Pini Zahavi, a name Barca fans will learn to remember.
We know him perfectly, he is a friend of Laporta. It shows, isn't it?
Barcelona: Charged with corruption .... again!
- Thread starter The Boy
- Start date
We know him perfectly, he is a friend of Laporta. It shows, isn't it?
Everything about their transfer activity is shady as feck. The way they are handling players deferred wages is shocking too.
They are in a mess but seem more keen to spend more money than sort out their problems properly.
They are in a mess but seem more keen to spend more money than sort out their problems properly.
Niemans you are having a mare here mate.
I admire the effort but it’s becoming a little farcical now…..
I admire the effort but it’s becoming a little farcical now…..
Since I started in redcafe a year ago, I have always given my opinion in a respectful and assertive way and based on the information I see in the most reliable media.
With some users it is a pleasure to debate, others give arguments without information and others simply mock or disrespect.
I have tried to explain the situation of Barcelona since last year, how the FFP worked and the economic situation of Barcelona.
I have received disrespectful comments in some cases but in the end what I had said has been happening.
I simply give my opinion from the point of view of someone who has been following Barcelona's news for more than 30 years.
No, they can’t.
Selling a portion of their TV rights is laughable.
More than a circus.
Why do you say they can't?
Why is it wrong to sell a portion of the television rights and what would you have done?
Just a question about the terminology issue here. Gross -> pre-tax, net -> post-tax ?
Is the number 25 mil pre- or post-tax?
Had/has any of their players disagreed to take the offer of deferred payments (or paycuts) during covid or now ?
No, Umtiti said no at first I want to say but I believe he eventually relented.
I find it absolutely hilarious that some people have seriously claimed we are "as badly run as Barca are". I'm not for a moment suggesting the management of our club has been in any way competent for the past ten or so years but I can't quite fathom how anyone could equate it to the absolutely colossal shitshow that is FC Barcelona.
I'm talking more about contracts in general, not football. Debt is renegotiated all the time. Mortgages are refinanced. What is unethical isn't the principle, but the means used to achieve the change (undue pressure at players, for instance).
Real Madrid players reduced their salary by 10% during the pandemic.
The majority of the time these situations are not resolved by renegotiating wages, but by selling the player. Either way, the contract was not fulfilled.
The incentive is that when the financial situation gets bad enough, it affects the club's capacity to compete, and presumably players don't want to be at a club that is not competitive. If De Jong stays and Barcelona have two more seasons where they're terrible, he's not going to want to fulfill the last two years of his contract. He's not a sick note who lucked out into a massive contract; someone will pay him well enough elsewhere. The other incentive is to be somewhere you're wanted.
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And you'd say that global pandemics are 'all the time type events?
It happens all the time but usually clubs increase wages not reduce them.
And usually when a club asks a player to reduce their wages, they want them reduced to zero, i.e. "please feck off, we don't want you here."
As far as 'ethics' go this is a one of the simpler cases, De Jong is a young player who can get those high wages elsewhere, he's not a 33-year-old asked to give up his last big payday.
De Jong is not going to get these wages elsewhere
Because selling future profits and don't use them for debt restructuring but to buy new shiny toys, some even with no reselling value, isn't the way to reduce debt. It's the sure way into bankruptcy as the gap between income and spending will only widen with the years coming.
It's pre tax. All wages in Germany are pre tax.
His basic wage, before the deferred bonus payments clusterfeck is what? £230k / week so clearly he is.
The loyalty bonus is set at 2m euro /year so another 35 grand on top of the 230.
Then he has bonuses for winning things, which most clubs will also include.
So of course a bunch of clubs will offer that.
What clubs won’t do is match that PLUS the debt currently owed to him from Barca, but that has nothing to do with his wage, it’s a debt owed.
Yes, it's like you say.
Pre-tax
The money from the sale of the television rights will go most of it to pay off debt.
And the rest for signings.
That's what Laporta and the economic vice president said.
In a few days the economic balance of the season will come out and see what debt there is.
Not being willing to pay De Jong (and maybe other players) what we owe him is so crazy. I do not understand, how they can get away with it.
