Boycott The Qatar World Cup?

[Mike Smalling]

I mean, it's something at least, and to be fair to Hummel, they are just supplying the shirts. They don't have any influence on whether Denmark goes to the World Cup or not.

Still, this will only be a mild annoyance to Qatar and soon forgotten. A cynic would say, they are just using the situation for a bit of extra attention. The only thing that would really make an impact, would be if several of the major teams decided not to go.

 

[little.triangles]

I mean, the indian government themselves already pointed out that this number is largely in line with conditions in other countries we hear no complaining about.

6500 people dead while constructing stadiums is par for the course? Sounds terrible if true.

Can you provide a source please @Malcusss? (I tried looking).
Because I would walk out with an umbrella if the Indian government told me it was sunny, that's how much I trust them (I am Indian).

Also, apparently the number of people who died building/repairing stadiums in Brazil for the 2014 WC was 8 (eight).
6500 doesn't sound normal by any definition.

 

[Marwood]

Dividing blame is not really what this is about. The issue is the outrage that some people reserve for actions of only certain countries. Perhaps there was a debate in previous years when the tournament was going to held in Russia, but certainly it was less than now when it is going to be in Qatar.

When a World Cup is next awarded to the US, will we see this level of outrage even though the country's supreme court has made abortion illegal? Even though a girl knocked up by her uncle in a southern state has to travel a thousand miles to save her life? That's not a colonial legacy or a problem in the past but something that is happening right now.

edit: language

How does pointing out the failures of another country help the people of Qatar?

It doesn't does it?

But everyone ignoring this world cup might. Even of there is a contradiction in there somewhere.

Or everyone could watch the world cup and pour money into Qatar's government because of what the US have done. Won't help anyone, will cause further suffering but at least some odd sense of consistency will be upheld.

 

[SilentWitness]

Couldn't Hummel just remove their logo entirely? / Does seem odd if they're still trading in Qatar.

 

[little.triangles]

That is a massive assumption based on nothing. Are you saying that because I criticise Qatar it's not on principles and morals but some sort of racism? Absolute nonsense. There are well documented reasons to criticise Qatar, refute them or qualify them but any more of this and we will just create a new thread to discuss the whataboutery. I have criticised the US most of my adult life solely of the actions of the US, and I never mentioned Qatar once, so I don''t see why the US is relevant here?

I am not suggesting any racism here at all. Criticism of Qatar is totally justified and should happen as vehemently as it is happening right now.

My point is that if the US (just as an example) were awarded a World Cup sometime soon, will we see the level of outrage we are seeing now (not just from you and me but in mainstream western media) even though there are some really troublesome things happening in that country right now? Some things that are approaching what happens in Qatar such as the taking away of basic rights of women? Will there be, especially, calls for a boycott from people like Cantona? I think we can guess what the answer is.

 

[giorno]

Waaaay ahead of you

 

[MDFC Manager]

Can you provide a source please @Malcusss? (I tried looking).
Because I would walk out with an umbrella if the Indian government told me it was sunny, that's how much I trust them (I am Indian).

Also, apparently the number of people who died building/repairing stadiums in Brazil for the 2014 WC was 8 (eight).
6500 doesn't sound normal by any definition.

That's the total number of foreign worker deaths without categorisation, they weren't all involved in stadium construction and they weren't all occupational deaths, i.e. includes all deaths regardless of reasons.

Not trying to downplay things but that number doesn't tell the full story.

 

[groovyalbert]

Couldn't Hummel just remove their logo entirely? / Does seem odd if they're still trading in Qatar.

Not to be too cynical, but I wouldn't be surprised if they sell more shirts beyond Denmark fans (who would purchase regardless) as a result of this "boycott" than they would have initially done.

 

[moses]

Couldn't Hummel just remove their logo entirely? / Does seem odd if they're still trading in Qatar.

Profit is king, the marketing people have decided that enough people will like the criticism of Qatar and it won't impact the brand so that's why they did it. It's awful and cynical but better than nothing, marginally. Qatar is the glorious union of profit and religion, and that's why it's a human rights shitshow.

