Barcelona: Charged with corruption .... again!

[Mb194dc]

there are actually as I described in my previous post.
When the club has a certain amount of deficit (€100m if I remember correctly) or more during one presidential cycle (6 years in total), the president and his board is liable to make up for it with their own money.
The problem here is, that Bartomeu persuaded the players to deffer the wages into a new presidential cycle, even in his last days as president, so he found a loophole sadly that wasn't covered since no one thought about such a possibility before.

It's a nonsense rule because it's so easy to manipulate, as seen by Bartomeu.

The better way to ensure financial stability would be a hard cap on wages as a % of revenue, say 70% and a maximum amount of net debt % relative to revenue.

I think there's a reasonable chance Barcelona go bust in the next 2 or 3 years. The gamble is on future growth but I doubt it'll work.

 

[OmarUnited4ever]

according to the latest reports, Barca wants to bring in :-

Kounde, Lewa, Raphinha, B.Silva,

For Kounde, Seville might ask for €70m (i think this was what they quoted Chelsea last summer).
For Lewa, Bayern want €60m, according to reports from Germany.
for Raphinha, Leeds are getting £60m from Chelsea (€70m), so if they want Leeds to accept an offer, they must top that.
and finally for B.Silva, not sure how much City will demand for him, but if I am guessing, it will be €65m or more.

They are also chasing Spanish FBs in Chelsea Alonso & Azpilicueta, not sure how much Chelsea will ask but I bet both are on 1 year deal and could go for a cheap fee


so, basically they will spend a total of €265m this summer (very low and conservative numbers probably).

Is that even possible for them? to spend something close to €300m on transfer fees? even if we assume they sell, only De Jong will fetch a respectable fee of €65m, the rest will fetch €25m or less (Dest, Depay, Lenglet, etc...)

 

[bringbackbebe]

It's a nonsense rule because it's so easy to manipulate, as seen by Bartomeu.

The better way to ensure financial stability would be a hard cap on wages as a % of revenue, say 70% and a maximum amount of net debt % relative to revenue.

I think there's a reasonable chance Barcelona go bust in the next 2 or 3 years. The gamble is on future growth but I doubt it'll work.

This is a serious possibility. Most of La Liga clubs, with the exception of Real Madrid, are in a dire financial state. They've been able to get away hoarding debt thus far because of exponential rise in broadcasting revenues over the past two decades. Now that growth is significantly slowing down & will soon hit stable state with most international markets already covered. These clubs are now also capitalizing their future revenue streams to spend on annual operating expenses, taking risk beyond what they can afford to lose. This does not bode well.

 

[cyberman]

This is a serious possibility. Most of La Liga clubs, with the exception of Real Madrid, are in a dire financial state. They've been able to get away hoarding debt thus far because of exponential rise in broadcasting revenues over the past two decades. Now that growth is significantly slowing down & will soon hit stable state with most international markets already covered. These clubs are now also capitalizing their future revenue streams to spend on annual operating expenses, taking risk beyond what they can afford to lose. This does not bode well.

Exactly. I’d also add someone like Sevilla could take this risk since Madrid v Barca is the attraction but it’s catastrophic for the league when it’s one half of their selling point that’s in this much trouble. The entire league is based off of El Classicos and having the best players in the world in the pitch but that entire angle is dead now. Even Atletico are in dire financial need, where is the challenge for Madrid to base future tv rights from? The meltdown from La Liga when Mbappe and Haalands turned them down tells the story and not a big enough fuss was made about why.

 

[Acrobat7]

so, basically they will spend a total of €265m this summer (very low and conservative numbers probably).

Is that even possible for them? to spend something close to €300m on transfer fees? even if we assume they sell, only De Jong will fetch a respectable fee of €65m, the rest will fetch €25m or less (Dest, Depay, Lenglet, etc...)

