Brentan Rodgers

[Sam]

Barring Gerrard's error at the end of last season we'd have won the league - that's the pinnacle isn't it? So talk about there being a 'ceiling' in terms of how far Rodgers can take us is nonsense.

As for 'significant financial backing', it's not as if we're Aston Villa for feck's sake. We have the financial capability and the will to pay for top players. Attracting them is the problem at the moment.

You didn't win the league though, you finished second. That was the best you could do, even with United and Chelsea both struggling. I doubt you'll ever get as good a chance as that again for a long time. Of course there is a ceiling, as I say, you don't have the money to compete with the likes of City/United/Chelsea/Madrid/Barca long term.

Look at the top players that moved over the summer, Falcao, Di Maria, Sanchez, Rodriguez....you don't have the financial capability to pull of any deals like that.

 

[MJJ]

Oh don't be pedantic. There was still a game to be player and a smart manager would recognise that 3 points would have heaped the pressure on City going into the last game. At 3-0, fine go for another, at 3-1 you shut up shop.

At 3-2, they should have shut up shop. There was no way city were going to let it slip on the last day, no amount of pressure would have change that. Their game was too easy and the squad was too strong. Rodgers didnt really have any other option, he backed his team to make up the GD and I respect that.

 

[Pexbo]

At 3-2, they should have shut up shop. There was no way city were going to let it slip on the last day, no amount of pressure would have change that. Their game was too easy and the squad was too strong. Rodgers didnt really have any other option, he backed his team to make up the GD and I respect that.

At 3-2 the damage is done and you're on the back foot against a team with nothing to lose. He should have taken the win. If your opinion is different, fair enough but I can see this going in circles so I'm out.

 

[gasmanc]

Oh don't be pedantic. There was still a game to be player and a smart manager would recognise that 3 points would have heaped the pressure on City going into the last game. At 3-0, fine go for another, at 3-1 you shut up shop.

Unless of course he really does not know any other way, we will see during the coming season, he's had time now, and enough transfer windows to build a solid defensive line. There are times ahead that Liverpool will need to play it tight and maybe go for a draw, Bernabeu for example or even Basel away, if he goes gung-ho just because it's working in the prem well.... His biggest test is this season, a step up in games, quality of opposition and not least pressure, there no element of surprise left either.

 

[NoPace]

Look at the top players that moved over the summer, Falcao, Di Maria, Sanchez, Rodriguez....you don't have the financial capability to pull of any deals like that.

They spent 45 combined on Lallana and Markovic. If Sanchez had wanted to go there, even if Liverpool had to pay Barca 2 or 3 million over the 35 (inluding likely bonuses) that Sanchez should cost, they could have offered him 8 million more in wages.

Rodgers went for potential and depth this summer, except at CB with Lovren. He didn't go cheap, since they spent a fair bit. They could have gone with a smaller squad and a couple of bigger signings. We'll see how it works out.

The bigger problem is I think in getting player outside the big cities without insane wages. We struggle at that, and we spent way more on wages and are surely a bigger name for most foreign players than Liverpool what with the last 20 years. Though, as we are reminded whenever Shaw announces he's never heard of Zidane and the first tournament he remembers is Euro 2008 or whatever, we're all old and a 20 year old prospect who's only been following football for 5 years will have a short memory, so we better get back to it.

 

[ShadesOfTomato]

You didn't win the league though, you finished second. That was the best you could do, even with United and Chelsea both struggling. I doubt you'll ever get as good a chance as that again for a long time. Of course there is a ceiling, as I say, you don't have the money to compete with the likes of City/United/Chelsea/Madrid/Barca long term.

Look at the top players that moved over the summer, Falcao, Di Maria, Sanchez, Rodriguez....you don't have the financial capability to pull of any deals like that.

We finished 2nd with a squad that boasted the likes of Moses and Aspas as our go to options. Remember, this is a side that finished 7th the season before. Hardly tailor made for a title challenge. We weren't even expected to finish top four by the footballing community, so last season can be considered as an indication of where we're heading rather than a failure.

We tried for Sanchez but he preferred Arsenal. According to his Dad we tried for Falcao too.

 

[gasmanc]

Don't cry, you will get to watch them both this season.

