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2020-21 Performances


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6.4 Season Average Rating
Appearances
58
Goals
28
Assists
17
Yellow cards
7
Status
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i’m betting on the fact that the glazer need to spend to at least try to fix things with the fans…
They'll spend like they always have. We bought a backup for Bruno this season for instance, but he's been barely used.

I don't know what further rotation signings will achieve unless they're of the same quality as the first 11, and that's not easy to come by.
 
I don’t trust Ole to rotate in a risky enough way to get plenty of minutes into the squad whoever is back up. It’s just the way he is. Tuanzebe had 2 bad matches this season but he’s been good apart from that. There’s no reason to play Maguire in every minute of every single game. Develop Donny. Use Pogba instead of Bruno for the odd match. they were solid options for nearly the whole season. We can’t afford to buy a bench of 50 million quid players. We need to boost the value of the players we have as backup or move them on for players who can actually challenge for a spot.
 
United has never been a club that went for players like that to play that sort of style. We've always been more for the direct types like Bruno. One isn't necessarily better than the other. You just don't like the type of player which is fine, but also weird because it's literally what we've always been.
That's the problem. We need to evolve. And I'm not saying get rid of Bruno or anything, but we need to put more emphasis on our teams general play instead of hoping an individual will produce brilliant stats like Bruno. If we cut down on just giving it to so-and-so in the hopes that they produce some magic, and focus on implementing a system that brings out a cohesive team, our players will still get impressive stats anyway because we'll create more as a result.

Nevermind the Barcelona schooling, but I would've hoped that the Athletic Bilbao one in 2012 (& City that year, too) would've prompted us to sort out our dated style. Nearly 10 years later and we still haven't adjusted.
 
Hes been probably our best player along with Shaw all season, both though fell off it in last few games, it was noticable and I cannot blame them after long season 61 games I think and scheduled last few games of the season was nonsense, hampered everything. But Bruno has been top class for UTD.
This is how the season will be reported for Bruno. It’s more the last few months in reality. Since December. So six months. There’s been the odd good game and his stats are unreal. But his performances haven’t been great at all bar the odd game here and there.
 
Brilliant signing and one of the few that you'd back to do SOMETHING in a game, regardless of how he's playing. Also one that you'd never question leaves it all out there on the pitch...never stops running and his pressing from the front is invaluable for us. All that said, I do think his stats have covered a few poor performances over the course of the season. Everyone is entitled to an off day, of course (him more than most) but the drop off in quality and attacking efficacy when he's not at it is significant and worrying. We lack ideas and invention without him and become more one dimensional and predictable. Would be nice to have more creativity in the final third of the pitch... Pogba (when played in his best position and on his game) provides this but aside from that we're a little short.
 
Hes been probably our best player along with Shaw all season, both though fell off it in last few games, it was noticable and I cannot blame them after long season 61 games I think and scheduled last few games of the season was nonsense, hampered everything. But Bruno has been top class for UTD.

Very true
 
i’m betting on the fact that the glazer need to spend to at least try to fix things with the fans…

I think he was talking about the fact Ole isn’t going to make substitutions and rotate the squad. VDB was his Bruno alternative and we know what he did with him.
 
I think he was talking about the fact Ole isn’t going to make substitutions and rotate the squad. VDB was his Bruno alternative and we know what he did with him.

i don’t think we really know what happened with VDB.You can argue about whether Ole is the right man or not, but his man management is something almost everyone agrees on. Not sure how VDB has been performing in training.
 
I can’t wait for him to move on. He’s Jose Mourinho on the football pitch.
I don’t really understand the Jose comparison, but one thing I will say is he really isn’t as great as people make out. He plays bad a lot. Like a lot a lot. As in, pretty much every game. I can barely think of 5 good performances this season.

He’s a stat machine though, so I’ll give him that. He fails the eye test almost every time. I don’t know why it’s so controversial to say this. It’s treated like blasphemy. To me the Eric comparisons are blasphemy, he’s nowhere near.

Playing him as a 10 is detrimental to the team. We need to shift to a 433 next season. I think he’ll be much better as an 8. He doesn’t have the passing or the creativity to be a 10, he basically just plays as a second striker.
 
