Their first challenge is to consolidate top 4. PL or CL is another step up (see Arsenal).
Brentan Rodgers
- Thread starter The Neviller
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You lot have been consolidating and playing safe for years. Time to step up and show some desire.
We've had plenty of desire and no bleedin' money - this is changing.
I'll believe it when I see it.
Even with the collapse, surely he has to pick up manager of the year? Or has Pulis done enough?
It'll be close. I wouldn't begrudge either getting it.
I think Rodgers has done the more impressive job in the grand scheme of things, but the current trajectory of the two will be at the front of peoples minds i reckon.
In terms of net spend over the last decade they are comparable with United.
Rodgers hasn't done anything that has not been done in other leagues recently. Klopp took his Dortmund team to the title and a champions league final and it looks like so will Simeone. I would not use the term miraculous to describe the achievements thus far of Brendan Rodgers.
Kenny won a cup but under performed in the league, had he not under performed in the league I doubt he would have been sacked. Rodgers should be expected to deliver one trophy in the next 5 years and remain competitive in the league (top four) assuming Liverpool are a football club that wins things, if this is not the club they expect to be then fair enough (no complaints by me).
If Rodgers cannot deliver even one trophy in the next 5 seasons then Liverpool should explore the possibility of attracting a manager that has won trophies before. If they can successfully attract a manager with a strong proven track record then it becomes difficult to not sack a manager, (by that point), that would not have won anything in 7 years with the club nor in his entire managerial career in favour of a manager that has won many things.
I would say that what Klopp and Simeone have done is absolutely tremendous as well, both have European finals to their name too so they are even more impressive (by some distance). It doesn't take anything away from Rodgers work at Liverpool, I never said he's the best manager in the world.
Do you think that winning the League Cup over the next 5 years could be the difference between keeping him and sacking him? Or even the FA Cup? Truth is all that matters today are the league and CL, clubs would rather be competitive in both even without final victory than win the League Cup IMO. And you cannot absolutely demand one of them as absolute necessity from a Liverpool manager, not when he inherited a squad this poor and doesn't have funds to compete with the top clubs (even though their net spend might be close to our I doubt their wage bill is that close).
Tremendous and even more impressive. I agree, and I do not deny Rodgers has done some excellent work thus far however what I am saying is that if he fails to win a trophy in the next 5 years and a manager with a lot of trophies won became available who was interested in the job, then his sacking has merit.
I was addressing this statement:
'5 years without a trophy won't merit sacking as long as they're reasonably competitive.'
My biggest criticism of David Moyes was that he never won anything. Even only a league cup with Everton would show he has what it takes to win and so I think it's important Rodgers deliver a trophy in the next 5 years, even if only the league cup. He must show he is a winner, even this season after putting himself in the position to win the title, he employed an ineffective strategy against Chelsea and then again Palace, hopefully these mistakes when the pressure is on don't become frequent.
One could argue football is about being both defensive and attacking but at the right moments, Rodgers' love for attacking football must be balanced by defensive football too if he is to return Liverpool into being a glorious club.
I just feel Liverpool should be looking to return back to those glory days and to do it they need a winner, somebody who craves victory. If I were a football manager and I had never won a trophy, even the league cup would tempt me. It is imperative he remains competitive of course however surely a winner wants to win things. Once he has the league cup, he won't care for it much and he'll push hard for the Fa Cup. It will just be more and more from there.
Everybody wants to win but those few that go on and do it, they get the decisions right. You want the guy who'll get the decisions right and 7 years is plenty of time.
Do you think that if it was to happen, (+ or - Suarez) that a new manager could get the same type of output from this group? Or Rogers has built a bit of a cornered market for himself with this side at the moment.
It just seems to me from my pov of an outside supporter (bias to United of course) that he's set this team up with the flow-on effect from Sturridge and Suarez chancer nature. It's not really a collective unit of efficiency. If it can be put that way, I mean I don't watch all 38 games, but from what I've seen a lot of the ebb and flow of the team relies on the quick output passes to Suarez and Sturridge and their relentless go forward. Probably tack Stirling's rise this season to it as well.
It's very Ferguson'esque circa 2005/06 with Ronaldo and co. But we had a lot better defense back then and a much more solid back four/midfield spine than this Liverpool team. It is interesting however. Just wanted to say that I am seeing some similarities. But I could be out of my mind.
You think getting top four and then winning a cup would lead to the sacking of a Liverpool manager?
Think he was being sarcastic. You said under-performing led to his sacking, and if he hadn't under-performed he'd have kept the job. That's like saying had Moyes not under-performed this year, he'd still be in a job. It's so obvious that it doesn't need to be mentioned.
He's just a crap Kevin Keegan. I can see Liverpool falling out of the top four next year, easily.
Fair enough, the post was in response to a poster stating Kenny was considered a failure because he underperformed in the league despite winning a cup. The poster was inferring the cup win was irrelevant but failure to remain competitive in the league led to the sacking and so should Brendan go 7 years without a trophy yet remain competitive in the league, his sacking will not have merit.
I was merely trying to make clear my opinion that a Liverpool manager should be expected to remain competitive in the league and deliver a trophy when in charge for a period of 7 years therefore if a manager with a stronger trophy record replaced Rodgers, the sacking would have merit.
Considering the entire post was in regards to what merits a sacking, I don't think it was an unnecessary point to make.
