[Pogue Mahone]

It’s so weird though, even most younger fans have seen the likes of Gerrard struggle in shit teams, despite clearly being a brilliant player.

How anyone can watch us this season and declare one or two players are “the problem” is one of the most mystifying things I can think of.
We can’t play from the back, can’t attack from the wings, have no forward capable of leading a line for a top team, a low defensive line, and a high midfield line that constantly allows oceans of space between them and the back 4… but “Bruno”.
It’s utterly bizarre.

I would absolutely get the Bruno hate if we were a team that controlled most games and we’re good at pressing with most players great at beating the press but where many of our attacking moves fell down at Bruno. But posters are literally saying

“yeah we’re shit in defence, midfield is all over the shop, Rashford is shit, Anyony is crap, Hojlund is nowhere near good enough, but hey, if Bruno was just more careful sometimes…. “

I mean exactly how does that statement finish?

I do get that he’s a frustrating player to watch and he has had some very poor games this season. The madness is in forgetting that a) even good players in good teams have a few bad games every season and b) he’s playing as part of a very very bad team. The idea that he’s our main problem is next level insanity, of course.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

I do get that he’s a frustrating player to watch and he has had some very poor games this season. The madness is in forgetting that a) even good players in good teams have a few bad games every season and b) he’s playing as part of a very very bad team. The idea that he’s our main problem is next level insanity, of course.

Oh absolutely he’s had some bad uns, and a couple of horror shows. Thought he was our worst player for example versus Liverpool and should’ve been subbed at HT.
But as you say, he’s a very good player, playing in a really poor and dysfunctional side, but this idea it’s him and one or two others that make it dysfunctional is absolute madness.

 

[DWelbz19]

He’s had far more than “a few poor games”. Nobody is saying it’s just him, either.

 

[afrocentricity]

I do get that he’s a frustrating player to watch and he has had some very poor games this season. The madness is in forgetting that a) even good players in good teams have a few bad games every season and b) he’s playing as part of a very very bad team. The idea that he’s our main problem is next level insanity, of course.

He's trying to do too much. His "problem" is that when things aren't working he tries to put United on his back and carry us over the line. Sometimes it works (and he gets no love for it) and sometimes it doesn't...... It shouldn't be all on him

 

[Pogue Mahone]

He's trying to do too much. His "problem" is that when things aren't working he tries to put United on his back and carry us over the line. Sometimes it works (and he gets no love for it) and sometimes it doesn't...... It shouldn't be all on him

Definitely. Being captain of such a dysfunctional team is bringing out the worst in him. He wears his heart on his sleeve and plays in a very emotional way, which is a problem when he’s in a team that is so poor in so many areas and constantly on the back foot in every match we play. Yet despite this he is still, by a margin, our best and most productive attacking player.

Stick him in a team that isn’t constantly floundering (Portugal) and you get all the good with much less of the bad. They won 11 consecutive games leading up to their recent 2-0 loss vs Slovenia. In which Bruno didn’t play!

The solution is to fix the obviously broken parts in our team. Replacing Bruno is clearly not a priority if we want a more better, more successful team. Not that you’d think that by the content in this thread.

 

[afrocentricity]

Definitely. Being captain of such a dysfunctional team is bringing out the worst in him. He wears his heart on his sleeve and plays in a very emotional way, which is a problem when he’s in a team that is so poor in so many areas and constantly on the back foot in every match we play. Yet despite this he is still, by a margin, our best and most productive attacking player.

Stick him in a team that isn’t constantly floundering (Portugal) and you get all the good with much less of the bad. The solution is to fix the obviously broken parts in our team. Replacing Bruno is clearly not a priority if we want a more better, more successful team. Not that you’d think that by the content in this thread.

A newbie said something along these lines earlier:

Imagine the stupidity of the average human, then imagine that half of all humans are more stupid than this. Most of them are probably on the cafe right now....

It gave me perspective - deserved a like for it

 

[Lyng]

He had a 90% pass completion in the first half, scored after 31 minutes.
How on Earth was he awful?

Read the rest of the post.

 

[RepardReece]

Bruno would be a lot less frustrating in a well-drilled team.

Anyone focusing criticism on Bruno is seemingly just here to down all of our players.

One of few actually trying on the pitch.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Read the rest of the post.