I don’t really understand the Jose comparison, but one thing I will say is he really isn’t as great as people make out. He plays bad a lot. Like a lot a lot. As in, pretty much every game. I can barely think of 5 good performances this season.

He’s a stat machine though, so I’ll give him that. He fails the eye test almost every time. I don’t know why it’s so controversial to say this. It’s treated like blasphemy. To me the Eric comparisons are blasphemy, he’s nowhere near.

Playing him as a 10 is detrimental to the team. We need to shift to a 433 next season. I think he’ll be much better as an 8. He doesn’t have the passing or the creativity to be a 10, he basically just plays as a second striker.

Well, it is hard to take people seriously at times. I mean Bruno might go shite next season (in stats wise). Why not just wait till to suggest some ridiculous shite like play a 4 3 3 where almost no top team play nowadays?

Even if he plays as a second striker, his stats justifies where he plays. Let's take out a guy who get that kind of stats so that we can be more creatives (and get more goals). Yea, who the feck will come and do that?
 
Well, it is hard to take people seriously at times. I mean Bruno might go shite next season (in stats wise). Why not just wait till to suggest some ridiculous shite like play a 4 3 3 where almost no top team play nowadays?

Even if he plays as a second striker, his stats justifies where he plays. Let's take out a guy who get that kind of stats so that we can be more creatives (and get more goals). Yea, who the feck will come and do that?
Real Madrid won the Champions League 4 times in 5 years playing a 4-3-3. City & Liverpool achieved nearly 100 point seasons 2 years in a row playing 4-3-3.

His stats would dry up but his overall game & the teams performance would be better if he was deeper.
 
I don’t really understand the Jose comparison, but one thing I will say is he really isn’t as great as people make out. He plays bad a lot. Like a lot a lot. As in, pretty much every game. I can barely think of 5 good performances this season.

He’s a stat machine though, so I’ll give him that. He fails the eye test almost every time. I don’t know why it’s so controversial to say this. It’s treated like blasphemy. To me the Eric comparisons are blasphemy, he’s nowhere near.

Playing him as a 10 is detrimental to the team. We need to shift to a 433 next season. I think he’ll be much better as an 8. He doesn’t have the passing or the creativity to be a 10, he basically just plays as a second striker.
:lol:
 
Real Madrid won the Champions League 4 times in 5 years playing a 4-3-3. City & Liverpool achieved nearly 100 point seasons 2 years in a row playing 4-3-3.

His stats would dry up but his overall game & the teams performance would be better if he was deeper.
What is a 4 3 3 system to you, btw? I just need to know how you see it before I attempt to reply to that.
 
Like Grealish or Mount type of player. That is unless you feel that a 10s role is simply G+A.

For me, personally, I’d prefer a player who is good in tight spaces, who has the most touches in the team in most games and plays as many 5 yard passes as he plays 50. Someone who plays a one-touch game and can beat a man. I’d gladly sacrifice some goals and assists for that.
G/A is all people look at these days. People were putting Rashford in the PL TOTY despite him having his worst season by far. Nobody actually watches football anymore, it’s just stats.
 
GK
RB CB CB LB
DM
CM CM
RW CF LW​
Alright. I would like that formation too in most games. But, we do not have the DM here. Also, whenever we play 4 2 3 1 with Pogba, Pogba stays higher to take some creativity role so it is similar.

The issue here is not Bruno playing here or there or Bruno having good stats. It is plain obvious that we have no one else to do the creating chances when he is off. Pogba can do it but maybe for 20 games in a season which is not enough.

The issue would solve if we have a different type of Winger and a CM who can pass more consistently. Taking Bruno off would be fine if we have a better player than him at work rate, chance creating and G+A. We have none. Not to mention in that formation, both CMs have to work really hard.

Point is we are not as good as those champion teams even if we play like them (obviously) and it is not due to Bruno (obviously).
 
I can't remember a match where Bruno has been captain and performed well.

He was certainly off the boil in the final, and wasted a lot of his energy throughout the game complaining to the referee.

As for winning the coin toss and then actually choosing to go second in the shootout... unbelievable.