Blaming his defence was a bit naughty. Okay they were pants but he was the one instructing the full-backs to bomb forward when 3-0 up. What lost the points at Selhurst Park and at home to Chelsea was his own managerial naivety. Even when the players are to blame I think it's wrong for a manager to outright slate them to the media and if they do it should be "we didn't defend as well as we'd like" or something, not just lay them to slaughter. It's worse when you're to blame as the manager too. He should have been micromanaging those final few minutes from the bench not standing there looking hopeless as his team followed his instructions.
The bitterness in here.Hands up who would take Brendan Rodgers over Louis Van Gaal this summer?
Hands up who would take Brendan Rodgers over Louis Van Gaal this summer?
No one?
Rodgers' tactical naivety doesn't bode well for their chances of European progression. They'll get slaughtered against anyone half-decent.
After the Moyes episode, I don't think anyone would pick an unsuccessful manager to manage us.
Hands up who would take Brendan Rodgers over Louis Van Gaal this summer?
People are judging him pretty harshly. I agree he's shown some naivety regarding some things but he's really young in terms of a manager. He'll learn from his mistakes. He adapted to a new game style this year so if I was a Liverpool fan I'd have confidence in him fixing the defensive issues up.
Hands up who would take Brendan Rodgers over Louis Van Gaal this summer?
As refreshing as Rodgers has been this season with his all out attack, I think these last few weeks have shown some glaring chinks in his armour and his lack of top class winning experience has shown through. Van Gaal any day.
Rodgers' main aim next season will still be top 4, ideally with a good CL run. At this moment they need to have a consistency of CL income to be able to spend like a CL club. I have a feeling that Liverpool fans are expecting to spend very big in the Summer (£70m+ on 5-6 players) and be fighting again for the title. The reality is that even with next years Champions League revenue and the extra TV money coming through their owners will not be stupid enough to gamble that the CL income is now a permanent source of revenue and be signing player's on that basis. Their wage bill is already high in comparison to their turnover (65%~).
Rodgers has done a fantastic job, but I'd say the hard work will start in the Summer. I think most sane Liverpool fans would take 4th place and getting out of their CL group next season, and rightly so.
Rodgers has done a fantastic job, but I'd say the hard work will start in the Summer. I think most sane Liverpool fans would take 4th place and getting out of their CL group next season, and rightly so.
both are deserving, certainly. i just think Liverpool owe as much to Suarez this season than to Rodgers, whereas with Palace, it's pretty much all down to Pulis.
Liverpool have overacheived; Palace have ridiculously overachieved. i mean they were cut adrift at the bottom and could now make the top half. unbelievable stuff.
True. I think LMA tends to focus more on the underdog as well.
In that case good luck with him, sir. If the level of underestimation of Rodgers I'm seeing here is apparent in other clubs then I'm already looking forward to next season.
The David Brent mantra is working. Viva the mantra.
It's great. We'll go into next season not as favourites and then end up causing a shock again it seems.
Hands up who would take Brendan Rodgers over Louis Van Gaal this summer?
This is why nobody wants you lot to win the league. Rodgers has achieved nothing yet, so I'd hate to see him win the title with you lot, he'll instantly become a better manager than SAF and Jose put together in scouse land.
You don't exactly have a great record of following up a title challenge with another title challenge over the last 25 years. Granted, you've had very few title challenges.
I wouldn't be so smug yet.
Counter question, would you take right now the following scenario happening next year:
Finishing fourth on goal difference, whilst never being in the title race and be knocked out of the CL round of 16 after scraping through the group phases.
No.
Going back down to 7th would probably cause a shock.
Nope
Hands up who would take Brendan Rodgers over Louis Van Gaal this summer?
The ol' reverse psychology eh? Rodgers would be proud.
If Liverpool had won the title they'd be favourites for next season. I'm sure Liverpool fans would have hated that.
No we would not have been.
This is what I don't understand. The heightening of expectations is natural after such a good season, but surely the best thing for Liverpool right now is to cement their position as a Champions League team? The main thing you need now is a steady flow of CL income to ensure you can compete with the top 4 teams (United, City, Chelsea, Arsenal) in terms of wages across the board, whilst also planning for an new/re-developed stadium.
Liverpool will not outspend those teams in terms of transfer fees this Summer, nor will they be ahead of them in terms of their wage bill. You can bet that the weaknesses of the likes of City (managerial naivety away from home) and Chelsea (striker) will be resolved, likewise it is likely that Arsenal will not have such an injury crises and United will spend big and employ a competent manager.
After one season above 7th your fans now not only want top 4, but expect a title challenge, it is an impossible scenario for Rodgers in my opinion (expecting the manager to finish way above where his level of spend would put them).
Having witnessed first hand our playing style, the presence of Suarez and Sturridge and the fall from grace of Utd (thus opening the last top four spot to the current top four) no I wouldn't take that scenario.
I thought you were about to counter my question by asking if Louis Van Gaal was made available to LFC would we ditch Rodgers for him? No, that would be extremely silly. Thus why I'm surprised with the answer to my original question.
Why on earth would I take 4th and the last 16 if I think we can do better. Next season the minimum expectation has to be CL football, but if you offered me that at the moment I wouldn't take it.
We can compete with Arsenal in wages.
I'd expect us to spend a similar amount to all of those teams. £60-70m net is what I'm expecting and I doubt any of those teams will spend much more.
Yeah, other teams might improve, but I think we will too. You've taken the best case scenario for each of our challengers. Signings may not work out or City could get complacent again.
I didn't say I wanted a title challenge did I? I just said I wouldn't take 4th and the last 16. My goal for next season would be top 3 along with a trophy. If we could do that I'd be very happy.
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