Breel Embolo | Signed for Schalke
- Thread starter JB08
- Start date
- Status
Of course. However I wasn't trying to compare the two leagues there, but give an example of a young player from a weaker league who's done well.Perhaps Ronaldo then, was a poor example.
Mkhitaryan would be a better example for my point; before Dortmund, he played in the Armenian and Ukrainian leagues. Though they're not the best leagues, a great player was still able to emerge from them.
Also Embolo has only played 128 minutes in the tournament so far. We are dealing with a really small sample size here.
Problem here is no one heard of him before the Euros, so everyone is trying to form an opinion by scrutinizing every single thing he does during those 128 minutes. He's not had a great tournament, that's for sure, but I think the scouts have done their homework, and submitted the report a long time ago.
Of course it would be more reassuring to see him play well, but we can't read too much into one tournament.
Of course it would be more reassuring to see him play well, but we can't read too much into one tournament.
Spin it another way,if he had been that impressive even before the tournament,they would have scouted him already.
Like that did with Sanches.
This argument falls because other than mostly Swiss reports,we don't know what consensus the scouts came to.
Maybe they think he is as unimpressive too as the rest of us,and we aren't signing him. It wouldn't be the first time that out name was heavily linked to a a player that we had little interest in.
The Ukranian league seems to produce very good talent though.
Diego Costa,Willian ,Fernandinho just over the last few years.
The reason why he's even being discussed is because there's apparent interest from us. It that turns out to be untrue (which might be the case), I don't really care what the whole world thinks of him, let alone the Swiss or anyone on this forum.
And I'm just saying that if we're discussing this as a possibility, maybe we shouldn't read too much into one bad tournament. You're right to say that we've been heavily linked to players we didn't end up signing. I think everyone on this forum knows that already.
My point wasn't that.
It's rather to those using the scouts (an appeal to authority of sorts) to go against those not impressed with Embolo.
All I am saying is that our scouts might not really rate him that much either(Enough to spend €25 mil Euro on) and no one knows enough to argue either wise. So it shouldn't be used as a default defense.
Assuming we are genuinely interested, then he must have been scouted. But even so, the scouts don't decide on the transfer fee. They may just say "this guy is worth a punt", but that doesn't mean he is worth 25mil, or even half that. The price is driven by market conditions, of which there are so many factors.
All I'm saying is, it's hard to determine a player's quality through a single tournament. The mention of scouts is just to illustrate that there would have been many other opportunities and means to assess the quality of a player. So do not be surprised to find a player who's shite when we watch him in the Euros, but being highly-rated by others.
I don't really want him but anyone judge him based on his Euro performances must be very naive about football.
Agree. If anything, an underwhelming tournament may be a blessing disguise for us in negotiation process in case our scouts are already sold on him.
In some cases, the transfer should be decided/ completed before big tournament, so performance during tournament is not a real deal. In other cases, players who came out of nowhere and impressed in tournament, may not be as good for club football.
Last edited:
That we are in competition with RB Leipzig and Schalke rather than PSG/Barcelona et al, says a lot about how other clubs rate him and his level. He's got physical attributes suitable for our league but would play in the U21 team due to his lack of technical ability-ok if he was just 10m euros but not at 25/30m.
Check out Suarez's former club list before Barcelona. Lewandolski's before Dortmund (he was not really highly rated at his latter years at Dortmund). Even Ibrahimovic only had Ajax vs Arsenal in his early days leaving Sweden. All 3 are recently/currently top class forward.
Barcelona talent signing is not always rosy: Many people still remembered Keirrison signing very well. Before that there was Saviola with top class talent tag who ended up at his best second/third tier from the top striker. There was well rated Maxi Lopez who didn't do too well. That's their striker talent signing, they recently sold Douglas, defender who rarely got any playing time. (PSG was not a big club before, or real big club now. PSG did a great job acquiring Veratti, Marqinho, but they arguably wasted money on Lucas, Pastore, Digne (who see no progression) and let go Koman. Therefore PSG doesn't hold great standard when talking about signing talent player.
Last edited:
Confused me for a while
Can we please sign a petition to not sign this man, and give it to Jose. Please!!!!!!!
Thanks
Fair point.
I was just trying to show that him garnering the scouts attention doesn't necessarily mean he is good enough. Some have used that as the be-it end-all.
Depends how the 25m is structured ie £5m after 50 games etc but I'm not saying he's worth anything I've not even seen him other than a couple sub cameos just that the market has gone made and after the Troy Deeney price 25m may be the new 10m. If we pay 10m upfront and he bombs like Nick P for us then not the end of the world dropping 10m we might even claw back a bit 5m-10m from selling on.
Awesome post! Especially since I was the one who said Jose likes his Africans
. I think this kid reminds him of Solomon Kalou who was 20 when he signed him, and he was also a right sided winger. Jose likes his Africanshttp://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/c/chelsea/5023196.stm
Chelsea boss Jose Mourinho said the club had been watching Kalou for over two years and that he wore a disguise on a recent visit to see the player.
