Park?? We bought him off the back of an awesome season for PSV in which he ripped Cafu a new arsehole in the Champions League semi-final.
Bebe
- Thread starter Raoul
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Park?? We bought him off the back of an awesome season for PSV in which he ripped Cafu a new arsehole in the Champions League semi-final.
I wouldn't really count any of them as punts. I'd say they were thought of as talented looking players who could make the step up here. I don't think anyone expected Klberson or Djembax2 to flop quite so hard.
Don't be daft, Park was a massive punt for the club.
I'd say it's a three-way split between established (but usually still relatively young) players who can take a step up, promising youngsters we've scouted from other clubs and snapped up early regardless of cost, and out and out kids who've either been with us since their childhood or we poached in their mid-teens.
Oh and of course, the fourth type, Robin Van Persie.
and if he continues his form in the Portugese league he certainly wont be.
He's the kind of lad you're desperate for things to work out for. Wherever that may be.
Can't tell if you're being serious or not?
Some people have an agenda and just stick to it. "Our punts never work, a waste of money".
I bet all the money we've spent on these players comes nowhere near what we spent on Veron in wages and transfers.
Yeah, that pretty much sums it up.
I don't think RvP was an exception though, SAF has never been afraid to spend big on established stars if he feels that they would make the difference for us. Veron, Berbatov, Hargreaves.
Some people have an agenda and just stick to it. "Our punts never work, a waste of money".
I bet all the money we've spent on these players comes nowhere near what we spent on Veron in wages and transfers.
Who said that?
Deadly serious.
You're right, spending four million on a player who had a good year at PSV can't be classified as a punt, what was I thinking.
I don't believe you. No-one could seriously say that 4m quid for a guy who had just been chosen, along with Andriy Shevchenko, Adriano, Samuel Eto'o, and Ronaldinho as one of the nominees for the 2005 UEFA Best Forward award as a massive "punt" for the club.
You aint that stupid Cina, nice try though
I don't believe you. No-one could seriously say that 4m quid for a guy who had just been chosen, along with Andriy Shevchenko, Adriano, Samuel Eto'o, and Ronaldinho as one of the nominees for the 2005 UEFA Best Forward award as a massive "punt" for the club.
You aint that stupid Cina, nice try though
Yeah but he was Asian and our only other Asian was Dong.
Massive risk.
Some people have an agenda and just stick to it. "Our punts never work, a waste of money".
I bet all the money we've spent on these players comes nowhere near what we spent on Veron in wages and transfers.
Very few signing aren't a punt I suppose...
Very few people saw Shevchenko failing in England before it happened for example.
Time to change my tag-line?
fecking hell Cina, people don't have to quote something out for you to get the general idea of the conversation. It's been a general theme on redcafe for ages.
People always complain when we sign a player whose not a big name.
Ok, so nobody said that.
I don't believe you. No-one could seriously say that 4m quid for a guy who had just been chosen, along with Andriy Shevchenko, Adriano, Samuel Eto'o, and Ronaldinho as one of the nominees for the 2005 UEFA Best Forward award as a massive "punt" for the club.
You aint that stupid Cina, nice try though
Shall we sign Bangor City striker Les Davies?
I think most players who have never played in this country before are a bit of a punt to an extent. You've no idea how they might adapt to English football.
Rebrov scored buckets of goals for Kiev, Huntelaar was tossed over for years on here, as I said Shevchenko didn't do it here either...that came as a massive surpise to many.
Veron couldn't do it...Afonso Alves was even given the big build up on here before he failed with Boro.
Forlan has gone on to big things in Spain but struggled to get going here and then lost his place in the side and was moved on.
Signing players with no experience of this league is always a punt (bar your absolute world class players) and even when it's not a punt in ability it can be on the system you want them to play in and/or injuries.
In the current squad he's a massive outlier, here's a list of the current squad's ages when they first signed as professional for the club (including the lads we paid money for who are out on loan):
17 - Welbeck, Cleverley, Evans, Giggs, Scholes, Fletcher, Amos
18 - Rooney, Powell, Henriquez, Rafael, Fabio
19 - Jones, Anderson
20 - De Gea, Smalling, Nani, Zaha, Bebe
21 - Hernandez
22
23 - Rio, Valencia, Kagawa, Buttner
24 - Evra, Vidic
25 - Carrick, Young
26 - Lindegaard
27
28
29 - RVP
Even in the broader history of Sir Alex's buys 29 is really fecking old for an outfield player.
He's certainly an exception in the current squad, I more so meant that it's not something he hasn't done before. If SAF thinks a player will really make the difference then he will go for him. Though a 29 year old is a step further than ever before.
Why?
And Van Persie is a step higher than anyone we've ever signed before, tbh. It was a once in a lifetime collision of circumstances I reckon. RVP's injuries keeping him at Arsenal until his peak, Arsenal's current status, his run-down contract, City winning the league, Sir Alex's age.
The funny thing is that the moneybags around us try and make these huge, world class, paradigm-shifting signings all the time. And all it took for us to go from on a level with City to way ahead of them was one £22 million pound player. Makes you wonder what we'd be like if Fergie did spend like the oil barons.
Obviously I'll be delighted if we win the league by one goal deflected in off Ando's arse, but I really hope we keep or even extend this lead, because then we'll be able to say to City fans that we probably have won the thing even without RVP.
The funny thing is that the moneybags around us try and make these huge, world class, paradigm-shifting signings all the time. And all it took for us to go from on a level with City to way ahead of them was one £22 million pound player. Makes you wonder what we'd be like if Fergie did spend like the oil barons.
