I've seen many Nani and Park, dying for a striker to get on the end of it.
Bad Berba's Back
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I've seen many Nani and Park, dying for a striker to get on the end of it.
In the Fletcher thread it's the strikers fault, in the Berba thread it's the midfielders fault, perhaps both are just playing poorly right now.
Even Stam quailed.
The most simple answer.....
When does enough become enough though Evra? He's into his third season now and if we're being honest he has massively underperformed whilst he's been at the club.
I do think he'll be back to his best before long but I wouldn't be surprised if he was sold at the end of the season.
I really really disagree with this excuse. If Berbatov was a poacher then fair enough but he isn't. In fact the argument used in Berbatov's favour time and time again is that he's not about the goals.
It just doesn't wash.
For me, after witnessing Berbs since his start, the thing is Berbs for me has always wanted to be at the center of things, he wants to dictate the game, he seems more of a playmaker than a out and out striker.
Things that have made Berbs uncomfortable was the Cantona comparisons, same skill and touch people will make out but the influence, the work rate the class is still totally different. Berbatovs influence if more of a negative mould, scolding team mates, making little effort to help the team or find the right space at times... Also another huge thing I'm sure most have missed out is his lack of ability to drop wide and cross the ball which we'd expect all our forwards should be able to produce.
Berbatov isn't a bad player, certainly for his skills, his touch he is already worth more than 15m but alas, he was a Spurs player and just got into the PL team of the year that season thus we paid over the odds.
Berbatov certainly has not yet gelled with the team, he hasn't linked up with any forward that well yet, people like the Berbs-Hernandez combo but how many times have they actually combined ?
Also, the way Berbs playes spear head means that we play like a 4-6-0 formation, once the ball gets wide, Nani/Park from this season has no one to pick out thus slowing down the play.
I'm not really posting this in hate of Berbs, I've really wanted him to succeed, actually if he could have not missed easy chances and tried to stay in the box more and actually hit the target and try to be more dangerous he'd be a great player to have.... I'd still think he'll start at Rebrox and hopefully he'll end this drought.
Things that have made Berbs uncomfortable was the Cantona comparisons, same skill and touch people will make out but the influence, the work rate the class is still totally different. Berbatovs influence if more of a negative mould, scolding team mates, making little effort to help the team or find the right space at times... Also another huge thing I'm sure most have missed out is his lack of ability to drop wide and cross the ball which we'd expect all our forwards should be able to produce.
Berbatov isn't a bad player, certainly for his skills, his touch he is already worth more than 15m but alas, he was a Spurs player and just got into the PL team of the year that season thus we paid over the odds.
Berbatov certainly has not yet gelled with the team, he hasn't linked up with any forward that well yet, people like the Berbs-Hernandez combo but how many times have they actually combined ?
Also, the way Berbs playes spear head means that we play like a 4-6-0 formation, once the ball gets wide, Nani/Park from this season has no one to pick out thus slowing down the play.
I'm not really posting this in hate of Berbs, I've really wanted him to succeed, actually if he could have not missed easy chances and tried to stay in the box more and actually hit the target and try to be more dangerous he'd be a great player to have.... I'd still think he'll start at Rebrox and hopefully he'll end this drought.
I was really hopeful at the beginning of the season. I even had a good feeling about him :P
I wish he could keep up or regain that early form, but if he continues like this, will he get another season?
I wish he could keep up or regain that early form, but if he continues like this, will he get another season?
BS stories i reckon
He's a luxury player and considering we've struggled to play good football for the last season and a half then he's a luxury we can't afford.
He came to us at the wrong point, if he'd come to us rather than Spurs then imo it'd have been a very different story.
He came to us at the wrong point, if he'd come to us rather than Spurs then imo it'd have been a very different story.
I'm half way between agreeing with this and thinking that he just isn't good enough for us and that in no matter what season he played for us, he doesn't have the required number of goals or performances per season in him to be a justified Manchester United first team player.
I always favour our players when it comes to these things; I wouldn't swap Rooney for any other forward in the World, irrespective of recent poor form. But I have to say if the Benzema-Berbatov swap were true, I'd be happy. I feel bad just saying it.
