There wasn't anyone out wide. Had that been the case Johnson couldn't have done much else than try to block the shot.
Brentan Rodgers
- Thread starter The Neviller
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There's that.
And the fact they'll be in the CL next season. Potentially very tricky. We don't know how well he'll play that game.
Liverpool have been on a roll this season. Brenton deserves praise, by all means. But whether he's a good enough manager to take them up one more notch, especially if they lose their star man, remains to be seen.
Yep I said so in a post above, I think their defence needs (and will get) a proper revamp. I don't agree on Sakho, but time will tell.
As for your first sentence, of course the style is down to the coaching which is why Rodgers' work shouldn't be downplayed, despite the dodgy end to the season, but its efficiency is also down to those front players being in absolute top form and doing brilliantly almost all season. The only thing I'm saying is I doubt that efficiency up front will persist next year, and I think that European football is going to be a big test for them.
To be honest I think that their defence has probably been more costly when it comes to goals than Gerrard has been.
Now its the chance for him to prove his worth. The title is all but gone and the summer is here. He has to give luis suarez the sort of supporting cast that could have them competing season in season out. While they have some good players they also have players that have no business starting games for a team challenging for a title.
He needs to sort out the teams shape in defence. Lord knows what the team is actually trying to do when they don't have the ball. People heap all the blame on the individual defenders but I think that's rubbish. Its a team problem atm.
He needs to sort out the teams shape in defence. Lord knows what the team is actually trying to do when they don't have the ball. People heap all the blame on the individual defenders but I think that's rubbish. Its a team problem atm.
They have a relatively imbalanced side because Rodgers has failed to adequately strengthen the areas that needed strengthening. He's spent close to £100 million on 15 players over the two seasons he's been in charge so far. Of those 15 signings, I'd argue only Sturridge, Coutinho and maybe Allen have actually offered anything to the first team, and even then Allen is basically just cover.
Aspas and Assaidi look nowhere near the standard they're after. Borini's got time but I can't see him being there for much longer. The loans of Sahin and Moses have also been completely pointless. I'd consider all of these wasted signings, and all but one are stikers/wingers. Sakho, Toure and Mignolet, whilst playing regularly, haven't improved the team at all, yet account for an outlay of about £30 million. Ilori, Alberto, Yesil and Ibe all have time on their hands, but again, 3 of those are wingers/strikers.
Rodgers has had plenty of money and time to plug the gaps, but he's just stockpiled attacking players rather than spreading the transfer funds across all areas of the pitch. His transfer record currently looks like this: 1 keeper that's been no better than the one they already had; 3 defenders, of which 2 have been shit and 1 has been shipped out on loan; 3 midfielders, of which 1 is cover, 1 regularly plays higher up the pitch and 1 has been a crap loan deal; 8 wingers/strikers, if which 1 has been good, with the rest either being useless or still developing.
There's also the fact that he's constantly harped on about the way they play being "the right way." He's basically built a squad to play the shit or bust style that they have done, so I don't know why you're talking about him strengthening the team properly to play different styles of football as if it's a foregone conclusion.
I don't think the star alignment comments have been particularly unwarranted. There has been a lot that's happened this season that's opened up the opportunity to get where they are. They've done brilliantly to get there, but you can't ignore the contributing factors.
- Fergie retiring, United hiring Moyes, and consequently having an abysmal season essentially opened up a slot in the top 2
- Chelsea again changed managers, as did City, meaning they weren't quite as stable as they maybe could have been
- Everyone expected Liverpool to be challenging for the top 4 at best, and one of their expected rivals, Spurs, lost their best player during the transfer window, spent shit loads on a load of players who have largely not done very much, and then sacked a manager mid-season only to replace him with a P.E. teacher
- Arsenal completely bottled a title challenge, relinquishing another spot in the top 3
- Liverpool had no European games, but all of their title rivals did, with all getting to the knockout stages. One even getting as far as the semi-final. It's ridiculous to suggest that this hasn't gone in their favour because they've basically had no need to rotate and have only played 1 game a week all season
- A plethora of players that everyone thought were actually a bit sub-par have actually had brilliant seasons. Whether they can do the same again with an extra set of fixtures is another matter
- Additionally, they've been massive underdogs. They weren't expected to be anywhere near the title, so they've effectively been able to play every game without worrying too much about their title chances. No one would have batted an eye had they dropped off February/March and finished 4th, and they'd have probably been congratulated on a very good season. As it is, they found themselves close to the title and have subsequently buckled under the pressure of coming close
Next year's going to be a whole different experience for Liverpool. They're going to start the season, not as favourites by any means, but with the expectation of a title challenge weighing over them, which is something they didn't have this season. They're also going to have to play at least 6 extra games, with the probable expectation of playing at least 2 more. Regardless of whether they're going to try and carry on playing as they have been, or adapt to something new, they're going to have to bring in a number of new players to cope with the extra mid-week fixtures. Any new players are going to need time to get used to their new surroundings. If they try and carry on playing as they have been, they might find that teams have sussed them out, and it's no longer an effective tactic. If they try and adapt to something new, it's going to take time for them to get used to that. They're going to have to rely on a number of players replicating the form they've shown this year, which is by no means a foregone conclusion. They're also likely to be facing stronger Chelsea and City sides, with the additional possibility of a resurgent United, a non-bottling Arsenal, a stronger and more confident Everton and a not-so-clueless Spurs.
