Okay thats fair enough, you dont abuse him, many do. I see what he is trying to do. He has done a fair bit wrong but I see what he is trying to make us. Its moot anyway he will be gone be it this summer or next.
BBC: United hold talks with Mourinho
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Okay thats fair enough, you dont abuse him, many do. I see what he is trying to do. He has done a fair bit wrong but I see what he is trying to make us. Its moot anyway he will be gone be it this summer or next.
So you reckon it will be shit next year with even with the young attacking players progressing so well?
Then you'll recall Big Ron's team being far more exciting than the shit-on-a-stick football we've had to endure under Vangle. Although I don’t think you're old enough to remember Ron's United.
As long as LVG is around yes. Thankfully I'm optimistic that won't be the case.
So, it seems that we now have fans who want an award for
1, accepting boring football and losing/drawing.
2, for supporting the club pre-1993.
3, supporting a manager who is not cut out for this job and who openly targets and aspires to finish in 4th place, every season.
4, for being born in the 70s.
With regards to what rival clubs who haven't won trophies or even a game for 25 years - I don't give a damn about them and I hope they don't win a trophy for another 25 years.
I only care about MUFC and want them to be the best they can be. And this means winning, which won't be happening with LVG in charge.
1, accepting boring football and losing/drawing.
2, for supporting the club pre-1993.
3, supporting a manager who is not cut out for this job and who openly targets and aspires to finish in 4th place, every season.
4, for being born in the 70s.
With regards to what rival clubs who haven't won trophies or even a game for 25 years - I don't give a damn about them and I hope they don't win a trophy for another 25 years.
I only care about MUFC and want them to be the best they can be. And this means winning, which won't be happening with LVG in charge.
You can look at it like that but it is also the first season in a new league in a new country and in Schneiderlins case a big step up. I will judge completely after another season but I fear for Memphis. Not only must he adapt but his whole technique is wrong for the English league.
Knicker shoppers I call them. You know the ones, usually sitting in one of two chairs in a big department store on a Saturday while their wife/ girlfriend shops for underwear. Sunday is usually a drive in the country so no football then either. If it's a Monday game they are busy repairing the knicker draw so no football there either. They will then argue with you on this fictitious notion of Manchester United that is gone and only existed under Ferguson.
I have watched every second of every game for the last 28 years baring one or two dozen games but this season has been torturous to say the least. If I can't watch a full game you know these guys don't. Support for the sake of support is for the weak. This is sport, it's football, its tribal. If you don't want you're team to win every second of every match then what are you in it for. It's not life or death but a release from the grind. I take no enjoyment from United losing regardless of the situation, but I do understand how and why it happens and am realistic about our current situation.
Other supporters have been taking the piss now for three years but some United fans are happy because they don't have the glory hunter tag around their neck anymore. If that is the case just don't support the club, don't come to this forum and tell us to be realistic, that United should be lucky to have a manager that doesn't believe in trying to score goals. Don't tell us to be happy that the institution we love dearly should hand the keys to the castle to a complete novice because he is a club legend. We want the best and what ever it takes that's what the club should do. SAF rebuilt this empire to a level where everything is in place to be the best in the world. In my opinion the only bump in the road to achieve this is that the club is located in Manchester. Not a slight on the city, I love the place but it makes it very hard to sign truly world class stars. That's why the club can and should throw cash around to secure these players and back room staff.
It's a wonderful ride to get to the top, see Leicester or Man City but the hardest part is staying there, see United.
He has his fingers in a lot of pies alright but I would like to say this to him. If you are only interested in being the manager of Manchester United then you are not interested in football management. Respect you're craft and take the proven road. Achieve something in management and ground yourself before even dreaming of taking on a club like United. The fans know absolutely nothing about you in terms of club and academy management and direction. The little tidbits you have graced us with have been typical football cliches. Does being part of two failed management set ups not make you think that this job is harder then it looks. You have coached under two managers with 50 years of football management experience between them and watched them fail and attempt to lower the fans expectations to their own limitations. You are a club legend no doubt but every welsh fan I have spoken to thinks you are a prick for the way you treated international football. I understand you lost interest, it is Wales after all but what happens to the club if the pressure is to much for you or you decide this is not for you. Does this club deserve three failed managers, are you willing to risk this for your own vanity. What's the plan Mr. Giggs or is it just acceptable to sit there and watch this muck until SAF and Rio talk you in to job you are so not ready for.I doubt if Mourinho is the manager that Giggs would stick around. Mourinho is way too paranoid to want that to happen
But agreed it's too distracting. Let the new manager have some space to breathe and get on with the job. The club shouldn't be worrying about Ryan's future or feelings - we haven't got time for this. We need to concentrate on getting competitive again and soon.
