This is the same club that the media have also reported allowed a departing manager to veto a transfer of a high profile youngster it had been scouting for a while, yet now we are telling another manager not to play another.
Yeah right.
Bastian Schweinsteiger | Exit Speculation
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This is the same club that the media have also reported allowed a departing manager to veto a transfer of a high profile youngster it had been scouting for a while, yet now we are telling another manager not to play another.
Yeah right.
You and me don't agree on anything really but that's a very nice summary of things and the one I absolutely agree on.
It felt like cheating seeing him running around and looking fit for Germany in the Euros when he's been injured and a fat mess during his time here.
Mourinho obviously has seen United a lot last season, and has stated so in his interviews.
The "need" is more of a economical sense, rather than the need to free up the money, United have more than enough money and income to keep Bastian through his contract period.
When it comes to embarrassment, Bastian has done more against himself than the club and Jose has.
Jose if anything has been clear in that Bastian is not in his plans, that is a choice for a manager to make. Bastian isn't a United legend and has done feck all for the club, so he shouldn't get any special treatment, and even then why should he be forced upon the squad? It's illogical and only the stance a fan of the player, rather than the club could take. (which is obvious going by the only people that really feel annoyed at this are fanboys and Bayern supporters).
If Bastian is okay with the situation and does his work to be ready if the team ends up in a injury crisis and is then being used, I'm fine with it. if he moves on to some other club, I'm fine with that too.
If you (bayern fans), the club you support and whoever else have an issue with Mourinho not having Bastian in his plans, you should advocate that your club take him back rather than bemoan the supposed "lack of class" in Mourinho picking his own squad, rather than the rotten apples left by LvG.
Bayern Munchen is trying hard to act as if they are on a moral high-ground, after it's been mentioned many times before that they too act in the same way. (and it's how any club should act; with self interest)
The EPL has only become rich very recently so the typical EPL fan is not used to these sort of players. To make matters better (or worse, it depends on how you see it), we were lead by one of the best managers in football history. He made sure that we do not sign players who saw us simply as their retirement plan.
Those who follow the Serie A like I do can remember fat Ronaldo doing something very similar to what Bastian is doing. He limped in and out of the pitch for an entire season with Inter only to deliver a spectacular WC performance for Brazil during summer. Once he was back he engineered a deal for himself with Real Madrid forcing Moratti's hand to sell.
We need to be very careful not to attract these sort of players.
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As said in the previous post I believe that most fans lack exposure to this sort of crap. SAF was an old fox and he was able to protect the club from players who were only interested in getting their final pay cheque. Prior to him, the EPL wasn't really that rich so these players simply ignored it and moved elsewhere.
Those who follow other clubs have seen this sort of crap firsthand and are therefore less 'naive'.
I find it hard to believe that Jose, who does prefer experienced players, would completely cut BFS off. I.would say one of his duties was to reduce the wage bill to facilitate the new players with Basti being the likeliest candidate.
Well played by Shweini, took us to the cleaners. He should not be allowed to use Carrington facilities. Sit at home and get even fatter, pick up the cheque each week and spend it on schnitzel and stroodle.
First Bastian and now Mou. We seem to be on a mission in crushing everyone to our evil will.
He's taken advice from club officials and veteran playing staff. None of them felt he truly wanted to be at the club, he flew away every chance he could get and didn't turn up to games when injured like other first teamers would.
LVG probably gave him more slack, but Jose obviously didn't like what he heard. Let's be honest he was pretty crap last year too, certainly not up to the 200k a week standard.
If he doesn't want to leave us and go elsewhere that's his decision, I bet we practically let him leave for free.
He's the most expensive list clogger in PL history.
I love that we arent being run on sentimentality anymore.
We are one of the biggest clubs on the planet, with ambitions to become one of the best. Players that are not good enough should be moved on.
Sentimentality shouldn't even be an issue here. This guy had never done anything for us to deserve our sentimentality.
I agree with the rest of the post and I've been saying that since most of my time in here. I still believe that our decline is mostly due to our inability to let go to players who were clearly not good anymore and replace them with players this top club deserves. We claim to be the biggest club in the world. We're finally starting to act like one again.
With all the trash talk from Yaya's agent after Pep was announced, it's kinda understandable, though. Nasri was expected to lose weight in order to retrun to the team.
Yeah, what a parasite, eh? I'm sure you'd be playing for scraps.
