Bad Berba's Back
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I understand why people are a little defensive over Berbatov as he got quite a lot of unfair stick in his first season but now it's gone full circle. He can't be criticised at all and now some people are so blinded they can't even see it when he's turning in rancid displays.
He will be back to his best, i'm sure of it. But that doesnt mean we can't discuss it when he's playing shit.
He will be back to his best, i'm sure of it. But that doesnt mean we can't discuss it when he's playing shit.
it's possibly because he seems to get all the flak - and I mean ALL - I don't think we've played well at all much this season, and it can't be all big bad berba's fault!
No he doesn't though. Fletcher, Evra, O'Shea, Evans, Carrick, Anderson, Rooney, Macheda, Park, Neville and even Hernandez have all come in for shit this season.
The Berba Defense Team just seem to be far to touchy.
He's been shit. I don't see why some people have a problem admitting that.
Oh, don't choose what suits you and leave out the rest. I said it has not been awful compared to the others. Which means that if you are going to judge him, well you must blame the whole team too. If we had a superbly in form midfielder with wingers who can actually cross the ball and Berbatov didn't deliver, I would be the first one here saying he has been awful. But this was not the case, our forwards haven't been fed well by midfielders.
Besides this, Berbatov has not been "awful". That's just too much when you consider his link up play in some of the last games. But if you consider "not scoring goals" as being the definition of being "awful" I would agree with you. However, you won't find many agreeing with such a one-dimensional view...
Stop being so reasonable, he's lazy and needs a kick up the arse blah blah blah.
If our other 10 players are brilliant and Berbatov is awful then he is awful.
If our other 10 players are awful and berbatov is awful then he is still awful. As a lot of people have already pointed out, it's not just his performances that have stunk the place out, it has been his attitude too.
He was awful today, bloody invisible.
Will be interesting to see how he does midweek though. Gonna be the kind of game where we could do with some of his magic to break through a tight (Scottish) defence.
Will be interesting to see how he does midweek though. Gonna be the kind of game where we could do with some of his magic to break through a tight (Scottish) defence.
Then you can't judge him objectively, he is a forward and is supposed to be the last element in our attacks. If those attacks don't start well then you can't judge the last step. Pretty simple logic yet suprisingly hard to grasp for many on here...
And then here we are talking about his attitude again...Sorry but that just doesn't hold. The only time I have seen him really angry is with Nani and quite frankly, I would have been too...Nani is a good player when he is on form but can be very frustrating and for a player like Berbatov who wants desperately to deliver it can quickly become a nightmare. I am sure this would not have happened with Valencia for instance.
I have already said that Berbatov's confidence has gone down, and he relies heavily on that. However, he has never been one to run around and show a lot of passion, he makes up for that with intelligent play. The point here is that unlike someone like Tevez who, even if the rest of the team doesn't perform, will run like a headless chicken and therefore 'show' his dedication and be praised, Berbatov will not have that luxury. For Berbatov's strengths to be apparent, he needs to have a performing team around him which is hardly the case now.
Moreover, Berbatov has already said that his body language does not convey exactly how he feels so try to leave that out.
Liam Miller esque.
He"s on his way to fernabache
So according to you a stiker cannot play well unless the team is playing well?
I see what you're saying, it helps a striker when he's getting chance after chance but you can't expect that all the time. Sometimes you need to make things happen.
Besides, he was fed a glorious chance last week and didn't take it. Am I allowed to say he was awful in that game as he had "service"?
For most strikers it is the case, yes.
As I said, Berbatov's confidence is low and so I can understand him missing one chance. But even then, only one chance is not proper service unless you have a conversion ration of 1 in 1...
Well then I go back to my original reply to you. If you think Berbatov is playing well then fair fecks to you.
I expect a lot more, clearly. I disagree with your entire theory.
I can undersand you disagreeing with it, as I generally think that a player like Berbatov will not suit a part of the supporters wherever he goes. His style is so different and he is so complex in terms of his mentality that it is hard for people to make a distinction between when he does not play well and when he does. This really makes sense to me when I see the same people who bash him praise him when does score a goal and when, for me, his general play is not that different from the times when he got bashed.
But i'm actually a Berbatov fan. This is the first time I've really criticised him and it actually only started out as a bit of a joke.
I know Berbatov isn't about the goals (which is why I disagree with your "service" point") but it's his performances that have been a let down. Sloppy and slow in possesion, stroppy with team mates and generally a bit shit.
He'll be back to his best though. He's too good not to be.
I love him, today 
I know that too. But people criticise him mainly on his number of goals which are now lacking due to poor service and so I put that argument forward.
Evra said: "I said before the game that if we beat Wigan and Blackburn next week we would be top of the league, and I am still confident of that.
"But I think the team can give much more than we are giving right now.
"We are still at the top of the league, but against Blackburn we need to play from the first minute, not just at the end of the game.
"We are Manchester United and we need to be more aggressive and score more goals - and to bring back the way United play always."
Evra's headed goal arrived at the perfect moment just on the stroke of half-time.
"I don't think my son was even born the last time I scored a goal for United," Evra joked afterwards on MUTV.
"It was a good cross from my best friend Ji-sung Park, I think maybe I'll get him a big present for Christmas, maybe a car."
Wigan self-destructed in the second half, shortly after Wayne Rooney had come off the bench for his first appearance since his controversial threat to leave the club was followed by the signing of a new contract.