 

[MJJ]

They spent 45 combined on Lallana and Markovic. If Sanchez had wanted to go there, even if Liverpool had to pay Barca 2 or 3 million over the 35 (inluding likely bonuses) that Sanchez should cost, they could have offered him 8 million more in wages.

Rodgers went for potential and depth this summer, except at CB with Lovren. He didn't go cheap, since they spent a fair bit. They could have gone with a smaller squad and a couple of bigger signings. We'll see how it works out.

The bigger problem is I think in getting player outside the big cities without insane wages. We struggle at that, and we spent way more on wages and are surely a bigger name for most foreign players than Liverpool what with the last 20 years. Though, as we are reminded whenever Shaw announces he's never heard of Zidane and the first tournament he remembers is Euro 2008 or whatever, we're all old and a 20 year old prospect who's only been following football for 5 years will have a short memory, so we better get back to it.

Sorry, what? Most non-football watchers have heard of zidane.

 

[Empire]

They can be considered established at the top level but they won't go down as greats. They are in the tier below Ferguson, Mourinho, Ancelotti, Guardiola, Capello etc.

Barring Gerrard's error at the end of last season we'd have won the league - that's the pinnacle isn't it? So talk about there being a 'ceiling' in terms of how far Rodgers can take us is nonsense.

As for 'significant financial backing', it's not as if we're Aston Villa for feck's sake. We have the financial capability and the will to pay for top players. Attracting them is the problem at the moment.

Louis van Gaal took a Netherlands side expected to get knocked out of the group stages to third in the world cup, had he beaten Argentina on penalties he would have had a great shot at winning the world cup. And if he did then he would be in that tier you mentioned considering what he has done throughout his career and left behind.

But he didn't, that's reality.

You guys didn't win the league either and even then it wasn't just Gerrard's error, it was Brendan Rodgers' poor tactics in that game and then throwing away the 3-0 at Crystal Palace, you guys could have put more pressure on City but you chose not to.

Ferguson has said it before, winning a league is one thing but try defending it. That's even more difficult, for him the pinnacle wasn't winning the premier league but assembling a squad that could defend it again and again.

Almost winning the league is the best you managed in a season where other clubs were struggling and in a season you weren't in Europe and on top of that you had one of the most in form players in the world, if not the most.

 

[Empire]

We finished 2nd with a squad that boasted the likes of Moses and Aspas as our go to options. Remember, this is a side that finished 7th the season before. Hardly tailor made for a title challenge. We weren't even expected to finish top four by the footballing community, so last season can be considered as an indication of where we're heading rather than a failure.

We tried for Sanchez but he preferred Arsenal. According to his Dad we tried for Falcao too.

Liverpool fans often point to the first season to demonstrate the excellent work Rodgers has done, they say the first half he was laying down the foundations and in the second half Liverpool really began coming to life.

You make it sound like he was Moyes' United that season.

When it suits them, we only finished 7th.

For other arguments, title winning form in the second half of the season, we weren't just one season wonders.

 

[.Rossi]

Rodgers is the perfect Liverpool manager from a United point of view....

Punchable face, arrogant, talks shit, has no charm, clearly has no morals, has Liverpool playing good football.

He's the perfect manager to hate.

 

[ShadesOfTomato]

Louis van Gaal took a Netherlands side expected to get knocked out of the group stages to third in the world cup, had he beaten Argentina on penalties he would have had a great shot at winning the world cup. And if he did then he would be in that tier you mentioned considering what he has done throughout his career and left behind.

No, he wouldn't.

But he didn't, that's reality.

You guys didn't win the league either and even then it wasn't just Gerrard's error, it was Brendan Rodgers' poor tactics in that game and then throwing away the 3-0 at Crystal Palace, you guys could have put more pressure on City but you chose not to.

The title was lost against Chelsea. Because of Gerrard's slip. Without that we don't go chasing 10 goals at Palace.

Ferguson has said it before, winning a league is one thing but try defending it. That's even more difficult, for him the pinnacle wasn't winning the premier league but assembling a squad that could defend it again and again.

My point was that winning the league is just about the best thing Rodgers could do at Liverpool, and he was extremely close last season. Which means that even without mad bucks, these things can be achieved.