I'm sorry but how are financial mechanisms relevant to this conversation? "Contracts are renegotiated all the time" - that has nothing to do with an employer trying to renegotiate his employee's salary lower. The way you presented it was very disingenuous in the context of the conversation and the reality is, what Barça are doing is absolutely not a common practice.
Barca are like an drunkard wasting his fortune on unnecessary assets but his wife is at home with hungry kids fighting poverty.
Terribly run club should be banned from signing any player until settle their current employees their money. If not sell some profitable player asset and forced to get on with it.
Terribly run club should be banned from signing any player until settle their current employees their money. If not sell some profitable player asset and forced to get on with it.
But he isn’t being asked to take a cut on his basic wages, his deferred wages are now tacked on to that. When Barca say take a pay cut they’re saying you should leave money in the table that you wouldn’t get anywhere else.
Barca aren’t going to ask him to go from 500k a week to 400k a week, if he sees 250k he’ll be lucky
Paradoxically, Barcelona will probably keep a player they can not afford to keep because they can not / will not pay what they owe him. That way, any player can be tied up in Barcelona for several years.
There may be a form of union / player association that can take care of the players' interests and wage rights in a case like this.
Wondering if Barcelona can register all their new players at all if they do not manage their salaries? I really have a hard time understanding how the club can continue without consequences.
There may be a form of union / player association that can take care of the players' interests and wage rights in a case like this.
Wondering if Barcelona can register all their new players at all if they do not manage their salaries? I really have a hard time understanding how the club can continue without consequences.
So to be clear, you think there are no issues, ethically, for a club trying to renegotiate a previously agreed contract with terms less favorable to the employee, provided they can find the same terms elsewhere? Even though that would mean moving house and probably country, uprooting families, selling houses etc? To make it a little closer to home, what would you think of your employer's behavior if they told you that you either needed to accept a pay cut or find a job elsewhere, while you see them lining up new staff to bring in?
I'm not sure why people are piling in on Barcelona about ethics, football itself is unethical at best and shockingly corrupt at worst, from the very top of the game down to grassroots academy level.
Its not so much a sport anymore, it's a multi billion pound business. And too often decisions at the top of these billion pound operations are left to one guy on a whim, who if he makes some poor decisions puts full clubs in jeopardy, the Rangers case mentioned earlier being case on point.
As for Barca, they are in a big hole, & Laporte has got no choice but to try and maneuver themselves out of that hole. Now, such is that mess, it was never going to be easy, & it was never going to be pretty.
At the same time, to get out of that hole, a big part of that will be that they need to remain competitive. We all know they need to cut costs, but there's no point in doing so if revenues as well are going to decrease, starting from prize money dropping if the team gets worse, which could then hamper commercialisation etc. So they need to maximise those revenues as well.
As an Arsenal fan, I've certainly no love for Barcelona, the way they've walked over us at times. But my limited knowledge tells me Laporte is not a stupid man, and that they will be working to some sort of plan. Whether it's 1 we from the outside with limited knowledge can understand or appreciate is another matter.
However, I'm not sure how much you can judge ethically in a corrupt world.
Its not so much a sport anymore, it's a multi billion pound business. And too often decisions at the top of these billion pound operations are left to one guy on a whim, who if he makes some poor decisions puts full clubs in jeopardy, the Rangers case mentioned earlier being case on point.
As for Barca, they are in a big hole, & Laporte has got no choice but to try and maneuver themselves out of that hole. Now, such is that mess, it was never going to be easy, & it was never going to be pretty.
At the same time, to get out of that hole, a big part of that will be that they need to remain competitive. We all know they need to cut costs, but there's no point in doing so if revenues as well are going to decrease, starting from prize money dropping if the team gets worse, which could then hamper commercialisation etc. So they need to maximise those revenues as well.
As an Arsenal fan, I've certainly no love for Barcelona, the way they've walked over us at times. But my limited knowledge tells me Laporte is not a stupid man, and that they will be working to some sort of plan. Whether it's 1 we from the outside with limited knowledge can understand or appreciate is another matter.
However, I'm not sure how much you can judge ethically in a corrupt world.
Like feck they are.
They are saying ”we’re skint, play for less than you would get elsewhere cause Mes que un club” or some bullshit.