Whether because Rooney's appearance unnerved Wigan, or just through frustration that their promising first half had been undone by Evra, both Antolin Alcaraz and Hugo Rodallega launched into unnecessary challenges.
Alcaraz was sent off by referee Martin Atkinson for a second cautionable offence, while Rodallega was given a straight red for a two-footed, off-the-ground lunge at Rafael.
Javier Hernandez headed the second and he believes Rooney's return to action has come just at the right time.
"He's a class player, he's a great team-mate and we want Wayne to be at 100% now to help the team," said Hernandez. "We all think great things are coming soon."
Whether great things are in the offing for £30million Dimitar Berbatov is less certain however after Ferguson chose Federico Macheda and Gabriel Obertan to start in attack and did not even name the Bulgarian as a substitute.
"I just left him out - picking my subs today I just thought I had to give a different type of variety," said Ferguson.
Hmm
"But I think the team can give much more than we are giving right now.
"We are still at the top of the league, but against Blackburn we need to play from the first minute, not just at the end of the game.
"We are Manchester United and we need to be more aggressive and score more goals - and to bring back the way United play always."
Evra's headed goal arrived at the perfect moment just on the stroke of half-time.
"I don't think my son was even born the last time I scored a goal for United," Evra joked afterwards on MUTV.
"It was a good cross from my best friend Ji-sung Park, I think maybe I'll get him a big present for Christmas, maybe a car."
Wigan self-destructed in the second half, shortly after Wayne Rooney had come off the bench for his first appearance since his controversial threat to leave the club was followed by the signing of a new contract.
Whether because Rooney's appearance unnerved Wigan, or just through frustration that their promising first half had been undone by Evra, both Antolin Alcaraz and Hugo Rodallega launched into unnecessary challenges.
Alcaraz was sent off by referee Martin Atkinson for a second cautionable offence, while Rodallega was given a straight red for a two-footed, off-the-ground lunge at Rafael.
Javier Hernandez headed the second and he believes Rooney's return to action has come just at the right time.
"He's a class player, he's a great team-mate and we want Wayne to be at 100% now to help the team," said Hernandez. "We all think great things are coming soon."
Whether great things are in the offing for £30million Dimitar Berbatov is less certain however after Ferguson chose Federico Macheda and Gabriel Obertan to start in attack and did not even name the Bulgarian as a substitute.
"I just left him out - picking my subs today I just thought I had to give a different type of variety," said Ferguson.
Hmm
Doesn't look good for Berba.
If Rooney can gel with Hernandez, that would be bad for Berbatov. Otherwise now, he's ok.
Strange that from Fergie. Why not say "Berbatov got a knock in training"?
Something's going on?
Something's going on?
Good.
If any other player gave the attitude he has been giving, they'd be dropped in an instant.
Why should he be treated any differently. His attitude stinks...and it pisses me off.
If any other player gave the attitude he has been giving, they'd be dropped in an instant.
Why should he be treated any differently. His attitude stinks...and it pisses me off.
he's been dropped, it happens all the time in football, it's not a drama, why sugarcoat it?
Excellent. Fergie giving him a kick up his arse. You don't shout at your own team-mates no matter what, i bloody hate to see that.
Exactly.
This is the one thing that began to annoy me about Nistelrooy toward the end of his tenure at United. He'd constantly lose his temper with Ronaldo. (Was a world class player mind you).
Same thing now with Berbatov...the only difference being Berba hasn't shattered every goal scoring record we've ever had.
You rarely see managers talking openly about it though, especially Fergie.
I noticed he's been doing that a lot this season, and it's not just the odd match either, every game he seems to be having a rant at someone; in the Bursaspor game he was even having a go at Scholes, you don't do that
Now if he was banging in the goals every game I could understand the reaction, but he's done very little since the Liverpool game and I don't think he should criticise other players when his own game is poor at the moment.
He didn't speak openly about it though, he said it indirectly, hopefully Berba will up his game and break back into the sqaud, we need his class
Not sure I agree with that, sometimes a player does need a swift boot up the backside from a team mate. But it matters how its done, and if its productive. Berbatov's method is how it shouldn't be done, and the reason is his motivation behind it seems to be frustration at his own performance, rather than trying to get more out of a team mate
I got absolutely blasted by someone on here yesterday for suggesting that Fergie had maybe left him out because he's had enough of his poor form. It would seem I wasn't such an idiot after all, on that occasion at least.
why would anybody blast you for that?
It's very plausible it would happen, especially with Rooney returning
Because how very dare I criticise Berbatov.
Some swear blind he's performed well and that folk are simply bashing him because they don't like them
It's most definitely become polemic
Yeah, on here you can't speak badly of anyone.
There are a few reasons why we aren't the team we were say 2/3 years ago.
Taking pace out of the attack with the introduction of Berbatov is one of them.
United are built on a history of fast counter attacking football. Berbatov does not fit in with this mentality.
CMs not joining in with the attacks is another.
You don't need to tell me mate, I think its been scandalous and I've said so
Particularly as its often directed at the younger players
This is a fair shift in Berbatov ideology from Ferguson, lets hope when he's back in the side it sparks the intended response
Should be IF not WHEN.
I think we would do well to get Welbeck, Macheda, Rooney, Hernandez as our 4 forwards. Give the lads a shot.
I loved it when Schmeichel did it. Man, the air around the penalty area turned blue at times when he let fly.
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