Boehly is going to ruin Chelsea (hopefully)

WeePat said:
So you expect Chelsea to wait until what, the middle of July to sanction any sales? So 40 players turn up for preseason and let Poch decide who’s worth keeping?
Click to expand...

pretty much. Or at least give him say. Plenty of footage of your guys. I mean, Does he really want Jackson? You’d already signed Nkunku does he even want him? Does he really want Havertz and Mount to leave? Would he rather keep Kepa than Mendy? Whos playing 10 next season whos proven if both Havertz and Mount go? Is he planning on playing wingers? If so Madeuke, Mudryk and Pulisic dont look great to say the least. Whos holding midfield with Kante gone?

so many questions. Seems to me like another rinse and repeat of Potters tenure is on the cards with shitloads of players he doesnt know what to do with.

its not how its usually done - the new manager usually assesses what he has and then it becomes clear what gaps he needs to fill and which players should be sold.

madness. Surprised if Pochettinos still in the job come December.
 
Jezpeza said:
pretty much. Or at least give him say. Plenty of footage of your guys. I mean, Does he really want Jackson? You’d already signed Nkunku does he even want him? Does he really want Havertz and Mount to leave? Would he rather keep Kepa than Mendy? Whos playing 10 next season whos proven if both Havertz and Mount go? Is he planning on playing wingers? If so Madeuke, Mudryk and Pulisic dont look great to say the least. Whos holding midfield with Kante gone?

so many questions. Seems to me like another rinse and repeat of Potters tenure is on the cards with shitloads of players he doesnt know what to do with.

its not how its usually done - the new manager usually assesses what he has and then it becomes clear what gaps he needs to fill and which players should be sold.

madness. Surprised if Pochettinos still in the job come December.
Click to expand...

Well, the critical difference is that Poch has been consulted for months over the squad, unlike Potter who was dropped in and then had more players thrown in during the season.

You aren't wrong that a manager needs to assess what he has, but what you're missing is that that process has been ongoing for weeks now. Poch 100% is working with the hierarchy on these decisions; it's a major requirement for any manager under this regime.
 
Jezpeza said:
pretty much. Or at least give him say. Plenty of footage of your guys. I mean, Does he really want Jackson? You’d already signed Nkunku does he even want him? Does he really want Havertz and Mount to leave? Would he rather keep Kepa than Mendy? Whos playing 10 next season whos proven if both Havertz and Mount go? Is he planning on playing wingers? If so Madeuke, Mudryk and Pulisic dont look great to say the least. Whos holding midfield with Kante gone?

so many questions. Seems to me like another rinse and repeat of Potters tenure is on the cards with shitloads of players he doesnt know what to do with.

its not how its usually done - the new manager usually assesses what he has and then it becomes clear what gaps he needs to fill and which players should be sold.

madness. Surprised if Pochettinos still in the job come December.
Click to expand...
Mount is the only questionable one for me. Rest all were guaranteed to be sold by any manager.

They still need a striker , a winger and a midfielder though.
 
Jezpeza said:
pretty much. Or at least give him say. Plenty of footage of your guys. I mean, Does he really want Jackson? You’d already signed Nkunku does he even want him? Does he really want Havertz and Mount to leave? Would he rather keep Kepa than Mendy? Whos playing 10 next season whos proven if both Havertz and Mount go? Is he planning on playing wingers? If so Madeuke, Mudryk and Pulisic dont look great to say the least. Whos holding midfield with Kante gone?

so many questions. Seems to me like another rinse and repeat of Potters tenure is on the cards with shitloads of players he doesnt know what to do with.

its not how its usually done - the new manager usually assesses what he has and then it becomes clear what gaps he needs to fill and which players should be sold.

madness. Surprised if Pochettinos still in the job come December.
Click to expand...

That’s unrealistic, for starters. If we did that, we’d leave ourselves with very little time to prepare for the new season with the players who will actually be here.

