Barcelona: Charged with corruption .... again!

Mastadon said:
They can’t just be targeting top 4 and stagnating while paying down debt because those massive commercial deals they have are based on winning titles not just finishing 4th. Look at Arsenal for example once we started paying down the stadium debt and stopped signing players to compete for titles we started to fall behind commercially and we fell behind the more successful clubs. Signings like Lewandowski are aimed at winning the CL to keep the sponsors happy to pay premium amounts.
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Indeed, that is why Barcelona sign those players in addition to being good footballers.
 
Mastadon said:
They can’t just be targeting top 4 and stagnating while paying down debt because those massive commercial deals they have are based on winning titles not just finishing 4th. Look at Arsenal for example once we started paying down the stadium debt and stopped signing players to compete for titles we started to fall behind commercially and we fell behind the more successful clubs. Signings like Lewandowski are aimed at winning the CL to keep the sponsors happy to pay premium amounts.
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They are not winning the CL even if they sign Lewandowski, Kounde, Raphina and Bernardo Silva.
And no offense to Arsenal, but Barcelona is the way bigger club.
 
Acrobat7 said:
They are not winning the CL even if they sign Lewandowski, Kounde, Raphina and Bernardo Silva.
And no offense to Arsenal, but Barcelona is the way bigger club.
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I dont know to be honest. Add Kessie, Christensen, Alonso and bring Dembele back in and it starts looking a pretty good team. I'd consider than an extravagant window for PSG though so I dont really understand how the hell they can afford it.
I dont really get the Silva link either, i mean hes insanely good, i get why anyone would want him but i thought Gavi and Pedri were more inclined towards attacking, Kessie too so why not bring in a Busquets upgrade or cover?
 
Acrobat7 said:
They are not winning the CL even if they sign Lewandowski, Kounde, Raphina and Bernardo Silva.
And no offense to Arsenal, but Barcelona is the way bigger club.
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Whoever is handing Barca hundreds of millions of pounds or maybe even a billion for broadcasting/commercial rights isn’t doing so just to see them challenge for top 4 because that would mean less money for them. They are also doing a massive debt restructuring with an investment bank and I would wager good money that whatever Barca is doing is either being approved or advised by them as part of the restructuring. There is most definitely some method in what you see as madness.
 
They're a genuine disgrace.

How do they have the audacity to chase the likes of Lewandowski and Bernardo Silva when they're effectively in debt to their own players?

Embarrassing
 
Mastadon said:
They can’t just be targeting top 4 and stagnating while paying down debt because those massive commercial deals they have are based on winning titles not just finishing 4th. Look at Arsenal for example once we started paying down the stadium debt and stopped signing players to compete for titles we started to fall behind commercially and we fell behind the more successful clubs. Signings like Lewandowski are aimed at winning the CL to keep the sponsors happy to pay premium amounts.
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That’s not true. Sponsors don’t demand success, they just go after the large fanbases. Historical clubs get huge deals regardless of mmm if they win the CL reach quarters etc
 
Bluelion7 said:
They cheat their own rules for Madrid and Barca. Everyone knows this.
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What rules have Madrid broken? A few years ago we lost a court case having to do with taxes (private vs non profit treatment that spanned all the way back to the early 90s) and ended up paying about 15-20 million in fines.
What cheating have we (Madrid) benefitted from?
 
caid said:
I dont know to be honest. Add Kessie, Christensen, Alonso and bring Dembele back in and it starts looking a pretty good team. I'd consider than an extravagant window for PSG though so I dont really understand how the hell they can afford it.
I dont really get the Silva link either, i mean hes insanely good, i get why anyone would want him but i thought Gavi and Pedri were more inclined towards attacking, Kessie too so why not bring in a Busquets upgrade or cover?
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They already have the perfect Busquets upgrade at the club but fortunately they are hell bent on selling him to us!
 
Not that it needs saying but getting up-front cash right now in exchange for trading away future revenue streams helps in the short-term but undermines Barca's revenue-generating capacity in the long-run. That will hardly help their FFP position, never mind their current position in terms of La Liga regulations.

Secondly, if you are next to broke as a club, surely you invest in young, cheap players? Lewandowski is a great player but he can't have that many great years left in him, will likely have no real re-sale value, plus surely he's going to be on decent wages. And why are they signing Azpilicueta and Alonso? These two players are 32 and 31 respectively! What is the long-term plan?
 
