Television Breaking Bad

I said this about BB and other shows back in 2010 in this very thread.. think it still holds except Dexter drowning in its crap -

crappycraperson said:
Wire is in a different league with TV shows because it never took any dramatic license to shock, entertain and or introduce a twist. Dexter and Breaking Bad are still very mainstream in that respect.

And it is actually, Sopranos which is the most emotionally involving out of all these 4 IMO.
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BB has had strong character development and moments but it was always a more plot oriented show than any of its peers. When you think of the Hank gun fight in parking or Walt saving Jesse in Half measures or other action filed moments, it never tried to be a 'realistic' drama like Sopranos, let alone Wire.
 
Mockney said:
There was nothing hugely wrong with the ending* apart from the gun nonsense, it just wasn't a special or a bold or an interesting enough ending to be a classic, the way a Sopranos or a Wire was (or even a Shield, which was weaker show, propelled slightly higher than it's run deserved by it's daring ending) Which is a shame. An ending does sort of solidify an opinion of a show. It's the bookend. It doesn't negate what came before, but it creates more of a lasting judgment than any other single episode. And while it's true that any ending was bound to piss somebody off, but I'd rather a truly great show take the risk of pissing people off with their storytelling rather than trying to please them with it. It ended up being the Friends of the super-dramas, rather than the Seinfeld.

*The Lydia/ricin plot annoyed me though. Aside from having the last words/act of the show focused on such a secondary character, it was just a rather pointless thing, semi-forced by the writers trying to resolve their own McGuffin rather than any kind of natural or organic plotting. Who cares about Lydia? No one, but the box needed to be crossed off.

I do think it was slightly overrated in it's final season. It's the only one of the big guns I watched as it aired, so I'm not sure how it compares, but the clamour to shout down any of it's plot holes or missteps was definitely palpable. Hank & Jesse's big realisation moments were both fumbled IMO, but fans were doing all sorts of mental gymnastics to convince themselves they were great (or at worst irrelevant) moments.
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Always thought the moment Hank finds out about Walt was a let down. As the build up towards the moment leads you to believe it will be a really tense moment but instead Hank finds out when he's taking a dump.
 
It also didn't really make any sense. He had no reason to suspect him as the King Pin, merely the Chemist. And virtually no one would assume they were one and the same unless they'd been watching too much Breaking Bad.

It was same problem with Jesse's "Cigarette" revelation. It confused what the characters knew, or could be plausibly expected to know, with what they needed to know, because the audience already did.
 
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Mockney said:
Hank & Jesse's big realisation moments were both fumbled IMO, but fans were doing all sorts of mental gymnastics to convince themselves they were great (or at worst irrelevant) moments.
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Bang on.

By God, we had some fun debating those scenes back when they aired. The fanbois were up in arms!
 
True Detective if you haven't yet.. same slow style, slow build up, mesmerizing actors.

I felt the same way about Jesse, but he had already become an emotional wreck by season 5. I missed season 1/2 screw-up Jesse.
 
I've honestly not seen anyone else call Jesse ungrateful before. The beauty of this show is how different people relates to all the different characters in the show. I miss it.
 
mu4c_20le said:
True Detective if you haven't yet.. same slow style, slow build up, mesmerizing actors.

I felt the same way about Jesse, but he had already become an emotional wreck by season 5. I missed season 1/2 screw-up Jesse.
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I've seen True Detective. Great program but Breaking Bad is better. All Jesse spends doing post season 1 is whining like a little...bitch and hampering Walter.

Bubz27 said:
I've honestly not seen anyone else call Jesse ungrateful before. The beauty of this show is how different people relates to all the different characters in the show. I miss it.
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I was just about to say, I'm slowly reading back through the pages of this thread, and I'm shocked at some of the opinions!
 
I remember really rooting against Walt in the last season, but when my folks (in their 60s) watched it, they were both annoyed he didn't Waltz (arf) off into the sunset.

Don't think I've head anyone hate on Jesse before though. What's he got to be ungrateful for? He made nothing from the enterprise, both of his girlfriends were killed and he ended up imprisoned and tortured all because of his rather manipulative association with Walt. Dickhead.
 
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You can't really be disappointed in Jesse's reaction after what Walt said to him last time they saw each other.
 
Mockney said:
Don't think I've head anyone hate on Jesse before though. What's he got to be ungrateful for? He made nothing from the enterprise, both of his girlfriends were killed and he ended up imprisoned and tortured all because of his rather manipulative association with Walt. Dickhead.
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Jesse acted like a pussy when Hank died even though Hank was actually good to him before that.
 