Poch is the manager now. He went through a 2 month interview process. Of course he gets consulted on coming and goings.
 
bond19821982 said:
Mount is the only questionable one for me. Rest all were guaranteed to be sold by any manager.
Click to expand...

And I'm pretty sure Poch would like to keep Mount too but it's the player forcing the move. If Poch didn't fancy him either he'd have been sold already with little resistance (like Havertz, Kovacic).

@Jezpeza if you really believe Poch has had no say in the moves already done or those about to happen over the next few days then I don't even know what to say to you. Just because Poch hasn't yet had the chance to train those guys doesn't mean he's not already familiarized himself with the squad and more or less decided on who fits his game plans and who don't. And like @bond19821982 said most of the players now on the chopping block were always going to be on their way out regardless of who the manager was. Any transfer rumors for the players still on the fence (ie. Conor Gallagher and some of the youngsters) have been very quiet and I'm sure Poch wants to see them for himself first. It was also Pochettino who made the call of sending Joao Felix packing.

You do raise some valid points too but this big clear-out has been a long time coming and postponing the inevitable well into pre-season would not be to the benefit of anyone except our rivals. Going into this summer we absolutely needed to (and still do) trim down the squad size to a more manageable number and bring in some fresh new faces to replace some of the outgoings.

It's a big revolution at the club and it's probably not going to be all smooth sailing but it's also something that I think is necessary to happen for long term gain.
 
I don't know if it will work but at least Chelsea clearly has a plan, which is more than one can say for most clubs going through bad spells.

I think the biggest X factor is really Pochettino. A plan that relies on developing a generation of younger players really hinges on the manager, to a greater degree than plans that rely on experienced players. You need a manager not only that is comfortable working with them (which Poch has certainly shown) but also a manager that has the tactical vision to play winning football against top competition and put the players into contexts and situations in which they can succeed. Its that latter part where I have my doubts. Poch's work with Spurs was fantastic but the game has changed a lot since then. That Spurs team was built on aggressive pressing, wearing down opponents with their athleticism and physicality, and having one of the best strikers in the world that came out of the youth system to convert chances. They were never particularly good in possession and usually struggled a lot whenever any kind of real Plan B was required in a match, which is why Poch's record was so crap against the top six and in big cup matches. Now the league has changed a lot, the other top six sides all have excellent tacticians that play the kind of football Poch's Spurs usually struggled against, and the mid-to-lower table sides have themselves adopted much of Poch's former playbook in terms of pressing much more frequently and being really physically competitive and aggressive. You're not going to press and bully teams like Newcastle, Brighton, Aston Villa, and Brentford into submission today the way Poch's Spurs pressed and bullied the non top six sides into submission in 2016-17.

TLDR, a lot rides on how much Poch has grown as a manager since he left Spurs. Its hard to really assess that since PSG is such a black hole, where no manager could really get across ideas that weren't catering to the stars. So it will be interesting to see what he is like in round two in the PL.
 
Boehly will have learnt quickly, I think. Getting your hands burnt like he has is going to have opened his eyes to the way football operates. Football is its own island. You can't compare it with American sport, or the business world at large. Clubs and agents have seen Boehly coming and exploited his willingness to get involved and try and understand football as a business. They've kind of used the momentum he came in with as he overextended himself to pull his pants down.

But I don't think he'll keep on making mistakes. He's an intelligent fella, you don't get as far as he has without being able to adapt to what is in front of you. I think Poch was a far better decision than appointing Potter and Lampard for a start. I'm sure he'll have seen where he needs to defer to the expertise of others and what went wrong in some of the negotiations so far.

So I'd expect to see a more considered approach in future windows and I think it'll all calm down with a decent manager in place.
 
Powderfinger said:
I don't know if it will work but at least Chelsea clearly has a plan, which is more than one can say for most clubs going through bad spells.