I am yet to be convinced that he is a big-star player, as so far he has failed to turn up when it matters most.
 
I don’t really understand the Jose comparison, but one thing I will say is he really isn’t as great as people make out. He plays bad a lot. Like a lot a lot. As in, pretty much every game. I can barely think of 5 good performances this season.

He’s a stat machine though, so I’ll give him that. He fails the eye test almost every time. I don’t know why it’s so controversial to say this. It’s treated like blasphemy. To me the Eric comparisons are blasphemy, he’s nowhere near.

Playing him as a 10 is detrimental to the team. We need to shift to a 433 next season. I think he’ll be much better as an 8. He doesn’t have the passing or the creativity to be a 10, he basically just plays as a second striker.

The Jose comment was tongue and cheek. But basically meant he’s a pragmatic footballer in the sense he’s not very good on the eye to watch unless he’s fizzing countless balls forward.

I’m not going to pretend though I do like him... but what I don’t like is his ‘god’ like status when he doesn’t perform like an elite player. It makes us look bad as a fanbase when judging players. However I don’t believe that’s the case I just believe people have there own agendas and therefore want to milk this more than it is.
 
Our best player this season. Hopefully he will have an ever better next season with similar or better stats but with more consistency in his play and less cheap possession give away, plus better performances in big games. We have plenty of problems to sort for next season but he is not one of them.
 
I don’t really understand the Jose comparison, but one thing I will say is he really isn’t as great as people make out. He plays bad a lot. Like a lot a lot. As in, pretty much every game. I can barely think of 5 good performances this season.

He’s a stat machine though, so I’ll give him that. He fails the eye test almost every time. I don’t know why it’s so controversial to say this. It’s treated like blasphemy. To me the Eric comparisons are blasphemy, he’s nowhere near.

Playing him as a 10 is detrimental to the team. We need to shift to a 433 next season. I think he’ll be much better as an 8. He doesn’t have the passing or the creativity to be a 10, he basically just plays as a second striker.
Brave shout. I fully agree with everything I’ve seen you say on the subject. No doubt statistically his numbers are phenomenal but I find myself watching him and getting really frustrated with him and the positions he takes up or the moves he doesn’t make. Throw in the mediocre passing and to me it adds up to not playing all that well.

I find it hard to put it in to words but I view him as a problem in the team and partially responsible for why it doesn’t perform as well as it should do. He should for me play more as an 8. Get involved in midfield more, move the ball about more and make better runs and options for people. I think if he did these things and played in a more measured manner we as a team would vastly improve.

I don’t believe Pogba is the one to build that partnership with but maybe VDB could do something. I just feel like if we really want to improve he needs to adjust certain things in his game and we and he will probably go to another level. Here hoping others will also raise their game and what they do along with him.
 
I don’t really understand the Jose comparison, but one thing I will say is he really isn’t as great as people make out. He plays bad a lot. Like a lot a lot. As in, pretty much every game. I can barely think of 5 good performances this season.

He’s a stat machine though, so I’ll give him that. He fails the eye test almost every time. I don’t know why it’s so controversial to say this. It’s treated like blasphemy. To me the Eric comparisons are blasphemy, he’s nowhere near.

Playing him as a 10 is detrimental to the team. We need to shift to a 433 next season. I think he’ll be much better as an 8. He doesn’t have the passing or the creativity to be a 10, he basically just plays as a second striker.
Agreed.
 
He reminds me of Alexis Sanchez at Arsenal.

Key to the attack, hard worker, always moaning at teammates, tries the spectacular ball often, etc. Quite a few similarities, although I do think Alexis was a better player overall.

Given that Alexis worked as a false 9, maybe that's what Bruno should be because with him as a 10 our buildup is poor. Donny right behind Bruno would theoretically be a good balance of sensible buildup and risk-taking.
 
Bruno is no doubt an effective player. He can punish you with long shots and he's lethal inside the box as well. What he does not do much is dribbling and do one-two layoffs.

Meanwhile, Alexis seems to be doing decently. He has 30 goals and assists for Inter since joining them. Considering that he barely has much 90 min games, his output is not bad for someone mainly used as a substitute.

