The idea that he disappointed for Poland is frankly baffling. He was one of the best players of the group stages, only let down by his teammates. The goals he scored were phenomenal.
Ballon d'Or 2021 | Lewandowski robbed again
- Thread starter Samid
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) look forward to a new life under Ruben Amorim. What system will we be playing? What players will impress? and how will it all go? We also say goodbye to Ruud Van Nistelrooy and review United's 3-0 win at home against Leicester City.
The idea that he disappointed for Poland is frankly baffling. He was one of the best players of the group stages, only let down by his teammates. The goals he scored were phenomenal.
Yeah, its quite odd, i frequently see people post on various platforms "but he did nothing with Poland!" and i don't know why, he did more than decent, given what he had.
Which leads me to believe almost no one watched a single game of Poland in the Euros.
Almost nobody knows what the 'most assists in a season' record is, let alone cares.
Messi had a dogshit performance in that year's little summer tournament, the World Cup (1 goal, 2 assists, his team won 1 game), and was outscored (and out "assisted") by like 8 people in the Champions League, that's why he came in fifth.
It’s pure revisionism that people are now claiming Messi deserved the 2018 BDOR. I remember scouring the the Barca forum around that time and they were all fearing Ronaldo’s imminent 6th which as we know never came. Messi’s 2018 was similar to his 2012 year in that he scored plenty but was never really decisive in any big game.
I personally never claimed that he deserved it only that he wasnt the 5th best player in the world that year.
Well it was a WC year which was what took precedence. In another year, he probably would’ve finished a couple places higher but it wasn’t really a special year by him. I’d say 5th wasn’t that outrageous considering the names ahead and what they did that year.
Imagine not having 9 Ballon d'Or and not crying about it and making outrage everywhere on the internet
This list is funny because if you think about Messi's seasons and compare them to his goals+assists numbers you'd probably conclude that they're not very correlated.Imagine not having 9 Ballon d'Or and not crying about it and making outrage everywhere on the internet
That's a show of individual performance, team trophies are team trophies.
Ronaldo first years's cabinet trophy at Madrid was empty cause Barcelona was a better team than Real Madrid back then, not because Ronaldo didn't perform.
Ronaldo isn't winning shit either with this rubbish United side, and i think he is doing alright individually.
He also probably isn't qualifying for the next WC, but aside from the last games against Ireland and Serbia (where he had very poor games), i can't blame him for that, cause Portugal looks super disjointed , and talented player like Jota, Bruno,Cancelo, and Diaz have been useless and underwhelming under the Portugal t-shirt.
People should stop judging player's quality/season based on trophy cabinet.
It's incredible, isn't it? I mean, this image is all that is needed to cancel out the humongous faux outrage that has taken the internet by storm on Messi's win. People just can't handle factos.
It shows that football is team sport and being the best performing player in the world does not mean your team automatically win everything. Did Ronaldo win La liga and CL in his best ever year 2013? Did Lewa won the CL in his best ever year 2021?
Finally a sensible take in this thread
I'm not talking about their team trophies. I'm talking about their actual performances.
It could mean that. But it could also mean that the number of goals+assists you have in a season doesn't actually determine how good you were.
Last edited:
Now I've heard it allI don’t think he was robbed. I think either were worthy winners. If he had won it would be well deserved as is Messi.
He was definitely robbed last year though. Why did they cancel the award? The football didn’t, it was merely postponed for a short while during the year and then carried on.
Sure, don’t hold a ceremony because of covid but they can still announce the award.
He was definitely robbed last year though. Why did they cancel the award? The football didn’t, it was merely postponed for a short while during the year and then carried on.
Sure, don’t hold a ceremony because of covid but they can still announce the award.
It's always an interesting insight into strange human behaviour. By that I mean the way grown men idolise other grown men to the point where they actually get upset when the men they idolise don't win awards.
That's not an attack, I find it genuinely interesting from a psychological point of view as to why people exhibit such creepy behaviour towards famous people online.
That's not an attack, I find it genuinely interesting from a psychological point of view as to why people exhibit such creepy behaviour towards famous people online.
You can see what I'm talking about if you actually look at a list of "goals+assists per calendar year" instead of relying on an infographic that merely tells you who topped it.
Look at this 2017 list. did the Balon D'Or committee rob Edinson Cavani? Was Ronaldo's 2017 award (when he came 11th in goals+assists overall) the biggest fraud perpetrated on football?
If you go by this infographic, 2009 Messi, the one who danced around United in a CL final, was considerably worse than Messi two seasons ago. Does anyone actually believe that? Anyone think United would have fared much worse in 2009 if Messi had been replaced by his 32-year-old version?