I think the biggest X factor is really Pochettino. A plan that relies on developing a generation of younger players really hinges on the manager, to a greater degree than plans that rely on experienced players. You need a manager not only that is comfortable working with them (which Poch has certainly shown) but also a manager that has the tactical vision to play winning football against top competition and put the players into contexts and situations in which they can succeed. Its that latter part where I have my doubts. Poch's work with Spurs was fantastic but the game has changed a lot since then. That Spurs team was built on aggressive pressing, wearing down opponents with their athleticism and physicality, and having one of the best strikers in the world that came out of the youth system to convert chances. They were never particularly good in possession and usually struggled a lot whenever any kind of real Plan B was required in a match, which is why Poch's record was so crap against the top six and in big cup matches. Now the league has changed a lot, the other top six sides all have excellent tacticians that play the kind of football Poch's Spurs usually struggled against, and the mid-to-lower table sides have themselves adopted much of Poch's former playbook in terms of pressing much more frequently and being really physically competitive and aggressive. You're not going to press and bully teams like Newcastle, Brighton, Aston Villa, and Brentford into submission today the way Poch's Spurs pressed and bullied the non top six sides into submission in 2016-17.

TLDR, a lot rides on how much Poch has grown as a manager since he left Spurs. Its hard to really assess that since PSG is such a black hole, where no manager could really get across ideas that weren't catering to the stars. So it will be interesting to see what he is like in round two in the PL.
Click to expand...
Was his big six record that bad? Maybe away from home but I can't off the top of my head recall him losing that often at WHL/Wembley, and some of the ones I can remember Spurs were by far the better side and got unlucky (us in 2017, United in 2019).

I do agree the football wasn't as great as made out though, as you said they weren't that good in possesion and when hoofball teams basically negated the first build up stage and made it about Spurs breaking them down as opposed to forcing mistakes (which for me they were the best team we've ever played against not managed by Pep in that regard) they were pretty clueless, infact I'd go as far as saying that was the key difference between us and them in 2017.

Hopefully Pochettino has used his time away to study and evolve his methods like Howe did but gut instinct right now tells me he'll get us back in the top four mix and develop our young players really well but we may need to twist at some point to truly get back challenging for the league, hopefully if/when the time comes we make a better decision of successor than Spurs did :lol:
 
Dancfc said:
Was his big six record that bad? Maybe away from home but I can't off the top of my head recall him losing that often at WHL/Wembley, and some of the ones I can remember Spurs were by far the better side and got unlucky (us in 2017, United in 2019).

I do agree the football wasn't as great as made out though, as you said they weren't that good in possesion and when hoofball teams basically negated the first build up stage and made it about Spurs breaking them down as opposed to forcing mistakes (which for me they were the best team we've ever played against not managed by Pep in that regard) they were pretty clueless, infact I'd go as far as saying that was the key difference between us and them in 2017.

Hopefully Pochettino has used his time away to study and evolve his methods like Howe did but gut instinct right now tells me he'll get us back in the top four mix and develop our young players really well but we may need to twist at some point to truly get back challenging for the league, hopefully if/when the time comes we make a better decision of successor than Spurs did :lol:
Click to expand...

He only won 23 out of 82 matches and lost more than he won against every side except Arsenal (against which he lost the same as he won).

I agree that he may have refined and changed his approach since then and also that its a fine outcome for Chelsea if he just develops the young players for a season or two and then you bring in a more tactically astute manager to try to make the leap from top 4-5 side to title challenger again.
 
The way people make excuses for when it comes to Poch you'd think he's a 20 year-old management trainee.
 
Don't agree with the guy but it's a good graphic to see the squad situation, he missed anyone out?

 
Dancfc said:
Was his big six record that bad? Maybe away from home but I can't off the top of my head recall him losing that often at WHL/Wembley, and some of the ones I can remember Spurs were by far the better side and got unlucky (us in 2017, United in 2019).

I do agree the football wasn't as great as made out though, as you said they weren't that good in possesion and when hoofball teams basically negated the first build up stage and made it about Spurs breaking them down as opposed to forcing mistakes (which for me they were the best team we've ever played against not managed by Pep in that regard) they were pretty clueless, infact I'd go as far as saying that was the key difference between us and them in 2017.