"We were watching him for a long time. Two seasons ago assistant manager Steve Clarke was in Holland and he was saying 'not yet, not yet, not yet'," he told Chelsea TV.
"This season we went there again and saw different people. I went for the last time in glasses, cap and scarf in Rotterdam and I saw him. I have no doubts the boy has everything.
"Saloman is a very impressive boy.
"Chelsea need big players and need the best young talent in the world and in Saloman we are getting that."
Ominous? That's just ridiculous. How many players at the Euros played at a major tournament in their teens? You're acting like this tournament will act as a forecast for his career. Internationals mean less these days than they ever did. These tournaments are just festivals or celebrations of national pride. The real juice is in top level club football
I agree that it's difficult to judge whether he's a talented player from this single tournament, but I've not seen him play otherwise, and in this tournament he's not only looked bad, he's often looked like a fan who snuck onto the pitch. I'd rather judge him from matches than YouTube, so for now, I don't want him.
He's done poorly, but the only reason why I wouldn't judge him so soon is because of his age and inexperience. If he can be bought at a reasonable price, I'd be keen to see how he turns out.
The problem is, "reasonable" no longer has meaning in a world where Troy Deeney is quoted at 25mil. It's almost impossible to buy potential for less than 20mil this summer, unless you're talking about youth level players. Any player we inquire about automatically has a +10mil slapped on his valuation.
The problem is, "reasonable" no longer has meaning in a world where Troy Deeney is quoted at 25mil. It's almost impossible to buy potential for less than 20mil this summer, unless you're talking about youth level players. Any player we inquire about automatically has a +10mil slapped on his valuation.
How many people touting Breel Embolo have seen him play well over 90 minutes of an actual football match? Possibly none of you. It looks like his club are asking too much for him. He's too expensive for one so unproven.
Don't worry, I'm sure the club have watched him play well over 90 minutes.
You'd think every kid Utd buy turned into Obertan the way people are acting on here.
I'm nervous because of our none too inspiring transfer record over the past few years. Apart from Martial and Shaw (who were both very expensive, and playing in strong leagues), it's not led to any success; and our rivals seem to be doing better at their transfers. For the money quoted this one looks a bit ridiculous.
Get a feeling that "if" we are interested in Embolo, Mourino will use him in the Willian role. Strong, fast, hard working right winger to keep the width and play like a more traditional winger. Imo he could fulfil that role quite well
Euro's......if I was an Alien that just landed in Paris and watched the games, I wouldn't even spend 10m on Ronaldo and certainly not 60m+ on Pogba!!!
IF we are in for him, I'm sure the assessment will be based on other games and his potential to be good....
IF we are in for him, I'm sure the assessment will be based on other games and his potential to be good....
Which other games? If he's only ever played in the Swiss league how do you access him against top opposition; against what he'll face in the PL? Look how Memphis fared moving here from Holland and the Dutch league is stronger than the Swiss. I'm not saying we should not go for him. I'm saying even £20m is asking too much on the evidence.
How did we assess Martial? How do we assess any young player, playing outside of the top 2/3 leagues?
He has played 20 games already in Europe at the age of 19. Bayern just paid a crazy amount for someone even more unproven than that and you see a lot of people drooling over him. Every footballer is different. There's Bebe and Ronaldo coming from the Portuguese league for example...
I don't know if it's been posted, but RB Leipzig, the club also in for Embolo, have an interesting story.
They were basically founded in Leipzig in 2009 by Red Bull, by buying out the playing license of a fifth division side. Red Bull, being advised by Franz Beckenbauer, saw great footballing potential in the Leipzig, Saxony region. The city had a rich history in football, being the meeting place for the founding of the DFB and the home of the first German national football champion, VfB Leipzig. But their current clubs were in a legal and financial mess, and no team from the city had played in the Bundesliga since 1994, and no team had played in a professional league since 1998. They had a large population of top-level football hungry fans, great connectivity, no competition and proper infrastructure - the Zentralstadion was a former 2006 FIFA World Cup venue and the second largest football stadium in East Germany. Today, RB Leipzig's stadium, the Red Bull Arena, has a capacity of 43,000.
Initially, Red Bull had tried, multiple times, to take over an already established club in the area, but kept running into legal or fanbase issues, so they gave up that approach and decided to start a new club. So they bought over the playing license of tiny little SSV Markranstädt, a fifth division side, and established a new club instead, with the goal of climbing up to the Bundesliga within 8 years.
In '09-'10, RBL won the League V and were promoted.
In '12-'13, RBL had an 'Invincibles' season in League IV, and were promoted.
In '13-'14, RBL finished runners up in League III, and were promoted.
In '15-'16, RBL won League II, and were promoted to the Bundesliga.