Oh yeah, the 32yr old(wtf is this, you retire from NTs at 30 the latest, we all know that) Captain of our national team worked hard to recover from his injury, and got fit during the EUROs. What-a-crime. How awful of him not to use some magic to regain fitness 6 weeks earlier.
Btw, he's retired from NT now.
As usual, nothing but evading the question from your side. So, again why is locker moving and reserve training the right way to go?
What you permanently try to ignore to make your narrative work, is that I'm not questioning the decision of planning without him.
The whole thing is about how matters are being handled, and this is, imo completely unnecessary. And I have no issues with standing by it, despite the general lashing out, and "mind your own fecking business"-moniker.
Your continued efforts to paint Bastain in the worst possible light is telling enough by itself, though. Seems as someone has to convince himself, too...
I'm saying he left our club, because he felt he's achieved everything he could with us. Completely far fetched to even think this view on the matter might still persist...
Personally, I'd love to see him back, because when fit, he's easily better than Alonso, and still class, as evidenced during the EURO. (in before smug generic "then give your CEO a call statement")
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You've said it not me. Seriously if Bastian is willing to take a pay cut then it would show a clear (and honestly only) sign of intent that he doesn't give a feck about the money and he wants to fight for his place. Lets face it, he's not a 150k-200k player anymore. If he thinks he is then he's seriously deluded.
There again no one is forcing him to do so. He's got the right to be paid as per agreed and we've got the right to play him in the reserves. Contracts work both ways
Well I wouldn't say that. I mean its not as if he's some honorary president who refused to collaborate in the biggest scandal in football. That would be a crime. In my opinion its just the case of a player being lucky enough to get his final big paycheck despite his legs are clearly gone. Some may call him a mercenary, other may think he lack class. Id say well done to him for managing to dupe us in signing him for that salary. Although to be fair if I was him, I would have tried a bit harder especially considering that both the club and LVG had placed alot of trust on him. Very few clubs would have offered him such long contract and salary so to fail them the way he did is.....a bit meah.
I am not evading the question at all. Let me put the answer clearly for you
Question - So, again why is locker moving and reserve training the right way to go?
Answer - Well the Daily mail has recently came out with an article about that (please read previous posts). However I have an easier answer for you.
Its because Mourinho said so. Considering that there are very few people around who knows football management as he does and those who do know enough about football to challenge his knowledge has remained quiet (ex SAF) then I guess he's right.
I can't understand why there's so much uproar about him ending in the reserves either. If a player plays like a reserve then what's so shocking if he ends there? Should we treat him differently because he's a legend of some foreign club? He's no legend of ours and considering the way he plays (he literally walks on the pitch) he certainly doesn't deserve better.
There again, no one is stopping you or anyone really to place a bid and sign him up. Surely he prefers playing for Bayern instead of staying with our reserves.
There's only one way to test his resolve ie Bayern should place a bid and tempt him back. As said before I am confident that he'd rather be in your first team squad then playing with our kids. There again, I much doubt that you'll walk the walk. No club who had won so many honours as you did in the past few years would let sentimentality rule over their better judgement. We hasn't done that when Beckham was literally begging to end his career at OT and you won't do that with Bastian. Bayern will use this to try and score cheap points against us but that will be all. Both clubs know that Bastian's legs are gone.
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Naming your suggestion comes free of service
And to show that intent, he *has* to offer a paycut, huh? But I see where you are coming from, since he's not given a chance to show it on the training pitch...
Never getting tired of meaningless Beckenbauer(who has zero say in our club matters for well over a decade now) jabs, eh? But then there's not much of substance you could come by with in the first place. Better to stick with ad hominems, then.
We already covered that. Based on last season, there would have to be 15 others, too.
So, because coach said so, and mind your own fecking business. Fine for the first part. As for the second, folks are allowed to express their own opinions about this type of etiquette.
Pep never said his legs are gone. You make that up, and you know it. He played well against Italy for over 100mins, and had a great first half against France until that brain fart in the box. Can't be that bad with his legs.
As for proving it, he already made clear, that he won't go to another club in Europe. Of course you're free to spin that in your favor, and suggest without anything to back it up, that this is proof of my club not wanting him, despite him wanting to return. Creationist rhetorics.
He will always be better than Fellaini in midfield regardless of what spin anyone wishes to put on it to back up his exclusion by Maureen. One of the best of his generation, when fit at his age, he should be contending week in week out.