Imagine they spend €230m+ on those four and then cannot register them

 

[OmarUnited4ever]

Imagine they spend €230m+ on those four and then cannot register them

Forget registering them, can they buy all these players in the first place?

the best they can aim for in terms of player sales is: -

Coutinho = 25m (done)
De Jong = 65m
Depay = 25m
Dest = 25m
Lenglet = 15m

That's just 170m, not enough to cover everyone they are aiming to sign, unless some of the monies they got from those pulled levers will be used on transfer fees (which I doubt is the case!).

 

[Ace_Ventura]

This is quite a spectacle, bankrupt Barcelona are trying to buy Lewandowski, Bernardo Silva, Kounde and Raphinha. All this while their president has stated publicly that he'll do everything in his power to keep De Jong. If I had to make a prediction, this'll go up in flames in this window itself and they most likely only get Lewa (may miss out on all 4 altogether).

 

[FCBarcelona]

Laporta is responsible for Bartomeu contracts, because Bartomeu was an elected "President of FC Barcelona", and Bartomeu represented Barcelona legally when those contracts were signed, so Barcelona, and Laporta are responsible for those contracts, of course Laporta will try to find "legal" solutions to get rid of those problematic contracts (e.g agree wage cuts, sell players, etc..), but he is still responsible for them as the current "President" of FC Barcelona, and if a player (e.g De Jong decides not to agree to a move to united and not agree to wage cuts), then nothing Laporta can do here, probably only deploy the media and get the fans to hate De Jong, but De Jong can make so that he gets paid no matter what.

What is not "legal" about selling players, loaning or negotiating new contracts?

The "bully" picture you are obsess to sell is simply ridiculous. Barça has had a lot of issues to unload players, they just stay there and get ALL their money one way or another. Worst bullies of all time, as we don't get rid of anyone.
Nobody hate or will hate De Jong.

I don't pity the players, I just think it shows Barca up for the unethical, poorly managed joke they've become. And the cherry on the top of the cake is the narrative that the club are now spinning (and fans are perpetuating) that heroic Barca only want players that really WANT to play for them (and are therefore willing to take a pay cut). The club has a deep lack of humility and an overwhelming sense of entitlement from the top down. I'd love to see it go under.

The "unethical" part was Bartomeu paying journalists and companies to defend him and attack players. THAT is unethical (and criminal, because Bartomeu is a CRIMINAL).
I don't know what is the unethical part to try to avoid bankrupcy by trying to negotiate salaries (among many other things). Salaries that were by the way the main part of the issue as they were way over the market.
The fact that Barça is unable for the most part to release the players they want is an easy way to show that it is not the bully you are always talking about.
Humility for you is not trying to negotiate or sell any player, only pay them. hahahaha.

Well, for some reason you hate Barça and you just want it to disappear, that it the whole point of your message. At least you said it clearly.

And don't worry, we can always be sold to a random billionaire or dictatorship

It's a nonsense rule because it's so easy to manipulate, as seen by Bartomeu.

The better way to ensure financial stability would be a hard cap on wages as a % of revenue, say 70% and a maximum amount of net debt % relative to revenue.

I think there's a reasonable chance Barcelona go bust in the next 2 or 3 years. The gamble is on future growth but I doubt it'll work.

Your proposal is as easy to manipulate. You can do exactly the same as Bartomeu did.
And now, the "gamble" is not that. In 2-3 years salaries should be back to normal (they have improved a lot and all toxic contracts should be over).
We will need to pay the debt little by little and it will obviously affect us from a sporting point of view.

But it is not that different to United paying 7 figures dividends to the Glazers every year.

 

[Acrobat7]

Forget registering them, can they buy all these players in the first place?

the best they can aim for in terms of player sales is: -

Coutinho = 25m (done)
De Jong = 65m
Depay = 25m
Dest = 25m
Lenglet = 15m

That's just 170m, not enough to cover everyone they are aiming to sign, unless some of the monies they got from those pulled levers will be used on transfer fees (which I doubt is the case!).

