Schneiderlin doesn't have the passing or vision of Matuidi, while Herrera doesn't have the defensive game. Matuidi is the most complete midfielder out of the three.
Blaise Matuidi
- Thread starter Man-United
- Start date
That's probably true but we don't need that upgrade as much as we need a player like Pogba IMO.
Schneiderlin definitely did for Southampton. Don't judge him on a season spent playing for Louis "Shackles" van Gaal.
We have absolutely no need for a Matuidi type. A more pressing issue is finding someone who can control the tempo of the game who isn't a pensioner and getting someone like Pogba who can drive our play forward from midfield and create attacks. We're far more stocked for the future in the runner department than the midfielders-with-actual-skill department.
Herrera can't defend and schniederlin can't pass .
Matuidi is an upgrade on both of the above although pogba (pipe dream)would be better
Do they feck. Schneiderlin offers next to nothing going forward and all Herrera does is short pass and move. Matuidi is nothing like either
Bullshit, Herrera does a lot more than that and Matuidi isn't exactly some great ball player, he's a good runner with it but nothing on it that Herrera can't do, and schneiderlin covers the ground defensively the same as him.
Herrera is a tiki taka footballer. He doesn't dribble with the ball like Matuidi does nor is he a beast defensively like Matuidi is. Literally nothing like him. Schneiderlin can cover ground but has been the invisible man for much of last season. He also isn't a ball carrier.
Herrera can dribble with the ball and does his fair share of tracking back, all 3 are Jack of all trades masters of none, we don't need more of the same, we need 2 completely different types of CM's added to the ones we have, we need a top class AM that can turn a game and we need a playmaker, Matuidi is neither of those things.
I think Matuidi would give us a powerful box to box presence that we've been missing for years. I do like Herrera and Schneiderlin, just think both offer something completely different and both need to drastically up their game.
They need to up their game I agree and I am not even against Matuidi coming in, but we don't crucially need him, especially since he's struggled after his injury. We need the other 2 types of CM a lot more given the lack of genuine creative quality in our current midfielder's.
We won't need a top class AM if we are going to be playing 433 for most of the reason, as Miki and Martial, combined with Rooney & Pogba (possibly) either side of a CM. I think people pay too much attention to footballers having defined roles, like 'deep-lying playmaker' or 'destroyer' etc etc. In a 433 with 3 of Rooney, Schneiderlin, Bastian, Carrick, Herrera, Pogba (possibly), Kroos (possibly), Matuidi (possibly), there's a balance in the team and a good enough mixture of attack and defence in the midfield - the players can share the load going forwards and backwards, which is what most teams do when they play a proper 433 (see Enrique's Barca, Mourinho's RM or the current Germany side when Ozil isn't on the pitch). Miki creates more than most players in Europe, while Martial is also capable of creating as much as he scores, when he's on the left. Ibra, unlike any striker we've had since Berbatov or peak Rooney, can create for himself too if needed.
If Herrera plays the way we know he can (and he deserves a chance to show that, as no player can be judged having only played under LVG, who can make Messi look useless), and Schneiderlin shows his Soton form, we'll be fine. A lot of people forget that Schneiderlin contributed a lot to their forward play, and hasn't shown that side of his game yet here, bar one or two appearances. I think Mourinho's style will suit our current midfielders (not to say we shouldn't sign a new one), because he won't shackle them the way LVG did.
Matuidi is like Schneiderlin in that he isn't an attacking midfielder, but he contributes a lot to how the team attacks. I've watched a lot of PSG over the last two years and his drive/energy going forward causes a lot of trouble for defences (I know they're very different as players, but think a less exciting version of Anderson, who can defend). He is an underrated passer, too.
Basically some much needed presence. With the purchases made already and with Pogba on the radar also, we'd have it in abundance.
We got bullied last year in open play and on set-pieces especially. Get him in. Keep Herrera and chop Morgan and Afroman.
Went to a PSG game at the start of last season (when Di Maria was presented to the crowd at half time) and Matuidi impressed me more than anybody else on the pitch. Fantastic engine, good in all aspects of his game and able to contribute offensively way more than I expected.
As someone else said, French Fletcher!
As someone else said, French Fletcher!
Thanks for this. Great post.
