Tyler had a nice crack at him: ' Berbatov hasn't been booked.... not a stain on his character... none on his shirt either, mind you...
Bad Berba's Back
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He couldn't have asked for a better opportunity to prove himself whilst Rooney has been injured and to step up and be a big player for us on the pitch whilst there have been some difficulties.
I hear what everybody is saying about the midfield but that is still no excuse. He isn't a big player and he never will be, he's just a fancy cog in a much better machine. At the start of the season we all got excited about a potential Rooney and Hernandez partnership. Well, we were all right, that is the future. And Berbatovs is that of a squad player, and with the young guns of Obertan, Macheda and Welbeck breathing down his neck and improving all the time, I'd say his position as a bench warmer is underthreat next season too. Not like he's gonna come on and make an impact is it.
I hear what everybody is saying about the midfield but that is still no excuse. He isn't a big player and he never will be, he's just a fancy cog in a much better machine. At the start of the season we all got excited about a potential Rooney and Hernandez partnership. Well, we were all right, that is the future. And Berbatovs is that of a squad player, and with the young guns of Obertan, Macheda and Welbeck breathing down his neck and improving all the time, I'd say his position as a bench warmer is underthreat next season too. Not like he's gonna come on and make an impact is it.
Blaming the midfield that does not create enough chances is BULLSHIT. This is the team that has scored the same amount of goals as Arsenal and 2 less than Chelsea. No one talks about Arsenal having a midfield that does not create.
Nani and Evra created a great chance but Berba didnt read it and he missed a one on one. How many chances does he need?
Nani and Evra created a great chance but Berba didnt read it and he missed a one on one. How many chances does he need?
It's not about confidence only. Berbatov looked pretty confident and even arrogant against Man City, and was the best attacking player on the pitch. Had the bicycle kick been successful, we wouldn't comment on his form now.
He doesn't fit in the team when Scholes and Giggs don't play and Nani is poor/selfish. In the Liverpool game he played with Rooney, Giggs, Scholes and not-so-selfish Nani. It was the last time when he played in that configuration. The understanding between him and the other players isn't good at the moment. BTW, when was the last time when Nani found Berbatov in the box? It was against Liverpool and the ball was far from good actually.
Berbatov struggles when we can't keep possession, he gets pissed with his team-mates, loses concentration and is poor when he finally gets the ball in good positions. This is probably his biggest weakness, his inability to stay calm and concentrated when the team as a whole doesn't play well and he finds himself starved of service. Instead of working hard and trying to change the game, he gets pissed with the way the team plays.
He doesn't fit in the team when Scholes and Giggs don't play and Nani is poor/selfish. In the Liverpool game he played with Rooney, Giggs, Scholes and not-so-selfish Nani. It was the last time when he played in that configuration. The understanding between him and the other players isn't good at the moment. BTW, when was the last time when Nani found Berbatov in the box? It was against Liverpool and the ball was far from good actually.
Berbatov struggles when we can't keep possession, he gets pissed with his team-mates, loses concentration and is poor when he finally gets the ball in good positions. This is probably his biggest weakness, his inability to stay calm and concentrated when the team as a whole doesn't play well and he finds himself starved of service. Instead of working hard and trying to change the game, he gets pissed with the way the team plays.
Good point of view. It does seem that it is a vicious circle that needs to be broken somewhere for things to work. Obviously, the expectation is that this should come from Berba himself. Scholes and Giggs can't always play unfortunately and Nani will always be mostly a selfish player, or when passing, the quality is not there yet consistently.
The problem is you need to continue to prove yourself at United. Berbatov had one great day against Liverpool and everyone was hoping he'd kick on from that or at least continue at the level he had shown this season, but now his form has dipped again and he's struggling for goals.
The likes of Park and some of the fringe players come in and have a good/great game in an important match almost every season, and yet soon its forgotten and the fans are ready to toss them on the scrap heap. There's no reason why it should be different with Berbatov. He's due a goal and a good performance, I dont really mind if we have to wait till Arsenal and Chelsea to see it. Just as long as he delivers.
The likes of Park and some of the fringe players come in and have a good/great game in an important match almost every season, and yet soon its forgotten and the fans are ready to toss them on the scrap heap. There's no reason why it should be different with Berbatov. He's due a goal and a good performance, I dont really mind if we have to wait till Arsenal and Chelsea to see it. Just as long as he delivers.
So it shouldn't be the same between the likes of Park who's a dedicated squad player and Dimitar Berbatov who is a 30 million pound striker and was expected to be a first team player.....