I agree that getting all four and realizing the sales prices you quoted is ambitious (to say the least…) but it would still be more fun, if they manage to do so and then fail to register the players.

 

[Rooney in Paris]

But it is not that different to United paying 7 figures dividends to the Glazers every year.

Erm... what?

 

[Ish]

Bartomeu and his administration really f'd them over

 

[cyberman]

Shocking that this is even a consideration

 

[Niemans]

It's a nonsense rule because it's so easy to manipulate, as seen by Bartomeu.

The better way to ensure financial stability would be a hard cap on wages as a % of revenue, say 70% and a maximum amount of net debt % relative to revenue.

I think there's a reasonable chance Barcelona go bust in the next 2 or 3 years. The gamble is on future growth but I doubt it'll work.

Sandro Rosell implemented rules to avoid having more debt than advisable. The norm was a maximum debt of 2 times the Ebitda, if you went beyond this figure you had 2 years to return to be within the margins or the entire board of directors was fired.

This is a serious possibility. Most of La Liga clubs, with the exception of Real Madrid, are in a dire financial state. They've been able to get away hoarding debt thus far because of exponential rise in broadcasting revenues over the past two decades. Now that growth is significantly slowing down & will soon hit stable state with most international markets already covered. These clubs are now also capitalizing their future revenue streams to spend on annual operating expenses, taking risk beyond what they can afford to lose. This does not bode well.

Exactly. I’d also add someone like Sevilla could take this risk since Madrid v Barca is the attraction but it’s catastrophic for the league when it’s one half of their selling point that’s in this much trouble. The entire league is based off of El Classicos and having the best players in the world in the pitch but that entire angle is dead now. Even Atletico are in dire financial need, where is the challenge for Madrid to base future tv rights from? The meltdown from La Liga when Mbappe and Haalands turned them down tells the story and not a big enough fuss was made about why.

Laliga is the one that best passed the pandemic of the 5 major leagues by far, thanks to the FFP. With the exception of Barcelona obviously.

Laliga signed the new TV rights for the next 5 years with an increase of 1%, without Messi and with the pandemic. In Italy, new TV rights fell by 2% to give an example. In Germany I think they were maintained.

Forget registering them, can they buy all these players in the first place?

the best they can aim for in terms of player sales is: -

Coutinho = 25m (done)
De Jong = 65m
Depay = 25m
Dest = 25m
Lenglet = 15m

That's just 170m, not enough to cover everyone they are aiming to sign, unless some of the monies they got from those pulled levers will be used on transfer fees (which I doubt is the case!).

Griezzman €40M possibly at the end of the season.
Barcelona lowering the wage bill and creating a salary structure will have no problem signing these players, as long as they are able to loan or sell the players they don't need.

This is quite a spectacle, bankrupt Barcelona are trying to buy Lewandowski, Bernardo Silva, Kounde and Raphinha. All this while their president has stated publicly that he'll do everything in his power to keep De Jong. If I had to make a prediction, this'll go up in flames in this window itself and they most likely only get Lewa (may miss out on all 4 altogether).

Raphinha is well advanced.

 

[Zen86]

The sad state of football. Funny that it’s Barca tbf though.

 

[OmarUnited4ever]

Griezzman €40M possibly at the end of the season.
Barcelona lowering the wage bill and creating a salary structure will have no problem signing these players, as long as they are able to loan or sell the players they don't need

Agreed on the bolded part, Barca can sign and register players, but not to that ambitious degree of (Lewa + Raphinha + B.Silva + Kounde) at most maybe 2 of the 4 Barca can sign, plus Alonso & Azpi on low fees

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

Barça has had a lot of issues to unload players, they just stay there and get ALL their money one way or another. Worst bullies of all time, as we don't get rid of anyone.

Barcelona's tactics failing doesn't make them ethical.

