I remember people here mocking the idea that VVD should win it over Messi back when it took place. Still it's really hard to make a jugdement call when you are comparing a CB to a Forward who's good at everything.
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Ballon d'Or 2021 | Lewandowski robbed again
- Thread starter Samid
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I remember people here mocking the idea that VVD should win it over Messi back when it took place. Still it's really hard to make a jugdement call when you are comparing a CB to a Forward who's good at everything.
The Ballon d'Or is essentially worthless in determining a players standing in the game, there are so many political aspects to deciding the winner and such blatant campaigning involved that it is effectively as much value as a participation trophy. The only awards that matter in a team sport like football are trophies and league titles and I would imagine most players given the option of trading 1 title for winning the Ballon d'Or every year of their career would choose the title every time. It is not a serious event and needs to be treated with the disdain it deserves.
2010
. Messi was two or three tiers above the next best player that year. Imagine arguing against an absolute prime Messi, he was getting 10/10 performances match after match that year.Same for 2019 Messi btw, his individual performances rivaled any of his best years, 2015, 2012, 2010... you name it, he was just as good. Too bad he was surrounded by the current Barca team that we know how they are doing nowadays without him...
No, he wasn't. Messi destroyed him in the fist leg. When VVD's teammates like Mane say Messi deserves it over VVD you know your post is absolute nonsense.
If Messi had the same season as Lewandowski would this thread by claiming robbery? I doubt it. I get it, the standards are high.
Messi in 2018 finished 5th, and he had more goals and assists than Lewandowski has in 2021, and there was no outrage then. Messi wasn't being a hoe and liking derogatory posts about his rivals on Instagram, and his ex teammates weren't making 7 minute Instagram videos discrediting his rivals either.
Messi in 2018 finished 5th, and he had more goals and assists than Lewandowski has in 2021, and there was no outrage then. Messi wasn't being a hoe and liking derogatory posts about his rivals on Instagram, and his ex teammates weren't making 7 minute Instagram videos discrediting his rivals either.
Ronaldo was generally much better than Messi in 2018. He was only inconsistent in the first half of the season (2017) which doesn’t count towards the 2018 Ballon D’or. Even then, he set a record for scoring in every CL game even though he wasn’t scoring in la liga. In 2018 as a whole, or at least from January - July (basically the time period Messi won this year’s award for) he had much better impact than Messi in the biggest competitions.
Because he wasn’t very impactful in the biggest games in 2018, particularly in the CL. That was the year Barca bottled against Roma in the QFs.
Sorry but I have to chuckle at this. Viewed through Ronnie goggles mate. There’s too much bitterness and moving of the goalposts, particularly from the Madrid fan who seems to be taking it poorly.
It’s just an award based on the opinion of some journalists from across the globe, it shouldn’t affect anyone’s appreciation for their preferred talent, and it definitely shouldn’t generate the level of salt and bitterness I’m seeing.
He wasn’t..
So Lewandowski's 41 goals in 29 games is irrelevant, because it's only Bundesliga, but Messi's goals and assists against Ecuador and Bolivia at Copa America are super important? Rrrright.
Yep, people acting like it was some outrageous decision
Would anyone have been furious if Lewandowski won it? No, I don't think so. He'd be deserving as well.
At the end, international tournaments (and the UCL) weigh heavily in these awards. Everyone knows that. It's the reason Chelsea had so many players nominated and won best club side. Don't know why people are acting so OTT outraged.
And Lewandowski's form last year is irrelevant (they should never have cancelled the awards in the first place) and much of Messi's Ligue 1 form after voting closed, is also irrelevant. The bigger issue with this award is also it gives the impression of it's based on a "calendar" year, when in fact, anyone dominating individually from Jan to May, and winning the big trophies is (almost) a shoe in. Your form at the start of each season (to October when voting closes - i think?), when no big prizes are decided weigh very little. Or else Salah would be a favorite.
While Lewandowski's form last year might be formally irrelevant in the voting process, it is relevant to the growing perception that Ballon d'Or is a joke. Lewandowski has been super dominant for two years now and he has jack shit to show for it in terms of Ballon d'Or.
It creates much stronger narrative against the award than it would if he was dominant for just half a year.
This is the reason lot of people are questioning the ballon d'or. How can someone be the absolute best individually yet doesn't generate any fear to top teams anymore?
Yes it is, for probably 1 billion people in america or other latin countries. Messi winning the COPA against Brazil made the news all over the world, it was huge. I'm not sure it was the same for Lewa breaking Muller's record on a saturday afternoon against Augsburg. You guys don't understand what the COPA means for a LOT of people right? This thread displays record breaking levels of self-centeredness.
Which in any case, Messi completely destroyed that liverpool defense in the first leg. Yet when VVD team’s attack destroyed Messi’s team defense in the 2nd leg, somehow it translated to VVD being better than Messi for these CR7 50cents army
He was very very good not unbeatable. They didn’t win the league so it was not a perfect season. Hard to compare CB with a forward but I recall even VVD admitted that Messi was the superior player.