Obviously I'll be delighted if we win the league by one goal deflected in off Ando's arse, but I really hope we keep or even extend this lead, because then we'll be able to say to City fans that we probably have won the thing even without RVP.
Yes he had just one good season but that good season was good enough to give him a first team spot in the Mexican WC team (though credit to the scouts for finding him early enough to get him signed prior to the WC). Its hardly like Bebe who was unknown to anyone but the massively autistic football fans.
I meant League 1 tbh, its a bit confusing when league 2 is the 4th division.
It's 7m? Who cares?
Yea because that nullifies the entire argument
Says the gumpster snapping his head like a pez dispenser going 'BEBE CANT CROSS GUYZ.. BEBE CAN'T CROSS GUYZ'.
pez dispenserI'm not sure it's relevant who "cares", but if we're judging how good a transfer it was we have to factor in the amount of money and 7 million is not a small amount, especially compared to the player that we got in return. He still has time to turn that around but as things stands it's a rubbish peice of business.
But we have paid loads more than that on other players and even failures. Veron we had to pretty much recoup straight away...
The fact that Bebe is and can be (being more important) given time to develop any even if he can become something that is not a one legged atomic right booted muppet then I don't really see how the fee matters.
It's like Anderson - we're all waiting for him to be that special player and what was his fee? 19m or something I don't even know. Would you say that was some bad business if he gets sold in the summer for not much?
I dunno - I just don't really see 7m on an outrageous punt as ridiculous as that being somehting to 'LOLOL LETZ ALL GIVEM SHIT FOR DA BAD TRANSFER'.
Discuss it I don't mind - even say he can't cross. I'll admit he had a shocker but there are numps in this thread such as TV telling people he's shit and can't cross but he's playing football and getting paid for it. More than a lot of us can really say. His story alone if he grafts a career in the highest league of any country it's a massive success for him.
The fact that Bebe is and can be (being more important) given time to develop any even if he can become something that is not a one legged atomic right booted muppet then I don't really see how the fee matters.
It's like Anderson - we're all waiting for him to be that special player and what was his fee? 19m or something I don't even know. Would you say that was some bad business if he gets sold in the summer for not much?
I dunno - I just don't really see 7m on an outrageous punt as ridiculous as that being somehting to 'LOLOL LETZ ALL GIVEM SHIT FOR DA BAD TRANSFER'.
Discuss it I don't mind - even say he can't cross. I'll admit he had a shocker but there are numps in this thread such as TV telling people he's shit and can't cross but he's playing football and getting paid for it. More than a lot of us can really say. His story alone if he grafts a career in the highest league of any country it's a massive success for him.
We could have had 3 Michus for 7M. Just saying.
Yeah, but would Michu, Michu and Michu form a good relationship on the field? Very similar styles of play.
Veron was rated as one of the best in his position in the world at the time. He just didn't settle in. People can't quite figure out why we paid 7 million for Bebe. It's not the same at all.
And if we have paid more than that on as bad (as things stand) players, then those are also poor transfers. As simple as that.
The fee always matters. How else do you judge a signing other than correleating the players performances/ability to the fee paid?
I think he would have been a bit of a flop signing given how highly rated he was when we got him but him being highly rated does stand as a slight justification for it. If we sign Gotze tomorrow for a big fee and he fails it isn't the same as over paying for a terrible player.
7 million for the player we've seen so far play for us in return for that fee is indeed a poor piece of business, no matter which way you twist it.
We also could have had two Djemba... Djembas though.
Amol wasn't comparing Veron I was saying that type of signing when it is a huge high profile 'flop' (though he clearly had the talent) we have had to recoup. This kind of drop in the ocean gives breathing room for the player.
It could still turn out to be a flop and 7m written off. I'm probably just going off on different tangents but I don't think he deserves to get scalded over it.
Don't know about that, but at least all three would have a very good understanding between each other, and will hit the ball into the back of the net rather than the orbit.
He (Bebe) doesn't deserve any criticism. We do, though, if his appearances for us so far were a good indication of his ability.
I called him a spastic for his pointless "lol, didnt read" post. And I deleted that last post, I shouldnt post when someone winds me up. Please remove the quote.
Oh, and
Solius?
Oh, and
Solius?
From the time we signed and all the reports/articles - all I've ever read is speculation as to what the fee was. Personally I don't think we paid 7m outright for him and if anything, that is the number we would eventually pay for him based appearances/performances.
Even if we paid 7m for him, I don't see a problem with it. If there are times when the instincts of our manager or those he completely trusts says take a punt at some random talent - then to me that's fine. They've earned the right to take a bigger risk than any normal signing once in a while. If it doesn't work out, it doesn't work out. Am sure those moaning about what we paid for him would be singing quite a different tune if he had panned out already (though he still has).
Even if we paid 7m for him, I don't see a problem with it. If there are times when the instincts of our manager or those he completely trusts says take a punt at some random talent - then to me that's fine. They've earned the right to take a bigger risk than any normal signing once in a while. If it doesn't work out, it doesn't work out. Am sure those moaning about what we paid for him would be singing quite a different tune if he had panned out already (though he still has).
Or literally dozens of Manuchos.
True. Its more like 3 million i guess.
7m was his buyout clause so I hardly think it was dependent on performances or appearances
I'd be very, very surprised if he even made it as a squad player here. I suspect he'll be shipped out at the first opportunity this Summer. Hope he makes it elsewhere, but it just won't happen here.