They're not even completely out of this season's title yet anyway. There's till time for City to out bottle the bottlers.
Spot on with the rest of the post, but I think these two things are a bit far fetched..
Spot on with the rest of the post, but I think these two things are a bit far fetched..
That sentence was sort of a "delete as applicable" addition to the post.
What does that have to do with anything?
Spot on with the rest of the post, but I think these two things are a bit far fetched..
Exactly, though Alex makes good points he's obviously tilting towards hope more than prediction.
Well Alex, I can hope that City will lose to Villa. If not, I can hope that City will lose to West Ham. I can always hope as both scenarios are still very much alive. I read your detailed post in a similar vein and it made more sense.
He's set to sign a contract until 2018. Brilliant news.
Brilliant news.I would be surprised if they are mounting a serious title-challenge at this stage next season. Their squad needs massive improvements, especially given they will have CL football.
Coutinho & Sturridge: bargains.
Toure: signed for depth and experience on a free - was instrumental in us gaining points against the likes of Stoke and Villa earlier in the season. I remember being disappointed when he got injured in the Carling Cup and was ruled out of the LFC-UTD game at Anfield - shows how much he impressed early on. Certainly a worthwhile acquisition.
Allen: may not be the most glamorous name but I (and many other Liverpool fans) rate him very highly; suits our style to a tee. Henderson-Gerrard-Allen trio has worked brilliantly, especially in the bigger games.
Sakho: runs funny, hence the guffaws. In reality, has all the makings of a stalwart at the back. Think he'll be big for us next season.
Mignolet: saved us many points, definitely an upgrade on the Reina of recent years. His penalty save against Stoke was the crucial tonic for this season.
I'd class all of the above as 'good' signings that have improved the side and helped us get to where we are. They make up the bulk of Rodgers' first team acquisitions.
As for the rest:
Ilori: think he'll come into first team contention within the next year or two, looks a very good prospect.
Borini: will be interesting to see how he does next season, jury still very much out but he's shown up for Sunderland at big moments.
Alberto: perhaps lacks the physical attributes to make it in England; may be moved on in the summer.
Yesil: rated very highly by Leverkusen/German fans upon arrival. Two consecutive ACL tears have done him no favours.
Important to consider that the above (even Borini) were very much signed as prospects for the long term. Naturally, a very hit & miss market.
Then you have...
Assaidi - will most likely be moved on. Largely pointless signing.
Aspas - flat out failure.
Sahin - loan, didn't cut it.
Cissokho - loan, done a job at times but can be sure he won't be kept on.
Moses - loan, shite.
If you look past the initial conjecture from some in this thread then you can see that Rodgers' transfer record holds up rather decently. Five of the players he's added to the first XI have been constants in our title push. Thus, their contributions have been above average at the least. Beyond that, the flops have been easily expendable loan signings along with Assadi and Aspas - of whom neither were expected to set fire to the league. The jury is out on the Albertos/Illoris - but you sign youth with the realisation that they may not make it.
Considering the nature of the transfer market and its harsh success rate, Rodgers has done well. What excites me is where he was looking last summer. The Costas, Mkhitaryans and Willians will be a lot more accessible time around.
Self-assurance at its peak.
Toure: signed for depth and experience on a free - was instrumental in us gaining points against the likes of Stoke and Villa earlier in the season. I remember being disappointed when he got injured in the Carling Cup and was ruled out of the LFC-UTD game at Anfield - shows how much he impressed early on. Certainly a worthwhile acquisition.