Amnesty on Migrant Workers in Qatar.
The abuse and exploitation of low paid migrant workers, sometimes amounting to forced labour and human trafficking, have been extensively documented since the World Cup was awarded to Qatar. In October 2013, for example, The Guardianreported that 44 Nepali workers had died in Qatar in just a two-month period, while Amnesty International reports in 2013and 2016documented large scale labour abuse in the construction sector, including forced labour, such as at Doha’s Khalifa Stadium. In 2014 the UN Special Rapporteur on Migrant Rights also described how “exploitation is frequent and migrants often work without pay and live in substandard conditions”

 

[moses]

Not to be too cynical, but I wouldn't be surprised if they sell more shirts beyond Denmark fans (who would purchase regardless) as a result of this "boycott" than they would have initially done.

That's not cynicism. An idea that would impact sales badly would never have seen the light of day.

 

[moses]

I am not suggesting any racism here at all. Criticism of Qatar is totally justified and should happen as vehemently as it is happening right now.

My point is that if the US (just as an example) were awarded a World Cup sometime soon, will we see the level of outrage we are seeing now (not just from you and me but in mainstream western media) even though there are some really troublesome things happening in that country right now? Some things that are approaching what happens in Qatar such as the taking away of basic rights of women? Will there be, especially, calls for a boycott from people like Cantona? I think we can guess what the answer is.

No the media wouldn't give the USA the same scrutiny on it's wholly unjust prison system for example, but that's the fault of Western Media and willfully ignorant masses. I fail to see how it's relevant to any discussion of Qatar and is just serving to obfuscate the discussion at hand.

 

[little.triangles]

No the media wouldn't give the USA the same scrutiny on it's wholly unjust prison system for example, but that's the fault of Western Media and willfully ignorant masses. I fail to see how it's relevant to any discussion of Qatar and is just serving to obfuscate the discussion at hand.

Are we only discussing the issues in Qatar? There will hardly be any debate on that, almost everyone will agree that the country deserves all criticism coming its way.

Are we not also discussing calls for a boycott of the WC altogether that have been made from posters on this thread and from the likes of Cantona? Because if it is a matter of boycott, then it becomes a lot more complicated.

 

[moses]

Are we only discussing the issues in Qatar? There will hardly be any debate on that, almost everyone will agree that the country deserves all criticism coming its way.

Are we not also discussing calls for a boycott of the WC altogether that have been made from posters on this thread and from the likes of Cantona? Because if it is a matter of boycott, then it becomes a lot more complicated.

So you agree that the situation in Qatar is unacceptable but disagree with a boycott? Why?

If there was a successful boycott don't you think that would be a hugely good thing and it would become a realistic bargaining point for future hosts?

Like without getting into LGBT or women's rights, its a dictatorship. None of that is acceptable in my eyes.

 

[11101]

That's a huge statement from a relatively big name, good on them. If only Adidas or Nike or any other of the other corporate sponsors would follow suit. I'd love England to do something similar but when Mr England himself is on the Qatar payroll, I won't hold my breath.

We also get to see how good football shirts would look without logos and sponsors plastered all over them.

 

[Bole Top]

I don't see the point in boycott. not a single player will refuse to participate and not a single nation will withdraw from tournament. why the heck should I or other common people boycott it then and what would it change? everyone else will be doing their business as usual completely unaffected by everything involving Qatar, but TV watchers should be doing something else during the game and pretend they're sending a message. makes no sense. in general, it's my favorite part of the year and now I'll have world cup thrown into the mix as well. of course I'm going to enjoy it.

 

[SilentWitness]

Not to be too cynical, but I wouldn't be surprised if they sell more shirts beyond Denmark fans (who would purchase regardless) as a result of this "boycott" than they would have initially done.

Profit is king, the marketing people have decided that enough people will like the criticism of Qatar and it won't impact the brand so that's why they did it. It's awful and cynical but better than nothing, marginally. Qatar is the glorious union of profit and religion, and that's why it's a human rights shitshow.