I did and it’s so bizarre it beggars belief.

Go look at their attacks in the first 30 minutes, no attacking midfielder on the planet could’ve prevented them. How on Earth do you think he could have positioned himself for example to stop the two goals? Or the header on the crossbar.

Here’s the highlights, please tell me what superman attacking midfielder could’ve done to help prevent those attacks in the first 30 minutes? On every single big chance here he’s exactly where you’d expect him to be and honestly, I actually think superman himself in AM couldn’t stop any of those chances.

You’re simply repeating an idea that his positioning causes us problems, despite clear evidence for this game showing his positions had feck all to do with our problems yesterday.

https://www.skysports.com/football/...2-manchester-united-premier-league-highlights

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

I do think he's been poor this season, but he was definitely trying to will the team in that game vs Bournemouth. One of his better games.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

But he is, or rather Ten Hags way of using him, the main reason we are extremely open.

My God, man, you’ve had Jamie Carragher and a bunch of other pundits spell this out for you. The reason we are extremely open is because there’s a gigantic chasm between our base midfielders and our defenders, so teams can simply win the ball in their half and with one pass be running directly at our defence, how the feck do you think an attacking midfield can stop that?

He is all over the pitch and often not where we would need him to be to sustain control and composure. The most dribbled past player in the league.

Not even close, stop making shit up. Not even in the top 20, although you will find plenty of players from sides far above us in the table there, like Foden for example.

https://oddalerts.com/players/england-premier-league/4630

 

[Gabriel Djemba-Bebe]

Of all the players who have played this season only Rasmus and the keeper have a lower pass %

Only Haaland and City's keepers have a lower pass completion % than De Bruyne. They must sell him immediately.

 

[Lyng]

My God, man, you’ve had Jamie Carragher and a bunch of other pundits spell this out for you. The reason we are extremely open is because there’s a gigantic chasm between our base midfielders and our defenders, so teams can simply win the ball in their half and with one pass be running directly at our defence, how the feck do you think an attacking midfield can stop that?




Not even close, stop making shit up. Not even in the top 20, although you will find plenty of players from sides far above us in the table there, like Foden for example.

https://oddalerts.com/players/england-premier-league/4630

He was at least a few weeks ago. And citing Carragher tells everything. He is about as dumb as they come.
Is Bruno part of midfield yes or no?
Is he given a role in Ten Hags tactic where he has to be all over the place? Yes.
Does that leave holes that mean our other midfielders have to cover more ground as well? Yes.
We are completely open in midfield because our tactic is extremely chaotic.
If you read what I said I don't believe Bruno is the issue but rather our tactics.
His utter lack of any kind of resistance to press is the only real problem I have with him but that also only really becomes an issue because of our playstyle.
A more controlled system and players wouldn't look half as bad.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

He was at least a few weeks ago. And citing Carragher tells everything. He is about as dumb as they come.
Is Bruno part of midfield yes or no?
Is he given a role in Ten Hags tactic where he has to be all over the place? Yes.
Does that leave holes that mean our other midfielders have to cover more ground as well? Yes.
We are completely open in midfield because our tactic is extremely

If you can’t understand that Jamie Carragher is bang on there when you watch our football and see the massive chasm between the base midfielders and the defenders then I don’t know what to say to you to be honest, you must be watching a completely different United to me. If you think Carragher is wrong when he claims we press high and defend deep then you’ve completely misunderstood football, that’s exactly how we play every week.
This space created between our base midfielders and our deep defenders means we are constantly bypassed by one pass and no attacking midfielder in the world is stopping that.

You’re still yet to give me an example of how his positioning could’ve stopped any of the big Bournemouth chances in the first half yesterday considering you claimed he was awful for the first 30 minutes despite him having a 90% pass success rate. I sent you the highlights, even watched the extended ones and you can stick prime Iniesta in for Bruno and nothing is changing with our “defending”.

 

[Lyng]

If you can’t understand that Jamie Carragher is bang on there when you watch our football and see the massive chasm between the base midfielders and the defenders then I don’t know what to say to you to be honest, you must be watching a completely different United to me. If you think Carragher is wrong when he claims we press high and defend deep then you’ve completely misunderstood football, that’s exactly how we play every week.
This space created between our base midfielders and our deep defenders means we are constantly bypassed by one pass and no attacking midfielder in the world is stopping that.