UpRJ7wirIM0
 
Well, it is hard to take people seriously at times. I mean Bruno might go shite next season (in stats wise). Why not just wait till to suggest some ridiculous shite like play a 4 3 3 where almost no top team play nowadays?

Funny as it's exactly the other way round.
 
Funny as it's exactly the other way round.
You just can't look at the formation. The way they play matter. No team plays with a single DM operating alone like United fans suggest.

We do NOT have personals to play supposed 4-3-3 of any kind at this moment without losing the balance at the back.
 
This thread :wenger:

Crazy that he's played 79 games in the 11 months between the football restart last June and the Europa League final. Add in 3-7 games games for the Euros and he'll have played close 85 games in that period. For a guy as hard working as him, that's fecked. Also it's crazy how he's managed to avoid injuries (or play through them). Whatever the case, it's clear to me that we need to rotate him a bit more to keep him sharper, but generally he's undoubtedly a world class player for me. He's one of the most creative players in world football, he gets involved all the time, he scores loads of goals and of course the best penalty taker around. But take away his pens and he'd still be ridiculously productive (before people say it's only because of penalties without realizing he'd still have 15 goals for the season).

I get it, he has some sloppy passes now and then and his pass accuracy is in the low-mid 70's... but he more than makes up for a few misplaced passes per game with his on the ball impact, his productivity, and his work rate.

I love how people in here have been saying without his productivity he wouldn't be anything special. Ok so without his goals and assists? What would Ronaldo be without goals and assists? Messi? If you pretend like he missed his chances and his team mates missed the chances he set up for them and just look at underlying stats, he still blows it out of the park. Per 90 minutes, compared to all attacking midfielders and wingers in the big 5 leagues and European competitions over the past year, he ranks:
https://fbref.com/en/players/507c7bdf/Bruno-Fernandes
  • 98th percentile in expected assists
  • 71st percentile in non penalty expected goals
  • 89th percentile in non penalty xG + xA
  • 97th percentile in passes completed
  • 96th percentile in key passes
  • 99th percentile in passes in the final 3rd
  • 96th percentile in passes into the penalty area
  • 98th percentile in progressive passes
  • 98th percentile in through balls completed between defenders
  • 93rd percentile in "shot creating actions"
  • 93rd percentile in attacking 3rd "pressures"
  • 88th percentile in midfield 3rd "pressures"
  • Respectable defensive stats (63rd for tackles and interceptions, 76 for clearances
  • 99th percentile in touches per 90 minutes
  • 78th and 84th for miscontrolling the ball and being dispossessed (so pretty good in comparison to all players on his area of the pitch)
  • 98th percentile in receiving passes
  • 87th percentile in progressive passes received
And so on. He's a fecking brilliant attacking midfielder when you take away the actual goals and assists if you think they are flukey, as he moves into great positions to receive the ball, always makes himself available, gets in great positions to move up the pitch regularly, and works hard defensively and runs constantly, stays fit, is an attackers dream in that he is always finding them in advanced positions more than almost anybody in Europe...

The guy is literally in the 98th percentile or above in so many key attacking and creativity underlying stats, which of course leads to a brilliant goal and assists count. But importantly is also at the top in touches per game showing he gets involved and acts like a midfielder still (compared to strikers who would have much fewer touches).

Oh, and for those obsessing over pass accuracy:
  • Jack Grealish - 78.8% from 43.29 passes per 90 (34.1 completed)
  • Kevin de Bruyne - 75.5% from 64.29 passes per 90 (48.5 completed)
  • Bruno Fernandes - 73.5% from 65.31 passes per 90 (48 completed)
  • Thomas Muller - 73.3% from 49.76 passes per 90 (36.5 completed)
Negligible difference between Bruno and De Bruyne in pass accuracy, while both are at the very best rank in the world for all the ball progressive passing and creative stats possible, while also being very good in terms of individual xG as well. Like what more do you want? 2% more pass accuracy? So tighten up 1 pass per game? Get the feck out of here. You take into account that almost the entirety of our creativity revolves around him and the others behind tend to play it safe, and he does a good job at keeping up with the demand we need from him at that position. Add in that he's played 79 games since the football restart... and well, you have a world class player.
 
