BBC: United hold talks with Mourinho

Would you be happy to see Jose Mourinho become next United manager?

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prath92 said:
It maybe but that's still more than what some people do. True, Rashford may not have got a run if Rooney was fit but even then most other managers would just play someone like mata or Memphis as a false 9 in that situation. Not a lot of managers would play a rookie 18 year old up front for his first ever senior game in a do or die European game. Mourinho for sure wouldn't have. He had courtois injured for 3 months and saw them signing some free agent keeper as third choice. If that had been us we would have surely given chance to say Dean Henderson or Sam Johnstone or someone.

I'm not a big fan of van gaal but I don't have any problem giving credit for whatever positives he did for us. I don't see why we should downplay it as something lucky.
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It is luck, with SAF I've seen continuity in giving youth a chance, he knows exactly where to play them, when to play them, when to loan them (Beckham with Preston, come back and started as first eleven), he knows when to cut the players and give them another career opportunities. I don't see anything resembling any sort of long term plan.

With LVG it looks as if he's just throwing numbers to the field, take lingard for example, he doesn't give him a proper position and his positions varies from game to game, and as a result Lingard becomes just another failed debutant. Scores a goal and exciting for 2 games and gets back to mediocrity. McNair wasn't ready, why in the world he throws him to the first eleven only for him to fail spectacularly and practically ended his United career?

It's very easy to play youth, just pick them for starting xi and let release the hound, but to carefully plan and manage a youth's debut so that they last for years to come took a very long considerations.

I would even argue that LVG destroy's the youth's career by throwing them too early too soon (McNair, Blackett. Powell)
 
LonelyFire said:
You've been saying that for weeks. Nothing was ever going to happen till the season ended. Not long to wait but I suspect you'll be wrong.
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Aye and people have been saying for months that it's 100% happening which I find utterly bizarre. If any journo really had an insight into this, the story would have broke by now, in an official capacity. I don't think any decision has yet been made yet, but unfortunately I feel that LvG is staying.

I hope I'm wrong of course but I've yet to see anything concrete that has swayed my belief. It's great and all filling the back pages with stories about how Mourinho will be our next manager and have £300m to spend; the thing is, all of these stories are basically built on no foundations whatsoever. I just can't fathom how some on here are so overly confident that this is done - I mean, it might happen and I hope it does, but right now, it looks far from a done deal.

Obviously this is all my gut instinct as I, nor nobody else has anything concrete to go on. We will have to wait and see, but I'm very much in the 'I think LvG is staying camp' - it would be an awful outcome as he really has to go, but I have a bad feeling.
 
Robbie Boy said:
Aye and people have been saying for months that it's 100% happening which I find utterly bizarre. If any journo really had an insight into this, the story would have broke by now, in an official capacity. I don't think any decision has yet been made yet, but unfortunately I feel that LvG is staying.
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What makes you so sure of that?

The rumours and confidence behind them is very similar to those surrounding Pep before he officially got the City job and those were circulating for almost a year before anything concrete or official came out.

There are a whole host of reasons why all parties would want to keep this quiet until the end of the season.
 
Sky1981 said:
This is one excuse united fans over using, new to club need to find his feet etc.

Lukaku storms the league in his first year, Costa ditto, mata on his first chelsea stint, Hazzard, Aguerro, even the coaches hits the ground running.

We are being too lenient, we give players like rafael 5 years and probably will give him morw if he's not sold. We waited bloody years for rooney and we still go with the same let's try him in midfielder.

Sometimes i dont know if we're that gallant of a fans or just plain dumb
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Waiting for 2 years is not same as waiting for 5. Don't think anyone says 5 years here. Just because some players managed to have a good first season not everyone can. Martial is having a good first season doesn't mean everyone else is crap.

Dismissing a 21 year old and declaring him useless based on 1 season is what should be called dumb
 
diarm said:
What makes you so sure of that?

The rumours and confidence behind them is very similar to those surrounding Pep before he officially got the City job and those were circulating for almost a year before anything concrete or official came out.

There are a whole host of reasons why all parties would want to keep this quiet until the end of the season.
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Because, erm, it would be a massive story and I'm sure everyone wants to be the first to break it. Generally how journalism works. Which brings me back to my original point; I don't think anything has yet been decided, hence why no one has got any exclusive on this. The story changes on a near daily basis.
 