After such heavy investment, and such a meteoric rise in playing level, RBL are hungry for new players, have the stadium for it, the fanbase, and all the Red Bull money.
I'll be interested in how they fare in the Bundesliga.
@Balu @Sphaero - are you following these lot?
They were basically founded in Leipzig in 2009 by Red Bull, by buying out the playing license of a fifth division side. Red Bull, being advised by Franz Beckenbauer, saw great footballing potential in the Leipzig, Saxony region. The city had a rich history in football, being the meeting place for the founding of the DFB and the home of the first German national football champion, VfB Leipzig. But their current clubs were in a legal and financial mess, and no team from the city had played in the Bundesliga since 1994, and no team had played in a professional league since 1998. They had a large population of top-level football hungry fans, great connectivity, no competition and proper infrastructure - the Zentralstadion was a former 2006 FIFA World Cup venue and the second largest football stadium in East Germany. Today, RB Leipzig's stadium, the Red Bull Arena, has a capacity of 43,000.
Initially, Red Bull had tried, multiple times, to take over an already established club in the area, but kept running into legal or fanbase issues, so they gave up that approach and decided to start a new club. So they bought over the playing license of tiny little SSV Markranstädt, a fifth division side, and established a new club instead, with the goal of climbing up to the Bundesliga within 8 years.
In '09-'10, RBL won the League V and were promoted.
In '12-'13, RBL had an 'Invincibles' season in League IV, and were promoted.
In '13-'14, RBL finished runners up in League III, and were promoted.
In '15-'16, RBL won League II, and were promoted to the Bundesliga.
After such heavy investment, and such a meteoric rise in playing level, RBL are hungry for new players, have the stadium for it, the fanbase, and all the Red Bull money.
I'll be interested in how they fare in the Bundesliga.
@Balu @Sphaero - are you following these lot?
People are complaining about us taking a risk, but they're the same people who will complain when these players get bought by Bayern, Dortmund etc., perform brilliantly and ask why the hell we weren't in for them before a big club signed them up.
Very happy to see this may be a matter of time before he signs.
The amount of rubbish being spouted in this thread is pretty hilarious. Think about this:
Memphis 30 goals in dutch football cited as one of the worlds very best youngsters has a horrible introduction to england and pretty much fails. Most likely hell be off.
Martial played a handful of games for a full 90 mins and barely even known amongst hipster football fans. Now an international superstar and heralded as one of the games best emerging talents.
Embolo could go either way from little I have seen the physical attributes are all there. He has pace skill and most importantly strength. He has been seen to defend impressively well for an attacking player and lacks that all important final decision and finesse both things he will pick up quickly as did Martial.
I cant wait to sign him, to me personally this would be a more exciting signing than old Henrik.
The amount of rubbish being spouted in this thread is pretty hilarious. Think about this:
Memphis 30 goals in dutch football cited as one of the worlds very best youngsters has a horrible introduction to england and pretty much fails. Most likely hell be off.
Martial played a handful of games for a full 90 mins and barely even known amongst hipster football fans. Now an international superstar and heralded as one of the games best emerging talents.
Embolo could go either way from little I have seen the physical attributes are all there. He has pace skill and most importantly strength. He has been seen to defend impressively well for an attacking player and lacks that all important final decision and finesse both things he will pick up quickly as did Martial.
I cant wait to sign him, to me personally this would be a more exciting signing than old Henrik.
Playing in Swiss league won't affect your basic qualities. I'm sure that qualities like finishing dribbling etc can also be effective in any league.
For every Memphis, there's also countless premier league players like benteke and Torres who have played in the same league and still flopped for other clubs
The top 5 leagues are Spain, Germany, England, Italy and France. France gets in the list because it's one of the top countries in the world for producing football talent. Maybe the top! Consider the table below:
France ---------- 64
Spain ----------- 44
Germany ------- 38
Brazil ----------- 31
England -------- 26
Italy ------------ 24
Argentine ------ 20
Senegal -------- 10
Holland ---------- 8
Portugal --------- 8
Croatia ---------- 7
Ivoria ----------- 6
Algeria ---------- 6
Belgium --------- 6
Uruguay -------- 5
Poland ---------- 4
Austria ---------- 4
It shows the nationality of players, nearly all under the age of 28, in top 500, or so, of players in European leagues. (I've cut it off to exclude countries with less than 4, but Switzerland hasn't a single one. France is top. Many of the players in Senegalese / Ivorian / Algerian national teams were also brought up and trained in France.
So the fact Martial came from France and not Switzerland is no fluke. It'd be a miracle were it the other way around.
I'd love to be proved wrong on this guy. So go ahead scouts.
How do you rate the Swiss first division compared to the English divisions? Are they Championship level, better or worse?
Last edited:
If Troy Deeney is worth 30m, I'd take Embolo for 19m.
- Status