I think Ronaldo and Bale would tear them to pieces.
Bayern Munich
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If anyone remembers my comments about Bayern in recent months, it seems similar to some I have now read on this page. Fantastic team, but by no means wwithout flaw. I said before the draw that given we'll likely be parking the bus regardless, I'd much rather park it against Bayern than Barcelona, Real or Paris. They will control possession, but the penetrative players are something I think we can deal with if we defend well. I also think their defence can be got at.
It's not as if Madrid's defenders are worldbeaters though. Both teams somewhat lack defensive stability, yet Bayern have conceded far less goals this season.
The last encounter is only 2 years old and Ronaldo failed to show up.
Doesn't change my opinion, if Welbeck was causing them hassle Ronaldo and Bale would destroy that back line.
They're much more solid than Barcelona in defence and Ronaldo is usually dealt with pretty reasonably by Barcelona while Bale has barely touched the ball against them.
If you don't let them have the ball and you constantly cut off supply like Guardiola sides do then you don't have to worry about Ronaldo. Guardiola has a phenomenal record vs Real, as do Bayern Munich.
There's a great chance Ronaldo would barely see the ball and spend of the game moaning at his teammates whilst Bale looked like a fan who'd won a competition like he's done against Barcelona.
Not to mention Real would never park the bus in a million years so Bayern are going to get a lot of joy out of Marcelona/Pepe/Ramos/Carvajal, especially with Alonso/Modric/Di Maria being a very porous midfield defensively.
The way they seemed content to just pop it about with no intensity was really strange IMO. Pep should have had them playing with a lot more intensity and tempo IMO. I didn't think we'd be able to nullify them so easily so as to render them out of ideas, almost.
It wasn't even a case of loads of last ditch tackles and all that we used to see teams do against Barca. Bayern just didn't offer a hell of a lot other than great keep ball.
It wasn't even a case of loads of last ditch tackles and all that we used to see teams do against Barca. Bayern just didn't offer a hell of a lot other than great keep ball.
Reals match-plan is usually quite different to what we have seen yesterday. Usually they dont use long balls to initiate their counterattacks, so its far easier for our midfield to intercept or at least slow them down. Ronaldo as target-man, like Welbeck yesterday, is no threat at all. In that regard he has the same strength/weakness as Müller. He needs another forward that he can play around. Real is also playing more offensive, which opens space for Robben/Ribery/Müller. They dont sit back as disciplined as Manchester did for almost the whole match.
Furthermore I think that our defense has less problems when we actually put pressure on our opponents. We just couldnt do that yesterday for most of the time. I dont expect Müller to start another game as forward in this CL-campaign. Starting with Mandzukic or Götze will put way more pressure on your defense, which forces welbeck/Rooney/Felaini to track back further, which helps our defense.
You have to give credits to Moyes. His tactics were incredible puristic, but efficient. I sometimes wonder why other teams usually dont play like that. It seems to be a good strategy in these games.
And Bale seems to go into hiding against the big teams.
Ronaldo failed to deliver against Bayern last time around, but he's a better player now (in my opinion) and will have some joy against them if Dante is out and they have someone like Rafinha playing (the back line they played against us, basically). It's entirely possible he will be starved of the ball, though. Bayern are very good at that.
Bale, on the other hand, needs a lot of space to operate. I really rate him, but he was beyond invisible against Barça because of the tightness of that game - Bayern's pressing is much more extreme. He'll have no time or space on the ball, at all. Their full-backs are not very slow, either, so he'll have to resort to more than kick & run. Who knows, he may have a stormer, but I think Bayern of all teams are best suited to dealing with Ronaldo and Bale (especially the latter), whether they do it to a sufficient extent or not. So far for Real, Bale has only excelled against the cannon fodder sides of La Liga, & a terrible Schalke side that didn't even look like UEFA Cup quality.
Who knows, though. Should Bayern beat us, I'd love to see Bayern vs Real again. Both teams are very different now, and it would certainly be an interesting match-up.
Bale, on the other hand, needs a lot of space to operate. I really rate him, but he was beyond invisible against Barça because of the tightness of that game - Bayern's pressing is much more extreme. He'll have no time or space on the ball, at all. Their full-backs are not very slow, either, so he'll have to resort to more than kick & run. Who knows, he may have a stormer, but I think Bayern of all teams are best suited to dealing with Ronaldo and Bale (especially the latter), whether they do it to a sufficient extent or not. So far for Real, Bale has only excelled against the cannon fodder sides of La Liga, & a terrible Schalke side that didn't even look like UEFA Cup quality.
Who knows, though. Should Bayern beat us, I'd love to see Bayern vs Real again. Both teams are very different now, and it would certainly be an interesting match-up.