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G/A is all people look at these days. People were putting Rashford in the PL TOTY despite him having his worst season by far. Nobody actually watches football anymore, it’s just stats.
Nah, more like stats can just be used to disprove some really bad opinions, such as this criticism that Bruno is now overrated all of a sudden. For whatever strange reason if you want to ignore 50 actual goals and assists, fine, look at the underlying stats and he is still among the very very best attacking midfielders in terms of creativity, ball progression, involvement per game in both passes and touches per game, and adds a quantity of chances/shots/xG/goals for himself which many #10's can't reach. He's not a dribbler like David Silva and he has a 2% worse pass completion rate than De Bruyne (on marginally more passes!) though, so let's shit on him (even ignoring that Ole plays a direct style and Pep plays a possession style).

He's a world class player. He's up there with De Bruyne as the best attacking midfielders in the world due to a mix of overall involvement, creativity and goalscoring. The almost negligible statistical difference in pass completion % can easily be explained by Pep vs Ole play style and roles in the team, and and Bruno gets dispossessed fewer than De Bruyne anyway despite playing in the position with the least amount of time and space on the ball.

People watch football and see Bruno constantly bailing us out, scoring or creating goals every game. Then people see criticisms of him because he gave it away a few times and say he's nowhere close to De Bruyne (who they don't watch regularly or scrutinize as much as they do Bruno), without realizing the negligible or non existent difference in actual "sloppiness" between the two players.
 
Last edited:
This thread :wenger:

Crazy that he's played 79 games in the 11 months between the football restart last June and the Europa League final. Add in 3-7 games games for the Euros and he'll have played close 85 games in that period. For a guy as hard working as him, that's fecked. Also it's crazy how he's managed to avoid injuries (or play through them). Whatever the case, it's clear to me that we need to rotate him a bit more to keep him sharper, but generally he's undoubtedly a world class player for me. He's one of the most creative players in world football, he gets involved all the time, he scores loads of goals and of course the best penalty taker around. But take away his pens and he'd still be ridiculously productive (before people say it's only because of penalties without realizing he'd still have 15 goals for the season).

I get it, he has some sloppy passes now and then and his pass accuracy is in the low-mid 70's... but he more than makes up for a few misplaced passes per game with his on the ball impact, his productivity, and his work rate.

I love how people in here have been saying without his productivity he wouldn't be anything special. Ok so without his goals and assists? What would Ronaldo be without goals and assists? Messi? If you pretend like he missed his chances and his team mates missed the chances he set up for them and just look at underlying stats, he still blows it out of the park. Per 90 minutes, compared to all attacking midfielders and wingers in the big 5 leagues and European competitions over the past year, he ranks:
https://fbref.com/en/players/507c7bdf/Bruno-Fernandes
  • 98th percentile in expected assists
  • 71st percentile in non penalty expected goals
  • 89th percentile in non penalty xG + xA
  • 97th percentile in passes completed
  • 96th percentile in key passes
  • 99th percentile in passes in the final 3rd
  • 96th percentile in passes into the penalty area
  • 98th percentile in progressive passes
  • 98th percentile in through balls completed between defenders
  • 93rd percentile in "shot creating actions"
  • 93rd percentile in attacking 3rd "pressures"
  • 88th percentile in midfield 3rd "pressures"
  • Respectable defensive stats (63rd for tackles and interceptions, 76 for clearances
  • 99th percentile in touches per 90 minutes
  • 78th and 84th for miscontrolling the ball and being dispossessed (so pretty good in comparison to all players on his area of the pitch)
  • 98th percentile in receiving passes
  • 87th percentile in progressive passes received
And so on. He's a fecking brilliant attacking midfielder when you take away the actual goals and assists if you think they are flukey, as he moves into great positions to receive the ball, always makes himself available, gets in great positions to move up the pitch regularly, and works hard defensively and runs constantly, stays fit, is an attackers dream in that he is always finding them in advanced positions more than almost anybody in Europe...