Finished watching this series last night. Quite enjoyed it, even if there were long chunks where it was far to slow at times. wasn't a fan of the Walts wife and kid for the whole thing really. I think I was cheering on Walt for nearly all the show. It wasn't until the last episode or two when he snapped that I was just waiting for him to be caught.

Really don't like how Walts kid basically just turns on him instantly. Goes from not believing the things about Walt to calling the cops on him after his mum pulls a knife. Just seemed to happen to quickly, would have thought he would have wanted to hear something from Walt at least.
 
Finished a relatively intense (ie a few hours a night) Breaking Badathon and finished the series about a week ago for the first time, took a couple weeks to get through them all. Great show.

Also, (comments on character development etc)

The amount of Walt-hate surprises me. I can understand why people dislike him but to me it is typical of modern day people where everything and everyone has to be a simplistic "black or white", there is no room for inbetween it seems. One of the reasons I love GoT is because there are basically no characters who are pure good/evil, and it creates far more depth.

My take on Walt was that he was doing everything for his family, and I can understand that. Yes, he ended up getting a bit out of control but he was at a point where he had no choice but to see things through to some sort of end.

For the first 2-3 seasons Walt is at a stage where he could feasibly walk away. Take Gus' money, say thankyou very much and have a pretty clean break from it all. That changed around the time that Gus fired Walt but said he (Gus) was going to have to deal with Hank. At that point, Walt made the decision that he needed to get rid of Gus - and he did that to protect Hank, he had no other motivation not to just get a 'clean break'.

From that point on he is basically firefighting and trying to deal with problems as they came up. I didnt really see an easy point where he could have just packed it all in and gone back to the rest of his normal life. I dont buy the bit in the final episode where he tells Skyler that "it was for me - I enjoyed it", I think that as ever, Walt was saying what he knew she needed to hear (just like his angry phone call after he takes Holly).

The only 'murder' of Walts which I think was unjustified was him killing Mike, but consider Mike had very nearly killed Walt on a couple of occasions (like before Jesse killed Gail). All the other deaths he caused I dont really think he had much of an alternative.

At the end of the day - as he says to Hank when Hank cottons on to things, Walt doesnt have much longer to live, and his plan had simply been to earn a load of money, die, and have his family live happily ever after.
 
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Mockney said:
What does acting like a pussy mean? Are we all cowboys here?
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Think the problem people had with Jesse towards the end was that his character just wasn't much fun anymore.
 
Personally I absolutely loathed Walt at the end and I'm pretty surprised that anyone would call Jesse ungrateful after everything he had to go through. Walt was a horrible human being.
 
Mockney said:
I remember really rooting against Walt in the last season, but when my folks (in their 60s) watched it, they were both annoyed he didn't Waltz (arf) off into the sunset.

Don't think I've head anyone hate on Jesse before though. What's he got to be ungrateful for? He made nothing from the enterprise, both of his girlfriends were killed and he ended up imprisoned and tortured all because of his rather manipulative association with Walt. Dickhead.
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Bloody whinger, like we dont all have problems?
 
Mockney said:
I remember really rooting against Walt in the last season, but when my folks (in their 60s) watched it, they were both annoyed he didn't Waltz (arf) off into the sunset.

Don't think I've head anyone hate on Jesse before though. What's he got to be ungrateful for? He made nothing from the enterprise, both of his girlfriends were killed and he ended up imprisoned and tortured all because of his rather manipulative association with Walt. Dickhead.
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GDaly95 said:
You can't really be disappointed in Jesse's reaction after what Walt said to him last time they saw each other.
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Everything that Walter did was for Jesse. How many times did Walt end up saving Jesse's life in the show? Crazy 8 was ready to waste him, Tuco, Mike and Gus on multiple occasions, those 2 dealers that killed Combo, even Victor, Hank and Gomi ready to lock him up, each of these incidents Jesse got out of it because of Walter. Even providing money to bail out Badger.

Yes, he was manipulated by Walter as well, but as much for his own benefit as Walt's i.e. the greater good. It also didn't add up how Jesse right before he's going to get into the car to start a new life then clocks on that it was Saul's guy that lifted the cigarette. I mean, it is much more plausible that it was taken in the lab when he would have had to undress to put on the cooking suit etc.

And then all that bitching and whining in season 5. He could have easily left some of the money outside an orphanage, and a hospital or whatever and been a bit inconspicuous. But instead, he's chucking it out of a car that's obviously going to draw attention.

@GDaly95 -conversely, how do you think Walt felt when he saw Jesse with Hank, and then due to Jesse's decision, Hank die?
 
Yeah. I'm sure Walt allowing Jesse's first girlfriend to die right in front of him was for Jesse's benefit.
 
Uzz said:
Don't we have to use spoilers?