Robbie Boy said:
Because, erm, it would be a massive story and I'm sure everyone wants to be the first to break it. Generally how journalism works. Which brings me back to my original point; I don't think anything has yet been decided, hence why no one has got any exclusive on this. The story changes on a near daily basis.
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It's a huge story but so was Pep to City and that didn't break for months and months, despite everybody in football seemingly knowing it had already happened. I was exactly where you are when the Pep rumours were circulating - in fact I remember making the same points about nothing being decided yet.

But when almost every journalist is saying the same thing, and all are smugly confident in saying "wait and see", just like they were back then, I think it has happened. Van Gaal crying like a little girl about how unfair it was for him to have to work with such paupers riches earlier in the week just confirmed it.
 
Also, almost every paper has broken the story, multiple times. Until there is an official confirmation from the club, how much more story do you think they can break?
 
Fergie sold established players like Ince, Kanchelskis and Hughes in their prime to make way for youth players. That's called trust.

LvG's hands were forced by injuries, and luckily most of them turned out ok, and a couple turned out great. So please don't buy into the "It takes guts" BS. It could easily have gone so badly for him, if not for the academy coaches who have prepped the young players well.

I think that he will go, unless we win all our last 5 matches and get 4th and the FA Cup. I'm hoping he goes, regardless.
 
fatboy said:
Fergie sold established players like Ince, Kanchelskis and Hughes in their prime to make way for youth players. That's called trust.
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That's a beautiful legend, but one decided to leave and was out of contract (Hughes) while another (Kanchelskis) demanded to go and had issues.

The real credit is for not signing players to replace them (though he did try for Anderton at least...) and give those lads a chance.
 
diarm said:
It's a huge story but so was Pep to City and that didn't break for months and months, despite everybody in football seemingly knowing it had already happened. I was exactly where you are when the Pep rumours were circulating - in fact I remember making the same points about nothing being decided yet.

But when almost every journalist is saying the same thing, and all are smugly confident in saying "wait and see", just like they were back then, I think it has happened. Van Gaal crying like a little girl about how unfair it was for him to have to work with such paupers riches earlier in the week just confirmed it.
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I don't think anything has confirmed it whatsoever. Here's a story from April 5th: http://www.independent.ie/sport/soc...is-staying-at-manchester-united-34600648.html. It just shows how much bollox is out there in the media and how no one has a clue. Go to Google and you can literally get any different perspective on this story; ie, LvG is definitely staying / Mourinho is definitely coming in.

The fact is that none of us really know what is happening. We all know (well most anyway) that LvG absolutely has to go, but whether he will or not is a completely different story. It was never going to happen until the end of the season anyway, I knew that. That became obvious when LvG somehow managed to come through December / January with his job intact. I'm not proclaiming that he won't be here next season, but my take on the matter is that it's unlikely. I just don't understand how some people are saying with 100% certainty that this is done. It's all about what interpretations that you take from what has been said in the media to-date and my take is that there has been far too many contradictory stories for me to believe anything.
 
Robbie Boy said:
Aye and people have been saying for months that it's 100% happening which I find utterly bizarre. If any journo really had an insight into this, the story would have broke by now, in an official capacity. I don't think any decision has yet been made yet, but unfortunately I feel that LvG is staying.

I hope I'm wrong of course but I've yet to see anything concrete that has swayed my belief. It's great and all filling the back pages with stories about how Mourinho will be our next manager and have £300m to spend; the thing is, all of these stories are basically built on no foundations whatsoever. I just can't fathom how some on here are so overly confident that this is done - I mean, it might happen and I hope it does, but right now, it looks far from a done deal.

Obviously this is all my gut instinct as I, nor nobody else has anything concrete to go on. We will have to wait and see, but I'm very much in the 'I think LvG is staying camp' - it would be an awful outcome as he really has to go, but I have a bad feeling.
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I've posted this before but don't underestimate the impact the way the Moyes situation was handled. The club made it clear to a number of Utd based journalists that they wouldn't be in same position again. The outcome will be known to a select few (I suspect neither SAF nor Charlton are aware for certain). So, I'm not surprised there is guessing in the papers. They don't know for certain but people in the game are wondering based on other things happening (scouting etc) so they're reporting it.

I'm still of the opinion this has been done for a while.
 
LonelyFire said:
I've posted this before but don't underestimate the impact the way the Moyes situation was handled. The club made it clear to a number of Utd based journalists that they wouldn't be in same position again. The outcome will be known to a select few (I suspect neither SAF nor Charlton are aware for certain). So, I'm not surprised there is guessing in the papers. They don't know for certain but people in the game are wondering based on other things happening (scouting etc) so they're reporting it.