The guy is literally in the 98th percentile or above in so many key attacking and creativity underlying stats, which of course leads to a brilliant goal and assists count. But importantly is also at the top in touches per game showing he gets involved and acts like a midfielder still (compared to strikers who would have much fewer touches).

Oh, and for those obsessing over pass accuracy:
  • Jack Grealish - 78.8% from 43.29 passes per 90 (34.1 completed)
  • Kevin de Bruyne - 75.5% from 64.29 passes per 90 (48.5 completed)
  • Bruno Fernandes - 73.5% from 65.31 passes per 90 (48 completed)
  • Thomas Muller - 73.3% from 49.76 passes per 90 (36.5 completed)
Negligible difference between Bruno and De Bruyne in pass accuracy, while both are at the very best rank in the world for all the ball progressive passing and creative stats possible, while also being very good in terms of individual xG as well. Like what more do you want? 2% more pass accuracy? So tighten up 1 pass per game? Get the feck out of here. You take into account that almost the entirety of our creativity revolves around him and the others behind tend to play it safe, and he does a good job at keeping up with the demand we need from him at that position. Add in that he's played 79 games since the football restart... and well, you have a world class player.

Class post!

Bruno is the shit he just needs to get a rest every few games to keep him fresh and keen
 
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Bruno is absolutely class. We are lucky to have him. It is time to build proper team around him starting this summer.
 
This thread :wenger:

Crazy that he's played 79 games in the 11 months between the football restart last June and the Europa League final. Add in 3-7 games games for the Euros and he'll have played close 85 games in that period. For a guy as hard working as him, that's fecked. Also it's crazy how he's managed to avoid injuries (or play through them). Whatever the case, it's clear to me that we need to rotate him a bit more to keep him sharper, but generally he's undoubtedly a world class player for me. He's one of the most creative players in world football, he gets involved all the time, he scores loads of goals and of course the best penalty taker around. But take away his pens and he'd still be ridiculously productive (before people say it's only because of penalties without realizing he'd still have 15 goals for the season).

I get it, he has some sloppy passes now and then and his pass accuracy is in the low-mid 70's... but he more than makes up for a few misplaced passes per game with his on the ball impact, his productivity, and his work rate.

I love how people in here have been saying without his productivity he wouldn't be anything special. Ok so without his goals and assists? What would Ronaldo be without goals and assists? Messi? If you pretend like he missed his chances and his team mates missed the chances he set up for them and just look at underlying stats, he still blows it out of the park. Per 90 minutes, compared to all attacking midfielders and wingers in the big 5 leagues and European competitions over the past year, he ranks:
https://fbref.com/en/players/507c7bdf/Bruno-Fernandes
  • 98th percentile in expected assists
  • 71st percentile in non penalty expected goals
  • 89th percentile in non penalty xG + xA
  • 97th percentile in passes completed
  • 96th percentile in key passes
  • 99th percentile in passes in the final 3rd
  • 96th percentile in passes into the penalty area
  • 98th percentile in progressive passes
  • 98th percentile in through balls completed between defenders
  • 93rd percentile in "shot creating actions"
  • 93rd percentile in attacking 3rd "pressures"
  • 88th percentile in midfield 3rd "pressures"
  • Respectable defensive stats (63rd for tackles and interceptions, 76 for clearances
  • 99th percentile in touches per 90 minutes
  • 78th and 84th for miscontrolling the ball and being dispossessed (so pretty good in comparison to all players on his area of the pitch)
  • 98th percentile in receiving passes
  • 87th percentile in progressive passes received
And so on. He's a fecking brilliant attacking midfielder when you take away the actual goals and assists if you think they are flukey, as he moves into great positions to receive the ball, always makes himself available, gets in great positions to move up the pitch regularly, and works hard defensively and runs constantly, stays fit, is an attackers dream in that he is always finding them in advanced positions more than almost anybody in Europe...

The guy is literally in the 98th percentile or above in so many key attacking and creativity underlying stats, which of course leads to a brilliant goal and assists count. But importantly is also at the top in touches per game showing he gets involved and acts like a midfielder still (compared to strikers who would have much fewer touches).

