so is LvG to a much bigger degree. But Mourinho actually gets the job done. Unlike our deluded boss.
BBC: United hold talks with Mourinho
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so is LvG to a much bigger degree. But Mourinho actually gets the job done. Unlike our deluded boss.
If he fails, or even if he's a success, he'll leave at some point and the club will be empty again, so we'll look for another manager even if he's the opposite profile. This is what Real Madrid does, and with our businessmen ruling the club we are in the same bunch with them. Perez appoints Pellegrini, and the next year he signs Mourinho. After this he appoints Ancelotti, and then Benitez. Now, in the middle of the season he gives the role to Zidane who wants to play a more positive and open football again, as Ancelotti was doing before he was sacked.
When we talk about the 'long term' concept, I think some people thinks about sticking with a manager for 15 years, and this is not the key of it. The long term factor has to be in the club direction, and even if all your managers remain for just for two years, for any reason, at least show some consistency and look for a common factor between them, so you don't go from black to white every 5 minutes.
That's why I think the power has to be in the club, not in the manager. Managers come and go, and sometimes you don't have options. But if you look at Barca even with Tito, Martino, Luis Enrique (who did nothing remarkable before) they are always in the fight for everything. Every manager who goes there doesn't have to start from zero, they are driving a flying rocket since the first minute. They serve the club interests and reinforce they values and convictions, and this is what gives them stability.
That said, I can understand some worries in the board about the club's failure in the last years. The money from sponsors is in danger if we don't make top-4 this season and the next one. We have problems to attract top players even if we offer them all the money in the world, so I'd said we're also losing attractiveness.
From that point I could accept a bit more of urgency now, and appoint Mourinho to make us recover some normality after the mess we've been recently. And from that position we'll be able to build something for the future. But honestly, I don't think the current board will know what to do at that point, so I think we'll look for the flavour of moment to solve all our problems with his sole presence, like we are doing now.
He still won the title with Chelsea though which Arsenal has failed to do in so many years. Impressive since that he took them over when the scraped 4th place with Benitez.
These are the 6 seasons
2009-2010 - Serie A, Italian cup, CL
2010-2011 - Coppa del rey
2011-2012 - La Liga, Spanish super cup
2013-2014 -
2014-2015 - EPL Title, League cup
2015-2016
I bet he would have won more if he lead the easy catches (Bayern-Barcelona) or the top horse in a one horse league (Juventus, PSG, Celtic).
If you remove the treble season, were Mou won the CL with the Spurs version of European football (Pep would never manage that sort of clubs, its too much of a challenge for him) then its still a respectable 2 league titles in 5 years especially since he was leading 2 of the most difficult clubs to manage in the world. I wonder what Pocahontas, LVG, Wenger, Giggs, and the pundit had won in the past 5 years or do those rules apply only for Mou
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You forgot a year, 2012-2013 and once again my problem is with the narrative that he will make us successful because I only think that he can do it not that he necessarily wil.
I don't have any problem with Mourinho the manager and I rate him.
I repeat what I always say. NO ONE CAN GUARANTEE SUCCESS. Even if SAF had to return back to football then there's no guarantee he will win especially considering the massive task he has ahead. I have my reservations about Mou and wrote about them in numerous occasions. However criticizing his record is stupid. Very few managers can equal his record, as long, of course, they decided to take the easy jobs (like managing Barcelona or Bayern)
One thing is for sure. Real, Inter, Chelsea and now United. The man has balls
When I said he won 2 leagues in 6 years, I didn't want to focus in this sole fact, like it's an horrible failure or he becomes discredited for the job. When I said that, I wanted to remark how much their teams fall after achieving. I invite you to read that part of my message again, and you'll see what my point was. And if we go back to his spell at Inter like you wanted, I'm sure that a third season there would have been a disappointment, one more time.
I think he was lucky and smart enough to leave at the right moment, before that group of players stopped tolerating his demands. I won't criticize him for that, because after winning a treble with Inter (who was more than 30 years without a CL trophy, if I'm not wrong) he could spend his third year sleeping on the bench and reading magazines, if it depended on me. But my point was that I prefer more stability and permanent development, even if it's slow, while Mourinho offers explosiveness and ups and downs.
You start saying "well, Mourinho is not perfect" like I'm ripping him or anything. I'm saying he's an excellent manager in the short term, and he makes his teams achieve even above his expectations. There's no need to be defensive about him, when I'm the first to admit his powers. The only thing I'm saying is that his style of management, his methods and the consequences it provokes, doesn't look interesting to me, and I'd take a different way if it's possible. In any case my main problem is not Mourinho, but the lack of a solid football structure at our club.
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And we agreed on that, I did not criticized his record but the narrative that he will make us successful.
Mou left Real/Chelsea/Inter for reasons that most managers wouldn't accept. Take Chelsea as an example. By the time Mou left, Roman was messing into areas he shouldn't mess in by dictating which players Chelsea should buy . That's something not even SAF would have accepted. At Inter he left because Moratti ran out of money and wanted to sell the club. At Real, well, I don't know why he left however considering the Real's trademark, I wont be surprised that he had a good reason to leave. You're also underestimating the people who replaced him. Out of the Chelsea list I can only see 1 manager whose at par with Mou (ie Ancelotti) and the latter won the league only to be shown the door just a year later. The rest were a bunch of losers (Rafa, Villas Boas, Scolari) with the occasional fluke man (Di Matteo) and decent interim manager. Same thing can be said at Inter (the best of the lot was frigging Rafa) and Real (once again there was just 1 top manager after Mou ie Ancelotti whom, once again was sacked 1 season after he won the CL). These are seriously fecked up clubs. Clubs who regularly sack people whom, few months after, won league titles or CLs. How can anyone blame the manager because of them?