Back from the brink my ass. There's something truly amiss here. The amount of dodgy money laundered through hidden offshore accounts is probably insane.

But don't count on FIFA or UEFA to do anything about it.
 
ilrm said:
What rules have Madrid broken? A few years ago we lost a court case having to do with taxes (private vs non profit treatment that spanned all the way back to the early 90s) and ended up paying about 15-20 million in fines.
What cheating have we (Madrid) benefitted from?
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The help has gone back years. I think you're talking about the state aid case which you have to pay fines on, but there have been others like when the authorities bought your training ground for £300m to wipe-out £200m debt. That one was investigated by the EU.
 
Rawls said:
Not that it needs saying but getting up-front cash right now in exchange for trading away future revenue streams helps in the short-term but undermines Barca's revenue-generating capacity in the long-run. That will hardly help their FFP position, never mind their current position in terms of La Liga regulations.

Secondly, if you are next to broke as a club, surely you invest in young, cheap players? Lewandowski is a great player but he can't have that many great years left in him, will likely have no real re-sale value, plus surely he's going to be on decent wages. And why are they signing Azpilicueta and Alonso? These two players are 32 and 31 respectively! What is the long-term plan?
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I've been wondering the same thing, and the only thing I can think of that makes sense is if they're confident that the ESL will re-emerge within the next couple of years and will guarantee them financial stability, so now they're just ensuring continued sporting success until then. That does seem like quite a gamble, though, unless they know something nobody else does.
 
Rawls said:
Secondly, if you are next to broke as a club, surely you invest in young, cheap players? Lewandowski is a great player but he can't have that many great years left in him, will likely have no real re-sale value, plus surely he's going to be on decent wages. And why are they signing Azpilicueta and Alonso? These two players are 32 and 31 respectively! What is the long-term plan?
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Barcelona have a lot of young players. Pedri is 19, Gavi is 17 (!), Fati is 19, Nico is 20, Dest is 21, Eric Garcia is 21, Ferran Torres is 22, and Ronald Araujo is 23. The whole squad can't be a bunch of toddlers. The long-term plan is for some of these players to take the reins in the future, while older players with short contracts handle the present.
 
Balljy said:
The help has gone back years. I think you're talking about the state aid case which you have to pay fines on, but there have been others like when the authorities bought your training ground for £300m to wipe-out £200m debt. That one was investigated by the EU.
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To be fair they were told to pay back about 18m from a deal where they were paid 22m for land by the council, land that had only been worth about 400k before Florentino and the lads on the council decided to do a bit of rezoning. But were also able to wipe out almost 250m in debts by selling the rest of the training ground to other public project bidders. Plus through other land swap deals with the council they magically ended up owning land worth over 200m right beside their stadium.

So out of over 250m in money received from the "rezoning" of land by the council, and the extra land they got by doing some swaps with the council. They were told to pay back 18m. Nothing fishy about that at all, all 100% legal and above board.
 
I have taken a great amount of joy in barcelona's recent issues. Long may they continue. Not so feckin cocky now they are financially fecked.
 
HTG said:
When they begun their financial rebuilt I actually thought most of what they were doing was quite reasonable and made sense.
Right now I’m shaking my head in disbelief. Nothing makes sense anymore and I have no idea, what they are doing.
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They started off quite well too. They cleared out the players on massive wages, they brought some promising youth players further into the first team fold and they got some decent, relatively cheap signings like Memphis in that were doing okay.

Recently though it makes no sense and is almost as strange an approach as Barto had.
 
::sonny:: said:
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Its simple. They have sold 10% of their TV rights for the next 25 years as well as merchandise rights. No club would ever do this unless if theyre stupid. Its daft 25 years is a long time. It seems like whoever is in charge right now only want to be safe themselves and not giving a feck to the future. They're solving current problem with future money, basically only moving the problem from now to the future. It will be their successor's problems. A recipe for disaster.
 
tenpoless said:
Its simple. They have sold 10% of their TV rights for the next 25 years as well as merchandise rights. No club would ever do this unless if theyre stupid. Its daft 25 years is a long time. It seems like whoever is in charge right now only want to be safe themselves and not giving a feck to the future. They're solving current problem with future money, basically only moving the problem from now to the future. It will be their successor's problems. A recipe for disaster.
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Barca management, Laporta are politician

They are only interested at the present and their personal brand
 
tenpoless said:
Its simple. They have sold 10% of their TV rights for the next 25 years as well as merchandise rights. No club would ever do this unless if theyre stupid. Its daft 25 years is a long time. It seems like whoever is in charge right now only want to be safe themselves and not giving a feck to the future. They're solving current problem with future money, basically only moving the problem from now to the future. It will be their successor's problems. A recipe for disaster.
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It’s insane what they’re doing with their rights, but they’re selling because they’re still hoping for a Super League deal to happen, you watch, that hasn’t gone away.
 