Allen: may not be the most glamorous name but I (and many other Liverpool fans) rate him very highly; suits our style to a tee. Henderson-Gerrard-Allen trio has worked brilliantly, especially in the bigger games.
Sakho: runs funny, hence the guffaws. In reality, has all the makings of a stalwart at the back. Think he'll be big for us next season.
Mignolet: saved us many points, definitely an upgrade on the Reina of recent years. His penalty save against Stoke was the crucial tonic for this season.
I'd class all of the above as 'good' signings that have improved the side and helped us get to where we are. They make up the bulk of Rodgers' first team acquisitions.
As for the rest:
Ilori: think he'll come into first team contention within the next year or two, looks a very good prospect.
Borini: will be interesting to see how he does next season, jury still very much out but he's shown up for Sunderland at big moments.
Alberto: perhaps lacks the physical attributes to make it in England; may be moved on in the summer.
Yesil: rated very highly by Leverkusen/German fans upon arrival. Two consecutive ACL tears have done him no favours.
Important to consider that the above (even Borini) were very much signed as prospects for the long term. Naturally, a very hit & miss market.
Then you have...
Assaidi - will most likely be moved on. Largely pointless signing.
Aspas - flat out failure.
Sahin - loan, didn't cut it.
Cissokho - loan, done a job at times but can be sure he won't be kept on.
Moses - loan, shite.
If you look past the initial conjecture from some in this thread then you can see that Rodgers' transfer record holds up rather decently. Five of the players he's added to the first XI have been constants in our title push. Thus, their contributions have been above average at the least. Beyond that, the flops have been easily expendable loan signings along with Assadi and Aspas - of whom neither were expected to set fire to the league. The jury is out on the Albertos/Illoris - but you sign youth with the realisation that they may not make it.
Considering the nature of the transfer market and its harsh success rate, Rodgers has done well. What excites me is where he was looking last summer. The Costas, Mkhitaryans and Willians will be a lot more accessible time around.
Self-assurance at its peak.
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Good to see the Scousers back on here. Nowhere to see after the Chelsea and Crystal Palace results.
They won't be anywhere near the title next season. This was the best chance they are likely going to have for years and years unless they throw hundreds of millions at the squad.
It's not over yet. I still fancy City to trip up. Lets just hope it's a draw rather than a defeat.
I'm not sure they'll fall off massively next season, if they keep Suarez. Him and Sturridge will definitely keep them in the top 4 at least, based on this seasons performance.
Dunno about Chelsea result but a fair few of them were posting after the Palace result
Hmmm, I don't know. I think they'll be up there again next season. All the noise suggests they'll spend a decent amount this summer to capitalise on this good season. If they sort out their defence and keep their better players they'll definitely remain in the title picture by my reckoning.
I would definitely agree that next season will be harder for them to do it, not only because of the extra European games but it's likely Chelsea, City (well..maybe not after this UEFA sanction), Arsenal and (hopefully) United will be much stronger.
And yes, it's not even up for debate, this was their big chance to win the league and they've blown it. I don't why but it has surprised me how they've let it go. Never expected it for some bizarre reason.
Do you not think for £15m Allen was overpriced? As for Sakho, I don't think he has had a great season but like with all foreign players they need a season to get used to the league.
Maybe £3-5million overpriced but nothing to cry about. He does a decent job for them. Apart from his shocking miss against Everton earlier the season I've rarely seen the guy put a foot wrong.
He's set to sign a contract until 2018.
Personally, I think L/Pool will remain top 4 BUT, Rodgers needs a good summer in the transfer market to make this happen - I'm sure he'll do what's needed. As far as your own hopes Barney, what do you seriously think they'll do next season.
(Goes without saying that EVERYTHING, at United, depends on how Van Gaal does in transfers this summer)
In fairness to Barney, I thought he surfed those waves. YAWN.
In today's market? Maybe slightly, but I think he'll play for us for a few years and £15m won't look too bad.
Sakho's not been great as such but he's not the clown he's made out to be. Again, we paid a premium but I think he can develop into a very good player.
In the same way Hendo was overpriced at 17-20m. Except Allen is showing his intelligence and energy earlier than Hendo eventually produced.
Question. I know he's getting a new contract etc etc. But I am curious to hear Liverpool fans thoughts on if the club turned around and went..
"Thanks Brendan, you've done well.. Not quite won the league but got us into Europe.. So now we're going to get a 'great' manager. Thanks" and sacked him..