Oh, and for those obsessing over pass accuracy:
  • Jack Grealish - 78.8% from 43.29 passes per 90 (34.1 completed)
  • Kevin de Bruyne - 75.5% from 64.29 passes per 90 (48.5 completed)
  • Bruno Fernandes - 73.5% from 65.31 passes per 90 (48 completed)
  • Thomas Muller - 73.3% from 49.76 passes per 90 (36.5 completed)
Negligible difference between Bruno and De Bruyne in pass accuracy, while both are at the very best rank in the world for all the ball progressive passing and creative stats possible, while also being very good in terms of individual xG as well. Like what more do you want? 2% more pass accuracy? So tighten up 1 pass per game? Get the feck out of here. You take into account that almost the entirety of our creativity revolves around him and the others behind tend to play it safe, and he does a good job at keeping up with the demand we need from him at that position. Add in that he's played 79 games since the football restart... and well, you have a world class player.
i award you the Internet. Post of the year so far.
 
Nah, more like stats can just be used to disprove some really bad opinions, such as this criticism that Bruno is now overrated all of a sudden. For whatever strange reason if you want to ignore 50 actual goals and assists, fine, look at the underlying stats and he is still among the very very best attacking midfielders in terms of creativity, ball progression, involvement per game in both passes and touches per game, and adds a quantity of chances/shots/xG/goals for himself which many #10's can't reach. He's not a dribbler like David Silva and he has a 2% worse pass completion rate than De Bruyne (on marginally more passes!) though, so let's shit on him (even ignoring that Ole plays a direct style and Pep plays a possession style).

He's a world class player. He's up there with De Bruyne as the best attacking midfielders in the world due to a mix of overall involvement, creativity and goalscoring. The almost negligible statistical difference in pass completion % can easily be explained by Pep vs Ole play style and roles in the team, and and Bruno gets dispossessed fewer than De Bruyne anyway despite playing in the position with the least amount of time and space on the ball.

People watch football and see Bruno constantly bailing us out, scoring or creating goals every game. Then people see criticisms of him because he gave it away a few times and say he's nowhere close to De Bruyne (who they don't watch regularly or scrutinize as much as they do Bruno), without realizing the negligible or non existent difference in actual "sloppiness" between the two players.
All that is well and good but if Bruno fails to stand out in some of our biggest games then there is a basis to say he's overrated. I'm not saying he's overrated personally but there is a discussion to be had. He's our talisman and in some of our most important games over the last year he has completed disappeared.

Bruno has yet to make any real impact in the CL or international football. I'm not sure if he's world class yet tbh.
 
All that is well and good but if Bruno fails to stand out in some of our biggest games then there is a basis to say he's overrated. I'm not saying he's overrated personally but there is a discussion to be had. He's our talisman and in some of our most important games over the last year he has completed disappeared.

Bruno has yet to make any real impact in the CL or international football. I'm not sure if he's world class yet tbh.
He's not been rested enough same as Rashford etc - hopefully the squad will allow that next season.
 
All that is well and good but if Bruno fails to stand out in some of our biggest games then there is a basis to say he's overrated. I'm not saying he's overrated personally but there is a discussion to be had. He's our talisman and in some of our most important games over the last year he has completed disappeared.

Bruno has yet to make any real impact in the CL or international football. I'm not sure if he's world class yet tbh.
Ronaldo missed a penalty vs Chelsea in CL final. Was he and his 40+ goals overrated?

He was our talisman sure but had not won any international football back then, probably not world class then.
 
Ronaldo missed a penalty vs Chelsea in CL final. Was he and his 40+ goals overrated?

He was our talisman sure but had not won any international football back then, probably not world class then.
You could've picked many bad examples but congrats to you on using the worst possible example.

I mean Ronaldo was only the best player in the world, leading his team to the PL and CL double. Exactly the same as Bruno :wenger:
 
All that is well and good but if Bruno fails to stand out in some of our biggest games then there is a basis to say he's overrated. I'm not saying he's overrated personally but there is a discussion to be had. He's our talisman and in some of our most important games over the last year he has completed disappeared.

