I said even last summer that a shrewd operating club would have sold him at the time for huge money and happily freshened up the midfield.
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Jamie (@Vault Dweller) get the depressing job of reviewing United's 3-0 loss at Old Trafford to Liverpool. They discuss what went wrong, Casemiro's day to forget, and the pressure now on Erik Ten Hag. They also take some time to give McTominay a proper farewell, and give their overall thoughts on the Summer Transfer Window.
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I said even last summer that a shrewd operating club would have sold him at the time for huge money and happily freshened up the midfield.
Come on Saudi, bail us out for a few players.
Bruno would fetch a good fee, probably one of the most sellable players at the club, yet the one who could easily be replaced.
First out of the door for me (Martial is gone anyway). Replace him and we improve instantly.Antony too.
Bruno would fetch a good fee, probably one of the most sellable players at the club, yet the one who could easily be replaced.
First out of the door for me (Martial is gone anyway). Replace him and we improve instantly.Antony too.
It'll be interesting to see what happens to our chance creation if Bruno does leave near term. Will we find a new way of playing that compensates? Or will we just go back to what we were when Ole took over and people figured out that we just weren't all that, especially without Pogba.
I’ll tell you what will happen. We might start playing well as a team. Shocking? Isn’t it? God forbid, we might even start controlling the game and tempo.
Btw where do you find the “chances created” BS stat anyway? Because I believe every corner that gets a Utd head first is a big chance?
It’s common for a ‘star’ player to leave and the selling club start playing better as they stop obsessing about finding their main man.
happened through the years. Everton were relegation team when Rooney was there and improved after he was gone. The Ruud - Saha shift had us playing better. Tottenham improved at the start of this season without kane. Sure there’s countless more
we wouldn’t miss him
Moving Bruno on has to coincide with a change in approach towards a more proactive possession based style of play. Simply moving him on but playing the same style won't make us any better.
Except that he's not the target man that his teammates are always trying to find. Just end this anti-Bruno agenda.
Yeah, it’s obviously the potent attacking threat we pose at corners that’s making Bruno look good!
No no, it’s obviously correct and we’re all blind. And yeah, Bruno is creating big chances every game and Hoijland is starved of service at the same time. Excellent logic.
Maybe check out how these rubbish stats are calculated in the first place.
You’re the expert. Enlighten me. You seem to have a much better grasp of how these stats are collated. Tell me more about all these corners landing on the head of Manchester United players.
Do you want to hear something crazy?
United created better chances per game in 19/20 before Bruno came.
Don't think Bruno was the issue.
It's almost as if Bruno's role in the team has changed since then.
Share the stats, please. Also, who was the best chance creator that season and how many chances did he create? How far ahead was he of the 2nd best chance creator?
Just sharing these stats will answer a lot for you.
He’s obviously a good player. He’s a risk taker, but that isn’t automatically a bad thing. He shouldn’t be captain though. A captain should be the one who rallies the troops when we’re down, who leads by example. Bruno is more likely to throw in the towel and strop. He’s the kind of player who needs a strong captain to get him in line, the fact that he’s supposed to play that captain role is kind of comical.
I agree with this but we’ve ended up in a fecked up situation where there is no other, better candidate. Because anyone else who could potentially take the role is either not guaranteed a spot in our best XI, regularly injured, or both. I guess, maybe, Onana is the next best option?
Martinez all day when he’s back
Yep. The great title winning list of 2023. All that list shows is over reliance on an individual don’t necessarily equal a winning formula.
True. And that’s probably one of the biggest problems we’ve had over the years, a lack of leaders on the pitch. The ones we have had, are usually old, injury prone, and well past their best. Its definitely one of the reasons why the players have habitually given up on managers so often and why we’ve had problems in the dressing room. A Keane figure would never have allowed that.
What a thoroughly underwhelming list of players. Strange that no successful sides have players on there.
Why does it matter who was the best chance creator? I'm talking as a team in a specific reply to the point made about United before Bruno. United xG that season was better per game before Bruno's signing (1.66 vs 1.58)*. It's not much difference but that was with Pogba, Shaw, and Martial missing for months at the time. Our no.10 was either Pereira or Lingard. The team was underperforming in front of goal. Martial and Greenwood changed that in the 2nd half of the season.
With few deviations like LVG's 2nd season, United have been basically the same in terms of creating chances since Fergie retired. No one can guarantee that getting rid of Bruno will make the team create more chances but I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be worse.
The stats are from Fbref.
People need to learn that correlation does not equal causation. Just because there exists examples of good players leaving a team followed by said team winning more games, it does in no way prove that that one player was the problem all along.
Selling Bruno at the current stage of his career will always be the wrong decision unless he tries to stage a coup or something like that.
Selling Bruno at the current stage of his career will always be the wrong decision unless he tries to stage a coup or something like that.
Yeah. You are so right. People really have to understand that.
And from what I understood, nobody was talking about him being "the problem". Topic was the fixation on chances created and key passes. And some "people" have to remind themselves, that it isn't individual stats that will bring us points. Its the teams output after all. And when having a player as great as some "people" proclaim he is, is still leading to us being behind teams with lesser players or at least without such a gem, the fixation on individual stats should, at the very least, be recognized as potentially problematic.
