Going to watch the latest two episodes again. I'm consumed by this show at the moment.
Television Breaking Bad
- Thread starter Burndogg
- Start date
Same, I tried watching it atleast about 3 times in the last couple of years and stopped, but started again and it just clicked this time, became engrossed in it and I've watched up to s02e09 in the last couple of weeks. It's fecking brilliant.
The Wire is king though. BB probs next favourite.
I love The Wire (haven't seen final season, saving it for a rainy day... maybe after BB finishes) but I think season 2 was quite boring and it takes a while longer to get into compared to BB.
Jesus fecking christ that's one of the wire's biggest spoilers, delete that.
whoops deleted
Take my advice: don't bother.
I loved the wire from the beginning, and season 2 was great as well. Frank one of the best characters in the show, he was a brilliant actor (in the wire anyway). Anyway I'll leave it at that, not the best thread for it.
I hope this guy gets tracked down and brought to justice.
And to follow on from my Monster post at 3am because I couldn't sleep; somebody contacted me asking me where the Ricin fits in to all of this.
Well, I reckon that the side of Walter that loves Jesse (I believe there is one) knows that the only way for Jesse to see that Walter has a love for him is by taking the Ricin himself. I think that the shit is going to hit the fan between Walter and the Nazis (and Jesse) with Walter and Jesse being the only ones left alive. Who knows what sort of standoff it's going to be, but Jesse will have the upper hand. After a heated argument and questions being flung at one another, Walter will show Jesse the Ricin and take it in front of him.
Jesse won't believe it's Ricin, but as the standoff continues, Walt begins to develop the Flu like symptoms that Ricin brings about. He slowly drifts into a coma as Jesse finally realizes that whilst Walt is a complete cnut, he was willing to take the Ricin as a way of showing Jesse he was truly sorry for what he tried with Brock.
That does sound vaguely homoerotic Kinky.
I dont know why people keep suggesting that Walt will use the ricin on himself, it doesn't seem like a nice way to die.
Why would he go to all that trouble of going back to his house for the ricin when a few dozen headache tablets would have done a better job.
Why would he go to all that trouble of going back to his house for the ricin when a few dozen headache tablets would have done a better job.
Because 'head-ache' tablets haven't been a running theme in Jesse's character. Ricin has been
Ive not read your footlong theory so I dont understand what your getting at, my point still stands.
Fair enough Neil.
Walt's transformation has been the story of this show, but the father/son relationship between Walt/Jesse has been its heart. Vince Gilligan has said that the ending will leave viewers 'very satisfied', and if there's something I think most fans want, it's for Jesse, who's lost everyone he cared about, to know that Walt cares/d. I don't see how they'll manage that in 120 minutes and given the circumstances, but at the very least I think Jesse will get some kind of positive resolution.
For me, Jesse's fate will not affect the undoubted brilliance of the series, but I feel it will determine how fondly I look back on it personally.
To be Honest kinky, that would be a terrible ending and a terrible use of the ricin. In fact I can't even see walter doing that. Especially not infront of him. And he won't kill himself either IMO.
Jaysus. What an episode that was. Cranston is a demi-god; far and away the best acting I've ever seen in a television show. His portrayal of Walter White will be talked about for a long, long time.
I know we were all expecting Gomez and Hank to die, but I was still sat open-mouthed when it happened, particularly the scene leading up to Hank's execution. I haven't detested anybody/a group as much as I detest the Nazis. Again, brilliantly portrayed by the respective actors, but what vile characters they are. Also, the fact that they annoy me so much may be attributable to the fact that they have come from nowhere only to be the main protagonists in the show. Walt and Hank have survived attempted Cartel hits, overcoming the threat of the Cartel and Gus, yet these feckers are now the ones to bring the curtain down on the whole family.
Also, the foreshadowing with the tarantula a few episodes back when they clearly showed the spider heading in Jesse's direction turned out to be spot on. Jesse is in a bit of a stew now, and it's going to be very intriguing as to how he escapes this quandary.