The easiest way to give Bayern trouble is, as this week has shown, to park the bus and play it fast forward after a ball win. real won't do that, they will fight for superiority in the midfield. heynckes just gave posession to Barcelona last season and was successful with it, but Pep most likely won't do that.
It would be a fascinating encounter no doubt, Bayerns counter pressing and passing game against Madrids power on the wings.
That's true - our deep defending helped us infinitely at Old Trafford. They've probably not lost enough games this season to actually develop a trend to see which method is better, but it's something.
What a side. I think Real will fight for superiority in the midfield, as you said, but not completely - just a lot more than we did (25% possession says a lot). I imagine they can hit Bayern hard on the break, especially if Rafinha plays - Real are very strong down the sides, & they'll try and play to their strengths as they aren't going to be underdogs like us. Agreed on the whole, though. The two best sides in the world (arguably, in Madrid's case) going head to head with polar opposite styles. I'd really like to see a rematch this season, should we not go through.
Amazing that Ronaldo is adjudged to have not turned up against Bayern when he scored twice against them.
Have you seen the game? Apart from the goals, one of them a penalty, he did naught.
Watch how many good scenes this guy, who called his video amusingly enough "Ronaldo destroying Bayern", could find:
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We went through this whole "see, I told you Bayern weren't actually that good, it's just that silly German hype and they're overrated just because they play in a weak league" last season after the Arsenal game. Then they destroyed Barca in what was probably the most convincing semi final win in CL history. I'm genuinely a bit surprised that the same thing's happening again here.
It's bizarre. United at their home ground had to defend with 8-9 people and use long ball tactic most of the time. Even then Bayern came out with 1-1 draw which is most definitely a better result for the away side. But some people are pretending as if United outplayed them or something.
It's probably due to expectations, as most of us were genuinely expecting to get spanked by them.
He scored 2 goals. What mo... Never mind, one can see where this conversation would go
Still, scoring one good goal and a penalty cannot be described as a bad performance. It's not as if Bayern did much more than scoring a solitary penalty in the second semi as well.
To me, they are like that barca team but with the ability to implement directness and power in their game. We played a defensively weak Bayern side. If they are going to persist with Lahm in the DM position, Rafinha is the only weak spot in their actual starting xi. Playing against Boateng-Dante or Badstuber-Boateng, for example, is a much different case than attacking a defense of Dante and a converted midfielder. Danny did very well but its not as if he was tearing them apart. He failed to even score, but did hassle them quite a bit.
With that being said, I think this Bayern team will turn out better than that Barcelona team of 09-11. Same manager as that team, but they are superior in a few ways. Neuer being one, the actual starting defense being another, and the depth that they have in midfield and on the flanks. They have, IMO, the best defensive player in the world in Lahm, they best young talent in Gotze, and one of the 4-5 best players in the world in Ribery. With a supporting cast that boasts Schweinsteiger, Thiago, Kroos, Robben, Shaqiri, Muller, Alaba - that is the best team in the world currently and it will continue to be that way for the foreseeable future. They are mostly young players.
With that being said, I think this Bayern team will turn out better than that Barcelona team of 09-11. Same manager as that team, but they are superior in a few ways. Neuer being one, the actual starting defense being another, and the depth that they have in midfield and on the flanks. They have, IMO, the best defensive player in the world in Lahm, they best young talent in Gotze, and one of the 4-5 best players in the world in Ribery. With a supporting cast that boasts Schweinsteiger, Thiago, Kroos, Robben, Shaqiri, Muller, Alaba - that is the best team in the world currently and it will continue to be that way for the foreseeable future. They are mostly young players.
Lost their league game today. 1st time in a long while. They are struggling.
No better time to knock them out of the CL as far as I'm concerned. They're in bit of a rut.
They rested everyone who will play against us except Neuer and Kroos. They should still be strong enough to win today, but they won't care too much if they beat us. Make no mistake, they will be fresh and highly motivated against us on Wednesday.
The momentum is definitely with us, if Moyes can get his team right we have a great chance.
Interesting choice of words there....
Thiago, Martinez and Schweinsteger are monumental losses for them. Absolutely huge.
Their midfield is their star attraction; their defence, as we saw last week, is susceptible to lapses in concentration and Mandzukic doesn't scare me as a centre-forward.
It'll be a huge ask, but we stand a chance, however little it may be.
Their midfield is their star attraction; their defence, as we saw last week, is susceptible to lapses in concentration and Mandzukic doesn't scare me as a centre-forward.
It'll be a huge ask, but we stand a chance, however little it may be.
Thats a bit simple, init. I've actually seen great games from players who didn't score at all
. Watch the games again and then tell me it was good performance.Well by their standards they're. Haven't won in the last three matches if I'm not wrong.
Its just that their standards are much, much higher than 95% of teams in the world.
Actually I expect exactly that. But more a 4-2-4 with the front four in movement.