Cantona who compliments Cantona
Otherwise, Raiola wants to build an empire at United as he did in Paris (Zlatan, Van der wiel, matuidi)
Otherwise, Raiola wants to build an empire at United as he did in Paris (Zlatan, Van der wiel, matuidi)
He's a good player, although I'm not sure he's massively different from Moussa Sissoko who is probably available for much less.
Matuidi is a class above Sissoko.
Cantona who compliments Cantona
Otherwise, Raiola wants to build an empire at United as he did in Paris (Zlatan, Van der wiel, matuidi)
I can see it as Raiola wants us to take Matuidi, otherwise he'll steer Pogba to Madrid.
Do we know the budget of United for the mercato?
Matuidi on a good day is one of the best in the world in his position, and his good days are often the biggest games. Sissoko on a good day is a 7/10 player.
If we sign him don't see Pogba coming here.
They're worlds apart.
Matuidi is a terrible DM, so if people think about playing him under two cms, they are mistaken. PSG tried and it was pretty bad.
He is miles better than Sissoko, who is basically a failed sprinter who can play a bit. He's a very important player for PSG, and their best midfielder after Verratti, I feel.
@JPRouve Yeah, he's more of a Schneiderlin type of player - good going forwards and backwards, but better in a 3 with the point facing the back four (having a player like Carrick behind him would work). He and Pogba or Rooney either side of a deeper midfielder would work very well - he needs the freedom to attack when the team has the ball.
@Cantonagotmehere Thanks!
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It's tough to say. I can't see us spending more than the £130m we spent 2 years ago (including the Welbeck sale), so that's probably the max. There will probably be some players leaving too.
Cantona who compliments Cantona
Otherwise, Raiola wants to build an empire at United as he did in Paris (Zlatan, Van der wiel, matuidi)
+ Maxwell
This worries me.. Remember we're the team that tried to play Fellaini as one of 2 cms...
Not with Mourinho. Let me calm you down. Moyes and LVG were gone.
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Well done
So, Mino Raiola - at his prime in Paris - was the agent of 5 PSG players!- Zlatan
- Maxwell
- Matuidi
- Van der wiel and...
- Gustavo Hebling (loaned to PEC Zwolle): strange acquisition BTW
Yeah. 1 or 2 midfielders are likely to be sold to finance all these acquisitions.
This wasn't quite what I meant, I used the term AM not as a specific but to describe the one in the trio with the genuine ability to feed the front 3 and chip in with goals, now it's fine if we get Pogba as he was ideally what I had in mind, but as it stands right now we have no one in the team that will add a spark and game changing quality to a 3 man midfield, we are overstocked with barely mobile has-beens in there with our only playmaker being 35, and you need one of those whichever set up up you look at, you can't just have 3 CM's running around doing a bit of everything.
Matuidi is fine at what he does, a very good player, my point from the start was in relation to the person saying we need him more than Pogba, which i totally disagree with.
I didn't necessarily disagree with your post, I know what you mean - it all depends on how Mourinho wants to make his team. I wrote my post with Pogba signing for us in mind - if he doesn't, we'd need one of Herrera or Rooney to be on top form for the whole year. No one knows how Herrera will perform under Mourinho, and Rooney is streaky as we all know, so i'd definitely want another midfielder if we can't get Pogba. I imagine Mourinho will make that happen, though.
I know what you mean about Matuidi and Pogba, though - I misunderstood you at first. Right now, Pogba offers something very different to what we have, whereas Matuidi would come in and do a similar job (although they are different players) to what we thought Schneiderlin would do when we signed him, so I agree. If we sign Pogba, I think our midfield will be more than enough to challenge for the title. Matuidi will only help that - he's a great player and one would be crazy to turn him down if it's a reasonable price, but Matuidi on his own may not be enough, as you said.
Maybe I am being overly hopeful on Herrera proving his worth under Mourinho, but I think if he doesn't, we're 1 (if it is Pogba) or 2 signings from having the best midfield in the league by far. City need serious reinforcing (Gundogan was a start, and would have been an amazing signing for us, exactly what we, and they, needed), Chelsea have Fabregas and Matic (both of which are excellent for 6 months and invisible for the next 6), while Liverpool and Arsenal simply don't have the quality that their fans think they do.