I know we were all expecting Gomez and Hank to die, but I was still sat open-mouthed when it happened, particularly the scene leading up to Hank's execution. I haven't detested anybody/a group as much as I detest the Nazis. Again, brilliantly portrayed by the respective actors, but what vile characters they are. Also, the fact that they annoy me so much may be attributable to the fact that they have come from nowhere only to be the main protagonists in the show. Walt and Hank have survived attempted Cartel hits, overcoming the threat of the Cartel and Gus, yet these feckers are now the ones to bring the curtain down on the whole family.
Also, the foreshadowing with the tarantula a few episodes back when they clearly showed the spider heading in Jesse's direction turned out to be spot on. Jesse is in a bit of a stew now, and it's going to be very intriguing as to how he escapes this quandary.
Finale speculation:
I think it's very obvious now that the flash-forward scenes of Walt purchasing the M60 and obtaining the ricin from his home are related to his pursuit of the Nazis. It's been presented to us that Walt will want to avenge Hank's execution and of course his stolen money. However, I think there will be a further sting in the tail for Walt that will affect him far more, i.e. the harming of his immediate family. The Nazis now know that Jesse's confession tape is being kept at Hank and Marie's house, and I think that they will attempt to intercept the tape before Marie hands it over to the DEA.
I have a feeling that Skyler, Walt Jr. and Holly will go to live with Marie to help comfort her/due to the White household being on lockdown. If they happen to the there when the Nazis call around, I don't imagine there being too many survivors if an altercation breaks out. Would the writers be daring enough to kill of Walt's entire family and leave him with nothing bar one barrel of his money?
I have a feeling that Skyler, Walt Jr. and Holly will go to live with Marie to help comfort her/due to the White household being on lockdown. If they happen to the there when the Nazis call around, I don't imagine there being too many survivors if an altercation breaks out. Would the writers be daring enough to kill of Walt's entire family and leave him with nothing bar one barrel of his money?
OK - Game over so I can post, and apologies for the long posts. I just think the show is worthy of a thorough explanation of opinion and you can have a read of it in your own time. Perhaps others may wish to scan over it. I realize most of you already know this, but others may not.
There has been an ongoing theme between Jesse, Walt and the Ricin that Walt made.
Jesse was going out with a girl who had a son (Brock), and in many ways it was good for Jesse. It was a family environment, I believe he had kicked the drugs and it was looking like Jesse was happy. There is also an ongoing theme that Jesse had a very strong heart for children.
In the “Problem Dog” episode Walt makes some Ricin in the super lab. He gives it to Jesse, who puts it in a “lucky cigarette” that he keeps upside down in his cigarette pack. The Ricin cigarette is born.
In the “End Times,” Walt has a situation where Gus has just threatened his family. Walt is also aware that Gus is close to turning Jesse against Walt, and that Jesse's loyalty is the only thing keeping Gus from killing Walt. He's feck all money at this point to do a disappearing act via Saul, and so out the back garden during the scene where he's spinning the gun, the gun points to the potted plant of 'Lily of the Valley'. This is the point Walt gets his idea to poison Brock. Also bear in mind that Walt is aware Jesse is carrying this Ricin cigarette around with him, he knows there is a connection between Jesse and Brock's mother, and in various episodes Gus has shown himself to have no problem using and harming children (Half Measure episode where Gus kills Tomas)
At the 2013 Comic-Con Vince Gilligan explained exactly how he and the writers imagined Walt got the poison to Brock. They pictured Walt as the “Evil Juice Box Man” going into Brock’s school and giving him a juice box that had juice from the poison berries. If you look at the “Face Off” episode, when Walt busts into Saul’s office, Francesca is shredding school schedules. It’s a big spreadsheet of classes and times but there are notes on the side that seem to be one student’s personal schedule, most likely Brock’s.
Huell removes Jesse’s Ricin cigarette by switching out the packs. He removes Jesse’s pack (with the Ricin cigarette) and puts in a pack without it. This happens when Huell gives Jesse a pat down after Saul calls him to the office. Bear in mind that Saul made many urgent requests for Jesse to come into his office. The the same episode where Saul tells Jesse that "These are the end times, kid". With the cigarette removed, Walt can have Brock poisoned with his 'Juice Box' (if you will) and convince Jesse that either Gus or Tyrus stole the Ricin smoke from him and poisoned Brock.