This thread has descended to a new low.
Not true. And that's not opinion. That's a fact. The difference in ages means there will definitely be a point where he won't be better than Fellaini in midfield. Mourinho obviously thinks we're at the point now or close enough to it that we might as well call it quits now.
What a hell are we even arguing about here. Basti is using his right to collect his wages, we are using our right to make him train with the reserves. I would trust Mou on this matter. If Basti is unhappy, he will move on, I am sure he will be allowed to leave for peanuts.
Ok at some point but you're talking about the German captain who has done and seen it all in midfield against Fellaini. I'm a fan of Fellaini and have backed him here from the start but the tiger is not finished no more than Evra was when we sold him. He has qualities the big fella just doesn't have for the position. If you think Fellaini is a better midfielder today when both are fit that's just a nuts belief. If your looking to cement a player for the next 3-4 years in there you might have a point. But most on here don't see Fellaini being that guy anyway.....
He doesn't have to do anything really. He can stay in the reserves and pocket his 150k-200k a week salary for the next 2 years. Maybe if he's lucky Mou would turn out one day, he likes what he sees and will call him back. All I am saying is that by taking a wage cut he would be sending a clear sign of intent that money isn't an issue for him and all he wants is to play. Many players had done that at the twilight of their career including Terry and Cole. I assume that we both agree that it would be more effective then simply posting photos during matches.
Correct me if I am wrong but he's still your honorary president. That's so classy and honourable.
Mourinho doesn't seem to think so and he knows his stuff in terms of football. Dont take me wrong, I am the type who like questioning managers all the time. However on this particular issue I have to agree with him on this. Sure many players were dire last season. However they did chased the ball and showed a clear intent that they give a feck about the club. Things like chasing the ball, running, staying at OT to recover rather then go and watch the gf play tennis etc tend to impress these crazy Brits. Go figures.
You're free to express your opinion. In matter of fact I respect you so much that Im bothering answering you back. There again what can I say? Mou had gone to ridiculous lengths to try to accommodate everyone (I was certain that he'll give Carrick, Fellaini and Mata the sack but he didn't and 2 of them are now first teamers), so no one can really blame him of using a scattergun approach to make space for his team. The club cant be blamed to be a miser either considering that they spent 157m this summer on new players despite being out of the CL. Surely they can spare a 7m a year for 2 years to keep Bastian if they believe he's still good enough.
So could it really be the case that Bastian is sent to the reserves because he's not good enough anymore. I mean last season he spent the entire season literally walking on the pitch and that's not very good in a pacey league like the EPL.
Pep said that in the past 3 years he was never in good condition. Last season was his fourth. He might have done well with Germany but he was pretty shit with us and that's what really matters for us. If he plays for Manchester United like a reserve player and with that same attitude then he cant really blame the club if he ends up there.
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Mourinho obviously rates Fellaino. He's one of barely a handful of United players who managed to rack up a few decent performances under the previous manager and he's been one of our top performers since this season began. He's also considerably more likely than BFS to improve from this point onwards. If we were rating players on past performances, we might as well sign Pirlo or Lampard.
Didn't he choose to leave Bayern whilst everyone was calling him to stay? Pep then comes out with that which at the time was a bit of a low blow. He gets injured for us and that has gone a long way to where he finds himself granted. But if Ibra was out for 4 months now and Rashford comes in and does the business all of a sudden he himself is being talked of as a age number and blah blah. I get your points but personally if fit the guy still has a lot to offer amongst the group of our current midfielders.
Were those 2 still captaining their country just months ago? How old were those 2 when it was deemed they were not as good as Fellaini.
Focus on my last sentence and ignore the rest if you wish, that's your perogative. I was using an analogy to expand on the points made in the opening part of my post. Schweinsteiger used to perform at a high level. Fellaini is performing at a high level now. The opening couple of games of the season have endorsed the decision made over the summer. Ditto the decision to never play in another European club. He's obviously enjoying his quasi-retirement and doesn't want to ruin it by getting stuck into all the hard work that comes with playing in a league that's genuinely competitive.
Saying a German captain hasn't the stomach for hard graft based on Maureen's decision to exclude him is a stretch. Fellaini has done well in 3 games this season where we all would expect him to be fine given the opposition and the lack of high press. His elbows have yet to make an appearance for a start. None of this means he's a better midfielder than Bastian. No more than Oscar was better for the role over Mata when the latter was sold. Manager makes decision...doesn't mean in time it plays out that way.
