Berbatov

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But surely it's no surprise Berbatov makes a transfer request. It was coming sooner or later. Really we get him, but right now I can see it go the to wire and maybe not be completed...:nervous:
It was a real surprise that Ronnie didn't make that request. I was certain that was going to happen. Up till this weekend the berb had kept his mouth shut and has acted very professionally. Now he's doing exactly what Calderon wanted Ronnie to do.
I've got to give it to Ronnie for that. It was entirely in his hands . Two words from him and he was gone. "I leave"
We tend to forget that he'll soon be back in a United shirt.
 
It was a real surprise that Ronnie didn't make that request. I was certain that was going to happen. Up till this weekend the berb had kept his mouth shut and has acted very professionally. Now he's doing exactly what Calderon wanted Ronnie to do.
I've got to give it to Ronnie for that. It was entirely in his hands . Two words from him and he was gone. "I leave"
We tend to forget that he'll soon be back in a United shirt.

ronnie didn't want to because he still has love for this club. as he stated in some interviews, yes i wanted to leave, but only if it benefits both parties.

spurs are just spurs. most players it seems don't make transfer requests anyways because they lose a massive payout. i'm guessing berbatov has been told by his agent that united will compensate upfront the money he will have lost out from making a transfer request.

mind you, we should've let this known to berbatov a long time ago so he would've put his transfer request in and moved along. pissing about over 3 million quid or so on a transfer this size is small time. just get him in here.
 
ronnie didn't want to because he still has love for this club. as he stated in some interviews, yes i wanted to leave, but only if it benefits both parties.

spurs are just spurs. most players it seems don't make transfer requests anyways because they lose a massive payout. i'm guessing berbatov has been told by his agent that united will compensate upfront the money he will have lost out from making a transfer request.

mind you, we should've let this known to berbatov a long time ago so he would've put his transfer request in and moved along. pissing about over 3 million quid or so on a transfer this size is small time. just get him in here.
Its not 3m though. We made a bid of 20M. That's all we've done. Spurs are talking 32M now. Every time it appears we are going to up our bid, Spurs up their valuation, so 20 has gone to 25, then 28, then 30 and now there's talk of 32M. It's all bollox. 28M is, I believe as high as we will go. That's 8M more than our last bid and it is still not enough for Spurs, hence the impasse.
Fortunately, we hold the Aces.
 
It was a real surprise that Ronnie didn't make that request. I was certain that was going to happen. Up till this weekend the berb had kept his mouth shut and has acted very professionally. Now he's doing exactly what Calderon wanted Ronnie to do.
I've got to give it to Ronnie for that. It was entirely in his hands . Two words from him and he was gone. "I leave"
We tend to forget that he'll soon be back in a United shirt.

I think the surprise was Campbell starting and SAF had faith in him to score and for us to win the match. Had we done so, the noises in the press would have taken a turn the opposite way and calmed down. Instead, we'd have had a lot of hype over our new striker. Things didnt quite go that way and so the surprise never quite came to be.

If the surprise was Berbatov handing in a transfer request, thats as good as admitting we're tapping him up isnt it? Else how would Ferguson know he's going to do it within 48 hours if there isnt contact between player, agent and Sir Alex?

I'd like to believe that A) Its coincidence and B) Ferguson is smart enough not to hint at something like that.
 
I think the surprise was Campbell starting and SAF had faith in him to score and for us to win the match. Had we done so, the noises in the press would have taken a turn the opposite way and calmed down. Instead, we'd have had a lot of hype over our new striker. Things didnt quite go that way and so the surprise never quite came to be.

If the surprise was Berbatov handing in a transfer request, thats as good as admitting we're tapping him up isnt it? Else how would Ferguson know he's going to do it within 48 hours if there isnt contact between player, agent and Sir Alex?

I'd like to believe that A) Its coincidence and B) Ferguson is smart enough not to hint at something like that.
I was impressed with Campbell and would have no problem with him starting at Pompey.

Fergie never said what the surprise was. And he never will. Thats all pure speculation (crafty sod he is). So no harm in that. I actually think he was trying to stir up a bit of speculation. That too would do no harm. Calderon knows all about that.
 