When Jesse hears about Brock being in hospital with the Flu-like symptoms that won't go away but rather get worse, he immediately realizes that Walt has poisoned Brock; because back in the Tuco days, Walt told Jesse that these are the symptoms of being poisoned by Ricin.
When Jesse has Walt on ther ground with a gun to his head in his kitchen, Walt turns it around and convinces Jesse that Gus has done it as an attempt to frame Walt and get Jesse to finally give his consent to kill Walt. Gus' main gripe was that Jesse wouldn't allow him to kill Walt. He convinces Jesse that Gus knew about the Ricin cigarette because Gus had cameras on them all the time. Jesse, who on some level loves Walt and thinks of him as a father figure, decides to believe Walt rather than shoot him, and helps Walt to kill Gus. Afterward, Jesse finds out that Brock wasn't poisoned with ricin after all, but lily of the valley. He thinks it’s all a coincidence and Walt assures him they still did the right thing in killing Gus. In episode 5, Saul hands the Ricin cigarette that Huell lifted from Jesse back to Walt.
Personally I believe Walt never wanted to poison Brock which is why he didn't use Ricin. Walt was trying to survive and whilst it might have killed Brock, he was willing to take the chance that it wouldn't while manipulating situations that resulted in Gus' death.
In the Madrigal episode, Jesse still doesn't know what happened to his ricin cigarette. He doesn't have it, he doesn't know Walt has it, and he no longer believes Gus had it. In his mind it’s been mislaid. Walt tries to convince Jesse that it was lost it in the super lab before they torched it, but Jesse doesn't think so.
Jesse’s making himself crazy worrying that some innocent person will come across it wherever he lost it and get sick and die because of it. Walt says he’ll come over and help Jesse toss the house and find it. So Walt makes up a dummy ricin cigarette, using salt instead of ricin. He hides the real vial of ricin behind an electrical socket in his bedroom. He then plants the fake Ricin cigarette in Jesse’s Roomba as they are tearing the place apart. We don’t see him do this, but when he offers to help Jesse find it while making a fake one, we assume he’s going to plant it somewhere.
Walt pretends not to know what a Roomba is (“What the hell is that thing?”) and convinces Jesse to look inside it. Jesse does, and lo and behold there is his “ricin” cigarette. Jesse now believes he made a huge mistake, originally thinking Walt was behind it. He almost killed Walt, and now thinks that Walt was completely innocent. Jesse feels awful and can’t figure out what’s wrong with himself that he would make such a huge “mistake.”
He has gotten Jesse back to his side. He has Jesse doubting his own instincts about what’s going on, feeling like he is instead stupid. Then Walt comes in as the comforting father figure and talks to him about moving forward, so he gets Jesse on board with cooking meth again. Walt's game is all complete in the 'Hazard Play' episode where he convinces Jesse to leave Andrea, and Brock and has him wrapped around his evil little finger without a care in the world for Jesse.
For me anyway, the Ricin was what turned Walter from second in command into the Overlord of Crystal Meth, and it was at any expense. It could have killed Brock, Jesse was completely manipulated and their relationship started to go down hill from that point onward as Heisenberg grew in power. Jesse is questioning his sanity, is completely broken, is fearing for his life and is petrified of Walter. I'd imagine he hardly even knows who "Mr White" is any more. You have the whole questioning of did he or did he not kill Mike - Jesse is a train wreck of confusion.
Then in season 5 "Confessions" episode, Jesse is moved into a position where he has to 'Disappear'. And obviously that's fresh in a lot of people's minds where Jesse has the epiphany whilst waiting for Saul's contact to come collect him. It's open to debate as to how realistic the story line is that Jesse would have joined all the dots, but it resulted in what we have seen in most recent episodes.