Hopefully Pochettino has used his time away to study and evolve his methods like Howe did but gut instinct right now tells me he'll get us back in the top four mix and develop our young players really well but we may need to twist at some point to truly get back challenging for the league, hopefully if/when the time comes we make a better decision of successor than Spurs did :lol:
Click to expand...
We don't expect title challenge from pochettino straight away. We need to build the team with core young players this season.

No Europe will help us build the core team from there onwards add the required tools to the core team to take on city. Basically that's the idea for all the teams in league anyway.

Pochettino s Spurs did well against jose' and conte's Chelsea title winners in our title winning seasons. So he is not completely hopeless against top 6 considering he managed Spurs.

Actually clean slate of the squad will give pochettino advantage. Pochettino like conte has severe fitness protocol. That will also help us to start season with positive note in my opinion.
GoonerBear said:
Don't agree with the guy but it's a good graphic to see the squad situation, he missed anyone out?

Click to expand...

We aren't starting to spend yet. Come back when window closes.
 
GoonerBear said:
Don't agree with the guy but it's a good graphic to see the squad situation, he missed anyone out?

Click to expand...

It’s just pointless when people post stuff like that. Or when posters in here do the same thing.

Judging the squad before we’ve made a single signing this summer (not counting Nkunku here because he was signed in January) is nonsensical. We will sign AT LEAST 4 more players in extremely key positions.

It’s impossible to get an idea of how good we can be next season without first seeing the team Poch is building.
 
Orc said:
It’s just pointless when people post stuff like that. Or when posters in here do the same thing.

Judging the squad before we’ve made a single signing this summer (not counting Nkunku here because he was signed in January) is nonsensical. We will sign AT LEAST 4 more players in extremely key positions.

It’s impossible to get an idea of how good we can be next season without first seeing the team Poch is building.
Click to expand...

And then also excluding all the players we haven’t actually sold yet. Might as well include Caicedo and one other midfielder if he’s gong to exclude Mount and Kovacic.
 
Rajiztar said:
We don't expect title challenge from pochettino straight away. We need to build the team with core young players this season.

No Europe will help us build the core team from there onwards add the required tools to the core team to take on city. Basically that's the idea for all the teams in league anyway.

Pochettino s Spurs did well against jose' and conte's Chelsea title winners in our title winning seasons. So he is not completely hopeless against top 6 considering he managed Spurs.

Actually clean slate of the squad will give pochettino advantage. Pochettino like conte has severe fitness protocol. That will also help us to start season with positive note in my opinion.

We aren't starting to spend yet. Come back when window closes.
Click to expand...

It wasn't to agree with what he was saying, I just thought it was a good graphic to show current state of squad, and can provoke discussion about players you are looking to sign and how that will look after it.
 
Orc said:
Judging the squad before we’ve made a single signing this summer (not counting Nkunku here because he was signed in January) is nonsensical. We will sign AT LEAST 4 more players in extremely key positions.
Click to expand...
It's astonishing that Chelsea have spent as much money as they have and still need to sign "at least four more players in extremely key positions."
 
Iker Quesadillas said:
It's astonishing that Chelsea have spent as much money as they have and still need to sign "at least four more players in extremely key positions."
Click to expand...
Not really astonishing at all. We aren’t signing these players in addition to everyone we just bought. We’re about to sell off like a dozen players. Obviously some of them need to be replaced.
 
Dancfc said:
Some of those things happen after he stepped down from his 'director' role and let Eghbali/the recruitment team take control of things.

I somewhat get fans ignoring that for banter purposes but you would think people getting paid for their time wouldn't have allowed such an oversight.
Click to expand...

I think by Boehly, they meant Boehly+Eghbali as a couple with Boehly as the front face. Which of the listed points is not exactly on them? 14?
 
GoonerBear said:
Don't agree with the guy but it's a good graphic to see the squad situation, he missed anyone out?

