in-the-team.473294/

There was some backlash to this thread and now it's locked but some people agreed with everything that's been said by @Rozay and I'm definitely one of them.

 

[Jeppers7]

Again you are lying! Surely there should be a rule against this? Literal quote so that you can't lie again:

Unless you fail to understand me again: all 3 were bad (read: "midfield disaster"). Bruno is included in that. I still think that Casemiro and Mount were worse, but being better than shit is hardly a glowing review in my book.



You are the right person to talk... You have spent the last couple of years hounding one of the few good players we have. I have never seen a more deluded poster in my life.

Nah….this quote from Casemiro/Mount/Bruno midfield

It's just been one game of course, but that was genuinely terrifying. This was like McFred at its worst.

Bruno did well offensively but we expected that. Every time their midfielders got the ball they managed to break through.

 

[Scandi Red]

Nah….this quote from Casemiro/Mount/Bruno midfield

Yes? His passing created some chances that game? But he made a little too many mistakes and was bypassed too often. Thus I didn't call his overall performance good. Because it wasn't. But Mount and Casemiro were worse.

 

[Jeppers7]

Yes? His passing created some chances that game? But he made a little too many mistakes and was bypassed too often. Thus I didn't call his overall performance good. Because it wasn't. But Mount and Casemiro were worse.

Yeah as clearly stated in your post.

Nice chatting to you.

 

[Jeppers7]

You're spot on in everything you've said. Bruno's inability to retain, be calm with and carry the ball is limiting us severely. He treats the ball like a hot potato, tries to get rid of it as soon as possible - that's just who he is. Bruno needs really space, and is suited for counterattacking football where his Hollywood passes and long passing talent can come to fruition. He brings too much chaos in order for his creativity to be worth it, in my opinion. It puts a ceiling on the team that is not particularly high.

Tifo made a video about it, explained by John Mackenzie:




But that style of football is not really deployed by top teams in the world anymore, all of them are trying to keep the ball as much as possible and try to control the tempo/game. It's just not sustainable in the long run in current football. Consequence of the "Guardiola revolution".

This is one of my favorite threads on this forum and thread creator(@Rozay) encapsulates everything that is wrong about Bruno Fernandes and building a team around him:

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/we-...ague-with-bruno-fernandes-in-the-team.473294/

There was some backlash to this thread and now it's locked but some people agreed with everything that's been said by @Rozay and I'm definitely one of them.

Absolute state of the mods on this site. They block threads because they like players and block posters who like players they don’t.

 

[Scandi Red]

Yeah as clearly stated in your post.

I didn't realise that I had to give a full performance review every time. Especially when the post you quoted isn't even in the player performance forum!

You go on and continue your crusade. I will continue to rate our players fairly. I will also continue to have fun watching the good United players in particular. So long!

 

[NicolaSacco]

I wonder how many games this guy is going to play on his career. Feels like he virtually always gets picked, for both club and country.

 

[Greck]

Why would he get an assist for a pass Casemiro made?

If true should be the next step in the evolution of individual performances. Forgetting being the one to get the assist if I was in the general vicinity of a maybe assist then I've earned my cheque.

 

[zaafi]

Apparently, if it wasn't for Garnacho being slightly offside, Bruno would've had an assist. feck me, some of the posters are beyond deluded

If anyone thinks this performance is okay for a United midfielder, then you deserve to watch us lose and play like shit with no control.

 

[BluesJr]

Those who understand today’s football know that Bruno is hurting us massively.

 

[Snow]

Not sure what the solution is but he doesn't seem to be able to preform away from home against the big sides. I don't think id be opposed to benching him and becoming more solid in the middle.

He was man marked by Rice the entire game, similarly how Eriksen was marking Odegaard for most of the game.

Easy enough job for Rice considering we were just passing the ball between defenders, evading pressure from the 3 Arsenal players that weren't sitting deep and waiting for the evident long ball to come.

 

[KikiDaKats]

Those who understand today’s football know that Bruno is hurting us massively.

Even in yesterday’s football it was an issue. No top team operates well with a midfield that has a high propensity to hand the ball back to the opposition and allow them back into the game.
Mourinho will be the perfect manager for him and Mou is naturally not the best match for the traditional big clubs.
I believe Bruno is a brilliant player but our dependency on him or his key role should be revisited. Bring in proper competition for him and create a system that caters for varying skill set, luckily Bruno is smart enough to adapt and excel like he is currently doing for Portugal. Instead of indulging his whims and capping our growth, like we’ve done over the years with Rashford and Martial.
We are still operating on the Woodward blueprint for the squad and ETH has confirmed it in his statement of his style at every club is dictated by a combination of his philosophy and the strengths of existing players. In that his statement I’ve accepted he is doomed, unless he chooses to go rogue on the club and deliberately sacrifice the output of our key players.