Obviously it's completely open to interpretation, but I believe Walt realizes while he is hiding that the Ricin was the turning point. He went from potential monster into a fecking beast and left a trail of destruction in his wake, namely Jesse Pinkman who used to like a son to him. Walt taking the Ricin in front of Jesse could be Walt's only way of truly letting Jesse know he's sorry, he realizes he's been a total wanker to him and that he knows he's faked the whole intimacy thing in the past to a character who seems to have no parent figures in his life.
Anyway - that's why Ricin beats headache tablets
There has been an ongoing theme between Jesse, Walt and the Ricin that Walt made.
Jesse was going out with a girl who had a son (Brock), and in many ways it was good for Jesse. It was a family environment, I believe he had kicked the drugs and it was looking like Jesse was happy. There is also an ongoing theme that Jesse had a very strong heart for children.
In the “Problem Dog” episode Walt makes some Ricin in the super lab. He gives it to Jesse, who puts it in a “lucky cigarette” that he keeps upside down in his cigarette pack. The Ricin cigarette is born.
In the “End Times,” Walt has a situation where Gus has just threatened his family. Walt is also aware that Gus is close to turning Jesse against Walt, and that Jesse's loyalty is the only thing keeping Gus from killing Walt. He's feck all money at this point to do a disappearing act via Saul, and so out the back garden during the scene where he's spinning the gun, the gun points to the potted plant of 'Lily of the Valley'. This is the point Walt gets his idea to poison Brock. Also bear in mind that Walt is aware Jesse is carrying this Ricin cigarette around with him, he knows there is a connection between Jesse and Brock's mother, and in various episodes Gus has shown himself to have no problem using and harming children (Half Measure episode where Gus kills Tomas)
At the 2013 Comic-Con Vince Gilligan explained exactly how he and the writers imagined Walt got the poison to Brock. They pictured Walt as the “Evil Juice Box Man” going into Brock’s school and giving him a juice box that had juice from the poison berries. If you look at the “Face Off” episode, when Walt busts into Saul’s office, Francesca is shredding school schedules. It’s a big spreadsheet of classes and times but there are notes on the side that seem to be one student’s personal schedule, most likely Brock’s.
Huell removes Jesse’s Ricin cigarette by switching out the packs. He removes Jesse’s pack (with the Ricin cigarette) and puts in a pack without it. This happens when Huell gives Jesse a pat down after Saul calls him to the office. Bear in mind that Saul made many urgent requests for Jesse to come into his office. The the same episode where Saul tells Jesse that "These are the end times, kid". With the cigarette removed, Walt can have Brock poisoned with his 'Juice Box' (if you will) and convince Jesse that either Gus or Tyrus stole the Ricin smoke from him and poisoned Brock.
When Jesse hears about Brock being in hospital with the Flu-like symptoms that won't go away but rather get worse, he immediately realizes that Walt has poisoned Brock; because back in the Tuco days, Walt told Jesse that these are the symptoms of being poisoned by Ricin.
When Jesse has Walt on ther ground with a gun to his head in his kitchen, Walt turns it around and convinces Jesse that Gus has done it as an attempt to frame Walt and get Jesse to finally give his consent to kill Walt. Gus' main gripe was that Jesse wouldn't allow him to kill Walt. He convinces Jesse that Gus knew about the Ricin cigarette because Gus had cameras on them all the time. Jesse, who on some level loves Walt and thinks of him as a father figure, decides to believe Walt rather than shoot him, and helps Walt to kill Gus. Afterward, Jesse finds out that Brock wasn't poisoned with ricin after all, but lily of the valley. He thinks it’s all a coincidence and Walt assures him they still did the right thing in killing Gus. In episode 5, Saul hands the Ricin cigarette that Huell lifted from Jesse back to Walt.
Personally I believe Walt never wanted to poison Brock which is why he didn't use Ricin. Walt was trying to survive and whilst it might have killed Brock, he was willing to take the chance that it wouldn't while manipulating situations that resulted in Gus' death.