Bruno has yet to make any real impact in the CL or international football. I'm not sure if he's world class yet tbh.
The biggest players all have less impact than normal in the biggest games compared to the rest, as you'd imagine. International football, meh, wouldn't put that as much of a marker for who is world class, as we all know Klose was 10x the player for Germany than he was at club level, as was Podolski.

Very harsh to say Bruno hasn't performed in big games. He's had a good chunk of quality big games and some bad or invisible ones as well. Certainly don't think there's any sort of trend there. Really small sample size anyway. Not sure what the best way to look at this is if we want to ignore just goals, but picking through games vs big teams this season on whoscored and his ratings in those games:
  • Spurs (h) - 6.41
  • PSG (a) - 7.78
  • Chelsea (h) - 7.1
  • Leipzig (h) - 7.69
  • Arsenal (h) - 6.33
  • Psg (h) - 6.32
  • Leipzig (a) - 8.26
  • City (h) - 6.93
  • Leicester (a) - 8.07
  • City (h) (league cup) - 6.3
  • Liverpool (a) - 6.65
  • Liverpool (h) (fa cup) - 7.6
  • Arsenal (a) - 6.42
  • Chelsea (a) - 6.36
  • City (a) - 7.38
  • Milan (h) - 7.21
  • Milan (a) - 6.95
  • Spurs (a) - 6.69
  • Roma (h) - 9.7
  • Roma (a) - 7.41
  • Liverpool (h) - 7.87
  • Villarreal (N) - 6.71
Like, that's fine all things considered (such as inevitable fatigue and almost never being rotated to get refreshed). Some great games, some shit games, a lot of decent games. United as a whole wasn't great in big games this year, too many 0-0's as it was too negative from both teams, but I wouldn't read anything into it.

Fair enough if you don't want to throw the WC label around until they have big moments in big games, but that kinda means you can never be world class in a mediocre team and you can only become world class at a top team (unless you single handedly carry a team there, which is almost impossible in football and always greatly exaggerated when people give examples).
 
The biggest players all have less impact than normal in the biggest games compared to the rest, as you'd imagine. International football, meh, wouldn't put that as much of a marker for who is world class, as we all know Klose was 10x the player for Germany than he was at club level, as was Podolski.

Very harsh to say Bruno hasn't performed in big games. He's had a good chunk of quality big games and some bad or invisible ones as well. Certainly don't think there's any sort of trend there. Really small sample size anyway. Not sure what the best way to look at this is if we want to ignore just goals, but picking through games vs big teams this season on whoscored and his ratings in those games:
  • Spurs (h) - 6.41
  • PSG (a) - 7.78
  • Chelsea (h) - 7.1
  • Leipzig (h) - 7.69
  • Arsenal (h) - 6.33
  • Psg (h) - 6.32
  • Leipzig (a) - 8.26
  • City (h) - 6.93
  • Leicester (a) - 8.07
  • City (h) (league cup) - 6.3
  • Liverpool (a) - 6.65
  • Liverpool (h) (fa cup) - 7.6
  • Arsenal (a) - 6.42
  • Chelsea (a) - 6.36
  • City (a) - 7.38
  • Milan (h) - 7.21
  • Milan (a) - 6.95
  • Spurs (a) - 6.69
  • Roma (h) - 9.7
  • Roma (a) - 7.41
  • Liverpool (h) - 7.87
  • Villarreal (N) - 6.71
Like, that's fine all things considered (such as inevitable fatigue and almost never being rotated to get refreshed). Some great games, some shit games, a lot of decent games. United as a whole wasn't great in big games this year, too many 0-0's as it was too negative from both teams, but I wouldn't read anything into it.

Fair enough if you don't want to throw the WC label around until they have big moments in big games, but that kinda means you can never be world class in a mediocre team and you can only become world class at a top team (unless you single handedly carry a team there, which is almost impossible in football and always greatly exaggerated when people give examples).
Thing is, one can add that in all those poor games, a vast majority of the attack and midfield or so were poor.
Its never been like he's been the only underperforming player on a day.

Most chances created in Europe's top 5 leagues, carried this team for a large portion since he joined and there are still so many choosing him as a point of criticism.
 
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