He doesnt really suit the way we (used to) play. I wouldnt be surprised if he is sold next season
Well, you mean?
I feel bad just reading that. What about Drogba for Rooney, or Villa?
Fans have a disconcerting ability to view the past with rose tinted glasses - especially Berba's time at Tottenham. They saw the Berba they wanted to see not the real Berba. I blame Berba supporters more than Berba because he was always a good player whose price tag and peoples view of him created expectations that were impossible to fulfil.
Berba will get about 12-15 EPL goals this season and thats what he got at his time at Tottenham. I never saw him as some genius player - just a good technical player.
Berba will get about 12-15 EPL goals this season and thats what he got at his time at Tottenham. I never saw him as some genius player - just a good technical player.
I thought someone might flag that up. My point was that despite a player like Villa being immense, we know Rooney fits in and will come good again. I can barely imagine someone being better for us, in place of him. Rightly or wrongly, the point is, is I don't have that same (blind?) faith with Berbatov. There's a reason for this.
How is that his fans' fault? I can understand built up expectations being shot down, but what he's done so far has not been quite enough. In his first season, with Ronaldo and Tevez at the club, maybe it was. Last season we saw that it perhaps wasn't. I don't pin everything on him, obviously, but maybe 12-15 goals and a top performance every 1 in 5 is you know, just not good enough for United?
Great strikers but both are 5 years older than him (7 in Drogbas case) and he proved last season when on form to be their equal, so I wouldn't see them as a good swap.
Do you think he does?
I thought someone might flag that up. My point was that despite a player like Villa being immense, we know Rooney fits in and will come good again. I can barely imagine someone being better for us, in place of him. Rightly or wrongly, the point is, is I don't have that same (blind?) faith with Berbatov. There's a reason for this.
No, I understand the general outline of that, we already know this formula works, we know what it can give us. Here's another formula that might work out better, but then might not, stick or change?
My views on the actual question are split though, or at least compromised since my reasons for wanting Rooney swapped would be more then just his actual ability. With Berbatov, I have faith and respect so I wouldn't see him swapped yet.
I wasn't trying to focus on those two in particular, but the general point behind not swapping Rooney for anyone....Aguero, Pato, Benzema, Ronaldo etc...
I thought someone might flag that up. My point was that despite a player like Villa being immense, we know Rooney fits in and will come good again. I can barely imagine someone being better for us, in place of him. Rightly or wrongly, the point is, is I don't have that same (blind?) faith with Berbatov. There's a reason for this.
How is that his fans' fault? I can understand built up expectations being shot down, but what he's done so far has not been quite enough. In his first season, with Ronaldo and Tevez at the club, maybe it was. Last season we saw that it perhaps wasn't. I don't pin everything on him, obviously, but maybe 12-15 goals and a top performance every 1 in 5 is you know, just not good enough for United?
This is my point. What you think has not been good enough is Berba - thats what he is. You have expected too much - would you expect Park to get 10 goals a season? No. So criticising him for not getting 10 is poointless.
The same goes for Berba - he has scored pretty much at the same rate he did at Tottenham for us in the league. People think he was this great performer - well he looked good when there was less pressure on him to perform and playing in a side that was built on attack.
I see, well if we were talking about players in the same age range and after his recent behavior then yes I'd swap for Ronaldo or Messi but I couldn't see the logic in some of the other players who are no better and not proven in the Prem, the list I'd swap him for would be quite short.
So you would opt for a player who does not perform but causes no strife off the pitch with one who does perform and has been problematic off it. SAF stuck by Cantona and Rio during their indescretions.
I think you're right. Would Maureen want Berbatov at Real? I wouldn't have thought he'd be a good fit there.
The crux of the matter
Good points, I agree. I also understand the difference with Rooney since his little ordeal. That said, I wouldn't swap him. I might have respect for Berbatov and understand he can only try his best, but football's too important to be sentimental. To me, anyway.
What I also felt was important was that I have never come on here criticising Berbatov and have been patient. He started the season well but I can't help but feel it was the exception, not the rule.
I see what you're saying, now.