Click to expand...


We'll sign another midfielder.

I agree attack can be difficult, if Poch can get the attack working, top 6 is realistic.

Definitely downside risks if the attack is still rubbish. Massive squad changes in a short time period.
 
Orc said:
Not really astonishing at all. We aren’t signing these players in addition to everyone we just bought. We’re about to sell off like a dozen players. Obviously some of them need to be replaced.
Click to expand...
That is also astonishing.
 
bringbackbebe said:
I think by Boehly, they meant Boehly+Eghbali as a couple with Boehly as the front face. Which of the listed points is not exactly on them? 14?
Click to expand...
Reports suggested Boehly sorted Mount's contract only for the newly set up recruitment to team to renage on it when he returned from the world cup.
 
bringbackbebe said:
I think by Boehly, they meant Boehly+Eghbali as a couple with Boehly as the front face. Which of the listed points is not exactly on them? 14?
Click to expand...

Aubameyang was clearly a signing Tuchel pushed for, in fairness. The way the medical thing has been written up there isn't really accurate at all and not really representative of the situation, plus I don't really understand what the problem is with performance incentives in contracts?
 
Chelsea won the Champions League 2 years ago and are getting rid of / have lost the overwhelming majority of the players who were on the pitch that day, to replace them with largely inexperienced players. For those players, they've paid approximately 185% of their estimated value on transfermarkt.
 
Dancfc said:
Reports suggested Boehly sorted Mount's contract only for the newly set up recruitment to team to renage on it when he returned from the world cup.
Click to expand...
TheMagicFoolBus said:
Aubameyang was clearly a signing Tuchel pushed for, in fairness. The way the medical thing has been written up there isn't really accurate at all and not really representative of the situation, plus I don't really understand what the problem is with performance incentives in contracts?
Click to expand...

Alright, what else? 13/16 is still a decent hit ratio.

16) Premier League All-Stars
15) The Mohamed Salah, Kevin De Bruyne academy
14) ‘Disrespecting’ Benfica over Enzo Fernandez
13) Outsourcing medical work
12) Pushing for Anthony Gordon
11) Dressing room faux pas
10) ‘Embarrassing’ rant
9) Paying £62m for Marc Cucurella
8) Signing Pierre-Emerick Aubameyang
7) Failed hijacks
6) Snubbing Mason Mount
5) Performance-related contracts
4) Re-apppointing Frank Lampard
3) Not buying a striker
2) Hiring Graham Potter
1) Sacking Thomas Tuchel

As far as medical, didn't you have a horrid time with injuries last year?
 
Last edited:
bringbackbebe said:
Alright, what else? 14/16 is still a decent hit ratio.

16) Premier League All-Stars
15) The Mohamed Salah, Kevin De Bruyne academy
14) ‘Disrespecting’ Benfica over Enzo Fernandez
13) Outsourcing medical work
12) Pushing for Anthony Gordon
11) Dressing room faux pas
10) ‘Embarrassing’ rant
9) Paying £62m for Marc Cucurella
8) Signing Pierre-Emerick Aubameyang
7) Failed hijacks
6) Snubbing Mason Mount
5) Performance-related contracts
4) Re-apppointing Frank Lampard
3) Not buying a striker
2) Hiring Graham Potter
1) Sacking Thomas Tuchel
Click to expand...
Depends if you want to say Eghbali too but as the author was clearly namedropping just Todd 3 (in January) and 4 isn't on him.

Although I think 3 is a bit of a simplistic argument, firstly because the striker market is pretty dry at the minute and we've already seen the disastrous results of splashing out on a "proven 9 who scores goals" without accounting for their systematic suitability and secondly because we did actually sign a player with a proven goalscoring record in the PL but that (so far) hasn't worked out.
 
bringbackbebe said:
Alright, what else? 13/16 is still a decent hit ratio.