Almost winning the league is the best you managed in a season where other clubs were struggling and in a season you weren't in Europe and on top of that you had one of the most in form players in the world, if not the most.

*in a season where we were considered by every man and his dog as being not good enough to even contend for the top four.

Liverpool fans often point to the first season to demonstrate the excellent work Rodgers has done, they say the first half he was laying down the foundations and in the second half Liverpool really began coming to life.

You make it sound like he was Moyes' United that season.

When it suits them, we only finished 7th.

For other arguments, title winning form in the second half of the season, we weren't just one season wonders.

?

 

[PickledRed]

Exactly, you've almost just described your biggest problem. Basically, in the year when two of the three British heavyweights struggled, you still couldn't win the league. Without the financial muscle, the only chance you'll have of winning it is other teams all underperforming. And whats the chances of all three of United/City/Chelsea all underperforming at the same time, throughout the same season, to the point that allows you to come through and win it? Last season was the best chance you had, and you blew it.

As for all this Rodgers is a gem, Rodgers is the next God. We've heard it all before. First it was Houlier, then Benitez was the second coming, then Daglish was going to come back and destroy Ferguson's empire. Its just the usual romantic nonsense spouted by those who don't want to accept that football has moved on, and is all about money and power nowadays. And while you have four teams in the league with more of both, you will struggle to be the top dog.

Liverpool got 84 points which had nothing to do with who was in charge of those other clubs. If Rodgers can sustain that type of points tally then they will continue top 4 finishes which is how to build a competitive squad.

The bit in bold is symptomatic of what happens in this thread. It's called "straw man syndrome". I say one thing and it's meaning is totally skewed. It's a technique used to destroy opponents points without even dealing with the actual points made.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Let's be honest here, Liverpool fans will naturally hype Rodgers up big time. He almost took them to the place they had dreamt of reach for aeons and that too at an unexpected time. And looking at his time there, I don't see Liverpool just falling away. His coaching seems strong enough to avoid things like that. His abilities in terms of man-management, tranfers etc will obviously unravel over time. But as I've said before, the competition for top 4 is now very tough. If we can get over our weird coach and confidence issues, that makes 5 very good teams, with Everton and Spurs having quality too. So Arsenal and Liverpool dont need to drop off a great deal to slip out. But maybe this season they have a degree of comfort given they are settled and balanced.

My opinion on Brendon is that he is a very good coach and did excellently last season but to form a proper opinion on just how good a manager he is will take time.

 

[MoBeats]

Look, on a serious note, Rodgers has done a great job at Liverpool (though it pains me to admit it). And he deserves a lot of credit, but there is a limit to where he can take you. Rightly or wrongly, nowadays the winner will, bar the odd exception like Athletico last year, be the clubs with the most money. The clubs that can buy the best players and pay them the most money will always win long term. Look at Chelsea, they've had god knows how many managers over the last 10 years and have kept on being successful, same goes to Madrid. City too.

Sir Alex Ferguson says hi btw.

 

[Empire]

No, he wouldn't.



The title was lost against Chelsea. Because of Gerrard's slip. Without that we don't go chasing 10 goals at Palace.



My point was that winning the league is just about the best thing Rodgers could do at Liverpool, and he was extremely close last season. Which means that even without mad bucks, these things can be achieved.



*in a season where we were considered by every man and his dog as being not good enough to even contend for the top four.



?

Look at Louis van Gaal's history, had he won the world cup with that netherlands side then he would be in the top tier of managers if not there already. That would put him ahead of Capello and you mentioned him in that tier.

"Because of Gerrard's slip"

Yes, it had nothing to do with Rodgers unnecessary tactics leaving you open to a counter (Mourinho wanted this) or Sakho's decision to not pass the ball forward.

Cause and effect is more complicated than that, just because you see only one variable as the cause does not mean there are not others, you lost the title for a number of reasons and ultimately you were simply not good enough.

So you are of the opinion that only winning the league is the best Liverpool can manage? Louis van Gaal has spoken of his target not just to win the league but defend it and also become champions of Europe.

Winning the title just got that much more difficult, Pellegrini and Mourinho are in their second season, Wenger has an even better team, Moyes is gone. Rodgers would have to consistently surpass even last years title challenge to win the league and he can only do this if he is a truly great manager, if he isn't then I'm not sure how Liverpool compete moving forward.