Would you be happy? Would you feel that this team/squad for the next manager/era would be good enough to continue on? I know new players can be bought and this is all hypothetical but I am still curious.
"Thanks Brendan, you've done well.. Not quite won the league but got us into Europe.. So now we're going to get a 'great' manager. Thanks" and sacked him..
Would you be happy? Would you feel that this team/squad for the next manager/era would be good enough to continue on? I know new players can be bought and this is all hypothetical but I am still curious.
I'd be furious.
I'd be amazed if there was one Liverpool fan who wants him out.
It's a formidable test. And the pressure is on since the expectation will be moving forwards not backwards.
Five teams expected to be competing for Top Four including Liverpool and the other four will be:
It's not just Liverpool but every one of those sides that now have a reduced margin for error. The challenge for top four is expected to be fierce, one must be targeting at least 80 points to be on the safe side. Even the might of City and Chelsea are not safe, for instance if City continue to under-perform away from home and have an extra slip up here and there at home they could find themselves in an awkward chasing position, or if Chelsea don't do so ridiculously well against the top teams and continue to struggle against the weaker sides, Mourinho's defensive tactics producing five draws across a ten game period, this could see Chelsea falling behind.
I think it's fair to say one must mount a title challenge in order to get top four. Like this season, Arsenal did mount a title challenge albeit not as strong as Chelsea or Liverpool or City however it was still a good challenge.
Liverpool have an uphill task, their squad isn't ready to compete in Europe and domestically therefore it must increase in size. They also have serious defensive issues that must be solved and teams will be focused on finding strategies to stop them from playing in the hope of securing a draw. The high energy, high tempo system might not be sustainable with mid-week games and to top it all off they very well might lose Suarez.
They will probably end up spending around £150m in the summer if Suarez goes and so must hope the new signings settle in and they get them right. Unlike United who might spend a lot of money on only a few high quality players, Liverpool must ensure they have a very good squad therefore might spend more like Spurs did with Bale money.
To conclude, every team will be in for a fight next season and every team has problems that need addressing this season. Liverpool's advantage over United is the consistency in manager, we must start again, however the problems Rodgers must address in this world cup summer are not desirable.
Five teams expected to be competing for Top Four including Liverpool and the other four will be:
- Man United with Louis van Gaal as manager, a much stronger squad and likely to be no European football giving the manager even more time on the training pitch to get his ideas across.
- Arsenal, who will spend big further strengthening their team.
- Chelsea with a top top striker amongst other positions.
- Man City who'll probably have Aguero, Kompany, Yaya and David Silva on the pitch at the same time for longer than 225 mins next season and also much better cover in defence and central midfield.
- An Everton that could be stronger if Martinez gets his transfers right.
- A good Spurs side with possibly a very promising manager such as De Boer or Pochettino.
It's not just Liverpool but every one of those sides that now have a reduced margin for error. The challenge for top four is expected to be fierce, one must be targeting at least 80 points to be on the safe side. Even the might of City and Chelsea are not safe, for instance if City continue to under-perform away from home and have an extra slip up here and there at home they could find themselves in an awkward chasing position, or if Chelsea don't do so ridiculously well against the top teams and continue to struggle against the weaker sides, Mourinho's defensive tactics producing five draws across a ten game period, this could see Chelsea falling behind.
I think it's fair to say one must mount a title challenge in order to get top four. Like this season, Arsenal did mount a title challenge albeit not as strong as Chelsea or Liverpool or City however it was still a good challenge.
Liverpool have an uphill task, their squad isn't ready to compete in Europe and domestically therefore it must increase in size. They also have serious defensive issues that must be solved and teams will be focused on finding strategies to stop them from playing in the hope of securing a draw. The high energy, high tempo system might not be sustainable with mid-week games and to top it all off they very well might lose Suarez.
They will probably end up spending around £150m in the summer if Suarez goes and so must hope the new signings settle in and they get them right. Unlike United who might spend a lot of money on only a few high quality players, Liverpool must ensure they have a very good squad therefore might spend more like Spurs did with Bale money.
To conclude, every team will be in for a fight next season and every team has problems that need addressing this season. Liverpool's advantage over United is the consistency in manager, we must start again, however the problems Rodgers must address in this world cup summer are not desirable.
Not saying I agree with him but John Toshack was on SSN saying if Liverpool don't win the league this year it will be 2 years without a trophy? and the pressure will be on Rodgers next year if he fails to win anything. A club like Liverpool shouldn't be going 3 years without a trophy.