If only "people" would admit that to themselves from time to time.
Or just act like a normal person and take positive stats for what they are: evidence of a player doing something well. No need to overcomplicate things. As funny as it is to laugh at the prospect of Bayern suddenly not winning trophies, only a fool would blame Kane.
Positive stats can never be negative. At the absolute worst they can be used to highlight how a single player is forced to carry a too heavy load. But guess what: that is not the player's fault! And the solution is sure as hell not to sell the player. You add more good players. And probably a better manager (if he for whatever reason insists that only one player is allowed to create).
x1000000.
Be much more useful to get the % of chances created to surrendering possession.
good point
Just sign better players and that change will naturally happen with or without Bruno.
It's that simple to me.
So glad that his supporters are outnumbering the detractors and rightly so.
The Maguire of our midfield. I said this in 2022 October. People will try to make stories around him, go round in circles but the facts remains we will end up with the same same storyline.
With Bruno we can not win anything big. Without match control you can not auto-pilot in over 50+ matches in a season. It's impossible. It can't happen. It's not rocket science.
Sustainable success means sustainable control in matches. You need to win over 40+ matches in a season to have a successful campaign..
The question is How do you win 40+ games in a season? What's the strategy? The plan? How do you plan to win 30 games in a PL season + around 8 games in UCL and another 5 on cups competitions?
How do you go about that? With Bruno playing football like ping pong?
you will wait for a very long time.
Let's keep waiting and see how a Bruno Captained team will be successful
With Bruno we can not win anything big. Without match control you can not auto-pilot in over 50+ matches in a season. It's impossible. It can't happen. It's not rocket science.
Sustainable success means sustainable control in matches. You need to win over 40+ matches in a season to have a successful campaign..
The question is How do you win 40+ games in a season? What's the strategy? The plan? How do you plan to win 30 games in a PL season + around 8 games in UCL and another 5 on cups competitions?
How do you go about that? With Bruno playing football like ping pong?
you will wait for a very long time.Let's keep waiting and see how a Bruno Captained team will be successful
I don't like the way Bruno is playing, but we shouldn't be selling him, because he is vaulable asset. We should try changing the way he is playing, but I don't think that comes with Ten Hag, we will first need a new sane manager who can see that this style of football isn't correct way.
Good point.
Also checking that list, except the last two most of teams are struggling to score lot of goals(funnily enough), and also conceede more goals than their rivals around. It's like there is correlation with having midfielder who tries so many killer passes and being the team prone to conceeding lot of goals, hmm...
Lots of these created chances are Bruno's corners and set pieces. Stop embarassing yourself by undermining others.
Good point.
Also checking that list, except the last two most of teams are struggling to score lot of goals(funnily enough), and also conceede more goals than their rivals around. It's like there is correlation with having midfielder who tries so many killer passes and being the team prone to conceeding lot of goals, hmm...
Lots of these created chances are Bruno's corners and set pieces. Stop embarassing yourself by undermining others.
Bruno needs to be managed and not worshipped by the next manager (if EtH loses his job)....
how many of the chances created figure are from corners then? Sounds like you know.
I'd rather the next coach prioritise playing Bruno off the striker than Scott McTominay...
I don't know, but I have checked chalkboards from few games(you can find my post from last week somewhere), and they are counting lot of corners that end up as any kind of shot as chance created.
Not only do I think he’s mostly incapable of changing the way he plays (he’s a 30 year old seasoned player who has been playing this way forever) — changing how he plays would make him massively redundant.
He’s not particularly quick, he’s a poor dribbler and at shielding the ball when pressured (which is normally why he passes very early), and his short passing game is so inconsistent. I don’t really know what he offers if you don’t just leave him to his own devices as a no.10.
He’s got a freakish engine and he sees the pass early — if you leave him as a free roaming player to run around and punt the ball he’ll tally up these Statman David and OPTA stats that get eaten up.
Well if you don't know its a bit much to suggest another poster is embarrassing himself by saying we rarely create from corners.
Every United fan on the planet knows we're terrible at it.
For me, anything is better than this style of football he is playing at the moment. He doesn't have to play every game, he can rotate long term with Mount if he doesn't listen, but I am sure he is capable of playing box to box midfielder who is playing it more safer and passing it wide and playing more back passes rather than gung ho everytime he receives the ball. I remember him being much calmer and safer with the ball when he arrived here, or am I imagining things?
I agree about his negatives like being shite under pressure and being slow, but I believe we can use his endless running in far more prolific way.
Bruno is definitely capable of changing the way he plays.. I think the comments Ten Hag has made about the tactical set up indicates that he’s given Bruno a free role to almost do whatever he wants to make us a transition (vibes) team.
He’s a very good player who 2-3 seasons ago was a top 10 player in the world. Simple tactical changes could instantly help the way we play.. getting rid of him for me isn’t the answer.
He’s a very good player who 2-3 seasons ago was a top 10 player in the world. Simple tactical changes could instantly help the way we play.. getting rid of him for me isn’t the answer.
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