He was. By a large margin.
He was. It's the season where Barcelona only lost one game in the league, that was all about Messi. He was quite easily the best performer that season.
By a large margin? I struggle to remember which big games Messi turned up for in 2018. Yes, he was there to slay and set goalscoring and assist records against the mighty Eibar and Betis but at the same time he was being humiliated by the likes of Roma in the CL QFs.
Ronaldo was setting records in the CL and having iconic performances against the likes of Juve and Spain in the World Cup. He was also decisive against PSG in both legs of their KO tie. I can’t think of one memorable game Messi had in 2018 on the level of those Ronaldo ones I mentioned during the Ballon D’or voting period.
Yes, by a large margin. Your subjective opinion of what makes a memorable game has no relevance regarding dominance.
Messi was the top scorer, top assister, has most MOTM awards, won the European golden shoe for a record 5th (out of 6 times), created the most chances of anyone in Europe, played the highest number of key passes.
I can certainly remember to Ronaldo in the semi finals and final of the Champions League stinking up the place in the biggest games and luckily for him, he had Bale saving him in the biggest game of the season. But I digress. Messi was miles ahead of Ronaldo in 2018.
It’s not subjective to say that decisive performances against European powerhouses holds more weight than racking up goals and assists against minnows in the league - teams that Barca likely beat without Messi anyway. Messi in 2018 was mostly a flat-track bully. He struggled in every big game Barca/Argentina played. Yes, Ronaldo didn’t turn up against Bayern in the semis or in the final but he still had more decisive performances in Europe’s premier competition, finishing top scorer with 15 goals (a record only bettered by himself) and also topscorer a record 7th time and 6th(!) in a row. He was then crowed UEFA forward of the season. He also had a better World Cup than Messi.
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They cancelled last years award. This years award was given over a specified time period. I don’t understand how “not considering” his prior year form makes the award a joke.
There are plenty of other inconsistencies and reasons to criticise the awards for. I just don’t understand the uproar over messi winning it. He was quite immense and won the Copa. We all know international tournaments and the UCL wins weigh heavily in this. Had Lewandowski won it, it would be ok as well. But people are acting like Messi had no right to be top 5, let alone win it, they way they’re acting.
I struggle to remember which big games Lewa turned up for in 2021. Yes, he was there to slay and set goalscoring records against the mighty Hertha and Union Berlin but at the same time his team embarrassingly finished bottom of a group that had Slovakia and Sweden in the Euros.
Messi was setting records with Argentina and producing an iconic tournament performance in the Copa America and Copa del rey final.
Bundesliga wasn't this dominated by Bayern until the 21th century, before that they had the same amount of different champions as the English first division in the same period.
The favouritism Bayern got was due to Bosman ruling and globalization (as they could sell the Bayern product abroad to make bank).
I don't think Bayern will be this dominant in Germany once Neuer, Lewandowski, and Müller retire.
Let's not forget that Bayern got this dominant after they snatched Lewandowski from Dortmund.
I didn't know Sadio Mane had a say on the ballon dor voting process. What I do know is that Messi barely beat him by less than 10 points that year. Hardly a "clear cut" win as the Messi cultists would have you believe.
Bit more than that actually. He partnered with Matip and prevented Barca from scoring the single goal that would've put them through. So if they are evens that year, then obviously him getting the better of Messi and then going on to win the whole thing should make the difference. Or do major trophies no longer count for you guys when it goes against Messi?
It's funny though, Copa America was never used as a factor in Ballon D'Or, and it will never be again. It will only be used in 2021.. weird huh. Vidal won back to back Copas in 15 and 16 and was a beast in Juventus but never got a top10 nomination. So, is it important for Ballon D'or or not?
Unless vvd won it and then refused to accept the award, it means nothing. They just won the CL and came within 1 point of the league title. They are on a high. Why would they moan about him not winning it,v especially in one of the closest races in years?
messi’s reason was still better than VVD’s that year. VVD had voted taken away from him because he played on a far more balanced team. If VVD’s own teammates say Messi deserved it over him I don’t know what else to tell you.
Messi absolutely carried that Barca team.
what a ridiculous statement. If anything that would make moan more if they felt it was an injustice.
was Vidal Chile’s best player in those years and set all time Copa records?
Didn’t think so, dumb analogy
I personally don't get the clamouring for Lewandowski. Great player but scoring 40 goals in the Bundesliga for a dominant Bayern team isn't really impressive, Sancho got close to 20 goals 2 years ago and he struggles to buy a goal in the league for us. Bayern got dumped out of the CL, so it's only really the Bundesliga you're falling back on. The case for Lewa really is for the previous year, but in this one there's nothing particularly impressive about what Lewa did.
