BBC: United hold talks with Mourinho

Would you be happy to see Jose Mourinho become next United manager?

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Yeah haven't we done the whole Pogba and Pique thing to death? We won't know how Jose will do with young players until he gets here, let's just move on.
 
Rado_N said:
Are you seriously suggesting that a Pogba yet to earn a spot in the first team deserved similar leeway to Eric fecking Cantona?

Anomalous treatment from a manager like SAF is earned, not demanded.
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What I'm saying is that talent should rightly override petulance. Fergie should have recognised Pogbas talent and backed himself to harness it. Fergie is undoubtedly the greatest ever and he's been brilliant with a host of stroppy teenagers but something somewhere went very wrong with his handling of Pogba.
 
Revan said:
.

I might agree with most of this. And everything you said for Pique can be said for Lukaku. Just replace Rio's name with Costa.
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You're getting your facts wrongs. Lukaku left for Everton on loan in 2013/14 season(after scoring 17 for WBA in the previous season) when Costa hadn't arrived at Chelsea. Their forwards at that time were Demba Ba, Torres and Eto'o.
 
This debate about Pogba tellingly omits the major problematic factor of his agent, and SAF's attitude regarding the man and his opportunistic kind.

Anyway, the debate is always tedious, and often consists of 'logic' like: "Sure, Fergie won us a lot of stuff...but he let Pogba go, so SAF's legacy is forever tainted! And he let Tevez go too!" That argument has the aroma of those who idolise players above clubs, and football stars even above managers of genius.
 
SteveJ said:
This debate about Pogba tellingly omits the major problematic factor of his agent, and SAF's attitude regarding the man and his opportunistic kind.

Anyway, the debate is always tedious, and often consists of 'logic' like: "Sure, Fergie won us a lot of stuff...but he let Pogba go, so SAF's legacy is forever tainted! And he let Tevez go too!" That argument has the aroma of those who idolise players above clubs, and football stars even above managers of genius.
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At the exception of Balotelli who moved erratically, Raiola's players are incredibly stable. Ibrahimovic moved a lot but there is always a very good reason.
 
TheRedDevil'sAdvocate said:
I have my concerns about Mourinho being the next United manager too but there's been one hell of revisionism by some posters in the last few pages. I can fully understand why some people would prefer a manager who would respect the club's traditions and try to teach expansive football that would be pleasing to the eye no matter the result after the 90 minutes. But in Mourinho's case i guess it's how the saying goes, "it's better to lose an eye than to lose your reputation".

Some forget that Chelsea, as a football club, were shaped by Mourinho. It's true that Abramovic's cash was always flowing but, at the end of the day, it was money well spent. During his first spell there he created a backbone that consisted of Cech, Terry, Essien (first it was Makelele), Lampard and Drogba. All five of them are considered Chelsea legends and all of them owe their entire careers to Mourinho. In fact, that Chelsea side continued to be successful even after Jose was sacked for the first time. These five players led Chelsea to a CL final, to brake a few PL records under Ancelotti and finally win the big one in 2012. Furthermore, Chelsea went on appointing managers and signing players who would help them continue with the brand of football Mourinho implemented.

I also keep hearing about his time at Madrid and the state in which he left the club. First of all, i believe it's ridiculous to judge him for winning La Liga only once when he had to compete with what is considered by many people as the best team in the history of football. He broke Real's record for total points in the league twice and he finished with more than a hundred goals p/s thrice. People choose to remember only Pepe in the midfield against Barcelona but the truth is that he developed a few players there too. For example, Ramos became a world class CB under Mourinho and Di Maria flourished in the midfield (kind of) free role that allowed Ronaldo to play more ofetn inside the box. And he left the team in such a bad state that they went on to win the CL in the following season.

As for Inter, they became the architects of their own demise the moment they appointed Rafa Benitez to continue Mourinho's work. I also believe that Mourinho receives very little credit for what he achieved there. They were considered a team of absolute losers and Mourinho changed their whole personality as a club, he transformed them into winners. Go ask Moyes, LvG or even Wenger if that's an easy task. He also showed tactical flexibility there (used the diamond, the 4-2-3-1 and the more flat 4-4-1-1), he was one of the last managers that gave a pivotal role to a classic #10 (Snejder) and had some other briliant ideas too, like Zanetti in the midfield.

Nowadays, a "short term fix" is more or less determined by the actions of the board since there aren't many managers out there willing to spend a decade or more under the same roof. Bayern Munich reached the top of the world under Heynckes. Afterwards, they decided to change direction and the appointed the best man for the job in Pep. Now, they're about to bring in Ancelotti, who is known for taking the best out the squad you give him, to manage this amalgam of traditional German and Spanish possession football that Pep is going to leave behind. That's longevity for you, right there.