Rawls said:
Not that it needs saying but getting up-front cash right now in exchange for trading away future revenue streams helps in the short-term but undermines Barca's revenue-generating capacity in the long-run. That will hardly help their FFP position, never mind their current position in terms of La Liga regulations.
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Absolutely. Barcelona is playing with fire here.
An reemergence of the corona lockdowns where they fully depend on TV revenue alone, and they are dead in the water.
 
tenpoless said:
Its simple. They have sold 10% of their TV rights for the next 25 years as well as merchandise rights
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Doesn't Laporta want to sell another 15% of their TV rights?
They behaving like some of the Mediterranean countries in the EU. Except they won't get an ECB bailout.
 
B. Munich said:
Absolutely. Barcelona is playing with fire here.
An reemergence of the corona lockdowns where they fully depend on TV revenue alone, and they are dead in the water.
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Fully expect a Super League push to happen this season or next. From this point onwards, all revenue in football will most likely come down year on year.
 
B. Munich said:
Doesn't Laporta want to sell another 15% of their TV rights?
They behaving like some of the Mediterranean countries in the EU. Except they won't get an ECB bailout.
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Don't be so sure on that. Wouldn't be the first time the spanish state bankrolled Real or Barca, right?
 
Iker Quesadillas said:
Barcelona have a lot of young players. Pedri is 19, Gavi is 17 (!), Fati is 19, Nico is 20, Dest is 21, Eric Garcia is 21, Ferran Torres is 22, and Ronald Araujo is 23. The whole squad can't be a bunch of toddlers. The long-term plan is for some of these players to take the reins in the future, while older players with short contracts handle the present.
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The only issue with that strategy is when the younger players don’t turn out to be good enough. Then you’re left replacing the likes of Lewandowski, Azpi etc, while also needing upgrades on those younger players.

There’s not really any concerns about Pedri and Gavi, but Dest, Fati and others, the jury is still out. But either way, I still think it’s risky to be committing so much money on players for two years max - with no resale value.
 
Acrobat7 said:
Stupid tweet since Bayern didn’t say that.
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Probably they didn't, but I wouldn't say it's impossible for Brazzo to react to the Lewandowski offer the way he allegedly did (which was pay everything up front, as we don't think you'll be able to pay installments)
 
tenpoless said:
Its simple. They have sold 10% of their TV rights for the next 25 years as well as merchandise rights. No club would ever do this unless if theyre stupid. Its daft 25 years is a long time. It seems like whoever is in charge right now only want to be safe themselves and not giving a feck to the future. They're solving current problem with future money, basically only moving the problem from now to the future. It will be their successor's problems. A recipe for disaster.
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And what exactly will be the successor's problems based on that deal, can you elaborate this further please? As I understand it, Barca already nearly neglected the €40m sold in tv rights by changing the sponsor to spotify and still have room open on the sleeve for another sponsor.
 
Ragnar123 said:
And what exactly will be the successor's problems based on that deal, can you elaborate this further please? As I understand it, Barca already nearly neglected the €40m sold in tv rights by changing the sponsor to spotify and still have room open on the sleeve for another sponsor.
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Simply put Barca will have reduced revenues in the future. They are cashing out their future money now. They can add more sponsors but they will still have reduced future money compared to if they didnt agree to sell some of their rights. What Im saying is instead of insisting on spending money for top class players, why dont they just accept the current financial situation and start from there? there is no need to cash out future money, cash out what they have now to prevent current problems from snowballing into a bigger one in the future.

But here they are targeting Lewandowski, a short term player with huge wages that doesnt have a resale value. Sponsorship money is nice and all, how about use it to pay current wages? if they can get more money from sponsorships, good, stop making silly deals and spend those money to pay some of the debts, instead of creating even more.
 