In the Madrigal episode, Jesse still doesn't know what happened to his ricin cigarette. He doesn't have it, he doesn't know Walt has it, and he no longer believes Gus had it. In his mind it’s been mislaid. Walt tries to convince Jesse that it was lost it in the super lab before they torched it, but Jesse doesn't think so.
Jesse’s making himself crazy worrying that some innocent person will come across it wherever he lost it and get sick and die because of it. Walt says he’ll come over and help Jesse toss the house and find it. So Walt makes up a dummy ricin cigarette, using salt instead of ricin. He hides the real vial of ricin behind an electrical socket in his bedroom. He then plants the fake Ricin cigarette in Jesse’s Roomba as they are tearing the place apart. We don’t see him do this, but when he offers to help Jesse find it while making a fake one, we assume he’s going to plant it somewhere.
Walt pretends not to know what a Roomba is (“What the hell is that thing?”) and convinces Jesse to look inside it. Jesse does, and lo and behold there is his “ricin” cigarette. Jesse now believes he made a huge mistake, originally thinking Walt was behind it. He almost killed Walt, and now thinks that Walt was completely innocent. Jesse feels awful and can’t figure out what’s wrong with himself that he would make such a huge “mistake.”
He has gotten Jesse back to his side. He has Jesse doubting his own instincts about what’s going on, feeling like he is instead stupid. Then Walt comes in as the comforting father figure and talks to him about moving forward, so he gets Jesse on board with cooking meth again. Walt's game is all complete in the 'Hazard Play' episode where he convinces Jesse to leave Andrea, and Brock and has him wrapped around his evil little finger without a care in the world for Jesse.
For me anyway, the Ricin was what turned Walter from second in command into the Overlord of Crystal Meth, and it was at any expense. It could have killed Brock, Jesse was completely manipulated and their relationship started to go down hill from that point onward as Heisenberg grew in power. Jesse is questioning his sanity, is completely broken, is fearing for his life and is petrified of Walter. I'd imagine he hardly even knows who "Mr White" is any more. You have the whole questioning of did he or did he not kill Mike - Jesse is a train wreck of confusion.
Then in season 5 "Confessions" episode, Jesse is moved into a position where he has to 'Disappear'. And obviously that's fresh in a lot of people's minds where Jesse has the epiphany whilst waiting for Saul's contact to come collect him. It's open to debate as to how realistic the story line is that Jesse would have joined all the dots, but it resulted in what we have seen in most recent episodes.
Obviously it's completely open to interpretation, but I believe Walt realizes while he is hiding that the Ricin was the turning point. He went from potential monster into a fecking beast and left a trail of destruction in his wake, namely Jesse Pinkman who used to like a son to him. Walt taking the Ricin in front of Jesse could be Walt's only way of truly letting Jesse know he's sorry, he realizes he's been a total wanker to him and that he knows he's faked the whole intimacy thing in the past to a character who seems to have no parent figures in his life.
Anyway - that's why Ricin beats headache tablets
I'm not a TV writer for a reason
It's just something that could possibly happen, that's all.
feck me, Kinky, any chance we can get a 'montaged' version of that post?
Like I say, people can have a read when they wish. It's not really supposed to be based on what I think will happen, it just explains the reason why Ricin is so central. Most already know about it, but some other poster may be unsure.
Anybody reckon we'll hear anything more from Elliot and Grechen in the last 2 episodes?
Walt heads to
in the next episode. Do those two live there?
New Hampshire (flash-forward scene showed a New Hampshire licence plate on Walt's car)
No idea. They just popped into my mind. It was that whole bitterness and the fact they were loaded when Walt was broke (despite him being central to their company) that caused him to lust after money. And so instead of seeking his fortunes in science the legitimate legal way, he delved into the dark sciences
Has he ever really made Elliot pay for it? And didn't he also have a fling with her for a while prior to her meeting Elliot? It seems like they're the legit family that took everything from Walt (or so he may think)
God my memory is going
Actually, come to think of it, why does Walt choose
Remember Saul said his connect allows the person choose their own destination when setting up their new life elsewhere. He could well be meeting with somebody in that location, or maybe not. Visiting his mother there would be too cliché, and I'm sure the DEA/police would have that angle covered.
