Sorry?
Bruno has by far played most minutes out of Ødegaard, Maddison and De Bruyne in the league. It's not even close, except Ødegaard, who has one season less.
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Sorry?
Bruno has by far played most minutes out of Ødegaard, Maddison and De Bruyne in the league. It's not even close, except Ødegaard, who has one season less.
Fair enough. Although, the point was finishing/shooting. His FBref stats compared to the others are quite low, and we've seen the last two seasons, particularly the last, how bad his finishing have become. There is usually zero technique. Just smashes it.
You've spent the best part of two days berating another poster for not providing an argument for their case and when you are actually presented with a valid argument you are not open to debate? Pathetic
Your attitude of not changing your mind is very childish. Why on earth would a United fan not be open to a United player changing their opinion of him?
Its 2023 and still there are posters who think individual players control the games.
All this "average technique" "zero technique" is just nonsense, not sure why people chose that hill to die.
Not really, but an individual player can make sure you don't control the game.
Well no, he's not going to become a completely different player, is he? That is completely unreasonable.
I don't think what I said is particularly the same as others. I am not just shouting about stats, I am proposing we improve the players (or structure) around him in order to continue to get the best parts of him while also masking his weaknesses. At the minute he seems to be doing too many jobs on top of his own, I don't think the other players you mention have to do this in their teams, else they wouldn't be behind him in almost every metric.
No they don't.
Aye, guy just played an inch perfect rabona cross, but no technique.
Scholes is up there with the best. He’s one of my fav United players ever. Top 3 even but top 5 midfielders I’ve seen. Don’t know about that personally.
Xavi, Zidane, Iniesta, Modric, Kroos, Keane, Busquettes, De Bruyne etc and don’t think he’s quite as good as they were. Skills wise as good as some but he didn’t dominate games like Keane did for example.
It’s still amazing company to perhaps be top 10 potentially past 30 years but you are overhyping our past players a little I believe.
Casemiro is better than Carrick by the way when he’s on form but I’m guessing you would suggest otherwise too?
The problem with our midfield now is balance not talent. Give Sir Alex Bruno and Cas he would have done great things with them no doubt too.
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Worked for Keys
Put McTominay in for Rodri for City, Enzo for Chelsea or Kimmich for Bayern, and tell me they'd control the games as much.
Why didn't same Rodri control game for Atletico Madrid? Just to take the example to other extreme, will Rodri, Enzo or prime Xavi control the game as they did if they were playing under Pulis for Stoke city? or Dyche playing for Burnley?
Do City not control games when Rodri doesn't play?
Why did KdB, Fernandinho, David Silva midfield that wasn't dominating all the midfields suddenly started to dominate when Pep became manager and played the same midfield? KdB, Fernandinho, David Silva was dominated by the midfield with Fellaini in it when we had Van Gaal in 2015-16.
He did, just not to the extent he does for City now. Age, inexperience and learning the role are other factors. He also did for Villarreal, which is why they bought him in the first place, in addition to his defensive qualities. He isn't some random DM that City lucked out on. He was very highly rated in Villarreal for good reason, and it was clear he had huge potential even back then. An obvious transfer we should have made, but oh well. You could also ask why Carrick wasn't controlling midfield at the same age.
I don't know, but likely not. They're playing with far worse players, who are much worse in possession, so essentially it will make it tougher for them to control a midfield with players who aren't on the same level, which is kind of the initial point I was making. Players who often make poor decisions, and unneccessarily giving the ball away because they're not press resistant and want to avoid contact while being prone to losing challenges will make it tougher for the midfield controller to actually control. If we could play like City and Liverpool a few years back who can instantly win back possession after they lose it, it wouldn't be much of a problem, but we're not that team and teams attack us/counter very easily, hence my wish of preferring a 4-3-3.
No, City do not control games of similar high quality without Rodri. In a way, they do, because they have several world class players who are all very good and secure in possession and are great at winning the ball back, but the control fades by a huge margin in comparison.
Pep definitely had huge impact on the midfield - he is after all the best manager in the world - but it's not a secret that the following years, he got incredible support with incoming transfers and acquired players that are comfortable with the ball at their feet and in possession and that looks to control. Not just the midfielders, but in positions all over the field. Laporte, Bernardo Silva, Ruben Dias, Grealish, Gundogan, Mahrez, Walker, etc.
Why we've got this obsession of getting in players who are rash, chaotic and look to create individually is beyond me. There have been so many clear signings we could have made, but we're just not interested. People are satisfied with individuals creating chances, when our whole play is so many levels below the top teams. Genuinely sad to see.
He didn't. Atletico Madrid averaged 49% possession and they were in 11th position in possession stats. He was attempting 63 passes and the moment he signed for City, he averaged 90+ passes. Team, coach plays most important role in controlling the game, not individual player.
No that's not the initial point you made, it was about individual player and now you are talking about team.
They controlled game as good if not better before they signed Rodri and they will control games as good, as long as Pep is their manager.
If KdB played for us, posters like you would be calling him chaotic because we don't have a team or manager who is as good as Pep and controls every game. Not that Bruno is as good as KdB but people would be moaning about him nonstop for losing possession and completing mid 70% passes.