Amnesty on Migrant Workers in Qatar.
The abuse and exploitation of low paid migrant workers, sometimes amounting to forced labour and human trafficking, have been extensively documented since the World Cup was awarded to Qatar. In October 2013, for example, The Guardianreported that 44 Nepali workers had died in Qatar in just a two-month period, while Amnesty International reports in 2013and 2016documented large scale labour abuse in the construction sector, including forced labour, such as at Doha’s Khalifa Stadium. In 2014 the UN Special Rapporteur on Migrant Rights also described how “exploitation is frequent and migrants often work without pay and live in substandard conditions”

I'd take it a bit more serious if they removed the logo entirely and stopped trading in Qatar, otherwise it's nothing more (for me) than Hummel trying to get good PR and more sales.

 

[moses]

A little overview of some of the domestic, social, political and economic issues.

https://freedomhouse.org/country/qatar/freedom-world/2022

" Qatar’s hereditary emir holds all executive and legislative authority and ultimately controls the judiciary. Political parties are not permitted, and the only elections are for an advisory municipal council. While Qatari citizens are among the wealthiest in the world, most of the population consists of noncitizens with no political rights, few civil liberties, and limited access to economic opportunity."

 

[little.triangles]

So you agree that the situation in Qatar is unacceptable but disagree with a boycott? Why?
If there was a successful boycott don't you think that would be a hugely good thing and it would become a realistic bargaining point for future hosts?

I am leaning towards boycotting it myself actually, but I see the hypocrisy of people like Cantona who did not make these calls for previous editions and would not make it in the case of Brazil for example whose government is, among committing other despicable acts, intentially destroying the Amazon (a pretty grave crime wouldn't you agree?).

Yes, if it were a successful boycott then it would be hugely good thing. But I would stop there. I am not convinced it would become a realistic bargaining point for future hosts because nobody is going to realistically boycott a WC held in a western country no matter what sh*t was hitting the fan in that country at that moment. Purely because they are a western country and their crimes will be brushed under the carpet by most people, inluding people who are calling for a Qatar boycott right now. That's the hypocritical reality of the world. Do you disagree?

Like without getting into LGBT or women's rights, its a dictatorship. None of that is acceptable in my eyes.

Not in mine either. So would you boycott one if it were held in US/Brazil/Poland etc.?

 

[RobinLFC]

Don't get why so many people are criticizing the Hummel move. It's not a shirt sponsor who decides whether a country is going to the World Cup or not - and they'd be shooting themselves in the foot (without any positive consequences for such action either) if they'd break up their contract with Denmark over their participation. These kind of (not so) subtle actions can also be a strong form of protest if enough countries and/or sponsors join in.

It's always better to do something rather than do nothing, doesn't point to hypocrisy or anything like that to me.

 

[SilentWitness]

Don't get why so many people are criticizing the Hummel move. It's not a shirt sponsor who decides whether a country is going to the World Cup or not - and they'd be shooting themselves in the foot (without any positive consequences for such action either) if they'd break up their contract with Denmark over their participation. These kind of (not so) subtle actions can also be a strong form of protest if enough countries and/or sponsors join in.

It's always better to do something rather than do nothing, doesn't point to hypocrisy or anything like that to me.

It is a bit hypocritical if you're still trading in that country and you could remove your logo from the kit entirely but still create the kit for them, could you not?

I agree it's good to do something better than nothing but I also think you have to factor into that what people can do. The average person might not be able to do much and we can't expect them to do so, but a massive global corp like Hummel could do much more and despite doing more than other global corps, they could be doing more.

 

[moses]

I am leaning towards boycotting it myself actually, but I see the hypocrisy of people like Cantona who did not make these calls for previous editions and would not make it in the case of Brazil for example whose government is, among committing other despicable acts, intentially destroying the Amazon (a pretty grave crime wouldn't you agree?).

Yes, if it were a successful boycott then it would be hugely good thing. But I would stop there. I am not convinced it would become a realistic bargaining point for future hosts because nobody is going to realistically boycott a WC held in a western country no matter what sh*t was hitting the fan in that country at that moment. Purely because they are a western country and their crimes will be brushed under the carpet by most people, inluding people who are calling for a Qatar boycott right now. That's the hypocritical reality of the world. Do you disagree?


Not in mine either. So would you boycott one if it were held in US/Brazil/Poland etc.?