New Hampshire?
No idea. They just popped into my mind. It was that whole bitterness and the fact they were loaded when Walt was broke (despite him being central to their company) that caused him to lust after money. And so instead of seeking his fortunes in science the legitimate legal way, he delved into the dark sciences
Has he ever really made Elliot pay for it? And didn't he also have a fling with her for a while prior to her meeting Elliot? It seems like they're the legit family that took everything from Walt (or so he may think)
God my memory is going
Don't think we've scene Elliot since his birthday party where Walt gave him his birthday present (another quite brilliant scene). Doubtful we'll see them now, it's too late in the show and I can't see a reason why they'd need to be brought back. Walt has $11m at his disposal so it's not like he needs them for money and I doubt he'll be looking for a job.
Remind me why this show has to end again?
In the 'Peekaboo' episode, Grechen leaves a voice message for Walt saying she's "down from Santa Fe" which is in New Mexico, so I guess there goes that whole link.
Walt telling Jesse about Jane ended any chance of those two ever seeing eye to eye again. It was the cruellest thing Walt could have done to Jesse.
Just had a look at the scenes of Jesse and the little boy whose parents were crack heads from Peekaboo. Well worth looking at just for the nostalgia of it. Jesse is just this character who is so desperate to have had a relationship with his parents. Very moving
Yeah, even saving Jesse from the Nazis wouldn't square things. Hope Walt at least tries though, it's the only thing he can do to even come close to redemption.
I wonder, did we see the death of Heisenberg in this episode?
I'm not so sure Heisenberg can be defeated as long as Walt is alive. It's like he got possessed by some demon, and the demon dies with Walt's body. I reckon he told Jesse about Jane to show Jesse just how much he despises Jesse going to the DEA. Walt would have had no problem with the execution of Jesse had it not been for Todd. Check out the non-verbal communication. It's like Walt is thinking 'feck you Jesse. One strike you're out' and Jesse is kinda shaking his head as if trying to say something to Walt without making it obvious to those around him. It may be something to do with what is on the recorded tape.
I'm very intrigued as to where they're going to go for these final two episodes. That episode was so frenetic it really had the feeling of a finale, they really could have ended the show on that episode. I get the feeling the next episode will be a slow, building episode, moving the pieces into place for the finale (almost certainly with one last Breaking Bad cliff hanger ending). I'm going to call now the ending of the next episode will be:
.
I'm particularly interested to see how the Jesse/Walt relationship develops at it's end, its inconceivable that with two episodes left they won't meet again, but how exactly that'll happen i'm stumped for ideas. He's in a position where it seems pretty impossible to escape without outside help but then Walt surely presumes he's dead, and no one else will know where he is. Unless of course the Heisenberg blue making a re-appearance gets back to Walt in which case he'd add two and two together and realise Jesse's alive, but still he has no idea where that lab is to my knowledge.
The Nazi's will want that tape (presumably because it incriminates Todd shooting that kid) and break into Marie's where Skyler and family are staying (of course if they've abandoned their house on some sort of protection program they surely wouldn't stay somewhere so obvious). Cut to ending. This to me seems the only way that Walt could be drawn back. Then again the flash forward was some months in the future and they presumably would want to get that tape back ASAP.
I'm particularly interested to see how the Jesse/Walt relationship develops at it's end, its inconceivable that with two episodes left they won't meet again, but how exactly that'll happen i'm stumped for ideas. He's in a position where it seems pretty impossible to escape without outside help but then Walt surely presumes he's dead, and no one else will know where he is. Unless of course the Heisenberg blue making a re-appearance gets back to Walt in which case he'd add two and two together and realise Jesse's alive, but still he has no idea where that lab is to my knowledge.
Hope you're right mate, they better not harm Holly though, that'd be too much.
Hope you're right mate, they better not harm Holly though, that'd be too much.
Would they even be allowed to harm Holly from a legal/TV rules standpoint? I know they've shot a kid dead on the show but violence towards a baby would be too far, wouldn't it?