You’re still yet to give me an example of how his positioning could’ve stopped any of the big Bournemouth chances in the first half yesterday considering you claimed he was awful for the first 30 minutes despite him having a 90% pass success rate. I sent you the highlights, even watched the extended ones and you can stick prime Iniesta in for Bruno and nothing is changing with our “defending”.

There is a huge space because our midfield and that includes Bruno are way to forward and all over the place. If you don't think Carragher counts Bruno with that midfield then you simply don't understand what he meant.
We have massive open space exactly because our midfield is all over the ship. Yesterday Bruno was higher than Højlund when Bournemouth broke on us and Case was way to high as well. Leaving Kobbie as the lone guy to fend of the entire field in front og our defence on his own. No player can do that in the Prem.
There where several times where they pressured Bruno when he received the ball and due to his complete lack of press resistance he would just instantly fling the ball to a team mate that was completely marked leading to that player losing the ball. Yes the pass would arrive and thus ne successful but it would still lead to a turnover.
If we played a more controlled system he wouldn't be forced in to these situations.
You have to have zero clue about actual football If you don't understand his lack of press resistance is a huge issue in his given free role.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

There is a huge space because our midfield and that includes Bruno are way to forward and all over the place. If you don't think Carragher counts Bruno with that midfield then you simply don't understand what he meant.
We have massive open space exactly because our midfield is all over the ship.

You still haven’t understood it, man. The huge space is because any team that presses high has to have a high defensive line otherwise there’s no possibility of not having an enormous space between the defence and midfield even if you have Lionel fecking Messi at number 10 with Keane and Robson behind him.

The tactic of the high press and low back line is the reason not fecking “Bruno”, ffs.

The “several times he was pressured” is just nonsense, watch the game back, saw it happen once. Yet you had no problem calling him “awful”. Have a word.

 

[Member 128571]

I'd love to see him in the Chalhanoglu/ Pirlo role as Regista in the Inzaghi/ old Conte system, with Mount and Mainoo as Mezzalas in front of him.

Could be a better position for him at this stage in his career.

Him playing so advanced just creates chaos in midfield, especially with Casemiro as a ball-winning-midfielder who doesn't win balls.

 

[Jeppers7]

Feck me….he’s had a good game and you’ll have posters in here giving him player of the season after it.

Poor guy has to play with Luke Shaw, Martinez, Casemiro, Varane, Mainoo, Garnacho, Hojlund.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Feck me….he’s had a good game and you’ll have posters in here giving him player of the season after it.

Absolutely not, everyone here has admitted he’s had a generally poor season in a shit show of a chaotic football tactic experiment.

Stop being daft.

 

[Idxomer]

Was that his first game in the season with 0 key passes?

He was on the ball a lot but didn't do much with it and pushed play in the wrong areas in the 2nd half, good defensively though and he found his shooting boots.

 

[Lyng]

You still haven’t understood it, man. The huge space is because any team that presses high has to have a high defensive line otherwise there’s no possibility of not having an enormous space between the defence and midfield even if you have Lionel fecking Messi at number 10 with Keane and Robson behind him.

The tactic of the high press and low back line is the reason not fecking “Bruno”, ffs.

The “several times he was pressured” is just nonsense, watch the game back, saw it happen once. Yet you had no problem calling him “awful”. Have a word.

Our defensive line was very high yesterday when they where supposed to. But we get broken on when our midfield are on line with our fecking attackers. Blaming the defenders for that is daft.

I said he was awful before his first goal and then our best player after. Read again.

And I am going to spell it out now because apparently I wasn't making my point clear:
Bruno isn't the problem. Ten Hags tactics are.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

I said he was awful before his first goal and then our best player after. Read again.

And I am going to spell it out now because apparently I wasn't making my point clear:
Bruno isn't the problem. Ten Hags tactics are.

I’m sorry but you’ll have to spell this one out for me too…

So for the first 30 minutes yesterday our attacking midfielder who could do nothing even if he was superman to stop the four big chances given away and who had a 90% pass completion rate and who according to you was following the managers tactics to a tee was “awful”.

Is that what you’re saying? Because to me that sounds like a description of an attacking midfielder doing his job as instructed, having no chance of stopping the big chances, and keeping the ball.