Without Schweinsteiger who can play a second man in the box there is actually 2 possible solutions. Mandzukic's strengths are headers - just, that that usually does not work against oponents like Arsenal or Manchester if somebody is alone in the box. So there is the possibility to play with Mandzukic and Müller - or Götze and Müller and try to play Tuesday's idea in a better version. The problem of last Tuesday was not the persons but the way they played. When you looked at the Arsenal match Guardiola was too cautious with his changes - he first subbed striker for striker - and only late in the match striker for central midfielder. The last goal was the result.
Mandzukic played 90 minutes today - Götze and Müller only played 45 minutes and 27 minutes. They might have even played less but Shaqiri ruptured his muscle and is probably out for the rest of the season (they just called it a big rupture in his thigh muscle and they did not tell how long it will take - hopefully it will be fast enough for him to play the World Cup)
A 0:0 means Bayern is through. So United has to do something. So I expect Bayern to play carefully - the longer the match goes without Manchester United scoring the more chances Bayern will get.
They've stopped giving a feck. I hope the complacency continues on Wednesday.
No. But Guardiola needs his players Wednesday. And there is injury problems. Shaqiri might not be the first option - but he is always good as an additional option in matches.
The match on Wednesday usually would really call for a 4-2-3-1 old style. Martinez or Gustavo in defensive midfield - a real central midfielder in Schweinsteiger - and Müller behind the striker. Instead it for sure is Kroos and Lahm. The only defender on the bench is van Buyten. There is only an 18-year-old Höjbjerg on the bench for Kroos or Lahm and 2 18-year-olds on the bench for the full back position...
Four out of Robben, Ribery, Müller, Götze and Mandzukic will play - leaving only one of them + Pizarro on the bench. And as Starke is out injured and the third keeper, too - the only a 19-year-old goalkeeper in Leopold Zingerle left - without any experiences...
Guardiola just could not risk new injuries.
The bench on Wednesday right now will sound Zingerle, van Buyten, Höjbjerg, Pizarro, one of Mandzukic/Götze/Müller, Sallahi, Weiser
Not very well known...
The match on Wednesday usually would really call for a 4-2-3-1 old style. Martinez or Gustavo in defensive midfield - a real central midfielder in Schweinsteiger - and Müller behind the striker. Instead it for sure is Kroos and Lahm. The only defender on the bench is van Buyten. There is only an 18-year-old Höjbjerg on the bench for Kroos or Lahm and 2 18-year-olds on the bench for the full back position...
Four out of Robben, Ribery, Müller, Götze and Mandzukic will play - leaving only one of them + Pizarro on the bench. And as Starke is out injured and the third keeper, too - the only a 19-year-old goalkeeper in Leopold Zingerle left - without any experiences...
Guardiola just could not risk new injuries.
The bench on Wednesday right now will sound Zingerle, van Buyten, Höjbjerg, Pizarro, one of Mandzukic/Götze/Müller, Sallahi, Weiser
Not very well known...
Balu has been strangely quiet... I bet he is monitoring the sudden optimism here, grinding his teeth and waiting to pounce wednesday night when they've won 5-0.
I'm actually enjoying the sudden optimism here. The depressing doom and gloom attitude on the Caf ahead of the first leg was fecking annoying
. Highly doubt we beat you guys 5-0, a 2-1 win would be sweet, but I'm equally happy if we sneak through on away goals with a boring 0-0 draw.I found it amusing that Balu or myself were more optimistic towards Uniteds chances in that tie than most of the United supporters in here
It was ridiculous. I once mentioned that I'd be really happy if we win 2-0 on aggregate within all the 5-0 to 10-0 predicitions and no one believed meI found it amusing that Balu or myself were more optimistic towards Uniteds chances in that tie than most of the United supporters in here
. Though, we learned a tough lesson against Chelsea 2 years ago, that's not forgotten yet. Never underestimate a struggling English team with a questionable manager.That's the worst part for United. The park the bus tactic won't work for this very reason. Pep will have Bayern do a defensive tik tika to force United to come out and attack in second half.
It was ridiculous. I once mentioned that I'd be really happy if we win 2-0 on aggregate within all the 5-0 to 10-0 predicitions and no one believed me
Ouch
I can't see them lose two games in a row. Even with their suspensions and injuries in the middle, they have a strong enough team to finish the job. I expect a draw or a 2-0 win for Bayern.
It was ridiculous. I once mentioned that I'd be really happy if we win 2-0 on aggregate within all the 5-0 to 10-0 predicitions and no one believed me
Are you and other fans worried about this game or do you think it will be a formality? I was speaking to Bayern fan after the game at OT and while he was pissed off with the 1-1 draw he didn't seem to think there was any chance of them going out.
2-2 draw it is then!