And it all comes back to the question, is Brendan Rodgers an excellent manager? The best a Liverpool fan can say is we will wait and see, but then that's an uncertainty therefore I'm not sure why they are so confident they will have success over the next 5 or 6 seasons.

 

[Empire]

Sir Alex Ferguson says hi btw.

Brendan Rodgers is now comparable to SAF?

No.

 

[Thisistheone]

@Empire I agree with you re Van Gaal being in the top tier.

He has a legacy no matter what. Created that Ajax side which everyone loves and helped to build the foundations of two of the best sides in recent times at Barca and Bayern. To top it off he went and won a league with AZ. It's an incredible career no matter how a Liverpool fan tries to play him down.

So I'd have him and Jose in the top tier. Wenger one below.

 

[stevoc]

They can be considered established at the top level but they won't go down as greats. They are in the tier below Ferguson, Mourinho, Ancelotti, Guardiola, Capello etc.

Out of interest mate why do you consider Capello in the same tier as Mourinho, Ferguson, etc. but not Van Gaal? When they have had similar careers and Van Gaal may have actually won more than Capello.

I don't necessarily disagree that Van Gaal can't be considered as good as the others you mentioned but then neither should Capello if you ask me.

 

[KM]

Out of interest mate why do you consider Capello in the same tier as Mourinho, Ferguson, etc. but not Van Gaal? When they have had similar careers and Van Gaal may have actually won more than Capello.

I don't necessarily disagree that Van Gaal can't be considered as good as the others you mentioned but then neither should Capello if you ask me.

Its simple mate

Van Gaal is the United manager therefore he can't be a top manager. Liverpool fans only started to recognize Fergie genius after he retired before that he was a poor tactician who got lucky with class of 92.

Anyway let's stick the discussion to Brendan.

 

[Empire]

@Empire I agree with you re Van Gaal being in the top tier.

He has a legacy no matter what. Created that Ajax side which everyone loves and helped to build the foundations of two of the best sides in recent times at Barca and Bayern. To top it off he went and won a league with AZ. It's an incredible career no matter how a Liverpool fan tries to play him down.

So I'd have him and Jose in the top tier. Wenger one below.

Also, in that post I acknowledged he is only arguably top tier since he took Netherlands to 3rd in the world cup, a Netherlands side that was so weak it wasn't even expected to make it out of its group.

But then I went onto say had he won the world cup then unarguably he would have been in that top tier. Still, Tomato disagreed with this fair point.

 

[IwatUwat]

Rodgers has done wonders for Liverpool however you look at it.

 

[Thisistheone]

Rodgers has done wonders for Liverpool however you look at it.

He has. Been a brilliant appointment for them. Just look at the squad they had only 2/3 years ago compared to now. The likes of Joe Cole, Downing, Carroll, Jovanovic etc on crazy wages.

He is the best young manager in the league. But thats all right now. His brand of football is similar to Klopp's. He just needs to make the next step and win a trophy to move up a tier. And then after that there's the biggest challenges still to come: sustained success, rebuilding winning sides, evolving with the game etc etc.

 

[gasmanc]

He has. Been a brilliant appointment for them. Just look at the squad they had only 2/3 years ago compared to now. The likes of Joe Cole, Downing, Carroll, Jovanovic etc on crazy wages.

He is the best young manager in the league. But thats all right now. His brand of football is similar to Klopp's. He just needs to make the next step and win a trophy to move up a tier. And then after that there's the biggest challenges still to come: sustained success, rebuilding winning sides, evolving with the game etc etc.

Barcelona ? Madrid ?

 

[Thisistheone]

Barcelona ? Madrid ?

He'd be gone in a heartbeat if given the chance. El Brent.

 

[gasmanc]

 

[Mrs Smoker]

A lot of players that can make him a better person there.

 

[Deleted member 78215]

They can be considered established at the top level but they won't go down as greats. They are in the tier below Ferguson, Mourinho, Ancelotti, Guardiola, Capello etc.

How is Van Gaal a tier below Capello?

 

[Barney]

I'm not talking about him having no trophies, I'm talking about his ability. Surely he needs to hit that level soon if Liverpool will have a successful period over the next 5 or 6 seasons.