Each to his own. I thought Messi was a better player that season. Goals galore. Neat assists. His usual great dribbling. Great freekicks. VVD was a rock at the back though.
Saying that a performance is more "impressive" when it isn't backed by statistics is subjective. Calling Messi a "flat track" bully is subjective as well.
The only facts are that Messi was the highest scorer and top assister, getting more goals and assists than Ronaldo. Ergo....he was much better than Ronaldo in 2018, as I pointed out.
If you have something to rebut with, I'll be here. Talking about UEFA "forward of the season" awards is so laughable, it feels as if you're a Messi fan in disguise trying to get everyone to laugh at Ronaldo.
I think you don't know what the word literally means.
Another gifted one after 2010, 2012 and 2019. It's really pathetic they gifted him another one.
2010 was probably the biggest robbery in the history. Wesley Sneijder was playing the football of his life, and was clearly the leader of Inter. His Inter also beated Messi team - Barcelona. Snejder also scored in that match, and where was Messi in that match?
His Argentina team was trashed big time by Germany by 4-0.
The golden ball maybe individual award, but it's all about your contribution to the team. Winning a Copa being second tier in the La Liga, 10th tier in the World Cup, and third tier in CL, should be enough to not be in the top 3.
Sneijder that year won a historical treble with Inter, their first in the history, and it was long, long time since they won CL. Also he was one of the best players in the World Cup and lead his team Netherlands to the finals. And they would have win if it wasn't for terrible scoring ability of Robben, as Sneijder gives him like 2-3 perfect assistance in 1 vs 1 situation with the GK, and Robben was missing them terrible.
Their changing their perspective, just to suit their agenda. To be completely fair, that year Messi didn't deserve to in the top 3, as Xavi and Iniesta deserved to be there.
Scoring goals in a league where teams play wide open, and don't know what defense is, shouldn't award you Golden Ball.
2012 they gift him another one, for missing a penalty against a team of Chelsea that played 10 man all match, and he was invisible in both matches, and they get trashed out of the tournament by 10 man team, thanks his penalty miss pretty much.
He also get trashed by Ronaldo's Real Madrid that year. All he won was the precious Copa, that no one cares.
Don't want to even started with 2019 and 2021, where he doesn't have any business in the top 3.
Great player with 4 gifted Golden Balls, that he clearly didn't deserve.
He is obviously a media protégé and trying to build him as GOAT, which to me at least he will never end up there, because of the factors i admit. And today the media GOAT made another great appearance for PSG.
2010 was probably the biggest robbery in the history. Wesley Sneijder was playing the football of his life, and was clearly the leader of Inter. His Inter also beated Messi team - Barcelona. Snejder also scored in that match, and where was Messi in that match?
His Argentina team was trashed big time by Germany by 4-0.
The golden ball maybe individual award, but it's all about your contribution to the team. Winning a Copa being second tier in the La Liga, 10th tier in the World Cup, and third tier in CL, should be enough to not be in the top 3.
Sneijder that year won a historical treble with Inter, their first in the history, and it was long, long time since they won CL. Also he was one of the best players in the World Cup and lead his team Netherlands to the finals. And they would have win if it wasn't for terrible scoring ability of Robben, as Sneijder gives him like 2-3 perfect assistance in 1 vs 1 situation with the GK, and Robben was missing them terrible.
Their changing their perspective, just to suit their agenda. To be completely fair, that year Messi didn't deserve to in the top 3, as Xavi and Iniesta deserved to be there.
Scoring goals in a league where teams play wide open, and don't know what defense is, shouldn't award you Golden Ball.
2012 they gift him another one, for missing a penalty against a team of Chelsea that played 10 man all match, and he was invisible in both matches, and they get trashed out of the tournament by 10 man team, thanks his penalty miss pretty much.
He also get trashed by Ronaldo's Real Madrid that year. All he won was the precious Copa, that no one cares.
Don't want to even started with 2019 and 2021, where he doesn't have any business in the top 3.
Great player with 4 gifted Golden Balls, that he clearly didn't deserve.
He is obviously a media protégé and trying to build him as GOAT, which to me at least he will never end up there, because of the factors i admit. And today the media GOAT made another great appearance for PSG.
That's probably what you'd have done if Messi lost, let's be honest.
I don't understand what it is you don't understand
If the award doesn't reflect the reality of the last two years, it undermines its legitimacy more than if it wouldn't reflect only half a year. The longer the lie is sustained, the worse it gets.Well, Messi wouldn't be in my top5 so I guess I'm one of those people. I think he played very similar season to CR7, so he should be around the same place.
That's exactly the argument though - that it's a popularity contest. You just confirmed it, so we're in agreement then. I'm completely fine with Messi winning the award as long as it is universally acknowledged that the award is not about merit, but about popularity. I'm not giving anybody an award based on merit for scoring against Ecuador and Bolivia.
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