16) Premier League All-Stars
15) The Mohamed Salah, Kevin De Bruyne academy
14) ‘Disrespecting’ Benfica over Enzo Fernandez
13) Outsourcing medical work
12) Pushing for Anthony Gordon
11) Dressing room faux pas
10) ‘Embarrassing’ rant
9) Paying £62m for Marc Cucurella
8) Signing Pierre-Emerick Aubameyang
7) Failed hijacks
6) Snubbing Mason Mount
5) Performance-related contracts
4) Re-apppointing Frank Lampard
3) Not buying a striker
2) Hiring Graham Potter
1) Sacking Thomas Tuchel

As far as medical, didn't you have a horrid time with injuries last year?
Click to expand...
You forgot listening to James Cordon as to what manager to hire.
 
Iker Quesadillas said:
Chelsea won the Champions League 2 years ago and are getting rid of / have lost the overwhelming majority of the players who were on the pitch that day, to replace them with largely inexperienced players. For those players, they've paid approximately 185% of their estimated value on transfermarkt.
Click to expand...
We are completely okay with dismantling last season team.

And cl was possible only because tuchel and that great little wonder kante. Without them it never happened.

Without kante that midfield never have a chance to hold against any half decent team. We have to completely rebuild the team and this season allow us to do that. Pochettino already had the experience to build the squad we are looking forward with optimism than doom and gloom.
 
Iker Quesadillas said:
What part of the rebuild required paying almost 200% of players' market values?
Click to expand...
Bit ironic having a Real Madrid supporter lecture another club about overinflated transfer fees, no? This is the reality now as you should well know. Young, super talented players cost ridiculous sums these days.
 
cyberman said:
You forgot listening to James Cordon as to what manager to hire.
Click to expand...
The only people i pity more than the saddo that wrote that article are the people who fell for an "exclusive" written in The Sun.
 
Dancfc said:
The only people i pity more than the saddo that wrote that article are the people who fell for an "exclusive" written in The Sun.
Click to expand...
My rule of thumb is if a Chelsea fan argues against a negative story about their club then that story ends up being true. I’m actually struggling to remember what story ended up not being true?!
It seems your club has many leaks but that’s what happens when so many people are unhappy
What about Tuchel showing up to training and not knowing why Zakaria was there only to find out the club signed him? Or trying to force Ronaldo onto him?

Edit has the Cordon story ever been denied? I remember Lampard even giving a diplomatic answer to it after losing v Madrid of all times to talk about it
 
Iker Quesadillas said:
Chelsea won the Champions League 2 years ago and are getting rid of / have lost the overwhelming majority of the players who were on the pitch that day, to replace them with largely inexperienced players. For those players, they've paid approximately 185% of their estimated value on transfermarkt.
Click to expand...
Astonishing.
 
cyberman said:
My rule of thumb is if a Chelsea fan argues against a negative story about their club then that story ends up being true. I’m actually struggling to remember what story ended up not being true?!
It seems your club has many leaks but that’s what happens when so many people are unhappy
What about Tuchel showing up to training and not knowing why Zakaria was there only to find out the club signed him? Or trying to force Ronaldo onto him?

Edit has the Cordon story ever been denied? I remember Lampard even giving a diplomatic answer to it after losing v Madrid of all times to talk about it
Click to expand...
I don't need to "deny" a story that has a) no direct quotes backing it up (not even anonymous sources) and b) came from The Sun.

If there's ever a perfect recipe for bullshit those two things would be the key ingredients.
 
Orc said:
Bit ironic having a Real Madrid supporter lecture another club about overinflated transfer fees, no?
Click to expand...
It would be ironic if I agreed with those transfer fees. Which I don't.
Real Madrid have thankfully not made that their entire transfer strategy since it is extremely hit and miss.
 
Last edited:
Mb194dc said:
We'll sign another midfielder.

I agree attack can be difficult, if Poch can get the attack working, top 6 is realistic.

Definitely downside risks if the attack is still rubbish. Massive squad changes in a short time period.
Click to expand...

So what do you reckon you'll sign this summer, and what do you reckon you need?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.