Fergie's surprise may have been the berb's request for a move. That's a BIG thing. As I've said, if Ronnie had've done that he would be a Real player by now. Calderon would have had his cock out.
Fergie's playing it cool and calm and should be able to get his man. We may have to wait another couple of weeks, which, in the grand scheme of things, is no time at all.

Agree.

United cannot break the impasse while Spurs continue their little 'price' game.
 
Fergie: I need four strikers

51_berba_280x390_558090a.jpg


By NEIL CUSTIS

Published: Today
rigTeaserImage
ALEX FERGUSON wants a fourth hitman to target another Treble.

Manchester United are due to launch a fresh bid for Dimitar Berbatov and their first for Roque Santa Cruz this week.
Ferguson’s side laboured to an opening-day 1-1 draw at home to Newcastle and were flat up front.

There was no Carlos Tevez due to a family bereavement and no Cristiano Ronaldo due to injury, leaving Wayne Rooney as the only proven goalscorer. Even when they are all fit, Fergie still wants someone in.

The Reds had four top goalscorers the year they did the Treble in 1999 and that is what manager Ferguson wants again.

He said: “We are working on bringing in another top striker.

“Having added strength up front is a situation I would really enjoy.

“Ideally, I like to operate with four experienced strikers, as we did when we won the Treble when we had Andy Cole, Dwight Yorke, Teddy Sheringham and Ole Solskjaer.”

Spurs are holding out for £30million for Berbatov, while United will need to bid at least £18m for Blackburn to even think about selling Santa Cruz.

Meanwhile, United have signed a lucrative five-year sponsorship deal with Saudi Telecom.

I think the reports in the paper get stranger and stranger. Are they saying we are making a bid for both Berbatov and Santa Cruz?

What happens if both bids are accepted? Do we buy both and what the hell do we use for money?
 
I was impressed with Campbell and would have no problem with him starting at Pompey.

Fergie never said what the surprise was. And he never will. Thats all pure speculation (crafty sod he is). So no harm in that. I actually think he was trying to stir up a bit of speculation. That too would do no harm. Calderon knows all about that.

The point is, if that was something he knew was going to happen (the transfer request going in within the 48 hour time period) SAF is not kind of idiot to hint that he knew about it beforehand or had something to do with it. It would be needless to do so afterall, the only possible effect it might have is the likes of Levy throwing more comments at him.

And whats the point of that I wonder when we're supposed to be trying to talk to his club and reaching a deal? I think you may be right about the Calderon stirring. I just dont think that, even if SAF had known that Berbatov would be handing in the transfer request, he would make even the slightest hint that he knew.

As for Campbell, he may need some time but he'll score us some goals this season if he stays and doesnt go on loan. Which frankly he could only do now if we sign 2 players... which isnt going to happen.
 
The point is, if that was something he knew was going to happen (the transfer request going in within the 48 hour time period) SAF is not kind of idiot to hint that he knew about it beforehand or had something to do with it. It would be needless to do so afterall, the only possible effect it might have is the likes of Levy throwing more comments at him.

And whats the point of that I wonder when we're supposed to be trying to talk to his club and reaching a deal? I think you may be right about the Calderon stirring. I just dont think that, even if SAF had known that Berbatov would be handing in the transfer request, he would make even the slightest hint that he knew.

As for Campbell, he may need some time but he'll score us some goals this season if he stays and doesnt go on loan. Which frankly he could only do now if we sign 2 players... which isnt going to happen.
I guess its all down to speculation. What I do know is that he DID stir up speculation, whatever he meant, and I believe it stirred up the berb more than anyone and could very well be the reason that he asked for a move. Chicken and egg.
 
I think the reports in the paper get stranger and stranger. Are they saying we are making a bid for both Berbatov and Santa Cruz?

What happens if both bids are accepted? Do we buy both and what the hell do we use for money?

Its just sensationalism like half of the Berbatov stories. They've taken what SAF said about "We like to operate with 4 experienced strikers" and made a whole story of speculation on what it could possibly but not probably mean, whatever will sell the most papers. Just like most of the Berbatov stories about how we've signed him 5 or 6 times this summer.

