I won't be wondering that. I recognise that without taking punts on such players you don't unearth talents such as Javier Hernandez and Ole Gunnar Solskjaer.
Bebe
- Thread starter Raoul
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I won't be wondering that. I recognise that without taking punts on such players you don't unearth talents such as Javier Hernandez and Ole Gunnar Solskjaer.
The probably cost a third of the wages in comparison with RVP, which is a crucial point. Also they got sold for not too bad amounts.
In a nutshell, those kind of transfers dont hurt financially as at all and you can see why the club doesnt mind these kind of deals.
Rafael/Park/Lindegaard/Fabio/Vidic etc etc.
We've made a history of unearthing gems from nowhere. A lot of our recent current squad have been similar sort of signings.
Lindegaard?
Huge unjustice to Chicha and especially Solskjær to compare them to fecking Bebe who couldnt make a single cross playing for the first team.
Bebe seems to be doing better, no doubt, but seriously. Give any league 2 player the privilege of training with the best youth setup in England for more than a year and they would improve immensely.
Whether or not Bebe improves to become a player able to hold a squad role in an English midtable club or not, its clear as crystal that his level of ability, both initial and potential, was far from what should be expected for the price we bought him for and that the transfer was dodgy as hell.
Its not at all like unearthing gems like Hernandez and Solskjær. Those two both had very good records in their respective leagues and came to the club with buckets more ability than Bebe.
I think there's good talent there, maybe even Manchester United quality, but he's just too far behind. It's almost impossible to expect him to improve in time for the level required at Old Trafford when it's partly basics he has to learn.
He's scored in the Champions League.. So I stopped reading there.
If he continues to do well in Portugal and we don't sell him over the summer then hopefully he can get a loan in the premier league or championship next season.
Good keeper plucked from nowhere. I'd say he fits.
That's wrong. Chicha had one good season for Chivas in the Mexican League. He has turned out to be excellent but he could've easily been a one season wonder. Let's credit our scouts for that.
Also not sure any league 2 player could've so easily gone to Portuguese top league and get 2 MoTM in 4 matches.
Classic case of good scouts scouting the product and not the goal return.
In our setup Chicha is a unique player as he has razor sharp poaching skills and I don't doubt that the scouts saw that in him and knew that he was good enough to play for United.
Have to agree. Bebe is actually impressing for his club at the moment and that's not something any old player could do. Gotta give credit to the guy for sticking at it, under immense scrutiny and credit to our staff who I am sure have helped him become an actual professional football, who appears to be good enough to carve a career for himself.
He is very very raw - but you've got to admit you can see why scouts saw something there. Had he not been under so much pressure and went straight into the reserves for a year before featuring then maybe it may have put him under less pressure.
As soon as the boss said he's never seen him play and the 7m fee (which tbh is peanuts) the media had it him for him. And it's like Sir Alex was playing him due to pressure.
In any case, he's not simply some random non-league footballer - but he's no Ronaldo either (which is what I think everyone was hoping).
Will he come good? Probably. Will it be at United? Probably not.
As soon as the boss said he's never seen him play and the 7m fee (which tbh is peanuts) the media had it him for him. And it's like Sir Alex was playing him due to pressure.
In any case, he's not simply some random non-league footballer - but he's no Ronaldo either (which is what I think everyone was hoping).
Will he come good? Probably. Will it be at United? Probably not.
Pace, power and determination. I personally don't see why a club why United should be scolded for spending 7m in that case. 17 or 27 then yeah I can understand but 7m to secure a raw player for the future at the time.
I am baffled when people harp on about it being such terrible business and when opposition fans give us shit I just laugh.
I'm still not convinced he actually cost us £7m cash.
7 million is a lot of money. You don't expect a 22 year old who doesn't really look like he has the ability to play at this level. And Fergie never even saw him play. As things stand, it is awful awful business.
Vidic was an international defender. The twins were 16. Hardly the same
The twins joined us when they were 18. Bebe joined us when he was 20.
For every Hernandez there is a Tosic.
Anyway, it's not like we've "made a history" of it. We've a pretty expensive squad that for the most part contains players that were already well known and not particularly cheap.
Anyway, it's not like we've "made a history" of it. We've a pretty expensive squad that for the most part contains players that were already well known and not particularly cheap.
Every squad contains cheap punts. Tosic has done well in Russia and we recouped his fees when we sold him.
Right, but it's not like we've "made a history" as Twigginator said. Every now and again we unearth a few gems, but you'd expect that with a scouting network as vast as ours, and it's not like we've a 100% record doing so.
Yeah well it's your fault that you are taking Twigginator seriously.
I don't take him seriously, I just like to piss all over his overly joyous attitude.
Trust you to want to piss on people.