Confused.

 

[lost7]

The absolute standards at this club have dropped so much, for so many to idolise him. We've had one of the worst seasons of the past 3 decades, and he's our captain. He's been absolutely dreadful for most of the seasons, while having a couple of good performances (Galatasay in the champions league, winning us the game vs Fulham, yesterday against Bournemouth and literally a few more) and now all of a sudden the criticism on him is unwarranted?

He's our fecking captain and is on 240k a week. How can anyone say he has performed to an acceptable level? He's 29 and only getting worse physically. If we don't sell him in the summer we are stuck with a declining player on crazy wages. Of course he's a problem, just like 90% of our squad.

 

[NZT-One]

Feck me….he’s had a good game and you’ll have posters in here giving him player of the season after it.

Poor guy has to play with Luke Shaw, Martinez, Casemiro, Varane, Mainoo, Garnacho, Hojlund.

I was about to say the same. But I guess, there isn't too much value in chipping into this thread today. His fans are on the watch after an admittedly good game and the circles have started once again

 

[NZT-One]

Squad player with rotation and competition maybe. We have the two midfield slots behind him to sort out first (Mainoo should also be a rotation player to give him space to develop), and many other gaping holes elsewhere

He’s been frustrating, but perhaps a better manager can bring more focus to his play

The question is, is this really going to work in 2024 anymore. The whole idea of having a ten who is then supported by a double pivot isn't the most recent and many sides move away from it. Also, Bruno for all his qualities misses a few key skills for that position, i.e. dribbling and touch. Putting a double pivot behind makes us a good team in theory when we would still be in the year 2014-2016. These days, probably not so much anymore. Also, it isn't like we weren't there before - we all remember the talks about him making Oles 4-2-3-1 look like a 4-2-0-4.

I see the overall point though, if deployed he should be deployed at the tip of the midfield, but I don't think, that is so ideal as many on here make it look like.

I kind of liked Jamie Redknapp's comments yesterday. Yes, Bruno can be frustrating to watch, but he works his butt off, is always available and provides goals and assists. He can improve his overall level, but he is low on our list of problems.

Yesterday's performance was quite good, because he kept things simple and rarely went for the hopeful long balls. Hope to see more of that.

I think, that is the conundrum isn't it. He works his butt off and is available - makes sense and yes, should be prerequisites. And I would agree that he alone isn't in the top3 of our current issues. I think, even the ones promoting selling him in here indicate that he is that big of a problem - the thing is, selling him now would bring in funds, keeping him will not do that.

I can see the points of all his fans, he certainly tried yesterday and his output was good. But at the end of the day, he is part of the team that is producing the results it produces. Granted: the system, his team mates obviously all play their roles but Bruno is just as much part of that dysfunctional as others are. He just can't be deployed as a CM, he is too weak for it. He has be to be part of the attack, even though I have no idea how to make a setup look like that also takes care of his weaknesses. I probably would put him in the right channel instead of Garnacho. He can move to the left and Rashford goes to the bench. Bruno can play similar to Mata back in the day. This way his stamina can be used and he can chip into midfield. The centre of the pitch can then be assembled with players who have more quality on the ball like our Captain.

 

[Gabriel Djemba-Bebe]

Feck me….he’s had a good game and you’ll have posters in here giving him player of the season after it.

Poor guy has to play with Luke Shaw, Martinez, Casemiro, Varane, Mainoo, Garnacho, Hojlund.

I mean... yes? Varane and Casemiro's legs have gone and they both look like they're in semi retirement, Shaw and Martinez have been injured for more than half of the season, Garnacho and Hojlund are raw and inconsistent.

If we had replaced Bruno with an average PL midfielder last summer then we'd be bottom half of the table right now.

 

[Lyng]

I’m sorry but you’ll have to spell this one out for me too…

So for the first 30 minutes yesterday our attacking midfielder who could do nothing even if he was superman to stop the four big chances given away and who had a 90% pass completion rate and who according to you was following the managers tactics to a tee was “awful”.

Is that what you’re saying? Because to me that sounds like a description of an attacking midfielder doing his job as instructed, having no chance of stopping the big chances, and keeping the ball.

Confused.