Walker before he moved to city, his pass completion was - 80,78,80% averaging 44, 38, 50 passes per game.
After he moved to City - he averages more than 70 passes per game, completing at 88-90+% passes. How was Walker possession safe player.
Bernardo Silva was completing his passes at 81, 82, 84% before moving to City, post his move his pass completion was 87%=90+%.
Even Ruben Dias, he went from 85-88% completion to mid 90%.
Grealish from 83-84% to 88%
Mahrez was 70s to high 80s and even 90% pass completion.
Laporte went from 85,80,80% to 90+% pass completion.
Almost all the players improved their pass completion and number of passes after joining City and it's because of Pep and the system he plays. It's not just down to single player, that's why they won the league when KdB was out almost all season and also won the league without a CF.
Player have strengths and weakness but largely the way they play is dictated by the system the coach deploys.
Do you have a link for Atlético being 11th when it comes to possession? Not denying it, just finding that a bit odd with their system. And yes, he did, while also having 90.8% completion rate which puts him in the 97th percentile. He was also pretty good at progressing the play with his passing and passing into the final third. Only Koke had more touches than Rodri, and no Atlético player played more passes than him. Additionally, he also made most tackles and ball recoveries, which shows he had other jobs other than just being the controller. He did control the midfield for Atlético, but like I already said, not to the extent he does now. He is extremely good at it now. And it's like you said, the team plays a vital role in controlling the game, not just the individual player, so playing with midfield partners who are fairly reckless in possession would make it more difficult for him to control the midfield.
Yes. You can't control the midfield if you have someone next to you who keeps giving the ball away. That is very inefficient midfield partnership.
I don't really agree with the first part. They had more attacking threat and scored more goals, but their control in midfield has improved since Rodri did. If he doesn't play, they will control the game in other ways, but the midfield will be massively weakened in that aspect.
If KdB played for us, I would never call him chaotic, because he isn't. Posters don't call Bruno chaotic because he has 73.9% pass completion, it's because he attempts wildly unnecessary things that aren't going to succeed and making decisions that aren't thought out. He makes decisions instinctively, which, sometimes, they pay off, but more often than not, they don't. De Bruyne is far from chaotic. He has a very intelligent mind when it comes to football, and has a plan for what he is going to do before he does it. He is also strong and can drive exceptionally with the ball, which Bruno can't do, so he will look to get rid of the ball instead of driving with it to look for a better option.
Walker is a possession safe player because he has the ability to be one. I'm not talking about his pass completion rate before his move to City, but the fact that he is very comfortable with the ball. Pep's system plays a major role, indeed, but he wouldn't magically transform Walker into a possession player if he didn't have the ability. There are a lot of players that played for City under Pep that are good examples to show that.
Again, as for every player you posted pass completion rates for, that is not the point, and it's not really a good way to judge their potential to be great players in possession. Bernardo Silva may have had worse pass completion, but he is one of the most press resistant, secure players in the world, and I'd probably say one of the most difficult players in the world to get the ball from without fouling.
Dias, Grealish, Mahrez and Laporte are also very good in possession. They were before their move to City, and most, if not all, have improved with great help from Pep, but he isn't the reason they're good possession players, in the same way you can't say Gündogan is an excellent possession player because of Pep.
Guardiola got the players that fit with his system and how he wants to play, and it's these players that make up the system that allows him to play the way he wants. He wouldn't be able to get Fred and McTominay to have 92% pass completion with high volume and progressive passing.
All you have done is close your ears and shout bla bla bla. What a waste of time, my time btw.
Yeah, I'm sure you have a problem with wasting your time on a forum with your 36.000 messages.
The arrogance of that post, btw. You didn't even reply properly to my post and this is your response. Absolutely laughable.
Yeah, I'm sure you have a problem with wasting your time on a forum with your 36.000 messages.
The arrogance of that post, btw. You didn't even reply properly to my post and this is your response. Absolutely laughable.
Didn't reply properly? Maybe you have issues reading and understanding posts. Not my problem.
Your entire post was the City players' pass completion rate for their respective teams prior to joining City. Fantastic arguments.
That's as clear cut Argument as you can get to see how players stats improve with playing style, was it too complicated for you to understand? Let me know in advance, will just laugh at you and I'll move on.
The point was never how players improve under Pep, so why were you even talking about that? Clown.
fecking hell how dumb are you. Do you even understand what was discussed? I'm sure you don't. Let me tell you once again, one player don't control the game. It's a team game and it depends on coach and playing style.
Wasted so much time on clowns now
fecking hell how dumb are you. Do you even understand what was discussed? I'm sure you don't. Let me tell you once again, one player don't control the game. It's a team game and it depends on coach and playing style.
Wasted so much time on clowns now
I'm sure Modric or Xavi in the past didn't control the game. It's all about the style and the manager. Am I doing this right? How did you even arrive at that conclusion?
It takes 10 outfield players to be in sync to control the game, no wonder you come up with so much nonsense expecting one player to do it all.