De Jong absolutely would get his contracted 230 k /week + 35k /week loyalty elsewhere. We pay Sancho more & Martial aint far off.
Yes but what I’m saying is his wages aren’t that anymore after the agreement. That disappeared when he signed a two year extension just to receive 500k a weekLike feck they are.
They are saying ”we’re skint, play for less than you would get elsewhere cause Mes que un club” or some bullshit.
De Jong absolutely would get his contracted 230 k /week + 35k /week loyalty elsewhere. We pay Sancho more & Martial aint far off.
Isn't this just whataboutery, though? Just because the rest of the football world is dirty doesn't mean that a club treating an employee shittily shouldn't be held to account.
very frustrating to have only 5 messages to answer like 1000 daily posts insulting us hahaha
Most common practice in the world in the last 2 years. Barça situation is not normal. Many companies just fire you and leave you without any income.
There are exactly 0 issues with TRYING to renegotiate any contract.
Btw, I doubt anybody pays FDJ what Barça will pay next year.
You can repeat same lies all the times you want. BARÇA PAYS EVERY PLAYER WHAT THEIR CONTRACTS SAY. PERIOD.
If you don't pay, you are relegated. PERIOD.
It happens almost every year.
Barça should be relegated if does not pay the players. Exactly.
That is the reason Barça is not relegated, because Barça didn't fail a single payment!!!!!
i have never read that in this forum
you again??
yes
stupid take.
united gives 8 figures money every year to the glazers, from your revenues.
11M this month.
is that a circus?
Most common practice in the world in the last 2 years. Barça situation is not normal. Many companies just fire you and leave you without any income.
There are exactly 0 issues with TRYING to renegotiate any contract.
Btw, I doubt anybody pays FDJ what Barça will pay next year.
You can repeat same lies all the times you want. BARÇA PAYS EVERY PLAYER WHAT THEIR CONTRACTS SAY. PERIOD.
If you don't pay, you are relegated. PERIOD.
It happens almost every year.
Barça should be relegated if does not pay the players. Exactly.
That is the reason Barça is not relegated, because Barça didn't fail a single payment!!!!!
i have never read that in this forum
you again??
yes
stupid take.
united gives 8 figures money every year to the glazers, from your revenues.
11M this month.
is that a circus?
He’s not on 500k /week.
He’s on 230 + 35 bonus (pounds). The rest of the money you are referring to is what he is owed in back wages.
For these past two years he was on just 60 grand a week man, and last year on 115,000 euros.
He’s played for them for two years on a fecking salary he’d receive at Aston Villa for fecks sake. Should we all and he just forget that?
Even now, his salary including back pay is less than we pay Sancho, DDG and Varane.
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How many clubs don’t pay their staff ?
These Barca fans live in an alternate reality, I swear
They can no longer afford the letter B from their name. Instead they have had to replace it with the much cheaper F.
Farcelona for being Tight Arselona.
I think the main reason people are piling on is because it's rare these days for the powerful to get comeuppance for their actions.
Barca lived vastly outside its means, made idiotic deals while all the while still acting like the big dog.
Now the thought that it can just get away with it bristles a lot of people, just like all the shameless politicians or billionaires getting away with stuff we'd be fired or jailed for.
Basically Barca needs to be humble and take its medicine, not act like it can keep doing whatever it wants.
Barca lived vastly outside its means, made idiotic deals while all the while still acting like the big dog.
Now the thought that it can just get away with it bristles a lot of people, just like all the shameless politicians or billionaires getting away with stuff we'd be fired or jailed for.
Basically Barca needs to be humble and take its medicine, not act like it can keep doing whatever it wants.
Couldn't have put it better myself. If they accepted responsibility as opposed to acting like they were owed their position at the top table, like how dare such petty issues as MONEY and SUSTAINABLE SPENDING threaten that, I think many would be more sympathetic. Not me though, admittedly, I just can't stand the club.
What are Barcelona "getting away with"? They lost their most talented, beloved player because of the wage cap. They've been shedding their best players for the last few years and haven't been competitive in La Liga.
It seems wrong that they could end up keeping a player due to refusing to pay him money owed.