He has done an excellent job but getting you where you are is one thing, maintaining that level is more difficult. To do this one would think he needs to be an excellent manager.

I have not followed his career so I'm not sure of his ability, I'm just trying to understand why Liverpool fans are so confident. I think it's apparent the squad is weaker than the other top four contenders and also the finances not as strong so I just figured perhaps Rodgers had also done exceptionally well at his previous clubs like Mourinho prior to Chelsea or Ferguson prior to United, to show he is going to show everybody this season and in the next few that he belongs in that group.



This makes more sense.

He hit a very high level last season, a level higher than 18 other managers in the league. He also did this with a significantly worse squad than some of these managers.

I don't think maintaining the level is the most difficult part at all. I await for you to pull some Ferguson quote out.

He has done poorly at a couple of clubs early in his career. At Swansea and at Liverpool he's been excellent though. We're confident because he took a squad which most prior to the season thought was the 6th or 7th best in the league and finished 2nd.

I'm sure it does make more sense to you. I would wager that most non-United/Liverpool folk off of this forum would disagree with you though.

So you are of the opinion that only winning the league is the best Liverpool can manage? Louis van Gaal has spoken of his target not just to win the league but defend it and also become champions of Europe.

Winning the title just got that much more difficult, Pellegrini and Mourinho are in their second season, Wenger has an even better team, Moyes is gone. Rodgers would have to consistently surpass even last years title challenge to win the league and he can only do this if he is a truly great manager, if he isn't then I'm not sure how Liverpool compete moving forward.

And it all comes back to the question, is Brendan Rodgers an excellent manager? The best a Liverpool fan can say is we will wait and see, but then that's an uncertainty therefore I'm not sure why they are so confident they will have success over the next 5 or 6 seasons.

In your opinion. It's way too early to say how much more difficult it will be to win the league.

We are confident because of last season. That surely can't be too difficult for you to see?

 

[Thisistheone]

He hit a very high level last season, a level higher than 18 other managers in the league. He also did this with a significantly worse squad than some of these managers.

I don't think maintaining the level is the most difficult part at all. I await for you to pull some Ferguson quote out.

Kevin Keegan also finished higher than 18 other managers one season. It's the winning that counts.

And out of interest why don't you think maintaining the level is the hardest part? Fergie and Mourinho both say getting to the top is the easy part, staying there is another thing completely. Unless you're on about just staying in and around the top instead of staying number one?

 

[Kentonio]

Unless of course he really does not know any other way, we will see during the coming season, he's had time now, and enough transfer windows to build a solid defensive line. There are times ahead that Liverpool will need to play it tight and maybe go for a draw, Bernabeu for example or even Basel away, if he goes gung-ho just because it's working in the prem well.... His biggest test is this season, a step up in games, quality of opposition and not least pressure, there no element of surprise left either.

Absolutely this. Rodgers was incredibly naive at stages last season, and it cost them the title far more than any slip from Gerrard. Rodgers is still fairly new at this level though, so maybe he'll learn from his mistakes and improve. If he doesn't though, and keeps trying to follow a dogmatic attacking ideology instead of being pragmatic, then Liverpool are going absolutely nowhere.

 

[Empire]

He hit a very high level last season, a level higher than 18 other managers in the league. He also did this with a significantly worse squad than some of these managers.

I don't think maintaining the level is the most difficult part at all. I await for you to pull some Ferguson quote out.

He has done poorly at a couple of clubs early in his career. At Swansea and at Liverpool he's been excellent though. We're confident because he took a squad which most prior to the season thought was the 6th or 7th best in the league and finished 2nd.

I'm sure it does make more sense to you. I would wager that most non-United/Liverpool folk off of this forum would disagree with you though.

He also had probably the most in-form player in the world, certainly up there with the others. I think that helps any manager.

Hang on, you think most non-united / Liverpool fans would conclude that City, Chelsea, Arsenal and United are in a worse position than Liverpool despite having better managers, squads, ability to attract top talent and financial power? ok then.

In your opinion. It's way too early to say how much more difficult it will be to win the league.

We are confident because of last season. That surely can't be too difficult for you to see?