Barcelona told Dembele that, since he wasn't going to renew, he needed to leave the club immediately (so that they could get a transfer fee and/or not pay him the rest of his salary). This is not speculation, Alemany said this publicly. Xavi also said that the player had to either renew, or he needed to exit the club. The Spanish PFA criticized this and said that they considered these actions (benching him, making these public statements) to be undue and illegal pressure to make him renew. Barcelona backed off, he stayed at the club and played. What a coincidence!

 

[OmarUnited4ever]

What is not "legal" about selling players, loaning or negotiating new contracts?

The "bully" picture you are obsess to sell is simply ridiculous. Barça has had a lot of issues to unload players, they just stay there and get ALL their money one way or another. Worst bullies of all time, as we don't get rid of anyone.
Nobody hate or will hate De Jong.

You should learn to read better.

I said Laporta will try his best find legal solutions to get rid of huge wages of the players, such as selling and agreeing wage cuts, which is understandable.

My other point was, Laporta will use the Madia to create a narrative that " the player/s are not accepting wage cuts to help the club alleviate the financial crisis), and again that's also normal and expected.

In my last point, I mentioned that if for example De Jong decides not to accept a transfer to United, and not agree to wage cuts, then Barcelona cannot do anything about it and will have to pay De Jong accordingly, again, I am not saying this will happen, but it's also a possibility.

 

[horsechoker]

Shocking that this is even a consideration

 

[horsechoker]

Do you think Barcelona will end up like Rangers?

 

[crossy1686]

Barcelona are fecked aren't they? When you see stuff like this I'm glad we haven't been throwing around money we haven't got for years.

Why don't they just purge the club and tell the fans to get used to finishing 10th for the next 3 seasons while they focus on the academy? Surely all the fans would accept that over defaulting? I think we would as a fan base.

 

[Pretzels81]

Barcelona are fecked aren't they? When you see stuff like this I'm glad we haven't been throwing around money we haven't got for years.

Why don't they just purge the club and tell the fans to get used to finishing 10th for the next 3 seasons while they focus on the academy? Surely all the fans would accept that over defaulting? I think we would as a fan base.

10th? Do you even know they have finished 2nd with an ex-player as manager and a bunch of Academy kids?

People keep comparing LaLiga with the PL. LaLiga is a Bundesliga with 2 Bayerns.

 

[Mb194dc]

Default is certainly possible.

They're recklessly mortgaging their future per posts above.

 

[Devil_forever]

Shocking that this is even a consideration

Sorry but Bayern are just being difficult here to teach Lewa and Barca a lesson. Nobody in their right mind believes that Barca will go out of business within a year or two ffs.

 

[crossy1686]

Sorry but Bayern are just being difficult here to teach Lewa and Barca a lesson. Nobody in their right mind believes that Barca will go out of business within a year or two ffs.

Bayern have always been a bunch of self-righteous cnuts when it comes to the finances because they've had to watch Italian, Spanish, English and now French teams out spend them consistently for big name players.

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

10th? Do you even know they have finished 2nd with an ex-player as manager and a bunch of Academy kids?

People keep comparing LaLiga with the PL. LaLiga is a Bundesliga with 2 Bayerns.

That's precisely what makes it so silly. There's really no reason why a few careful, strategic signings shouldn't allow Barcelona to compete for the league next season, and even win it. Instead Laporta wants to build a new team in half a year.

 

[Pretzels81]

Sorry but Bayern are just being difficult here to teach Lewa and Barca a lesson. Nobody in their right mind believes that Barca will go out of business within a year or two ffs.

It was a humorous fake twitter; just as that "piqué's banging Gavi's mother" story.

 

[Blood Mage]

They're in massive trouble. You can see why they were so desperate for that Super League money.

 

[Ragnar123]

Hoeness said some 15 years ago it's just a matter of time before the bailiff closes madrid's bernabeu. So maybe they are tired of waiting there and moved to camp nou? Now they can wait infront of the camp nou for 15 years for it to close down, meanwhile spanish teams continue to win trophies.

 

[FCBarcelona]

Erm... what?