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tenpoless said:
Simply put Barca will have reduced revenues in the future. They are cashing out their future money now. They can add more sponsors but they will still have reduced future money compared to if they didnt agree to sell some of their rights. What Im saying is instead of insisting on spending money for top class players, why dont they just accept the current financial situation and start from there? there is no need to cash out future money, cash out what they have now to prevent current problems from snowballing into a bigger one in the future.
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Many people already stated. You can't stay competitive without investments and without competitiveness, the revenue will be even less than what they sold right now. We already saw last season, on what level barca would play without any signings. Somewhere between 6th and 9th position in LaLiga and playing EL against Frankfurt. They only recovered 2nd place thanks to Torres, Aubemeyang and to some point Traore. Stopping signings would be longterm suicide, because in that position even for a few years would make it impossible to pay debts. Barca needs at least the CL quaterfinals money and publicity to stay attractive to sponsors.
And as I stated, if they already covered the yearly €40m less with other sponsors, why would it snowball?
 
Oranges038 said:
No, the land was just rezoned by the council so it was worth 5000% more than it was previously.

Then it was sold at the new price.
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EVERYBODY knew the rezone was happening, no matter in 2000 or 2020 but IT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN. if you know madrid it is more than obvious. right at the end of the main street of the city, very close to the financial area, etc. it's been obvious for decades that that area was going to be developed, that is why NOBODY was selling the land.

actually, the biggest issue is not the rezoning, which, again, was obvious, but if real madrid was entitled to the ownership, because the land was given many decades ago to real madrid for this purpose. this area, at that moment, was far away. bernabeu is also in a prime spot but it wasnt in the past (or not so prime)

and obviously all the owners got money, not just real madrid.

tenpoless said:
Its simple. They have sold 10% of their TV rights for the next 25 years as well as merchandise rights. No club would ever do this unless if theyre stupid. Its daft 25 years is a long time. It seems like whoever is in charge right now only want to be safe themselves and not giving a feck to the future. They're solving current problem with future money, basically only moving the problem from now to the future. It will be their successor's problems. A recipe for disaster.
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10% of LALIGA tv rights, only LALIGA. we haven't sold any merchandise rights and at this moment it is basically discarded.
and i don't really follow the logic here, what is the difference between getting a loan and selling assets to pay the debts and spend some of that money to try to keep fighting for titles to be able to keep the future incomes?

bayern munich sold 25% of the club at 1bn valuation in average to pay for the stadium.
united handles 8 figures every single year to the glazers from their incomes (11M this month).

i dont see you calling them stupid or disaster.

::sonny:: said:
twitter guy i cannot post
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another mr. twitter nobody lying... hahaha. who cares what these people say?

GDaly95 said:
They're a genuine disgrace.

How do they have the audacity to chase the likes of Lewandowski and Bernardo Silva when they're effectively in debt to their own players?

Embarrassing
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barça pays what the contracts say. saying that you cannot buy other stuff just because you have debt is embarrasing.

Rawls said:
Not that it needs saying but getting up-front cash right now in exchange for trading away future revenue streams helps in the short-term but undermines Barca's revenue-generating capacity in the long-run. That will hardly help their FFP position, never mind their current position in terms of La Liga regulations.

Secondly, if you are next to broke as a club, surely you invest in young, cheap players? Lewandowski is a great player but he can't have that many great years left in him, will likely have no real re-sale value, plus surely he's going to be on decent wages. And why are they signing Azpilicueta and Alonso? These two players are 32 and 31 respectively! What is the long-term plan?
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like getting a loan.
this is done basically to meet laliga FFP requirements, what are you talking about??? hahaha.
this is actually done to be able to operate normally. at this moment we cannot even sell 10 millions and spend 5 in a substitute.

i woudn't buy lewa at 40M for the reason you mention, but azpi and alonso should be very cheap and we have a solution for at least 2-3 years in a current hole.

we have araujo, eric, gavi, pedri, ansu, ferran... those are usual starters (when fit) and 20 is their average age. i dont even count fdj (for now at least), dembele (he will probably stay), dest, etc. which are young too.

ALL the signings and renewals are within the new salary structure, so salaries won't be an issue when toxic contracts end (2 years) unless obviously our revenue decreases another 50%
 
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