We definitely live in an imperfect hypocritical world but I don't think that should cloud every discussion we have. Yes the powerful western media is a problem, but they cause as many problems internally in the countries they are not likely to accuse on the international stage, so again it's not a black and white issue of simple favouritism, they have their own agenda. . American media is far more harmful to the US than anywhere else in real material terms.

I boycott everything.

 

[Bole Top]

It's not a shirt sponsor who decides whether a country is going to the World Cup or not - and they'd be shooting themselves in the foot (without any positive consequences for such action either) if they'd break up their contract with Denmark over their participation.

but isn't that the whole point? it looks like nobody is willing to sacfrice anything here - be it players, managers, pundits, TV houses, sponsors, TV watchers etc. it's all so tragic though, just not tragic enough for anyone to miss out on game/sponsorship/money

 

[RobinLFC]

but isn't that the whole point? it looks like nobody is willing to sacfrice anything here - be it players, managers, pundits, TV houses, sponsors, TV watchers etc. it's all so tragic though, just not tragic enough for anyone to miss out on game/sponsorship/money

Yeah it's just opportunistic in most cases, I agree it would be much better if the countries united and make a strong statement, with the best obviously being not participating. But that's not happening so no one wants to stick their neck out. And can't say I can blame them either in that case.

 

[Shakesy]

I'm a special kind of nasty.

My wife loves giving money, etc to poor people. I say what's the point? There are poor people around every corner. I say she should think about us. We're the most important. I'm an idealist, surprisingly, and I'd love it if the world were a happy and perfect place. I'm also a pessimistic realist, so I know the world is fecked up. Nothing I do will make a difference. I care about strangers from other countries dying, and agree its not right. But, I also care about the WC and, ultimately, my guiltless entertainment is more important than trying to mend a hopelessly broken world.

Now, am I right? No. Do I care? Not really, no.

Oh, and reading all your humanitarian posts showing a will to support a boycott makes me believe in humanity again. Wish more were like you guys.

 

[Giggsyking]

So protesting a human rights issue by wearing shirts made in Bangladesh with abusing the human rights of the workers and children ? The hypocrisy of the west never stop giving. Lets see if Danmark will wear a symbol in the next WC in USA for ½ million Iraqi people who died because of that country?

 

[Giggsyking]

Bravo.

Are you attending the WC in USA, you live there sure? do you feel USA as a country, responsible for the death of millions on the back of fake wars worthy of a prestigious tournament like the world cup?

 

[Giggsyking]

Why didn't all nations boycott from the beginning when it was apparent Qatar bribed FIFA? My guess is money.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/06/sports/soccer/qatar-and-russia-bribery-world-cup-fifa.html
Russia did the same in 2018, but there were no threads in the CAF nor people calling for boycott the World cup in a country like Russia at that moment. Everybody were happy traveling to Russia. But now everybody suddenly cares about the integrity of the vote and corruption. Lets be honest here, people only care now because it is in Qatar for only one reason.

 

[Bole Top]

Oh, and reading all your humanitarian posts showing a will to support a boycott makes me believe in humanity again. Wish more were like you guys.

don't worry, you will see those same posters again in the official world cup thread when the tournaments starts, boycotting it by watching "only" their NT matches and round 16, quarters, semifinal and final matches

 

[Giggsyking]

We definitely live in an imperfect hypocritical world but I don't think that should cloud every discussion we have. Yes the powerful western media is a problem, but they cause as many problems internally in the countries they are not likely to accuse on the international stage, so again it's not a black and white issue of simple favouritism, they have their own agenda. . American media is far more harmful to the US than anywhere else in real material terms.

I boycott everything.

Yes, be selective, only in the case of specific countries, specifically not the west . Britain as a country is responsible for the misery of tens of nations around the world, the British government were awarded with the prestigious Olympic games on the back of the Iraqi war. FFS, some hypocrisy here is mind boggling .

 

[calodo2003]

Are you attending the WC in USA, you live there sure? do you feel USA as a country, responsible for the death of millions on the back of fake wars worthy of a prestigious tournament like the world cup?