I'm still of the opinion this has been done for a while.
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Well that's the thing, it's absolute guesswork from the papers and that's pretty evident as the stories change so regularly. People taking this as gospel, really shouldn't.

I hope I'm wrong, as I've said and I've nothing to go on bar my gut instinct and how I have interpreted the media coverage of the whole thing. I guess the ones that are 100% confident that this is done, will pick up on every little sign or any body language from LvG to point to the fact that he's a dead man walking. Until this is confirmed by the club, I will remain highly sceptical about the whole thing. The FA Cup Final is on May 21st, so I guess the following week will be telling.
 
Sky1981 said:
It is luck, with SAF I've seen continuity in giving youth a chance, he knows exactly where to play them, when to play them, when to loan them (Beckham with Preston, come back and started as first eleven), he knows when to cut the players and give them another career opportunities. I don't see anything resembling any sort of long term plan.

With LVG it looks as if he's just throwing numbers to the field, take lingard for example, he doesn't give him a proper position and his positions varies from game to game, and as a result Lingard becomes just another failed debutant. Scores a goal and exciting for 2 games and gets back to mediocrity. McNair wasn't ready, why in the world he throws him to the first eleven only for him to fail spectacularly and practically ended his United career?

It's very easy to play youth, just pick them for starting xi and let release the hound, but to carefully plan and manage a youth's debut so that they last for years to come took a very long considerations.

I would even argue that LVG destroy's the youth's career by throwing them too early too soon (McNair, Blackett. Powell)
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It annoys me when people sing high praises for Fergies youth development. He did a wonderful job early on with youth but failed miserably in the last 5/10 years of his reign here, what players did Fergie put through exactly? He was heavily reliant on the old guard. Show me the list of players from our youth ranks that have made it here 2005 onwards?

LVG needs to be gone, pretty much everyone agrees there but why is it so hard to accept he's done good things with bringing our youth through to the first team? He's intentionally trimmed the squad to give youth players a chance, that in itself is evidence of his commitment to developing young players. We've got the likes of Rashford, TFM and BJ establishing themselves as first teamers and being given time on the pitch over seasoned players because he believes on them. And if it's so easy just to pick kids in the starting XI why isn't Pogba lining up for us?
 
Amir said:
That's a beautiful legend, but one decided to leave and was out of contract (Hughes) while another (Kanchelskis) demanded to go and had issues.

The real credit is for not signing players to replace them (though he did try for Anderton at least...) and give those lads a chance.
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There were some issues for sure, but I clearly remember it largely same as a surprise for me as a fan that they were allowed to leave.

But yes the point was that Fergie could have easily signed established players to replace them during that summer. Thank god Anderton didn't happen.
 
Sky1981 said:
It is luck, with SAF I've seen continuity in giving youth a chance, he knows exactly where to play them, when to play them, when to loan them (Beckham with Preston, come back and started as first eleven), he knows when to cut the players and give them another career opportunities. I don't see anything resembling any sort of long term plan.

With LVG it looks as if he's just throwing numbers to the field, take lingard for example, he doesn't give him a proper position and his positions varies from game to game, and as a result Lingard becomes just another failed debutant. Scores a goal and exciting for 2 games and gets back to mediocrity. McNair wasn't ready, why in the world he throws him to the first eleven only for him to fail spectacularly and practically ended his United career?

It's very easy to play youth, just pick them for starting xi and let release the hound, but to carefully plan and manage a youth's debut so that they last for years to come took a very long considerations.

I would even argue that LVG destroy's the youth's career by throwing them too early too soon (McNair, Blackett. Powell)
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I don't understand a lot of things.

1. I would say Fergie did equally stupid stuff too. He often played Phil Jones and Smalling at RB. Maybe took months off Smalling s career development.

2. McNair was excellent last season. Besides that one game where he came off at HT, he played very well most games. So I don't see how he could be considered as having had his career destroyed or that he wasn't ready. Everyone wanted Thorpe but he chose McNair and was justified last season. I don't think it's luck more than intentional choice.

3. What varied positions? He has played CBJ as a LB, varela as RB, lingard either in the wings or as an AM (which isn't such a varied position for him. I m sure he has played there before), Rashford as a CF or a RW (both positions he has played well). I don't know what you mean when you say failed debutant. Lingard scored 4 or 5 goals this season and just as many assists. So he didn't become failed anything.