For the most part? We've probably got about 10 players who cost over 10 million.
My memory of this is pretty hazy, but wasn't there talk that he could have been signed for free (or at least cheaper) if we'd moved quicker? That makes the 7m look worse.
I'm not writing him off just yet. I think his performances against Wolves and Crawley were a case of being asked to contribute too soon. He needed this loan, and he needed the time in the reserved. His time in Turkey will have slowed him down, but he's still young.
If he doesn't make it at United, he'll still be a good player.
I'm not writing him off just yet. I think his performances against Wolves and Crawley were a case of being asked to contribute too soon. He needed this loan, and he needed the time in the reserved. His time in Turkey will have slowed him down, but he's still young.
If he doesn't make it at United, he'll still be a good player.
Quiet you!
http://www.manutd.com/en/Players-And-Staff/First-Team.aspx
Rio, DDG, Rooney, Smalling, Jones, Young, Nani, Valencia, RvP, Carrick, Anderson, Kagawa.
12 out of around 24/25. Then you've players like Vidic and Evra, who whilst relatively cheap were already established players, so hardly gems we randomly unearthed.
I'd say the only players in our current team who qualify for the "made a history" theory you've come up with are Hernandez, Smalling (still 10m+ though), Rafael, and then to a less extent Fabio and Lindegaard. I hold out judgement out Buttner, Henriquez, Powell etc for a while.
Not a lot really.
Would you say we have a history of bringing through youth into the first team?
Yeah I know.
Would you say we have a history of bringing youth through though Cina?
Because you disputed my claim. You said we only had 5 players we could count really.
So now I'm asking you if we have a history of bringing youth through? Because we only have 6 players this year who have come through youth? So obviously we don't have a history of doing that either.
Would you say we have a history of bringing youth through though Cina?
Because you disputed my claim. You said we only had 5 players we could count really.
So now I'm asking you if we have a history of bringing youth through? Because we only have 6 players this year who have come through youth? So obviously we don't have a history of doing that either.
That's a pretty good number even if you are excluding Vidic/Evra type deals.
Talent required to make at United is way more than other lower level clubs, so most players who have ability to make it here would be hyped up in some quarters to different degrees anyway.
5 players who could count as unearthed gems we purchased, which is what you said. And only 3 of of them really count, so far.
Did I say we don't have a history of bringing youth through? Nope. Youth players however are not purchased, the players you're speaking of are, so it's a different scenario, because they're comparable to the other players we sign where as youth is not. They're not punts, they cost nothing at all.
For the record, our ability to bring youth through hasn't been great lately, we're living off the past and the golden quartet of players that broke through in the early 90's. This is the first time in a while we've brought through two really potentially quality youngsters who regularly play in our team.
I'd say our recent history under SAF is much more about signing well established players who can make it to the next level, or paying big for the best youngsters out there, than the unearthed gems or youth we've brought through. 12 out of 25 players (and some of the rest of those include the likes of Macheda) clearly shows that more of an emphasis has been on buying quality over taking punts.
People seem to love bragging about how we don't have to spend the big money that other teams do to build great squads under SAF, when in reality most of our best 11+7 cost quite a bit of cash and adds up to a hefty amount.
Rafael and Fabio joined to the youth, United is their first club. Hardly comparable.
Vidic was Red Star captain, and amassed 20 caps for Serbia, as well as being the biggest transfer for a defender at the time at Russia when he moved, and was part of the World Cup Qualies that Serbia surpassed Spain in the group with some really solid performances defensively. Yes he was relatively unknown but he was established defender at that time.
Tosic, Dong, Manucho, Bebe, Miller, Djemba x2, Kleberson etc were punts that we took and didn't turn quite well.
Lindegaard has played like 20 matches it's not like we can judge if he's a good or a bad buy, he's a backup keeper and has done relatively well to this point.
It was a bit tongue in cheek Cider FFS.
I remember us royally ripping the piss out of the scousers for all of those players 'being shit'. When it suits eh?
They weren't shit of course...just not good enough for the top end of the Premier League.
Bebe has had a ton of stick, and yes he might not be good enough for this league in the long term, but he has certainly showed he has enough talent to make it as a footballer. Good stuff.
Add to that Bellion (£2.6m), Diouf (£4m) etc...
Speak for yourself I suppose. Personally I don't call Premier League players shit unless they're first name is Mario. I've certainly never called Diouf or Baros shit. So, not 'when it suits', no, not really.
I wasn't directing it at you personally.
You seem to have taken my post awful serious Cider. As I said...very tongue in cheek.
Love how Vida was not a punt but a Brazilian who started the WC final in 2002 and a Cameroonian who played in the French League and was part of the AFCON winning team are deemed to be punts.
Bebe isn't a laughing matter.