Last edited:
The whole Ballon d'Or is a joke. 2021 is not even over yet. How can you give an award for 2021 when the year 2021 isn't even over yet?
They should at least make the effort to bring the award presentation to February/March/April of next year so that all the players can be correctly gauged based on their full year's performance.
Messi has only scored 1 league goal for PSG so far and his performance is certainly not Ballon d'Or worthy based on 2021. Also, his performance is not really that good for Argentina in the Copa America. He basically disappeared for the most part and largely disappoint in the semis and finals and it was his teammates who helped him to win the cup.
They should at least make the effort to bring the award presentation to February/March/April of next year so that all the players can be correctly gauged based on their full year's performance.
Messi has only scored 1 league goal for PSG so far and his performance is certainly not Ballon d'Or worthy based on 2021. Also, his performance is not really that good for Argentina in the Copa America. He basically disappeared for the most part and largely disappoint in the semis and finals and it was his teammates who helped him to win the cup.
It's an individual award for a team sport. You can't separate individual performance from team success
I don't follow that point, players are judged on a 12 month period anyway, from October to October. Moving the award presentation to February or later changes nothing.
Since when are they judged on a 12 month period from October to October? Please show proof.
Put it this way: would Bayern Munich be a better team with Messi? Would City? Liverpool?
Of the 3 best teams on Earth, currently Lewandowski is the best player on one and would immediately be the best player on and improve the other 2
Messi? He'd arguably make all 3 worse
Voting closes end of October
What proof do you need? Votes have closed late october-early november most years, logic dictates that the period judged every year is from the end of votes. Particularly when there is no mention of calendar year in the rules.
Yes, they would be. City was after Messi and you can be sure as well Bayern and Liverpool would be as well if he was affordable for them.
You forget that used to Messi run as much as he currently does for Pep's Barca as well. And that team is still considered the best of all the elite tems of modern football.
City could have signed Messi, yet didn't sign Messi. In fact, they chased Kane instead. Neither did Bayern or Liverpool, they weren't even interested
As for how much Messi "used to" run, that's both wrong and irrelevant. We're talking about 2021 here, not 2011
He had a bad final, but he didn't have a bad semi-final. He had an assist for the Argentina goal, scored his penalty. He had a very good game.
Reading all the outrage you'd think it was Lingard who won the Ballon d'Or
Of course Messi would improve City, his competition would be Mahrez and Gabriel Jesus... while both are very good players, Messi is still level above both. He's also a match for any Bayern winger. He wouldn't bench Salah though, at least not for me. At Liverpool I'd put him in the Firminio role, of dropping and linking play. He's be an assist machine for Salah.
But the 30 men shortlist were chosen at the start of Oct.
Starting from Oct don't make much sense anyway as they will miss out on stats from Aug and Sept 2020 (only start from Oct 2020) and then abruptly end on Oct 2021 as well. How can one call it BDor 2021 when the whole year is not done yet?
It's named after the year during which it is given, it's not deeper than that. And you lose nothing because every month is include in the previous or following edition, as it would regardless of the month you pick whether it is January, June or October.
Messi being individually better in a vacuum does not mean he would be better for those teams
No player in the world skews a team's play and personnell as much as Messi
Again, it is rather telling that despite Messi being available, your club, run by Beguiristain and coached by Guardiola, was more interested in Kane
Its not true though we were after Messi for 2 years, in the end we couldn't afford him. In fact Messi would fix a huge hole at City which is currently goal scoring. His lack of work rate would easily be offset by putting him on the rw with Jesus in the middle and Foden on the left. What we'd lose in terms of press we'd gain in keeping the ball even more and cutting edge.
The idea that Messi has somehow become a passenger and a hinderance is nonsense. Just compare the same Barca team without him
At Liverpool you’re going from 20 pressures a game with Jota or Firmino to 4 or 5 with Messi, in a style reliant on pressing. Klopp wouldn’t bother with Messi.
He had the greatest Copa America in its history.
by far. Ronaldo was a ghost in many CL finals but still won ballon dors.
Messi was easily Argentina’s best player in the tourney.
I think you're being a little bit dishonest right now. If it had been clear from the start that Messi would leave Barca, he'd be at City right now.
Moreover, Lewandowski isn't exactly a role model at pressing either. He even has less pressures per game than Messi.
By the way, if I remember correctly you're a big fan of Mbappe who runs even less than Messi - is he also unsuitable for top level football?
Goodness sake can’t believe this debate is still on
Guys common now
Guys common now
Glad there's only absolute experts voting.