I even gave you Atletico Madrid stats with Rodri in it and how shit they were in possession, same Rodri bosses every midfield now. It's not because of Rodri alone, it's because of 10 other players and the system built by Pep.
Let’s explore your comment…Did anyone defending Pogba, me included ever say anything more than he was one of our better players throughout his time here? Did anyone post chance created stats as the determining factor to everything? Did I back up my posts that he was one of our better players with analysis? Did I research what I posted?That's Pogba's mum so you shouldn't be surprised
The PogFam never forget who displaced Pogba at United
DID I EVER CLAIM THAT POGBA WAS ANYWHERE NEAR BECKHAM OR SCHOLES?
The fact that that lead to stupid taglines and threads and bans from redcafe and advice to tow the line from mods, is more a sad indictment of this site than it is player performance. Go back through game to game. See the lack of polarity on performance then explain why one poster has threads made for saying Pogba has been one of our better players and the likes of Scandi Red think Bruno is as good as Scholes and there’s no threads created.
It isn’t based on reality or ability. It’s based on likeability You utter Colin End.
The thing about you is (not other posters), it doesn't take much to know that you dislike Bruno especially when he does something remotely bad and disappears when he does anything remotely good. All because you had been a massive supporter of Pogba, who by the way were much worse than Bruno overall at United, if he wasn't he'd still be here due to shortage in midfield. The long time posters know this. You know this yourself. You can of course try to hide it by showing only the last few posts to proof your point. But your entire post history is there.
I know how to appreciate a player who's been genuinely contributing (and overall positively) to the club regardless of his shortcomings. Which, I know it sounds crazy, should be the norm considering.. you know you're a club supporter? why would you wanna hate on someone contributing positively to the club you support? tell me which other player we can sign to replace Bruno, who can press, create (and has a crazy stats to back it up), score and is available for a whole season playing 50 games+? if there's none then there's your answer why it's better to get behind him than to shit on him every time he makes a mistake. The club needs him.
Is Pogba in the room with us right now? he's no longer at the club, let it go.
What a pathetic reply.
Well that means you don't have the answer. You just keep moaning about Bruno, even talking shit about him by quoting a post that shows how effective he is at creating chances (which normally would give Utd fans hope that once Hojlund starts playing maybe we'll start seeing those chances being converted into goals). So you're just posting for the sake of moaning and hatred for the player. If you have a view on what should be done instead of calling for his head then maybe it could have been more bearable. But you didn't. I don't get "club fans" that are so obsessed with certain players and hate the others. If anyone contributes to the club in a good way, I'd be supporting that player/coach/staff. Simples.
And another one….Basically ‘I don’t like that you disagreed with the common consensus on Pogba and backed up your arguments with research. And I don’t like that you don’t regard chances created as the be all and end all, despite the fact that your views on Bruno’s performances game to game don’t polarise opinion’
No one’s even mentioned Pogba except you, perhaps you struggle to believe that anyone could critique Bruno game to game, conclude that he is inconsistent and often poor, without that being as a result of Pogba? It’s still all his fault even now
Now imagine I claimed Pogba was as good as Scholes and better than Beckham
That would be thread worthy.
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* Insert crying behind laughing mask meme
Arsenal 3:1 Man Utd
Honestly the guy is embarrassing. I am genuinely embarrassed that this guy is United captain. Twice in stoppage time he frantically threw himself to the ground crying for a free kick when it was clear Taylor wasn’t buying any of his bollocks. This stupidity with lying on the floor whilst arsenal are attacking late in injury time was actually quite repugnant. His performances this season have been disgraceful bar the Forest game.
Absolutely abject. And the worst thing is I can think of poorer performances from him in big away matches
Some good moments in the 2nd half after a disastrous first half.
When we needed him the most in the last 10 minutes he crumbled and kept throwing himself to the ground to buy a foul. We're going nowhere with him as this team's talisman.
When we needed him the most in the last 10 minutes he crumbled and kept throwing himself to the ground to buy a foul. We're going nowhere with him as this team's talisman.
At some point I thought that he had been subbed.
Didn't get the ball much like most of our team, mostly due to what's behind him. He's one of the only players in our team actually passing to the attackers. I do worry though that his body will break down - he plays too fast and too much all the time. Wish we would rotate him before that happens.
He's nto very good dribbler and that will cost us at the top level in his position. Contrary to some I think he had a decent second half. We were pretty bad overall in the first half. Anyway he shouldn't be untouchable, would be happy to see Sancho given chance there..
But he creates chances!
Yeah, against Luton Town and Nottingham.
Yeah, against Luton Town and Nottingham.
Never has the composure for big matches like this, and at this stage of his career I don't think he can improve it.
If we want to control games like this, we have to do it without him in the midfield. Where should we use him? I have no idea
If we want to control games like this, we have to do it without him in the midfield. Where should we use him? I have no idea
Invisible vs top teams as always
O Bruno Bruno, wherefore art thou, Bruno?
O Bruno Bruno, wherefore art thou, Bruno?
Love it when he drops to the floor after losing the ball and stays there whilst we get countered on. Big fan.
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