By that metric, of course not. In practical, pragmatic terms, the US will always host such events that need suitable, virtually turn key infrastructure.

But I was only commenting on a kit manufacturer's protest. If you would like to continue this discussion, we can head to the Whataboutism thread.

 

[Raoul]

I am not suggesting any racism here at all. Criticism of Qatar is totally justified and should happen as vehemently as it is happening right now.

My point is that if the US (just as an example) were awarded a World Cup sometime soon, will we see the level of outrage we are seeing now (not just from you and me but in mainstream western media) even though there are some really troublesome things happening in that country right now? Some things that are approaching what happens in Qatar such as the taking away of basic rights of women? Will there be, especially, calls for a boycott from people like Cantona? I think we can guess what the answer is.

You are correct. We wouldn’t see any issues with the US getting it again. For one, it has already hosted one successfully and has the infrastructure in place. And to drive home Cantona’s point, the likes of the US and South Africa are places where football is developing. Qatar, by contrast, is a tiny Island with zero significance in terms of football, who no less had to bribe their way into getting the WC.

There is therefore no legitimate double standard in this, because hosting the WC in Europe, North or South America wouldn’t be entail any of the problems previously discussed, which is the point Cantona (whose opinion this thread is about) is making.

 

[RedSky]

Here's an extract from the report.

Spoiler: 6,500 Deaths Report

SIMON: Qatar has long been criticized by labor and migrant groups for what amounts to human rights abuses. The events organizing committee says that 37 laborers involved in stadium construction have died with all but three of those deaths being non-work related. Where does your 6,500 number come from?

PATTISON: If you analyze actually what those deaths include, some of them include workers who collapsed on the stadium construction site and died after they were taken off it. Others died in road traffic accidents on their way to work in a company bus. And many others died suddenly in an unexplained way in their labor camps. So it's highly contentious to say those deaths are non-work related. The larger figure of 6,500 represents all those workers from five South Asian nations who have died in the past 10 years in Qatar. I would argue the vast majority of them have been involved in low-wage, dangerous, extremely difficult laboring work. But the figure also includes others who have worked in white collar jobs.

SIMON: And can you break down the cause of deaths?

PATTISON: Some of the deaths caused by workplace accidents, some are caused by road traffic accidents, some are suicides, but the vast majority are categorized as so-called natural deaths, which essentially means deaths that are sudden and unexplained. Most commonly, these are linked to cardiac or respiratory failure. Now, the problem is there's no actual medical understanding of the real causes of these deaths. And that's largely because Qatar very rarely does autopsies. And so when you look at the death certificates of these workers, it's almost like they've just copied and pasted the same cause of death time and time again. Now, we know that heat is a factor in some of these deaths. Of course, in the summer months, Qatar is an extremely hot place, but that's not the full picture. There is something else going on, and we don't know precisely what it is because the Qatari authorities have refused to investigate what's behind these deaths, even though they were awarded the World Cup 10 years ago.

The thing that leapt out to me was the word labor camps. A quick google later and I was astonished, for such a wealthy country they sure do treat people like vermin. Will be giving this World Cup a miss.

 

[ROFLUTION]

Right, sorry. Apologies if it came off as agressive but the point stands.




I mean it shouldnt take you too long to verify. I am an architect myself and it is common knowledge that a huge part of construction in the middle east is handled by western companies.

As for the world cup infrastructure specifically, some arabic, some east asian, but primarily western. Thornton Tomassetti (USA), Populous (USA/UK), Schlaich Bergermann Partners (Germany), Fenwick Iribarren Architects (Spain), Foster and Partners (UK), Carillion (UK), WeBuild SpA (Italy), Interserve (UK), Buro Happold (UK), among others. I mean Albert Speer Architects (the firm founded by the son of that Albert Speer) is heavily involved. You couldn't make it up.

Thats enough for me. There really are enough things to find objectionable with this world cup, including homophobia, workers rights, fundamentalist sexism and corruption to have t stoop as low as to complain about the weather, or the fact that precious European seasons will be interrupted. I just find it ridiculous that this same energy isn't maintained when its the west.

Still, we must criticize all of these things whenever we can.