She was a bad influence on Jesse, but I agree that was awful of Walt. But even before that point, Walt had saved Jesse's life a fair few times.
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Don't think so.

Was Walt almost killing that kid also for Jesse's good? The girl might have been an addict and no doubt the two of them would have pissed all that money away but that's better than the shit Jesse was manipulated into doing with Walt.
 
akash02 said:
Don't think so.

Was Walt almost killing that kid also for Jesse's good? The girl might have been an addict and no doubt the two of them would have pissed all that money away but that's better than the shit Jesse was manipulated into doing with Walt.
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Yes, the actions of Walt are questionable and even despicable, I'm not denying that. What I'm trying to highlight is the amount of times that Walt stuck his neck out on the line solely for Jesse.
 
Mockney said:
What does acting like a pussy mean? Are we all cowboys here?
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No, but hiding behind the car while your "friends" are being shot at isn't really something he could be proud of.

Uzz said:
She was a bad influence on Jesse,
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He was bad influence on her, she wouldn't return to drugs if it wasn't for him.
 
Amar__ said:
No, but hiding behind the car while your "friends" are being shot at isn't really something he could be proud of.



He was bad influence on her, she wouldn't return to drugs if it wasn't for him.
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They weren't friends and he had no weapon anyway, what could he have done? I don't see anything wrong with not pointlessly sacrificing your life for someone who had put you in hospital before and who is an acquaintance at best.
 
I think all the characters are very complicated.

Walt was doing what was best for his family but also seemed to have his own agenda with trying to become a kingpin. He was very manipulative but also seemed to have a very paternal approach to Jesse at points.Certainly more than he was with his own children. He also treated Jesse terribly at times.

Jesse was a guy who just got into a situation well out of his depth. He wasn't perfect but seemed more genunely caring than a lot of characters.

Hank was a very law abiding type of guy. Very principled in many ways but he was very nasty to his wife at times and Jesse to him was just a tool to catch Walt.

The whole thing isnt really about Good or Bad. Everyone has many facets to their personalities. In a way they all were "Breaking Bad"

Walt and Jesse for their business exploits
Hank for using Jesse and generally treating Marie and Jesse badly
Skyler was largely involved in laundering the money and generally being a bitch
Marie for the kleptomania
Saul would goto pretty much any lengths for his clients

They all had their fair share of Breaking Bad
 
Amar__ said:
He was bad influence on her, she wouldn't return to drugs if it wasn't for him.
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Jesse wasn't even using heroin until he met her, and he wasn't blackmailing Walter for half the money but doing none of the work. Her negative influence was greater on him than if the roles were reversed.

If anything, Jesse is influenced way too easily and should his own head/senses more.
 
Jesse was a scum during the whole TV series. He was always backstabbing Walter even through Walter saved him numerous times. Yes, Walter did some questionable things like "killing" his girlfriend (he didn't even kill her, she killed herself) and poisoning that Mexican child (can't remember his name), but other than that he always backed Jesse.

Jesse was as much of a scumbag as Walt was, maybe even more.
 
Uzz said:
Jesse wasn't even using heroin until he met her, and he wasn't blackmailing Walter for half the money but doing none of the work. Her negative influence was greater on him than if the roles were reversed.

If anything, Jesse is influenced way too easily and should his own head/senses more.
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She was drug free for some time until she met him. He was addict when she met her, nothing in his life changed which you can't say about her life. She died after she met him.


sizzling sausages said:
They weren't friends and he had no weapon anyway, what could he have done? I don't see anything wrong with not pointlessly sacrificing your life for someone who had put you in hospital before and who is an acquaintance at best.
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I can't really remember the scene that clearly, but I remember that my general opinion while watching it was that he could have at least try to help them or something.
 
Amar__ said:
She was drug free for some time until she met him. He was addict when she met her, nothing in his life changed which you can't say about her life. She died after she met him.
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What was he addicted to? I think you're remembering it wrong. He never used heroin up until the point he met her. He was using weed though. But that isn't in the same class.
 
Dumat12 said:
Jesse was a scum during the whole TV series. He was always backstabbing Walter even through Walter saved him numerous times. Yes, Walter did some questionable things like "killing" his girlfriend (he didn't even kill her, she killed herself) and poisoning that Mexican child (can't remember his name), but other than that he always backed Jesse.

Jesse was as much of a scumbag as Walt was, maybe even more.
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She'd of been fine sleeping on her side, Walt moved her onto her back.
 
Uzz said:
What was he addicted to? I think you're remembering it wrong. He never used heroin up until the point he met her. He was using weed though. But that isn't in the same class.
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Meth and weed addict. Tbf not serious like heroin addict, but he was one.
 
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