He had several passes that put his team mates under immense pressure because he was pressured. That was awful but also directly because of the style of play we have. The two go hand in hand.
Bruno is our best player but has had a very bad season. My claim is that it's because of the chaos ball and not because of Bruno. Case in point in matches where he has dropped deeper and played more as a fixed deeper lying playmaker is when he has been at his sparkling best this season, sadly it seems Ten Hag is hell bent on not allowing any form of structure in this team.

 

[golden_blunder]

Bruno would be a lot less frustrating in a well-drilled team.

Anyone focusing criticism on Bruno is seemingly just here to down all of our players.

One of few actually trying on the pitch.

Agreed. I feel the same with Maguire. He’s putting the effort in. There is of course a different argument about whether he can play this tactic but that’s a different thread.

effort wise I feel that Rashford and Casemiro are the 2 not putting the effort in

 

[Lash]

He had several passes that put his team mates under immense pressure because he was pressured. That was awful but also directly because of the style of play we have. The two go hand in hand.
Bruno is our best player but has had a very bad season. My claim is that it's because of the chaos ball and not because of Bruno. Case in point in matches where he has dropped deeper and played more as a fixed deeper lying playmaker is when he has been at his sparkling best this season, sadly it seems Ten Hag is hell bent on not allowing any form of structure in this team.

Ten Hag could easily tell us to sit deeper and get men behind the ball and counter, but that's not the football we want to play. His biggest issue has been the recruitment and injuries, which have meant to play high pressing and pressing trap oriented transitional football, he's not got the squad to where it should be. Bruno is an absolutely perfect player for the football we're trying to play, there's just no one in midfield or defence that can cover the large spaces and our front line is horrifically out of form.

 

[afrocentricity]

Agreed. I feel the same with Maguire. He’s putting the effort in. There is of course a different argument about whether he can play this tactic but that’s a different thread.

effort wise I feel that Rashford and Casemiro are the 2 not putting the effort in

Rashford was visible putting in effort yesterday, for what it's worth

 

[golden_blunder]

Rashford was visible putting in effort yesterday, for what it's worth

One match out of?

I’m taking the full season as the sample size

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

He had several passes that put his team mates under immense pressure because he was pressured. That was awful

Suspected you were making this up just as with your bogus claim he’s the most dribbled past player in the league, but the 90% pass success didn’t fit together with your claim he was awful for the first half hour.
Have just rewatched the first 30 and can confirm you’re simply not being truthful again, why ?

 

[lost7]

One match out of?

I’m taking the full season as the sample size

Rashford is genuinely an embarassment to the badge, should be sold asap. Bruno on the other hand should get his flowers because he's always given 100% effort whenever I've seen him, but also needs to be sold because he's getting older and declining every season. He's like Coutinho for Liverpool, a good player but replacing him with a more effective midfielder will make us better

 

[afrocentricity]

One match out of?

I’m taking the full season as the sample size

Fair enough, I'm hoping it'll carry on

 

[Djemba-Djemba]

Never ever gives less than 100%, even when he's played like shite he always tries his hardest.

By far the most productive attacker in the team, he's scored 4 equalisers in the last 3 games for example.

Even this season in a shockingly bad side his stats are still good.

 

[Lyng]

Suspected you were making this up just as with your bogus claim he’s the most dribbled past player in the league, but the 90% pass success didn’t fit together with your claim he was awful for the first half hour.
Have just rewatched the first 30 and can confirm you’re simply not being truthful again, why ?

Nah you haven't. If you had and paid attention it would be easy for you to spot them. There was 1 to Kobbie. 1 to Dalot, 1 back to Maguire.

 

[Scandi Red]

Even this season in a shockingly bad side his stats are still good.

True. 21 goals/assists is acceptable for a good team. But for a dysfunctional team like ours it's actually very good. And productivity is (in my opinion) not even among his biggest strengths. They are merely a natural byproduct of him being a good footballer. They come as a "reward" for his hard work and creativity.

 

[Lyng]

Suspected you were making this up just as with your bogus claim he’s the most dribbled past player

Go to 7.30

 

[golden_blunder]

Fair enough, I'm hoping it'll carry on

Unfortunately it is so near to the end of the season so even if he played well until then, the question will remain is it a purple patch or do we hold onto him for next season? It’s a risk either way.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Go to 7.30

Not sure you even understand what you are pointing out, where does it say he’s the most dribbled past player in the league?