The truth is, SAF was stating the obvious. We do like that, but it doesnt mean we'll achieve that or even try to sign the players to achieve that this summer, it could be a long term goal. Given a year in the premiership, SAF may consider Campbell one of those 4, leaving the need for 1 more player. But we have no guarantees that he'll even sign that one this summer. Of course, we've been trying to sign Berbatov but if it doesnt happen it could be that SAF wants to wait for the next window or next summer to see where we're at with our chances of coming to an agreement. The price will be down, Spurs will have had a lot of time to line up replacements, etc.

I know nobody will like the idea of that, but SAF isnt the kind to panic. And if he thinks its worth waiting for a certain player, rather than overpaying by large margins or signing other players as stop-gaps or 2nd choices, he's going to do it regardless. So its an option for him.
 
I guess its all down to speculation. What I do know is that he DID stir up speculation, whatever he meant, and I believe it stirred up the berb more than anyone and could very well be the reason that he asked for a move. Chicken and egg.

Very true. Or maybe Berbatov read this thread and saw a few people were wondering why he hadnt handed in a transfer request yet. We'll never really know why the timing was as it was, its all quite possible.
 
Its just sensationalism like half of the Berbatov stories. They've taken what SAF said about "We like to operate with 4 experienced strikers" and made a whole story of speculation on what it could possibly but not probably mean, whatever will sell the most papers. Just like most of the Berbatov stories about how we've signed him 5 or 6 times this summer.

The truth is, SAF was stating the obvious. We do like that, but it doesnt mean we'll achieve that or even try to sign the players to achieve that this summer, it could be a long term goal. Given a year in the premiership, SAF may consider Campbell one of those 4, leaving the need for 1 more player. But we have no guarantees that he'll even sign that one this summer. Of course, we've been trying to sign Berbatov but if it doesnt happen it could be that SAF wants to wait for the next window or next summer to see where we're at with our chances of coming to an agreement. The price will be down, Spurs will have had a lot of time to line up replacements, etc.

I know nobody will like the idea of that, but SAF isnt the kind to panic. And if he thinks its worth waiting for a certain player, rather than overpaying by large margins or signing other players as stop-gaps or 2nd choices, he's going to do it regardless. So its an option for him.
I'd agree with all that except the last bit. Fergie won't sign any stop gap player or 2nd choice. We already have those. Its the berb or nothing for Fergie. And at a fair price.
 
I'd agree with all that except the last bit. Fergie won't sign any stop gap player or 2nd choice. We already have those. Its the berb or nothing for Fergie. And at a fair price.

Sorry, I actually meant the same thing. That IF he wants to wait on Berbatov for 6 months or a year to see if he can get him with a more reasonable deal in the future, he'll do it rather than go for someone else.

But I'm afraid I disagree that he wont go for a 2nd choice. Not that I think he will :lol: Just that he has the option to do that and if he feels its right he'll do it. I wouldnt imagine Larsson was our first option a few years ago, but he plugged a gap for a while. Sometimes you cant get what you want and instead have to do whats right for the club. It was a surprise back then too - something he doesnt normally do. If he were to do something of a similar move now it would be a surprise, but we know its something he'll think about even if he decides against it.
 
Sorry, I actually meant the same thing. That IF he wants to wait on Berbatov for 6 months or a year to see if he can get him with a more reasonable deal in the future, he'll do it rather than go for someone else.

But I'm afraid I disagree that he wont go for a 2nd choice. Not that I think he will :lol: Just that he has the option to do that and if he feels its right he'll do it. I wouldnt imagine Larsson was our first option a few years ago, but he plugged a gap for a while. Sometimes you cant get what you want and instead have to do whats right for the club. It was a surprise back then too - something he doesnt normally do. If he were to do something of a similar move now it would be a surprise, but we know its something he'll think about even if he decides against it.
Actually after I posted I thought about Larrson, and Blanc as well. He has done it before and he could surprise us all (there's that word again!)
 
Who in your opinion would be an appropriate "2nd choice"?

Well, I cant say I have the best scouting network in Europe. But I'll throw my own opinion in here and try and tie it in with Sir Alex's ideas. The fact he has chosen Berbatov rather than say, a Huntelaar shows something. That he he wants a proper footballer, someone with good ideas on the ball and someone who can make an impact in a close game not just with a finish to a chance created, but with a piece of skill that could even find another team mate in a better position. So I'd suggest that SAF's own criteria is that he wants a player who isnt just going to wait for chances to arrive in the box.