 

[frostbite]

Look at the stats here, you can clearly seen Fernandes is not only behind Casemiro and Eriksen in terms of progressing the ball, he was behind AWB, Lindelof etc

He didn't do his job yesterday and he was giving the ball away needlessly too. Granted he did make a good pass to Martial

One of the reason we had 2 shots on target all game is because Bruno was not doing his job

I have seen a lot of terrible statistics, and this graph is up there, one of the worst.

Sure, any goalkeeper is "the best" in "ball progression" since he just has to kick the ball and you have "progression". And the striker (Hojlund in our case) is by far the worst of all our players, since there is basically nobody in front of him to "progress the ball" (I guess kicking the ball into the stands doesn't count!).

 

[Sgreddevil]

As a player, he didn't perform up to the minimun requirement he was invisible and contributed nothing in the game. He would have been subbed out if he was not the captain and we had other better alternatives on bench.
As a captain, he didn't do much. I am not certain if he is suitable to be the captain or the role is too stressful on him and affecting his own play. Our past captains like ferdinand and keane would regularly tell the team to focus after scoring a goal because they knew the vulnerability after scoring. That was a common scene in the past. The captain should do that and not over celebrating with the teammates and lose focus. After Arsenal late goal, I also didn't see the drive he show and encouragement given to his mates to push on for equalizer..he just faded with the rest of the team and concede the game is over. We need stronger personality. I would think Martinez, Cas or Varane are better suited for this role but they were not with the club as long as him, probably the reason why he was chosen over them. He will be a good vice captain though as he still can be a good leader at good times and supporting the captain

 

[Champ]

I have seen a lot of terrible statistics, and this graph is up there, one of the worst.

Sure, any goalkeeper is "the best" in "ball progression" since he just has to kick the ball and you have "progression". And the striker (Hojlund in our case) is by far the worst of all our players, since there is basically nobody in front of him to "progress the ball" (I guess kicking the ball into the stands doesn't count!).

Agree with this.

Interesting to see Bruno actually had more progressive passes than Odegaard, but that isn't fitting the narrative of Bruno being poor.

 

[Jeppers7]

Rewatching Arsenals equaliser. Great to see the captain jogging back whilst marking no one and watching what is happening in front of him….then shouting at Eriksen who actually did get back and pulled out of position as he doesn’t have 360 vision when running towards his own goal, watching the build up on the left

 

[Cassidy]

I have seen a lot of terrible statistics, and this graph is up there, one of the worst.

Sure, any goalkeeper is "the best" in "ball progression" since he just has to kick the ball and you have "progression". And the striker (Hojlund in our case) is by far the worst of all our players, since there is basically nobody in front of him to "progress the ball" (I guess kicking the ball into the stands doesn't count!).

Ramsdale isn’t the “best” or even near the best for Arsenal.

Nobody compared Bruno to Onana.

Hojlund played 30 minutes not 90.

You clearly have no clue how to view statistics if these are your gripes with the chart.

Yes strikers are less likely to progress the ball vs a midfielder that is how the game of football is setup. They do progress the ball though. Someone like Jesus who often drops deep and links the play or carries the ball forward of someone like Kane progresses the ball more than someone like Haaland

 

[Cassidy]

Agree with this.

Interesting to see Bruno actually had more progressive passes than Odegaard, but that isn't fitting the narrative of Bruno being poor.

Arsenal made no attempt to progress the ball through the middle. They went wide first by design, Im not convinced its working for them vs last season
Uniteds buildup stalled at midfield and Bruno was worse at progressing the ball than his midfield partners which is confirmed in stats and the eye test

Its a simple observation

 

[zaafi]

Agree with this.

Interesting to see Bruno actually had more progressive passes than Odegaard, but that isn't fitting the narrative of Bruno being poor.

Why is that interesting? Cassidy already pointed it out, but seems you're having issues analysing aspects of the game in its simplest form.

If you think Bruno wasn't poor in this game, then you're even more deluded than I thought. This is Pogue levels of delusion who thinks Bruno should have an assist for Garnacho's goal. The sooner we replace him with an actual midfielder who is able to pass the ball, we're going to be better as a team. But some of you just want one player to be responsible for chance creation.

 

[meamth]

You're spot on in everything you've said. Bruno's inability to retain, be calm with and carry the ball is limiting us severely. He treats the ball like a hot potato, tries to get rid of it as soon as possible - that's just who he is. Bruno needs really space, and is suited for counterattacking football where his Hollywood passes and long passing talent can come to fruition. He brings too much chaos in order for his creativity to be worth it, in my opinion. It puts a ceiling on the team that is not particularly high.

Tifo made a video about it, explained by John Mackenzie:




But that style of football is not really deployed by top teams in the world anymore, all of them are trying to keep the ball as much as possible and try to control the tempo/game. It's just not sustainable in the long run in current football. Consequence of the "Guardiola revolution".

This is one of my favorite threads on this forum and thread creator(@Rozay) encapsulates everything that is wrong about Bruno Fernandes and building a team around him:

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/we-...ague-with-bruno-fernandes-in-the-team.473294/

There was some backlash to this thread and now it's locked but some people agreed with everything that's been said by @Rozay and I'm definitely one of them.

Get rid?