Besides, Ryan has a lot of contacts and opportunities if he chooses to take them, he'd be all right.
I love Ryan Giggs as a player but towards the end I did feel it was unfair to play a 38 year old in midfield instead of looking to the future and I looked forward to his retirement. I kind of feels the same now. If the club force him on everyone then it's him I'm embarrassed for, not the club. It's like the kid no one wants at the party but his parents are big wigs in the area and no one wants to cross them.
A couple of years with out a title?. We have been utter rubbish this season and are regressing to a dangerous place for a club of this size. Everything built and achieved is decaying because people believe this club is special. United is as special as Real, Barca, Bayern, Milan, Liverpool (ugh) yet those clubs are decisive with there decisions when it comes to matters of football. Some people think the magic of one man will suddenly appear in whoever we decide will manage the team, lunacy. Anyone who does not want to see this club win everything should not deride the fans who do. Well done people, you supported the club when there was still the back pass rule. Football has moved on to not another level but another galaxy compared to the game of the 70's 80's and 90's. If Leicester City can win the league from last place in 12 months then it is very possible the opposite can happen. It's the clubs responsibility as a whole to ensure we compete at the top, especially with the resources United have. Why should we be castigated for wanting this?. I don't understand. I realize you can't win everything and accept that graciously but in a European game against our biggest rivals needing 3 goals in 45 minutes I don't accept our manager making direct subs for a RB, LB and DM. This for me is a failure of the management, coaches and club. In the words of the filth down the road, We. Can. Do. Better.
Lol 0 for 2 Spoony. I remember my first FA Cup final United 2 Brighton 2 then 4-0 replay. Yes Big Ron more exciting no denying that.
I'm with ramcock on this
I have chopped and changed for months now on if I want him to stay a third season or not. And I'm happy wth my selection in the poll to evaluate at the end of the season
But the more I think about it, I really think for the long term it would be best for the young players he stayed on one more season
That is assuming he continues to progress them... His treatment of Adnan and Pereira worries me but him showing so much trust in Rash, Lingard and TFM makes me want to see that again next season
I think the team could show large improvements under Lvg as long as him and woody don't go retarded again in the transfer window.
I have chopped and changed for months now on if I want him to stay a third season or not. And I'm happy wth my selection in the poll to evaluate at the end of the season
But the more I think about it, I really think for the long term it would be best for the young players he stayed on one more season
That is assuming he continues to progress them... His treatment of Adnan and Pereira worries me but him showing so much trust in Rash, Lingard and TFM makes me want to see that again next season
I think the team could show large improvements under Lvg as long as him and woody don't go retarded again in the transfer window.
Think Januzaj is more an attitude problem. Plus, I think he's rubbish.
In terms of showing trust, and I've said it before, if someone is good enough then it's hard to ignore them. If Lingard could find consistency in his finishing he'd be lethal.
Still don't want LvG next year....As much as I do like him and prefer him to Moyes
The Sun (Neil Custis) is going big on Jose Mourinho tomorrow and says he has been confirmed as the new manager within the last 48 hours (not yet confirmed by the club).
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepag...xt-season-after-advanced-talks-Exclusive.html
Pretty vague, really.
Pretty vague, really.
Anything to distract attention away from his diet.
It's Custard Custis.
I am not fully with you here, but agree on certain points.
What I see in LVG way of developing young players is that LVG tries to develop the players a whole package. Compare to SAF, who distinctly opted to make use of the youngster best attributes first, then hopefully they fill out the other attributes! So under SAF, we tended to have youngster (not entirely true for bought young players like Ronaldo, Rooney, Pique, Pogba... where they are known for having all around good attributes) who flawed in some attribute and never filled out. (Some were able to to fill out and Co92 has more success than most).