Fair enough - decent list you got there. The thing is there is so much disclosed about the buildings that anything is hard to really verify. Non transparency just smells of really bad things.

While I agree that all countries of wrongdoing all should be criticized, To me politics and football should not really mix too much as politics are politics and football should be about football. We’ve seen it go very wrong before in Columbia with Pablo Escobar in the 80s using football for popularity. (A national team player was shot due to an own goal in the World Cup basically)

The thing that sticks with me is mainly that 6500 have died to make this World Cup happen and various human rights have been broken during this all being built. That has to do with the World Cup itself - a war in Iraq/afghanistan for USA doesn’t have to do with a football-event to me, when they host. I can still think they’re giant douches of war, but im not sure why it should flow into boycott decisions about World Cup in the USA - okay maybe if you travel there and spend a lot, but it’s not like your money is funding a new war as it’s a drop in the ocean. To me the USA WC is not sportswashing the country (they can’t really - people’s perception of their warcrimes will stick anyways), they’re just hosting a World Cup. Similar with Russia, albeit they bribed their way. (Who knows USA might have done that too)

 

[moses]

Yes, be selective, only in the case of specific countries, specifically not the west . Britain as a country is responsible for the misery of tens of nations around the world, the British government were awarded with the prestigious Olympic games on the back of the Iraqi war. FFS, some hypocrisy here is mind boggling .

You're really telling an Irishman that the British government are not saints? Really? I could bore you to death with the crimes of the British government but I don't see what it has to do with the Qatari regime and its catalogue of human rights abuses.

Soneone has to to hold conflicting views for it to be hypocrisy btw.

 

[Giggsyking]

By that metric, of course not. In practical, pragmatic terms, the US will always host such events that need suitable, virtually turn key infrastructure.

But I was only commenting on a kit manufacturer's protest. If you would like to continue this discussion, we can head to the Whataboutism thread.

Yes, use that card. It is the best card to use when got called out on hypocritic statements. That does not make it untrue, that USA the next WC host is responsible for the death of millions of people around the globe, and people who now crying about human rights will gladly attend and watch the next WC in USA.

 

[calodo2003]

Yes, use that card. It is the best card to use when got called out on hypocritic statements. That does not make it untrue, that USA the next WC host is responsible for the death of millions of people around the globe, and people who now crying about human rights will gladly attend and watch the next WC in USA.

Your reading comprehension is severely lacking.

 

[Raoul]

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/06/sports/soccer/qatar-and-russia-bribery-world-cup-fifa.html
Russia did the same in 2018, but there were no threads in the CAF nor people calling for boycott the World cup in a country like Russia at that moment. Everybody were happy traveling to Russia. But now everybody suddenly cares about the integrity of the vote and corruption. Lets be honest here, people only care now because it is in Qatar for only one reason.

You would be partially correct. Russia already largely had the infrastructure in place along with a tradition and long term interest in football. Qatar has feck all in this regard.

But as we’re seeing this year, Putin simply bribed his way into getting a WC so he could use it and the Sochi Olympics to sport wash domestic and international audiences before resuming his totalitarian fascist ambitions in Ukraine. Knowing what we know now, not only would most boycott a WC in Russia - it wouldn’t ever allowed to take place and would be moved elsewhere.

 

[moses]

If someone thinks only democratically elected regimes should get to hold the WC, then favouring the US (with all of its crimes) over Qatar is not hypocritical. Lots and lots of similar metrics apply. Some of you lot have become illiterate because of your hysteria.

 

[Giggsyking]

You're really telling an Irishman that the British government are not saints? Really? I could bore you to death with the crimes of the British government but I don't see what it has to do with the Qatari regime and its catalogue of human rights abuses.

Soneone has to to hold conflicting views for it to be hypocrisy btw.

Human rights abusing regimes vs murderous governments like the UK and USA?
pick which one is worse and is worthy of hosting a prestigious tournament like the WC or the OG.
I have no problem in people calling for the Boycott, but this shouts were never there in Russia and will never be there in USA, You know it, I know it, everybody knows it and there is only cause behind that.

 

[Raoul]

Your reading comprehension is severely lacking.

What about the west ?