4. Too early for Powell ? SAF played him 3 years ago. He played Europa for Wigan. How can it be too early? Blackett will never be ready. So that's that.

So basically I don't think it's just luck and some haphazard method which you claim.
 
LvG started with Lingard, Rashford and TFM in FA Cup semi final even though he could've easily gone for easier options. So therefore it might be that he stumbled upon these youngsters, but he's now showing immense faith in them.

Everyone wants him gone but it's okay to give credit where it's due.
 
KM said:
LvG started with Lingard, Rashford and TFM in FA Cup semi final even though he could've easily gone for easier options. So therefore it might be that he stumbled upon these youngsters, but he's now showing immense faith in them.

Everyone wants him gone but it's okay to give credit where it's due.
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Spot on.
 
KM said:
LvG started with Lingard, Rashford and TFM in FA Cup semi final even though he could've easily gone for easier options. So therefore it might be that he stumbled upon these youngsters, but he's now showing immense faith in them.

Everyone wants him gone but it's okay to give credit where it's due.
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I agreed. Sorry I was the one who stirred up this discussion. :devil:

The highlight point I wanted with that post is different managers have different ideologies. No right or wrong. I disagree with writing players off before there is a certainty in managerial post. A player/ young player fortune can change drastically with a manager change. Kane might not be shit, but the way previous Spurs manager work, it's unlikely he would got his break through. Or if it's another manager, Rashford would still be in the U21 while Januzaj is flying in the first team (LVG style of integrating youth is not fit with player like Januzja . We don't know that. We can only appreciate what the managers do good.
 
Stack said:
Sure, I understand this. I like the guy to be honest but I do think he needs to move on. If he leaves at the end of this season he will leave us in a better situation overall than when he started. I do love the fact these young players have got a chance to play and that he chose them. I just dont think he actually "developed" them, most of the development work for the majority of them took place before he started.
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I am giving him credit for recognising talent and giving a chance to the deserved. Rashford was barely known in the United circles but he was trusted to start an important game. Same with McNair last year. Most managers would have played a false 9 or a CM in CB or something.
 
KM said:
LvG started with Lingard, Rashford and TFM in FA Cup semi final even though he could've easily gone for easier options. So therefore it might be that he stumbled upon these youngsters, but he's now showing immense faith in them.

Everyone wants him gone but it's okay to give credit where it's due.
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yep. I've read views where fans said Rashford would drop out of the lineup when Rooney returned. Well......
 
ivaldo said:
It annoys me when people sing high praises for Fergies youth development. He did a wonderful job early on with youth but failed miserably in the last 5/10 years of his reign here, what players did Fergie put through exactly? He was heavily reliant on the old guard. Show me the list of players from our youth ranks that have made it here 2005 onwards?

LVG needs to be gone, pretty much everyone agrees there but why is it so hard to accept he's done good things with bringing our youth through to the first team? He's intentionally trimmed the squad to give youth players a chance, that in itself is evidence of his commitment to developing young players. We've got the likes of Rashford, TFM and BJ establishing themselves as first teamers and being given time on the pitch over seasoned players because he believes on them. And if it's so easy just to pick kids in the starting XI why isn't Pogba lining up for us?
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Because they hate him,in their eyes he didnt do a single good thing for our club so far,nothing good for our future either,time under Moyes was so much better etc. In few weeks times we might win FA,they gonna hate him even more. If we win,they say its despite him,if we lose its all him.People went that far to wish us loosing games under him,then used terms like "greater good" to defend their stances.
 
Only three bookies still taking bets on this (it was around 8 a week ago) and the best price you can get is 1/3 with BetVictor out at 1/5.
This is already done :)
 
R'hllor said:
Because they hate him,in their eyes he didnt do a single good thing for our club so far,nothing good for our future either,time under Moyes was so much better etc. In few weeks times we might win FA,they gonna hate him even more. If we win,they say its despite him,if we lose its all him.People went that far to wish us loosing games under him,then used terms like "greater good" to defend their stances.
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If we win the FA Cup it makes us Arsenal, nothing more. Is that good enough?
 
Rednotdead said:
If we win the FA Cup it makes us Arsenal, nothing more. Is that good enough?
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Let's not win it then.

