No no. Show that excessive kind of frustration when you've got your own house in order. As simple as. Berbatov often has a tendency to take the frustration that he's feeling about his own game on those around him. Nani has been consistently superior to Berbatov for awhile now, yet he gets a lot of flak from Berbatov. Believe me, if Ronaldo did the same, Nani would take the advice in a better way. It's human nature. I'm not talking about stature, I'm talking about on field performance. You play well, you earn respect. You earn respect, your opinion means more. That's life.
Bad Berba's Back
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I'd again like to add that stature was not what I was talking about. Rooney getting frustrated with his team mates given his own game being as rubbish as it is would be hilarious and plain wrong.
Agreed, and I reckon it's a problem a few of our players have. Maybe they sort it out later, or talk about it who knows, but it's rubbish seeing it on the pitch.
I'm still not sure I understand the scenario's correctly, or the point above.
Are you saying it would be laughable for Wayne to get frustrated given his poor form, because he's been doing that anyway....
I must say those stats of Berbatov at Spurs have thrown me off a little. 73 goals created/scored in 101 games is a brilliant return. Didn't expect that.
I'm saying that it would laughable for Wayne to throw tantrums at other players getting things wrong on the pitch when his own game is so poor.
But he does do that. There's no 'would' about it. In his last run of poor games I've seen him berate Nani several times. One was performing, the other wasn't.
Ah fair enough. Then I don't think it's right. I'm just applying this as a rule I believe in if you must.
I know, and it's silly to argue over individual bits like this.
I just think it's something not limited to Berbatov, but only ever seems to be mentioned in connection with Berbatov, and that's unfair on him. I agree he hasn't performed to our high-expectations, I also think he should be given time, but that's debatable for others, the point is he gets a harsh rep for a lot of things on here, and that doesn't need to be the stick to beat him with, when it's a trait in several players.
I just think it's something not limited to Berbatov, but only ever seems to be mentioned in connection with Berbatov, and that's unfair on him. I agree he hasn't performed to our high-expectations, I also think he should be given time, but that's debatable for others, the point is he gets a harsh rep for a lot of things on here, and that doesn't need to be the stick to beat him with, when it's a trait in several players.
Strip out his 12? Donkey Euro Cup Goals and his record is the same as it was at Tottenham.
Fans always say...'he played much better at Spurs' but how often did anyone actually watch Spurs week in and week out!
So according to you we shuld just give a player an infinite number of chances and indulge them forever. In that case never sell a player who does not want to leave and offer them contracts for life.
But wait on every chance you hope and indulge a player who is not performing you are denying someone else.
The real issue is the opportunity cost.
Yes it is because:
a) His experience will help in a team whose success will depend on the development of youth.
b) People forget how good a squad player he could be. I reckon he could be a cracking backup as he ages. He could be our Giggs/Scholes 5 years from now
Tha argument for keeping Berba because of his experience is just plain dumb. What does he offer? Tantrums? Suly nature - yes that's a trait we should encourage in our youth. His experience in what exactly? Winning titles? Dealing with pressure?
As to your second point no chance in hell. Comparing him to devloping and changing his game like Giggs and Scholes is just hogwash.
Damn Commadus, you've really gone back to hating the lad
As for on the pitch he offers a lot. I don't see anything inconceivable about him doing a giggs at least till 32. Maybe not as well but a similar role in the squad. He does have ability you know?
As for off the pitch, we don't know what kind of relationship he has with his teammates off the pitch. Don't read so much into those tantrums on the pitch. It's fairly clear thay despite his tantrums ronaldo had a big brother effect on all the Latin based players in our team. He was someone they looked up to despite his at times annoying on field persona.
Hate? Where is the hate? You should read my posts - in this thread and others. I don't hate the guy its his fans. Heck I even said offer him a extended contract. It's the absurd logic his fans use to justify his inclusion I maintain as I have sad umpteen times now he is a good player but heck keep your feet on the ground.
YOu used to be one too, come back to the dark side Boss.
Does 'Given time' sound like infinite number of chances to you?
Given time because we know he is quality, and has the ability to be up there. Time to adapt to our time, not 5 years, but another season or so, as I said earlier.
He does not have the same ability, record, mental strength etc as Giggs so any comparison to him doing a Giggs is in your mind.
He had tantrums at Tottenham. Off the pitch from what i can gather he is unassuming. How would a player look up to Berba after he berates them and then doesnt offer much. Ronaldo could get away with his hysterionics as he performed. You earn respect and Berba will have to earn respect of the youngsters.