Sorry, 8.

i dont know if i can post links (but you can do a quick google search):
https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...ester-united-glazer-dividend-payment-24309957

11M pounds for the glazers (well, mostly them) this month.

Barcelona's tactics failing doesn't make them ethical.

Barcelona told Dembele that, since he wasn't going to renew, he needed to leave the club immediately (so that they could get a transfer fee and/or not pay him the rest of his salary). This is not speculation, Alemany said this publicly. Xavi also said that the player had to either renew, or he needed to exit the club. The Spanish PFA criticized this and said that they considered these actions (benching him, making these public statements) to be undue and illegal pressure to make him renew. Barcelona backed off, he stayed at the club and played. What a coincidence!

barcelona told that players for the future will play, which makes sense. i dont know any rule that makes you put on the pitch a player who will leave. it is more than natural to try to play as much as possible a youngster of another player with contract. it will NEVER stand in a court.
xavi used him little by little because we needed to make sure we got a champions league spot.

besides, you forget who is the main responsable of this mess: SISSOKO
again... i dont know if i can post it but...
https://www.elconfidencial.com/depo...dembele-barcelona-representante-xavi_3453565/
and article from "elconfidencial" (not very fans of barça) talking about him and the situation from this week.

btw, not the best day to talk about ethics for a real madrid fan after what happened to pablo laso yesterday tbh

You should learn to read better.

I said Laporta will try his best find legal solutions to get rid of huge wages of the players, such as selling and agreeing wage cuts, which is understandable.

My other point was, Laporta will use the Madia to create a narrative that " the player/s are not accepting wage cuts to help the club alleviate the financial crisis), and again that's also normal and expected.

In my last point, I mentioned that if for example De Jong decides not to accept a transfer to United, and not agree to wage cuts, then Barcelona cannot do anything about it and will have to pay De Jong accordingly, again, I am not saying this will happen, but it's also a possibility.

you said "legal" solution, no legal solutions. it sounds very different, at least in my culture it is not the same.

de jong can do what he pleases, but he wont be hated whatever happens. i wouldnt say the same about other players.

 

[Pretzels81]

Hoeness said some 15 years ago it's just a matter of time before the bailiff closes madrid's bernabeu. So maybe they are tired of waiting there and moved to camp nou? Now they can wait infront of the camp nou for 15 years for it to close down, meanwhile spanish teams continue to win trophies.

Did he say that while he was in prison?
FC Hollywood Munchen remains the most hated club in Germany.

 

[Devil_forever]

Bayern have always been a bunch of self-righteous cnuts when it comes to the finances because they've had to watch Italian, Spanish, English and now French teams out spend them consistently for big name players.

I mean they have zero financial debt and the top 3/4 revenues in world football but they’re stingy. They’re very sensible in the transfer market and deploy some bully tactics to get prices of players down or players to run down their contracts and sign on a free.

 

[OmarUnited4ever]

you said "legal" solution, no legal solutions. it sounds very different, at least in my culture it is not the same.

de jong can do what he pleases, but he wont be hated whatever happens. i wouldnt say the same about other players.

the quotation marks were used for emphasis on the solution being legal, but I get why it was misunderstood.

As for Barca fans, they may not view De Jong negatively if he decides to stay and not accept wage reduction, and if that happens, I will not be surprised if Laporta uses the media to portray De Jong as the villain

 

[cyberman]

Sorry but Bayern are just being difficult here to teach Lewa and Barca a lesson. Nobody in their right mind believes that Barca will go out of business within a year or two ffs.

By all accounts they’re banking on being La Liga champions and getting to CL quarter finals to get through the year. Another season like last year apparently spells disaster simply because of the reduced income from now on

 

[Rooney in Paris]

Sorry, 8.

i dont know if i can post links (but you can do a quick google search):
https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...ester-united-glazer-dividend-payment-24309957

11M pounds for the glazers (well, mostly them) this month.