But thats all we really have from the Berbatov link. Because he's said a lot of things which dont really tie in with Berbatov. Like looking at a young player. Perhaps he felt we could have got Benzema back then but now realises hes wasting his time? Perhaps he was still looking at candidates and hadnt chosen Berbatov yet.

Then he said an experienced player, but he said it right after talking about Manucho and Campbell if I remember correctly. In that context, almost everyone is 'experienced' compared to Campbell and Manucho who, neither of which had played in one of the top 3 leagues in europe at the time. So he could definately have meant Berbatov.

Or, by experience he could have meant the experience of having won competitions and having been an important player to a big club. Something Berbatov hasn't really done yet.

Regardless, personally I look here and see most fans on this site are wanting us to sign one of two players.

Berbatov and Hunterlaar.

The people championing Berbatov are saying "Look at his superb vision and technical ability. His fantastic link up play would lead to him linking up well with Rooney and Ronaldo and make him one of our stars."

The people championing Huntelaar are saying "Take the champions league final for example. Tevez missed 2 or 3 chances a top striker should be scoring and we could have wrapped the game up a lot easier, not tried our luck on penalties."

And for me, the truth lies somewhere between these two arguments. Sadly there arent any players who are as clinical as Huntelaar but have as much footballing vision and talent as Berbatov. But you cant expect that. What there are though are players with similar finishing ability and similar vision and overall footballing talent to Berbatov, even if its a bit less than both.

Henry for example. Eto'o - though his vision isnt that close to Berbatov's at all, its still pretty good for a lead the line striker and he'd set up goals. David Villa too. And all 3 of those bring a lot of pace to go with it. Something which will only aid them in creating the space to use the said and detailed abilities above. Especially playing next to Rooney or Tevez - regardless of which one, both of them are among the top 5 or so creative strikers on the planet. The 3 I mentioned would gorge themselves on that creative ability next to them, create so many many oppertunities to be played in and when they are, they would make it count nearly everytime. That is simply how they have made their names.

Sadly, its looks like none of the 3 are available this summer's end. But again I refer to scouting networks - I'm sure there are other players in the same sort of mold as the above. Maybe they arent young or the highest profile players on the planet, but if they bring the same sort of qualities I'd be extatic. So yes, I'd be happy with another Larsson type deal, as long as the player were in that mold. Maybe they'd spend most of the season as a backup to Rooney and Tevez, but thats okay with me too. Both Rooney and Tevez have a lot more to offer than they did last season and frankly its possible that by the end of the season, Rooney and Tevez have cemented themselves as not only our first choice strike-force for the foreseeable future, but as the best strike force in europe for the foreseeable future also.
 
you lot just don't get it:

there are no surprises. Fergie was just winding up the press, as he will do from time to time.

There are no surprises because the time period has run out, not because there were never going to be any surprises. If we cant trust his words you cant tell us to trust his previous actions. Just because he's wound up the press before doesnt mean he'll do it each and everytime he says something like this. So I'll say again. "There are no surprises" is correct - because the period SAF himself suggested has passed and for only that reason.
 
There are no surprises because the time period has run out, not because there were never going to be any surprises. If we cant trust his words you cant tell us to trust his previous actions. Just because he's wound up the press before doesnt mean he'll do it each and everytime he says something like this. So I'll say again. "There are no surprises" is correct - because the period SAF himself suggested has passed and for only that reason.

you are too naive for words.
 
Well, I cant say I have the best scouting network in Europe. But I'll throw my own opinion in here and try and tie it in with Sir Alex's ideas. The fact he has chosen Berbatov rather than say, a Huntelaar shows something. That he he wants a proper footballer, someone with good ideas on the ball and someone who can make an impact in a close game not just with a finish to a chance created, but with a piece of skill that could even find another team mate in a better position. So I'd suggest that SAF's own criteria is that he wants a player who isnt just going to wait for chances to arrive in the box.

But thats all we really have from the Berbatov link. Because he's said a lot of things which dont really tie in with Berbatov. Like looking at a young player. Perhaps he felt we could have got Benzema back then but now realises hes wasting his time? Perhaps he was still looking at candidates and hadnt chosen Berbatov yet.