Hater? Nah, I was rooting for the lad to do good things last season after he had his first pre season at the club but he disappointed me greatly. This season, well at the start he was fantastic, I was pinching myself, unfortunately he's lost that form but he's not playing ad badly or prolonged as people say.
What about the opportunity cost? Every opportunity we give Berba denies development time for another player.
Berba at his age should be at his peak - SAF mentioned a players peak tends to be from 27-30.
So you would give Berba until the end of his contract to develop. Well you would have to make the decision of keeping him on before that.
I'm not saying he's as good as Giggs. But on the pitch, given that he isn't reliant on pace as such, I don't see any reason why it isn't possible for him to become a very good squad player. In fact, if anything, he might just thrive not being one of the main men.
Regarding the second bit, I've already said the same thing to Hectic as you have. But off the pitch maybe he is helping out the youngsters and maybe he does have a good effect on the squad. I don't know really. None of us do.
Good point Amol, I remember Welbeck talking about how amazing he is in training, he's probably somebody the youngsters look up to
I agree.
As to a squad player - unless he takes a wage cut I don't think we will be happy paying £100k a week for someone playing 20 odd matches with little guarantee of impact.
If we can get him on a pay as you play contract then that would be ideal.
Yes, I would keep him on, and give him opportunities to play. You don't think a player can hit his peak after that age? He doesn't even have to reach his peak, just attain consistency, and that will only be achieved through games.
Had he scored 3-4 goals more to his tally, you would be saying the same thing.
In the same sense that we give Rooney time, and opportunities despite having a baron period each and every season, because we know he can do better and in the long run, the youngsters are still going to get their opportunities.
I hope so. However, that could just mean that his ability in training is exceptional rather than how helpful he is with youngsters.
I'll tell you what though, Berbatov is walking a fine line. You need only listen to Phelan at the end of last season and you can tell that key people at the club had just had about enough of his shit. Statements like "we know he can play better then this" shouldn't be interpreted as, we'll give him as much time as he likes. Its a statement more like we'll give a chance, but we've had a gutfull of the way he's been playing. We cannot afford to wait around for him to suddenly come good. I'd love to know why he was dropped on the weekend.
It all depends on so many factors. I've just put out a possibility. A lot depends on how his game matures, what kind of person he is etc But if this is the best we're going to see from him, I hope what I've said happens.
marchi-91, any inside comments on this one, what's your interpretation of this?
Ok so we keep him on but on his current wages?
In an ideal world, no. I could accept current wages for another season though.
I still think he will have a good season this season though, so I'm probably in a minority here.
I think we have come to a similar conclusion using different logic. In no way would I sell him in January unless something exceptional happened ie we had a very good offer and we have a replacement lined up - freakin very little chance.
At the end of the season I would decide to keep him and offer him a 2 year extension on a Pay as you play contract. Or something that is tied more to his performance than just a set wage. If he loves the club as much as he says then he will not object to this.
I'd agree with that, the similar conclusion bit anyway.
I think I have more faith in his ability - you don't, but have allowed for chance that he might come good
What's your hopes for him this season, target wise in terms of goals?
I think I have more faith in his ability - you don't, but have allowed for chance that he might come good
What's your hopes for him this season, target wise in terms of goals?
I did, actually. And I was one of the few who didn't want him at United.
I posted it before 15 EPL goals would be fair. He got 12 and 15 at Tottenham and 12 last year for us so about 15 would be a fair target.
The target is a quantitative measure but is part of a qualititative assessment of Berba which can happen at the end of the season.
This is almost a copy and paste of what Ibra's agent said before he was shipped off to Milan.
Well, if Sir Alex said that Berbatov wouldn't leave you would tell us that he said the same about Veron. If you don't believe what managers and agents say, just refrain from reading their comments.
Berba has/will have a good season. He's a victim of his style of play. He hasn't been poor for more than 2-3 games. People mention 8-9 scoreless games, but he was excellent in those and definitely not as bad as people make of it. And definitely not a reason to ship him out.
Instead, remember at the beginning of this season Park was poor, Scholes had a good start and faded, Fletcher has not been himself.
This thread is a joke. Bad Berba is back after 2-3 poor games? Jeez
Instead, remember at the beginning of this season Park was poor, Scholes had a good start and faded, Fletcher has not been himself.
This thread is a joke. Bad Berba is back after 2-3 poor games? Jeez
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