I watched many quality performances at Spurs and expected to see many for us and perhaps more where, when surrounded by more quality, he can shine even further. A bit like Dwight Yorke, Cantona, or Carrick. But the pressure might be the biggest problem.
What do you mean? That's a perfectly reputable source
Im not exactly sure why any top club would like to sing Berba considering that we would like get as much for him (15 mil + at least) as possible. he does have good reputation in Germany so i think any gossip linking him with a big German club is plausible. other countries? maybe Italy.
hehe seriously?
Well, first off it's not a normal scenario because I am letting my emotion toward Rooney dictate my reasoning.
Second, Rooney isn't performing on or off at the moment if you are implying Berbatov hasn't performed in recent games, neither has he. Problematic might not do justice here. Also, I'm not judging them on recent performances, or even saying it would be between the two, I would swap Rooney for someone of similar calibre if given the chance, that was the main point, that given the choice I would move him on as soon as possible.
I'm not SAF thank god and both Cantona's and Rio's situations were different. I would class Rooney's as worse then all then anyone's so far, but he's in a far better position to judge.
If someone offers £15m then I would sell if not then keep Berba and offer him another contract.
As to Rooney - let see how he goes but has he done irreperable damage to the club?
As to Rio he had his absence due to him missing a drugs test and then all the issues when he accidently met Mourinho at a London Restaurant with his agent.
Did Rooney cross the line, break and unwritten rule with what he did?
Well, if it's a line or unwritten rule, it's a personal one, as seen by the various opinions on this. Some people can look past what he did for the benefit of the club, others can't, or don't see it as a benefit. I'm not willing to look past what he did, whether it suits United's challenge for success more so or not.
I wouldn't say his damage to the club is irreparable, although I do believe he has under-mined it massively. Coming back will repair a bit of it, but the nature in which we have taken him back still leaves me a bit....bitter. However, I think his damage to the fans, or the beliefs for some of the fans, is total.
Did he meet Mourinho? I always thought it was just Kenyon.
I just think Rooney made himself look a complete tosser. What with his comments about staying here forever, then changing his mind two months later by requesting a transfer, then denying injury, his entire statement was mind-blowingly offensive if you don't actually believe what he says, his lack of acknowledging the people who inspire his confidence, and made him feel like the player he was. It's all one big incredible insult, and I don't care how good he is, or how better our chances for glory are, I just can't look past it.
I wouldn't say his damage to the club is irreparable, although I do believe he has under-mined it massively. Coming back will repair a bit of it, but the nature in which we have taken him back still leaves me a bit....bitter. However, I think his damage to the fans, or the beliefs for some of the fans, is total.
Did he meet Mourinho? I always thought it was just Kenyon.
I just think Rooney made himself look a complete tosser. What with his comments about staying here forever, then changing his mind two months later by requesting a transfer, then denying injury, his entire statement was mind-blowingly offensive if you don't actually believe what he says, his lack of acknowledging the people who inspire his confidence, and made him feel like the player he was. It's all one big incredible insult, and I don't care how good he is, or how better our chances for glory are, I just can't look past it.
Leverkusen would welcome him back with open arms. Or Spurs especially with Harry Redknapp there.
Nobody is going to offer £15 million at the end of the season when he's almost half way through his 30th year.
If we wanted that kind ofmoney it had to come last summer. You're stuck with him now for better or for worse.
At least with his value going through the floor at his age, it makes more sense to keep him as a squad option even though we'd hopefully have better performing starters.
If we wanted that kind ofmoney it had to come last summer. You're stuck with him now for better or for worse.
At least with his value going through the floor at his age, it makes more sense to keep him as a squad option even though we'd hopefully have better performing starters.
Spurs would not take him back now.
They might considering he wouldnt cost much, but would he even start for them? Defoe and Crouch have a good understanding, VDV has done very well playing in the hole behind a striker... He would perhaps only take Pavlyuchenko's role as a rotated striker and backup. Cant imagine he'd be happy with that.
Spurs play 2 ways either quick attacking football down the flanks are knock it long with diagonal balls. Neither of which suit Berbatov's game. If you ask a Spurs fan if they would want him or not I reckon as high as 90% would say no thanks
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