He took them over when they were mid-table with very little hope of making Champions League. Now they're going to finish comfortably 2nd after putting up a good fight for the league, scoring over 100 goals and having the best points total in 5 years, second best in the last two decades as well. He's done tremendous job and has taken them from no hopers to a proper challenging side in just TWO years without tweaking the squad that much. The fact that they play very good football can't go unnoticed either. 2 years without a trophy is nothing given the state he found them in, 5 years without a trophy won't merit sacking as long as they're reasonably competitive.
But yes, the pressure will be on him because he couldn't win a League Cup. Big, big pressure if he cannot deliver it next year.
He took them over when they were mid-table with very little hope of making Champions League. Now they're going to finish comfortably 2nd after putting up a good fight for the league, scoring over 100 goals and having the best points total in 5 years, second best in the last two decades as well. He's done tremendous job and has taken them from no hopers to a proper challenging side in just TWO years without tweaking the squad that much. The fact that they play very good football can't go unnoticed either. 2 years without a trophy is nothing given the state he found them in, 5 years without a trophy won't merit sacking as long as they're reasonably competitive.
But yes, the pressure will be on him because he couldn't win a League Cup. Big, big pressure if he cannot deliver it next year.
That's proper mental.
Big John was deadly serious as well.
The Real Madrid experiences must have hurt his grasp of reality.
I think if anything Brendan has done a fantastic job in bringing fans around to his team and management style. I think the fly on the wall documentary didnt help him at all last season and even set him back a small bit but this year he's won nearly all fans over with a great brand of football and exceded all expectation. I would be surprised if he wasn't given a better contract and more freedom in the transfer market from the owners. That said I think next year will be tough to handle the champions league and a good level in the league. If you look at the run in when we lost Henderson to suspension we've really struggled for forward running from the middle. Allen upped his work rate and performed well but the squad needs improvement in depth to cope with the new challenges next year.
Good post @Empire
Any truth in the story that Hansen might be coming on board, to sort out the defence?
No idea. It might just be people adding 2 and 2 together and getting 5. He's definitely going to be taking up a role at the club though next season.
He took them over when they were mid-table with very little hope of making Champions League. Now they're going to finish comfortably 2nd after putting up a good fight for the league, scoring over 100 goals and having the best points total in 5 years, second best in the last two decades as well. He's done tremendous job and has taken them from no hopers to a proper challenging side in just TWO years without tweaking the squad that much. The fact that they play very good football can't go unnoticed either. 2 years without a trophy is nothing given the state he found them in, 5 years without a trophy won't merit sacking as long as they're reasonably competitive.
But yes, the pressure will be on him because he couldn't win a League Cup. Big, big pressure if he cannot deliver it next year.
Rodgers took over an under-achieving team.
Roy Hodgson under-achieved.
Kenny under-achieved.
Rodgers has over-achieved however Liverpool belong competing for and really making the top four. Five seasons ago Liverpool finished second with 86 points, this season they are on course to finish second with 84 points.
I know some players have left and others have come in but I still think Hodgson and Kenny under-achieved, evident by a serious title challenge and more points only 5 seasons ago, it's fair to say Liverpool should be winning trophies and getting top four.
Rodgers should be expected to deliver a trophy after 5 years especially if he is provided with funds to spend big. If he fails, the board should be open to talks with a top manager.
Long story short, Liverpool challenged for the title 5 seasons ago, then Benitez under-achieved for a season followed by similar stuff from Hodgson and Kenny. A manager has come along and restored them to where they belong, in the process over-achieving, however he will now have the opportunity with financing to deliver trophies.
I don't think he has won any trophies ever (other than the 3rd place cup in the championship) therefore 5 years without a trophy at a club like Liverpool, by a manager that has never won a trophy, would justify sacking if another manager who has won many trophies became available.
No, he shouldn't be EXPECTED to deliver a trophy in that time. There are five competitive teams in England - Arsenal, Chelsea, United, City and Liverpool. There are about 10 European teams capable of winning the European Cup, some of them significantly better than Liverpool even now. Not all of them are going to win a major trophy in the next 5 years, understandably so. You could say that there's still League Cup and FA Cup to win but realistically speaking Dalglish won one of them and was still considered a failure because he underperformed in the league.
They only challenged for the title once between 2000 and 2013 and it was when pretty much all their players were at their absolute best. To have them competitive now after several years of mismanagement is nothing short of miracle. In terms of financial power they are still some way behind United, City and Chelsea.
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