Its so easy to win titles with proper run football giants who are filled with stars (Bayern, Real and at a lesser extent Juventus) but things get tough when doing it with clubs who are badly lead. Now the million dollar question is this. What do we need? Do we need a manager who has only experience with the Bayerns and Barcelonas of football? Do we need the flavour of the month but who had never won anything in his career? Or do we need someone whom, time and time again had shown that he can do well in horribly lead clubs?
Finally would you kindly tell us which state had SAF, Clough or Busby left their respective clubs? Where they able to bring in more success after these great managers left
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My thoughts exactly, although I don't see any managers lasting as long as Busby, Ferguson and Wenger have at one club any more.
He's wanted to settle in England long term for years now, he hasn't even tried to hide that fact. He was in it for the long haul at Cheslea before it all went wrong.
Wow are you just pulling these ideas that Jose plays boring football every game out of your arse? You've actually never ever seen his teams play judging by your posts. Yes Jose sets up the bus in big games when needed but his teams usually wreck the underdogs quite efficiently.
Nothing we can't afford to lose. If they want to go support Liverpool, Arsenal, Leicester or any team that plays better football than us then they're welcome to.
I think LVG should have gone long ago too but I won't stop supporting the club.
When you look at the likes of Alli, Kane, Vardy, Drinkwater, Lukaku etc think all managers now are going to be a bit more cautious in whom they discard and who they might ignore. In the past 18 months too many gems gave surfaced and maybe made a few managers look like mugs, including Mourinho.
It's not new, it happens all the time.
Don't forget about De Bruyne too, even selling Bertrand has been a mistake by Mourinho.
This.
I am praying Mourinho could possibly end the Pogba nightmare and bring him back...
Wishful thinking
I liked his team at Chelsea with Robben and Duff. I can't remember a single fecking youngster coming through though
Pogba apparently attempted to dictate to Ferguson. Think Fergie was right. It happens. Atkinson binned Peter Beardsley even with Jimmy Murphy championing him.
Yep. The most successful football club (that would be Real Madrid) is a proof of that.
The most successful club in the last 10 years (that would be Barca) has had 5 managers in the last 10 years.
You might prefer stability and the same manager, but success isn't built on a long-term manager. Clubs that have won far more than United haven't ever had a manager who stays there forever.
You dont believe it because United havent done so in the recent past. We havent had a reason to. We are not accustomed to any other way. Doesnt mean its the only way to do things.
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Plus look at all the recent success Arsenal have had in sticking with the same manager no matter what.
This is the thing, we did it in the 1970s. What we are going through now is an interesting parallel with that post-Busby shambles.
If our success was built on playing homegrowns, long term, togetherness and all that shit why did it all go to shit after Ferguson left? Isn't the main idea of 'long term' that brought us the success actually lasting, you know, for a long time?
They've never really bothered with any, only recently has their youth started to really create any decent players. I expect solanke, ake and of course lothtus-cheek to be in the first team squad next year.
the problem with Jose is being with such short spells in clubs he's had to put his stamp on the team first, but after that he's left clubs rather than allowing youth to progress. Arguably though he shouldn't have to leave us, he will get everything he wants. If our youth is good enough they will get to play, they've just got to impress him.
Well, the academy didn't produced any notable players, you can't really blame him for that, he did gave games to Huth, Carlton Cole, Lassana Diarra, Mancienne, Glenn Jonhson, Scott Sinclair.
It's a mix of players who had their debuts a season or two before his arrival, players that he promoted and very young signings.
Define "coming through" though? I mean, if there are no players to pick and bring through is it really Mourinho's fault? That is one part of the argument but it depends really what you mean "bring through" as he (edit: didn't sign) signed Robben (20), Cech (21), (edit: but signed) Tiago Mendes (22), Nuno Morias (20) in his first season where he won the league and was a total fluker of a loss away from doing an invincibles season in his first year.
It depends what you mean "bring through" as Robben and Cech became key fixtures for the club in their time, although Cech was a more permanent long term fixture.
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Mourinhos desicions arent too far off LVGs as they both aim to buy good young 20 somethings who have the potential to the world class. LVG has only used the youth this season down to neccesity not preference. Its his own doing by trimming the squad so much.
Robbed had a reputation and still didn't become a key fixture; possibly down to injuries.
Also I shall define coming through; where players need assistance in to becoming a regular fixture. Robben and Cech especially after the euros did not need that.
He has been using youth since last season? Are you that deluded?
You think Fergie was right ? Pogba's elevation to a player of works class status since he was discarded would suggest to me that Fergie got this very wrong.
I would hotly contest the notion that Pogba is world class. Potentially world class yes, but currently he's the most overrated player since Nii Lamptey.
Can't wait for someone to pay 100m for him. He'll twat in the odd ridiculous screamer, and put in consistently decent performances. But until he starts absolutely bossing games, he isn't world class. IMNVHO (In my not very humble opinion).
I think a huge advantage in appointing Mourinho is that he will have had 6 months of scouting players personally and a proper amount of time to assess everything. Van Gaal had no time following the WC and our recruitment was chaotic. I'd like to think that Mourinho will have identified everything from the latest Dele Alli in the championship to which global superstar can best shape the new United.
Clearly you didn't see Duff and Robben tearing the Premier League to shreds in the squad he built
A kid, no matter how talented, dictate the terms of his playing to the manager of Manchester United? Absolutely.
Bit disingenuous to cite Barcelona mate. It may well have been only 3 in 10 years had Tito stayed healthy.
Since when ? Best virtually dictated to Sir Matt when he was going to play and when he'd rather stay holed up in a hotel room.
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