The biggest concern about Mourinho at the moment is that he's still trying to find the right balance between his philosophy and the changes in the modern game since the dominance of expansive possession football. Mourinho rose to fame as the best manager in the world when football was quite different. Back then defending with ten men behind the ball, leaving possession to the opponent and try to hit on the counter was the norm for most successful clubs world wide. Ferguson made it to two consecutive CL finals and Wenger had his best season in Europe when they changed their approach. Ancelotti's brilliant tactical decision to play Pirlo in front of the back four worked because of that too.

But ever since Pep's Barcelona football has changed again and it's heading towards a different decision. Catenaccio is long dead (at least for the near future) and Mourinho already knows that. During the last few seasons he's toned it down a bit: mostly one DM on the pitch, the lines a bit higher, attempts to press in the midfield and other little details which show that he's trying to find a working solution. Not in big games, where he still feels that his old tricks will do the job, but in the majority of the other games. And the fact that he fecked it up big time at Chelsea is indeed a big concern since he's going to inherit a rather problematic squad at United. But let's just not try to rewrite history.
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This is a very good post who puts lots of earlier negative arguments about Mou in to perspective.

I also have my concerns but when taking everything into consideration he's the best candidate available.
 
Grylte said:
Probably not, too high risk players.
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He kept Pandev and Di Maria. Lucio and Maicon were important players for him.

Edit: I forgot Khedira who is always trying passes that he can't make.
 
Nani might've made the cut, simply by virtue of being Portuguese like Mourinho. He might've liked Rafael's passion & utter determination, regardless of his disciplinary problems.
 
SteveJ said:
Nani might've made the cut, simply by virtue of being Portuguese like Mourinho. He might've liked Rafael's passion & utter determination, regardless of his disciplinary problems.
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Exactly and Nani registered +50 assists in something like 4 years, he was comparable to Di Maria.
 
JPRouve said:
He kept Pandev and Di Maria. Lucio and Maicon were important players for him.

Edit: I forgot Khedira who is always trying passes that he can't make.
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Maybe so, but Nani is horrible ;)
 
SteveJ said:
This debate about Pogba tellingly omits the major problematic factor of his agent, and SAF's attitude regarding the man and his opportunistic kind.

Anyway, the debate is always tedious, and often consists of 'logic' like: "Sure, Fergie won us a lot of stuff...but he let Pogba go, so SAF's legacy is forever tainted! And he let Tevez go too!" That argument has the aroma of those who idolise players above clubs, and football stars even above managers of genius.
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Not really. It just means that Fergie got it wrong (with serious consequences) in that particular case.

Obviously, knowing the number of years Fergie spent it here, he was going to make some (big) decisions wrong, but that is something that we have to deal with. Fortunately for us, most of his decisions were right.
 
TheRedDevil'sAdvocate said:
I have my concerns about Mourinho being the next United manager too but there's been one hell of revisionism by some posters in the last few pages. I can fully understand why some people would prefer a manager who would respect the club's traditions and try to teach expansive football that would be pleasing to the eye no matter the result after the 90 minutes. But in Mourinho's case i guess it's how the saying goes, "it's better to lose an eye than to lose your reputation".

Some forget that Chelsea, as a football club, were shaped by Mourinho. It's true that Abramovic's cash was always flowing but, at the end of the day, it was money well spent. During his first spell there he created a backbone that consisted of Cech, Terry, Essien (first it was Makelele), Lampard and Drogba. All five of them are considered Chelsea legends and all of them owe their entire careers to Mourinho. In fact, that Chelsea side continued to be successful even after Jose was sacked for the first time. These five players led Chelsea to a CL final, to brake a few PL records under Ancelotti and finally win the big one in 2012. Furthermore, Chelsea went on appointing managers and signing players who would help them continue with the brand of football Mourinho implemented.

I also keep hearing about his time at Madrid and the state in which he left the club. First of all, i believe it's ridiculous to judge him for winning La Liga only once when he had to compete with what is considered by many people as the best team in the history of football. He broke Real's record for total points in the league twice and he finished with more than a hundred goals p/s thrice. People choose to remember only Pepe in the midfield against Barcelona but the truth is that he developed a few players there too. For example, Ramos became a world class CB under Mourinho and Di Maria flourished in the midfield (kind of) free role that allowed Ronaldo to play more ofetn inside the box. And he left the team in such a bad state that they went on to win the CL in the following season.

As for Inter, they became the architects of their own demise the moment they appointed Rafa Benitez to continue Mourinho's work. I also believe that Mourinho receives very little credit for what he achieved there. They were considered a team of absolute losers and Mourinho changed their whole personality as a club, he transformed them into winners. Go ask Moyes, LvG or even Wenger if that's an easy task. He also showed tactical flexibility there (used the diamond, the 4-2-3-1 and the more flat 4-4-1-1), he was one of the last managers that gave a pivotal role to a classic #10 (Snejder) and had some other briliant ideas too, like Zanetti in the midfield.