So, just to clarify, you're saying that a club being fecked by debt due to terrible mismanagement over several years is the same as one where the owners are taking dividends from their well run business?

I don't like the Glazers for what it's worth and hate the way they've run the club from a cultural perspective... but that's some Olympic level mental gymnastics there.

 

[crossy1686]

They're in massive trouble. You can see why they were so desperate for that Super League money.

Expecting this to raise its head again soon. Chelsea’s new American owners wouldn’t have splurged £4b on a club unless they think there’s a chance they’re in for some big money down the line.

 

[crossy1686]

I mean they have zero financial debt and the top 3/4 revenues in world football but they’re stingy. They’re very sensible in the transfer market and deploy some bully tactics to get prices of players down or players to run down their contracts and sign on a free.

They have to do that in order to maintain the status they currently do. It’s smart, it makes sense and it’s cheaper than spending £1b over 3 seasons. That all changes if the Bundesliga ever got the influx of cash the PL gets. But they act like they’re the moral compass of the footballing world whenever finances are discussed. They’d bend over backwards to sign a Haaland if they could afford to.

 

[FCBarcelona]

So, just to clarify, you're saying that a club being fecked by debt due to terrible mismanagement over several years is the same as one where the owners are taking dividends from their well run business?

I don't like the Glazers for what it's worth and hate the way they've run the club from a cultural perspective... but that's some Olympic level mental gymnastics there.

i say that barça has to sell a small part of their future incomes until their maturity (around 5% for now) to pay the debt a CRIMINAL generated. the advantage is that once it is paid, we are "free".

i say that united pays a dividend (so they sell their current are future incomes to the owners) and i think they have a HORRIBLE management. they are not criminals like bartomeu, but they have run their business very very very badly from my point of view. they have generated 0 value by themselves and they have let other teams with less resources to overcome them (set aside unfair competition from dictatorship teams that Premier League welcomes as soon as they can). they are getting paid for getting a big club to the irrelevance and barely winning anything in a decade.

we can start a debate about ownership models in football and in and outs but i would honestly take 1000 times barcelona's current situation over united's.

the quotation marks were used for emphasis on the solution being legal, but I get why it was misunderstood.

As for Barca fans, they may not view De Jong negatively if he decides to stay and not accept wage reduction, and if that happens, I will not be surprised if Laporta uses the media to portray De Jong as the villain

sorry then, as 99% os the messages talk about "bullies" etc, i was implying the same.

nah, that's not gonna happen with de jong. in fact, many fans are sad that among players that might leave for financial purposes, de jong is the chosen one instead of other "rats" (that is how some other players are called). in any case is just a way to make people understand that we need to sell because barto criminal actions and that we have a new salary limits to respect. nothing against frenkie.

 

[Andycoleno9]

I give up from understanding this situation. They are without money, they beg their own players to accept lower contracts but they still signed two free highly rated players and they want to buy 3 players for 200 mil and give them huge contract.

feck me, this is like twilight zone

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

I give up from understanding this situation. They are without money, they beg their own players to accept lower contracts but they still signed two free highly rated players and they want to buy 3 players for 200 mil and give them huge contract.

Some of the issues Barcelona have are restrictions due to 'Spanish FFP,' they are somewhat artificial.

 

[FCBarcelona]

I give up from understanding this situation. They are without money, they beg their own players to accept lower contracts but they still signed two free highly rated players and they want to buy 3 players for 200 mil and give them huge contract.

feck me, this is like twilight zone

debt != cash. barça's main issue has been LaLiga FFP rules (not even Champions League rules). main issue in order to have sport maneuravility. debt is huge but having a huge debt does not mean that you need to sell everything you have now at any price or that you cannot buy things.

you dont understand that we are going to spend 200M (by spending i obviously mean out-in) because we are not going to.

the contracts are not "huge". well, are huge because they are good footballers, but a new salary scheme was introduced and it is being enforced. so they will be paid well and they will be paid a fair market salary, that's all.