The post you responded to centred around the discussion of the next 5 or 6 seasons and whether Liverpool will be dominant. You are confident of a dominant spell because you had one good season?

That's Liverpool fans for you.

 

[ShadesOfTomato]

"Because of Gerrard's slip"

Yes, it had nothing to do with Rodgers unnecessary tactics leaving you open to a counter (Mourinho wanted this) or Sakho's decision to not pass the ball forward.

Not for me, no. Gerrard could/does receive the ball in that situation a hundred times and he doesn't slip. It was plain and simple individual misfortune.

So you are of the opinion that only winning the league is the best Liverpool can manage?

No, but winning the PL would put us amongst the very best in Europe. Which is where we aim to be.

Winning the title just got that much more difficult, Pellegrini and Mourinho are in their second season, Wenger has an even better team, Moyes is gone. Rodgers would have to consistently surpass even last years title challenge to win the league and he can only do this if he is a truly great manager, if he isn't then I'm not sure how Liverpool compete moving forward.

And it all comes back to the question, is Brendan Rodgers an excellent manager? The best a Liverpool fan can say is we will wait and see, but then that's an uncertainty therefore I'm not sure why they are so confident they will have success over the next 5 or 6 seasons.

Of course, nobody can predict the future but we have strengthened notably too in areas. Under Rodgers, I have seen enough to say we're here to stay.

Out of interest mate why do you consider Capello in the same tier as Mourinho, Ferguson, etc. but not Van Gaal? When they have had similar careers and Van Gaal may have actually won more than Capello.

I don't necessarily disagree that Van Gaal can't be considered as good as the others you mentioned but then neither should Capello if you ask me.

How is Van Gaal a tier below Capello?

Yep, in terms of consistency of achievement you can take him out of that list. The point still stands though.

 

[Empire]

Not for me, no. Gerrard could/does receive the ball in that situation a hundred times and he doesn't slip. It was plain and simple individual misfortune.




No, but winning the PL would put us amongst the very best in Europe. Which is where we aim to be.



Of course, nobody can predict the future but we have strengthened notably too in areas. Under Rodgers, I have seen enough to say we're here to stay.





Yep, in terms of consistency of achievement you can take him out of that list. The point still stands though.

Gerrard could have received the ball yet your tactics opened you to the counter, had that not gone in then still there would be other chances for Chelsea to score.

Brendan Rodgers' tactics were poor. They lost you the game, errors happen, tactics can limit the consequences of these errors.

That's a key difference, Louis van Gaal wants to be the very best in Europe. And that can be the difference between dominating for 5 or 6 seasons and not.

We cannot know the future, I accept that, we can make predictions though. If Liverpool repeat consistently what they did last season they will eventually win the league and if they maintain it then of course Rodgers is an excellent manager.

My point is that your team's dominance is reliant on him being an excellent manager, this is an unknown variable.

 

[MoBeats]

Brendan Rodgers is now comparable to SAF?

No.

Obviously not, you didn't want to read the rest of the post then?

Thanks for your time.

 

[STE586]

One things for sure, if Rodgers wants to be the manager Liverpool fans think he is he needs to throw sentimentality out the window and replace Gerrard cos he's past it now and unless they think he can win the league for them taking (dubious) penalties he'll merely hamper any chance they have. Big managers make big decisions.

 

[Barney]

One things for sure, if Rodgers wants to be the manager Liverpool fans think he is he needs to throw sentimentality out the window and replace Gerrard cos he's past it now and unless they think he can win the league for them taking (dubious) penalties he'll merely hamper any chance they have. Big managers make big decisions.

The Gerrard bashing has started early this year it appears.

 

[Mister_Stubbs]

The Gerrard bashing has started early this year it appears.

The Gerrard bashing never stops.

 

[Barney]

The Gerrard bashing never stops.

It did for a while last season, between about February and April.

 

[Empire]

Obviously not, you didn't want to read the rest of the post then?

Thanks for your time.

SAF is an obvious exception, he has been in the premier league since it started, nobody else has that level of experience.

The rule is clubs with the most financial power will be dominant.

The poster was merely pointing out Rodgers will not be able to do that, Rodgers is not an exception to the rule therefore I'm not sure why the Ferguson comment was necessary hence my sarcastic reply.