Example of these flawed players: Welbeck cannot score consistently lack the edge of real striker. Cleverley's physically mentally weak. He has some weird but good technique. Also has a good sense of moving into good position but can't make anything out of it. Evans lacks of physical strength and arguably mental strength too, can't perform to his best without having a senior figure beside. Macheda knows how to score but lacks everything else... We have some current ones that seem to follow the trend in Januzaj, Wilson. Both have some/many stunning attributes, but at the same time their other attributes weren't up to standard in team/under managers who require all around skills.
There is no saying the above can't fill out in the future, just the idea to compare with LVG way below. Wes Brown, O'shea, Fletcher's abilities IMO are all around balanced and are success. They filled out quite well, and because their contest is simply better or bad luck that they couldn't get better.
LVG youth development is getting them fill out all around then push up to next level, rinse and repeat. He will come off as breaking what is supposed to be working, but that's the philosophy behind it. He wants the players to together reach a comprised level, then push the whole team improve again with it. So in a sense, some player has to tone down their bets attributes to improve their weakness to match their teammates and make a cohesive team. LVG wants to get the young players involves in first team (not particularly get play time), but to submerge in the culture/ philosophy. He would give young players play time occasionally with first team and see how the youngsters fare. Those who prove themselves would be more involved. Here the big difference is LVG doesn't want to field 11 youngsters/ or youngsters with underplayed/reserve players. That would make play U21 team in real completions, not first team! He wants to field few youngster at a time with first team starting XI so the youngsters have actual real first team football. Problem our first team and starting XI is no where near complete/ good enough.
In contrast, SAF first team experience is often being more about fielding U21 team in League Cup, FA Cup easier tie.Youngster made onto first team often have their weakness covered, carried by the senior players in hope the young players would one day fill out. Some did, some didn't. In SAF some players have to sacrifice more to cover for others to allow them to bring out their best attribute. By doing so, some players would suffer and stagnate their own progress. While some youngsters grow older but couldn't grow up their game and couldn't perform as well when the the senior players not around. There is no right wrong here though. Not entirely fault of either the player or the managers for him to not develop as expected. Just different managers have different ways/ philosophy. I myself prefer LVG's way in case we have an established team.
Mourinho is questionable when talking about bringing in load of youngsters onto the first team, but I can tell his method is similar to SAF's. Therefore fortune for some youngsters would term around quickly in a bad way or good way as he tends to make use of available best attribute than developing all around players
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I dont see why people think LVG develops young players. The people who have done all the work have been the backroom coaching staff and coaches the players have had while they grew through the junior and youth ranks. LVG has given them a chance but in all honesty much of that has been forced on him by the injuries. I seriously doubt we would have seen Rashford get a run this season if Rooney hadnt been injured. LVG thinned the squad back so far he was forced to use the young players when we had all these injuries. thats not developing a player at all.
Perhaps, the better word is "integrating" youngster into first team and develop them at first team level. Luck counts, so surely LVG can't take 100% credit for it. However, there is no denying both SAF and LVG have some credit on making young players into real professional first team players, be it at top or lower level.
Kudos to youth coaches for developing fairly good youngsters in recent years despite of the negative picture the media tried to paint us.
Edit: Before some people jump on me being pro LVG, I think I should make my stance clear that I think LVG should leave after this season regardless final result of the season. LVG vision would take long term plans and our situation is not suitable for that long term plan. LVG seems to be stuck at compromised level and unlikely to push to the required top level in time. Then Giggs seems likely to revert back to SAF way than continuing where LVG left regardless and that's not accounted the level Giggs could provide, so we would go in circle in rebuilding. Our situation (first team level is not good enough) won't permit this kind of endless rebuilding. So safer bet is getting a new experienced manager this season who can make use of Van Gaal's half working stuff and go from there, than going full Van Gaalized. Bayern did the same with Heynckes and got unbelievable success.
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What can I say? Meltdowns on the caf are really something else. Comedy gold!