Nowadays, a "short term fix" is more or less determined by the actions of the board since there aren't many managers out there willing to spend a decade or more under the same roof. Bayern Munich reached the top of the world under Heynckes. Afterwards, they decided to change direction and the appointed the best man for the job in Pep. Now, they're about to bring in Ancelotti, who is known for taking the best out the squad you give him, to manage this amalgam of traditional German and Spanish possession football that Pep is going to leave behind. That's longevity for you, right there.

The biggest concern about Mourinho at the moment is that he's still trying to find the right balance between his philosophy and the changes in the modern game since the dominance of expansive possession football. Mourinho rose to fame as the best manager in the world when football was quite different. Back then defending with ten men behind the ball, leaving possession to the opponent and try to hit on the counter was the norm for most successful clubs world wide. Ferguson made it to two consecutive CL finals and Wenger had his best season in Europe when they changed their approach. Ancelotti's brilliant tactical decision to play Pirlo in front of the back four worked because of that too.

But ever since Pep's Barcelona football has changed again and it's heading towards a different decision. Catenaccio is long dead (at least for the near future) and Mourinho already knows that. During the last few seasons he's toned it down a bit: mostly one DM on the pitch, the lines a bit higher, attempts to press in the midfield and other little details which show that he's trying to find a working solution. Not in big games, where he still feels that his old tricks will do the job, but in the majority of the other games. And the fact that he fecked it up big time at Chelsea is indeed a big concern since he's going to inherit a rather problematic squad at United. But let's just not try to rewrite history.
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Brilliant post.
 
dogwithabone said:
OK, take the Cantona situation when he was banned. Let's be honest he should have been booted out by the club, his actions were defenceless but that WAS a clear case of a footballers talent dictating to Fergie what happens next. No question about it. To say Fergie was never dictated to or capable of being dictated to is absolute nonsense.

Just like Cantona, Pogbas obvious talent should have over ridden any show of petulance from the player. Remember too that Pogba was a kid and kids can and do display immaturity. Cantona was an experienced professional, what was his excuse ?
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I know you might not like that I think Fergie was right to get rid of a kid who wanted to dictate the terms to of his deal, but you're producing odd, completely unrelated situations to try and, well, I don't know what it is.

I think Fergie was right. You disagree. Leave it at that.
 
Rado_N said:
Are you seriously suggesting that a Pogba yet to earn a spot in the first team deserved similar leeway to Eric fecking Cantona?

Anomalous treatment from a manager like SAF is earned, not demanded.
Click to expand...

Exactly. Thanks for making a point I was too tired to make (working nights).
 
KM said:
You're getting your facts wrongs. Lukaku left for Everton on loan in 2013/14 season(after scoring 17 for WBA in the previous season) when Costa hadn't arrived at Chelsea. Their forwards at that time were Demba Ba, Torres and Eto'o.
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Just checked there and you seem to be wrong.

Costa confirmed as a Chelsea player on July 15th and Lukaku sold to Everton on July 31st.
 
ManUchosenbosslvg said:
Just checked there and you seem to be wrong.

Costa confirmed as a Chelsea player on July 15th and Lukaku sold to Everton on July 31st.
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You seem to be wrong Lukaku joined Everton on loan, the second day of september 2013.
 
Revan said:
No, they aren't. Not even close.

And well, there are other top players that Fergie let them leave like Pique and Rossi.
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More overrating of the fraud that is Pogba.

Rossi was decent but our forward line was full of talent and he was rarely going to play. Got a good fee for him, and honestly, it was no great loss. And Pique had one of the best partnerships in our history in front of him, and his hometown club came calling. Again, makes perfect sense.
 
Judas said:
The Pogba talk is so pointless at this point, if he'd never have left us, by now he already would have gone to Real or Barca anyway.
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He has been at Juventus for 4 seasons now and Morotta recently told the press Pogba wants to stay.

Looking at it now, everything Pogba has done seems to be justified from a professional pov.
 
Could we drop the Pogba talk, or move it to a thread about him?
I want to read news about Mourinho.
 
I think the Mourinho pros and cons have been done to absolute death now.

Really is just a case of trying to enjoy the last 8/9 games of the season, hope for the best of top 4 and the FA cup, and then it'll all happen in due course I'd imagine.
Look forward to any signings being well thought out and done early, rather than seeing the manager not even starting until after a summer tournament!
 
dogrob said:
I still don´t understand why people are so sure that this is going to happen don´t get me wrong I hope it does but as far as I am concerned until its signed and sealed then we will still have Van Gaal and Giggs next season.
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Good god man, we need hope! Stop this kind of talk!
 
At this point I can't imagine how anyone could picture LVG still being in charge next season, it's got to that point for me, and I think most people on here.
 
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