I would like to believe Herrera can improve under Jose and be closer to the player we saw at Bilbao and the second half of his first season here, but I'd see him more as the engine room #8 like Matuidi, with Pogba or whoever as the stardust CM so to speak. I'm not going on another Rooney rant, there's nothing left in his tank IMO, the odd game here and there but he needs moving on.
That's it mate, I was going from the perspective of simply debating the idea of one or the other, if we added them both I'd be happy, I just think Matuidi offers a slight upgrade on what we have where as Pogba offers a whole new dimension.
I agree there and share the Herrera hope, to me if we got Pogba and Herrera turned it around we'd have the two #8's needed for the system and would only need to finally replace Carrick with a player to sit at the base of the midfield and screen the back 4 while dictating tempo.
+ Alec Georgen from the academy, that makes it 6!Well done
- Zlatan
- Maxwell
- Matuidi
- Van der wiel and...
- Gustavo Hebling (loaned to PEC Zwolle): strange acquisition BTW
Probably a non-start for several reasons.
That said, if United sign him, I'll be really annoyed it didn't happen in his early-20s. It was obvious long ago how good he is. I guess Fletcher played well enough it wouldn't have been worth considering, but that ended several years ago.
That said, if United sign him, I'll be really annoyed it didn't happen in his early-20s. It was obvious long ago how good he is. I guess Fletcher played well enough it wouldn't have been worth considering, but that ended several years ago.
Inter Milan won the Champions League with a lot players in their 30s. Matuidi - at the age of 25 - was a trivial decent player of Saint-Etienne. His 1st international cap was with PSG.
I have forgotten our RB #3
I have forgotten our RB #3
We can get both. They work together pretty well in the national team.
Well Deschamps obviously thinks he is better than Schniederlin
Pogba-Matuidi in a midfield 3 is pretty good. If the holding midfielder is a similar player to Carrick(or even Carrick himself), that's a pretty darn good midfield.
Pretty much this. I think Herrera is going to be very good under Mourinho if he's afforded regular game time - if he can play the way he did in our 2015 run in, we'll be in good shape. Add to that an in-form Schneiderlin, and we will have a very good mix of creativity and solidity in our midfield - it just needs one more player (hopefully Pogba) to be the main man and make things happen. FWIW I think Rooney will be an important player for us, but I understand why so many people don't want him here. I'm just hoping the fact that Mourinho has wanted to manage him for so long will count for something - he's a proven man motivator and has changed several players. Who knows, though. I am a big Rooney fan so there is bias there, perhaps.
What we need is some sort of anti-ageing Benjamin Button formula for Carrick. I can't think of a single midfielder that would suit our team more, right now, than a 2013 Carrick. I think if Mourinho rotates and manages him well, he'll have a lot to offer us this season. A lot of people think he's finished but as Schweinsteiger is showing for Germany, LVG didn't do a lot of our older players any justice (Rooney included, I feel) - give Carrick a limited role this season and we will benefit. He's still the best passer of a ball in our team, and is probably the most intelligent on the field. Agreed though, we need someone to replace that hole behind the back four and the attacking midfield.
Very different player to Carrick but he plays in the same area, I regard Verratti as the best young midfielder in the game - PSG don't want to sell (and they don't have to), but if I could pick one player in that age range to sign, it would be him. He would be perfect for us, and would destroy the PL. Pipe dream for now, though.
Agreed. Having a creative and technically superb powerhouse midfielder to drive forward with the ball and start attacks, a runner to press like a madman and create space for others and a puppetmaster tucked in behind orchestrating the whole thing while shielding the defence is pretty much as good as a midfield can get without having some sort of freak crop of talent like Barca had with Xavi, Iniesta and Busquets.
I have a feeling Pogba, Schneiderlin/Herrera and Carrick/Basti/Blind will fill those roles very well for us under Mourinho. I can't see the point of signing Matuidi. He adds legs to a midfield, but I'm rarely impressed with his actual play. If we do get him and Pogba, I will start to wonder what sort of wages and signing bonuses we're offering, because if Raiola has that much of a boner for us this summer he must be getting the Pulp Fiction briefcase with every transfer.