Personally I think whether he's better than Fellaini is immaterial. The fact remains, his performances last season were, by and large, no better than any of the other midfielders we had, none of whom is remotely as heralded as he is, earn what he does or have the ability to do the physical things required by the PL.
He was a great player. All the evidence is that that's no longer the case.
Because Terry and Cole agreed on a big wagecut one year after signing a new contract, sure.
And he was charged guilty of what exactly? Yeah, he most obviously knew stuff concerning the bribery around our home WC '06. But that's about all that can be said. Surely a big enough reason for a club to feed his biggest legend and one of the main reasons for us being where we are to the wolves.
That sounds *really* honorable.
Ever heard of that thing called "Player Performance Forum"? I suggest you go in there, and compare Bastians ratings with those of Fallaini, Herrera, and Carrick.
Come back and tell me what you have seen, and how this correlates with the decision to expel him unseen before the season has even started.
His injury record was known beforehand. His *legs* however have not been put into question. As for being pretty shit, well -> Player Performance Forum.
Lighten the sales bill by any possible means is still the most likely rationale for what's happening mate.
Always makes me chuckle the way that excuse is trotted out any time an unpopular player puts in a decent performance.
Bayern fans...gullible as feck
We're selling him cos he's shit. Been saying it for long time and fully expected Mourinho to get rid which he is. The idea we're selling him because we can't afford him does not even warrant discussion.
We're selling him cos he's shit. Been saying it for long time and fully expected Mourinho to get rid which he is. The idea we're selling him because we can't afford him does not even warrant discussion.
Bayern fans...gullible as feck
We're selling him cos he's shit. Been saying it for long time and fully expected Mourinho to get rid which he is. The idea we're selling him because we can't afford him does not even warrant discussion.
Makes one wonder why you haven't sold your entire midfiled, if that's the criterium...
Am I glad I do not judge Vidal or Martinez for their performances in the first half of their first season at Bayern...
Apart from having been late for the preparation even a player like Schweinsteiger needs time to adapt to a new league, new team, new opponents - especially if the team is in disarray and the dressing room seems to be a nutcase like in your team.
The second part of the season he was injured - with a new injury he had not had before. That he got in a United match.
There's nothing to wonder. The rest are better than him not to mention younger and fitter so they stay. Carrick is older but better and a club legend (Unlike Bastian) so he stays as well.
Bayern fans should save their tears and organize a petition to have him back at Bayern. Maybe the corrupt pricks at your club will notice and take pity.
Key point is Mourinho has decided he is not part of his plans.
I hope he does go to the MLS. I will watch him should he come play at Minnesota United.
I hope he does go to the MLS. I will watch him should he come play at Minnesota United.
At least his pointing was excellent. World class. And that's my only memory of him tbf.
That is because the rest of the midfield has the potential for improvement. As far as Bastian is concerned he is only going to go downhill from here given his injuries. The choice is between a injury prone player on high wages who is only going to deteriorate and players who can improve and are more hungry for success and on considerably low wages.
dont bother mate, most here will defend the club no matter what.....can understand if someone doesnt want him because he is injured a lot or because he went on holiday while he was injured(even though this is entirely LVG fault IMO). I understand why Mourinho doesnt want him, he really doesnt fit into the way we want to play BUT saying he was shit last season and thats the reason why there is no place for him in the team is just plain stupid, no other description. I would say that around 90% of our squad played under their capabilities and played poorly under LVG(something which we see now under Mou and will see even more in the future)......Schweini(he wasnt great, solid at best but even that was enough) was our best midfielder along with Carrick, he proved at Euro against France that he is still quality when played in his best current position/role.
Jose got a better performance out of Herrera and Fellaini in one game than the Dutch idiot got out of them all year last year, also they can actually run. Schweinsteiger can't run, is vastly injury prone and is clearly past it.
Plain and simple it was Carrick or Schweinsteiger, Jose picked the guy that has been with the club for a decade and not the guy who has been with the club one season, which was an injury plagued season where he was on holiday as much as he was with the team.
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I think the most important factor for mous decision was the injury proneness of basti. Its hard to plan with someone who was fit to play 15 games the last season. To ban him from the first team is only consequent as unhappy players shouldnt be around the core team. Its hard on basti but an understandable decision. He gets some 200.000 pounds a week to comfort himself though :-)
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