I hope so. Atleast for your sake.
Fair enough but what about his treatment of the senior players. All you Van Gaal supporters go on about youth but totally ignore the senior players and lack off.
You do know he is retiring in 12 months. Judging by his two seasons what could he possibly do to get us above a Pep City, Klopp Liverpool, Poch Spurs or Wenger Arsenal. You are forgetting these very important factors in you're blindness of giving the kids a few more games. What is stopping Rashford, Martial or TFM wanting to leave if we fail to get top four next season?.
Woodward is willing to splash the cash but would any world class player want to come and play under Van Gaal and then possibly Giggs?. Not a fecking chance, we were lucky to get Schweinsteiger and I bet he's looking forward to a new manager after being thrown under the bus by Van Gaal a couple of times. If Van Gaal was 15 years younger no top 10 team would touch him after these last two seasons and the money spent. Open you're ears guys.
Wanker, laid down a challenge to lose pounds on the points we won and he's still a fat bastard. I know he is reading this as well. All those red top shit merchants Google themselves every hour.
I agree with your stance that in our situation, the priority is improving the first team level and it is not good enough. And seeing other teams likely to up their level come next season, LVG's unlikely to be up our game. And Giggs doesn't come off as LVG follower, so likely another rebuild ahead. This is not a good situation to be at, so no no to LVG staying, despite I have great respect for some of his work.
I disagree on your conclusion though. If Van Gaal is that much younger, then hypothetically I can see we would stick to him as a medium to long term and his 2 years so far is more acceptable. That doesn't matter really because that's not real scenario here.
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This is one excuse united fans over using, new to club need to find his feet etc.
Lukaku storms the league in his first year, Costa ditto, mata on his first chelsea stint, Hazzard, Aguerro, even the coaches hits the ground running.
We are being too lenient, we give players like rafael 5 years and probably will give him morw if he's not sold. We waited bloody years for rooney and we still go with the same let's try him in midfielder.
Sometimes i dont know if we're that gallant of a fans or just plain dumb
It maybe but that's still more than what some people do. True, Rashford may not have got a run if Rooney was fit but even then most other managers would just play someone like mata or Memphis as a false 9 in that situation. Not a lot of managers would play a rookie 18 year old up front for his first ever senior game in a do or die European game. Mourinho for sure wouldn't have. He had courtois injured for 3 months and saw them signing some free agent keeper as third choice. If that had been us we would have surely given chance to say Dean Henderson or Sam Johnstone or someone.
I'm not a big fan of van gaal but I don't have any problem giving credit for whatever positives he did for us. I don't see why we should downplay it as something lucky.
This!!! So much!!
What about people (like me), who aren't pro Mourinho but still think it's a 100% done deal?
So Redcafe this summer when LVG stays/Mourinho joins: 1 part crying, 1 part laughing, 1 part going "feck the morons, NEYMAR for 200m!!"
Sure, I understand this. I like the guy to be honest but I do think he needs to move on. If he leaves at the end of this season he will leave us in a better situation overall than when he started. I do love the fact these young players have got a chance to play and that he chose them. I just dont think he actually "developed" them, most of the development work for the majority of them took place before he started.
Does it really matter mate? The bottom line is we are pretty fecked either way.
This thread has gone through multiple emotions like anger, disappointment, denial and finally seems to be verging on acceptance for the next LvG season here.
I'm not accepting something that isn't going to happen, LVG isn't going to be our manger next season.
I agree with a fair bit of this. LVG has one year left on the contract but the point is what for?
It is not like it is a young Alex Ferguson rebuilding the whole infrastructure. Why persist with LVG for a year when the short term prospects (boring football) and long term prospects (very romantic but highly unlikely for success) seem very pale when faced with a clear alternative ?
I say cut bait and hire a top flite manager.
I think the majority are still confident that Jose will be our next manager.
I mean, not everyone. But I see some. Anyway these rumours will be soon put to rest I suppose. If LvG is going to be fired, it'll happen sooner than later.
Since we got here, obviously LVG will leave after the end of the season. This is his last job, he has a friendly relationship with Mourinho... we are going to get an amiable transition from Louis to Jose.
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