R'hllor said:
Because they hate him,in their eyes he didnt do a single good thing for our club so far,nothing good for our future either,time under Moyes was so much better etc. In few weeks times we might win FA,they gonna hate him even more. If we win,they say its despite him,if we lose its all him.People went that far to wish us loosing games under him,then used terms like "greater good" to defend their stances.
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I make you right. It seems you either have to love him or detest him, you're not allowed to be anywhere in the middle.
 
KM said:
LvG started with Lingard, Rashford and TFM in FA Cup semi final even though he could've easily gone for easier options. So therefore it might be that he stumbled upon these youngsters, but he's now showing immense faith in them.

Everyone wants him gone but it's okay to give credit where it's due.
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Yeah. If we get a CL spot by the skin of our teeth, an FA Cup and the emergence of a talented group of youngsters then I'll look back at his last season here fondly (sort of).

He's still left us with a lot to do despite spending a fair whack but I'd feel good going forward. A lot depends on getting Champions League though and that feels just out of our reach.
 
prath92 said:
I am giving him credit for recognising talent and giving a chance to the deserved. Rashford was barely known in the United circles but he was trusted to start an important game. Same with McNair last year. Most managers would have played a false 9 or a CM in CB or something.
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Anyone who followed the youth and reserve team knew of Rashford, he was probably the most recognised talent and the one most expected to do great things. He was well known within the Utd coaching setup as one of the most promising players long before LVG showed up.
 
Jazz said:
I doubt if Mourinho is the manager that Giggs would stick around. Mourinho is way too paranoid to want that to happen:lol:
But agreed it's too distracting. Let the new manager have some space to breathe and get on with the job. The club shouldn't be worrying about Ryan's future or feelings - we haven't got time for this. We need to concentrate on getting competitive again and soon.
Besides, Ryan has a lot of contacts and opportunities if he chooses to take them, he'd be all right.
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To be fair on Giggs (not many on here are really) I think this would be a pretty good opportunity to gain more experience. Especially under Mourinho, a guy who actually knows how to win the league in England. I'm definitely not saying that we should force him onto Jose if he comes. But if I were Giggs in this scenario I'd definitely be trying to align myself with him and garner a role close to the top to gain more managerial experience.

I'd have been much happier if Giggs was being groomed these last three/four years under Mourinho than what has transpired under Van Gaal.
 
Stack said:
Anyone who followed the youth and reserve team knew of Rashford, he was probably the most recognised talent and the one most expected to do great things. He was well known within the Utd coaching setup as one of the most promising players long before LVG showed up.
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As winger. Very new to forward position and was not highly rated for his scoring/shooting.
 
ti vu said:
As winger. Very new to forward position and was not highly rated for his scoring/shooting.
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Thats funny because I was watching him every week playing up front in the reserve and youth teams. "In the 2014/15 season, Marcus played almost exclusively as a centre forward due to injuries and the squad size. He finished the season with 13 goals from 23 games, not a bad return really. He was also the captain. He had been earmarked for a big future by the club and travelled to the AEGON Future Cup in 2012 with the Manchester United Under-17 team despite being an Under-14 at the time. As an Under-16, he broke into the Manchester United Under-18 side in the 2013/14 season and made 17 appearances scoring 4 goals."
 
Stack said:
Thats funny because I was watching him every week playing up front in the reserve and youth teams. "In the 2014/15 season, Marcus played almost exclusively as a centre forward due to injuries and the squad size. He finished the season with 13 goals from 23 games, not a bad return really. He was also the captain. He had been earmarked for a big future by the club and travelled to the AEGON Future Cup in 2012 with the Manchester United Under-17 team despite being an Under-14 at the time. As an Under-16, he broke into the Manchester United Under-18 side in the 2013/14 season and made 17 appearances scoring 4 goals."
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There 2014/2015. I am not saying he is bad finisher, but he is considered new for the position. That's not a bad record. Not to compare who is better, but James Wilson had always been groomed as forward, and his scoring ratio was much better for U18 level. Point is Wilson is more renowned as striker, while Rashford only started playing forward last season = newer to the position.
 
Ramscock said:
We havent won the league since 2004?? Wow I must have been on a glorious trip.

See this is the sort of shit Im talking about .
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On your glorious trip you completely missed the point. Arsenal won the FA Cup the last 2 years and that's the extent of their achievements. Winning the FA Cup should be no more than a step along the way to greater things, not an end in itself.

Maybe you think differently though, and are satisfied with a lower level of achievement.
 
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