Then he said an experienced player, but he said it right after talking about Manucho and Campbell if I remember correctly. In that context, almost everyone is 'experienced' compared to Campbell and Manucho who, neither of which had played in one of the top 3 leagues in europe at the time. So he could definately have meant Berbatov.

Or, by experience he could have meant the experience of having won competitions and having been an important player to a big club. Something Berbatov hasn't really done yet.

Regardless, personally I look here and see most fans on this site are wanting us to sign one of two players.

Berbatov and Hunterlaar.

The people championing Berbatov are saying "Look at his superb vision and technical ability. His fantastic link up play would lead to him linking up well with Rooney and Ronaldo and make him one of our stars."

The people championing Huntelaar are saying "Take the champions league final for example. Tevez missed 2 or 3 chances a top striker should be scoring and we could have wrapped the game up a lot easier, not tried our luck on penalties."

And for me, the truth lies somewhere between these two arguments. Sadly there arent any players who are as clinical as Huntelaar but have as much footballing vision and talent as Berbatov. But you cant expect that. What there are though are players with similar finishing ability and similar vision and overall footballing talent to Berbatov, even if its a bit less than both.

Henry for example. Eto'o - though his vision isnt that close to Berbatov's at all, its still pretty good for a lead the line striker and he'd set up goals. David Villa too. And all 3 of those bring a lot of pace to go with it. Something which will only aid them in creating the space to use the said and detailed abilities above. Especially playing next to Rooney or Tevez - regardless of which one, both of them are among the top 5 or so creative strikers on the planet. The 3 I mentioned would gorge themselves on that creative ability next to them, create so many many oppertunities to be played in and when they are, they would make it count nearly everytime. That is simply how they have made their names.

Sadly, its looks like none of the 3 are available this summer's end. But again I refer to scouting networks - I'm sure there are other players in the same sort of mold as the above. Maybe they arent young or the highest profile players on the planet, but if they bring the same sort of qualities I'd be extatic. So yes, I'd be happy with another Larsson type deal, as long as the player were in that mold. Maybe they'd spend most of the season as a backup to Rooney and Tevez, but thats okay with me too. Both Rooney and Tevez have a lot more to offer than they did last season and frankly its possible that by the end of the season, Rooney and Tevez have cemented themselves as not only our first choice strike-force for the foreseeable future, but as the best strike force in europe for the foreseeable future also.
Good post there Ekeke. Nothing to argue with!
 
you are too naive for words.

So you are saying anytime SAF speaks to the press he's just winding them up, never actually giving out any information which might be correct?

It wont be everytime, but now and again he'll be doing more than messing about. He was messing about this time, we know that because the 48 hours have passed. But to assume as soon as he said it that he's just messing about would make you the naive one. Only SAF knows what he means everytime.
 
So you are saying anytime SAF speaks to the press he's just winding them up, never actually giving out any information which might be correct?

It wont be everytime, but now and again he'll be doing more than messing about. He was messing about this time, we know that because the 48 hours have passed. But to assume as soon as he said it that he's just messing about would make you the naive one. Only SAF knows what he means everytime.

c'mon, i didn't say ANY TIME -- but on this occassion, given the expression on his face, it's a safe bet he was just trying to get a rise out of them, just like i am doing to you right now.

people take him too seriously at times.
 
c'mon, i didn't say ANY TIME -- but on this occassion, given the expression on his face, it's a safe bet he was just trying to get a rise out of them, just like i am doing to you right now.

people take him too seriously at times.

Which is a fair point and something I didnt deny either :p Of course there was a chance he was just messing around. But there was also a chance it could have been something of substance and nobody knew for sure until the time expired.

Its done that now, so you were right with your first post - there was no surprise he was just joking.

My posts after that were just to clarify that. :D
 
c'mon, i didn't say ANY TIME -- but on this occassion, given the expression on his face, it's a safe bet he was just trying to get a rise out of them, just like i am doing to you right now.

people take him too seriously at times.
It's all speculation, which I believe is exactly what he wanted. I think he's learned from Calderon and if he had any sense he'd have learnt from the caf, exactly how his every word is disected, especially over such important matters. Yes, it was flippant, but also, I believe, calculated flippancy.
 
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