He is meant to lead the line but doesn't and it bemuses me that people can say, oh he had a good game there and there, but in retrospect for a good amount of time he's absolute shite. It doesn't cut the mustard. He either needs to be good the majority of the time, show some ticker or piss off. He is not in the same category of Park, most notably because Park generally made a bigger impact over the course of Berbatovs united career, but because he was bought to be a first team player not a solid squad player. Owen and Hernandez can be comfortable with that but not Berbatov.
Player Team Top Scorers
1 Andrew Carroll Newcastle 7
2 Florent Malouda Chelsea 7
3 Kevin Nolan Newcastle 7
4 Carlos Tevez Manchester City 7
5 Darren Bent Sunderland 6
6 Dimitar Berbatov Man Utd 6
7 Tim Cahill Everton 6
8 Didier Drogba Chelsea 6
9 Johan Elmander Bolton 6
10 Marouane Chamakh Arsenal 5
Didn't know that Berbatov is only one goal behind the top scorers in the league. And that Drogba hasn't scored more league goals than Berbatov. 3 poor games in 3 months. Big deal, he'll score goals again.
1 Andrew Carroll Newcastle 7
2 Florent Malouda Chelsea 7
3 Kevin Nolan Newcastle 7
4 Carlos Tevez Manchester City 7
5 Darren Bent Sunderland 6
6 Dimitar Berbatov Man Utd 6
7 Tim Cahill Everton 6
8 Didier Drogba Chelsea 6
9 Johan Elmander Bolton 6
10 Marouane Chamakh Arsenal 5
Didn't know that Berbatov is only one goal behind the top scorers in the league. And that Drogba hasn't scored more league goals than Berbatov. 3 poor games in 3 months. Big deal, he'll score goals again.
Anyone who actually watches games knows that goals or a lack of goals isn't the issue with Berbatov, granted its a stick to beat him with when he goes on a barren run.
More then that one?
What is the issue with him then?
I think its unfair to judge Berba with our current midfield I really do. He should feel confident enough in our midfield to stay in the final third and make magic.. all I see him do since he's joined us is having to do the midfields work i.e. helping the team keep possession and fecking about in centre-mid.
Not only that but Drogba's had more poor games than Berbatov too. It's like playing with 10 men sometimes. If he's not making the difference he's usually not doing anything. Here's his last two games.
I'm not expecting him to be as involved as a Berbatov or Rooney, but he couldn't even manage 15 passes to a team-mate in two games! Not even one pass every 10 minutes. He's had as many games where he's made 10 or more successful passes as he has 5 or less(4). He's never passed to a team-mate 15 times or more. That's shocking.
It's something people don't really appreciate in Berbatov, even when he's 'invisible' he's doing a lot more than supposedly world class Drogba. It's a trade-off between making the difference and being a constant influence on the game of course, but it's amazing how Drogba's (and Torres') anonymity gets glossed over time and again as if it doesn't matter because they're strikers, and that Berbatov's possession play and involvement in the build-up isn't particularly useful.
The same midfield that was a point off the title. The one that won the title 3 years in a row. The same midfield where we are joint second in the scoring charts.
If Berba plays in midfield as you say and then why are we not creative?
Berba has pretty much played the same as he did for Tottenham and has scored pretty much the same amount of goals - he is the the same player. He is a good player but not as great as you make him out.
Isn't 7 goals in 13 games played very, very low for top scorers?
I don't mind him not scoring enough goals, in fact i love him watching him caress the ball and holding it up away from his marker then pings a pass to the wing (like numerous times to Antonio last season). I just cannot stand him screaming at his team-mates whenever he doesn't receive a good pass. Does he understand football is a team game and they are all in it together? It's funny cos he mentioned this before in his interviews.
7 goals in 13 games = 20 goals in 38 games
Anelka was top scorer with 18- 19 goals a year ago.
I didn't realise Tevez has actually only scored 1 more goal than Berbatov this season, and everyone goes on about how great Tevez is and how disappointing Berba is.
(Having said that, Tevez has probably played fewer games than Berbatov, although I'm not sure about that...)
(Having said that, Tevez has probably played fewer games than Berbatov, although I'm not sure about that...)
Tevez takes their penalties as well, don't he?
I think that analysis is spot on.
That's quite interesting and shocking indeed.
Good post hombre, it's the fact that Berba scored 3 in one that makes the drought more vicious
Tevez
Appearances 12
Goals 7
Assists 3
Berbatov
Appearances 12
Goals 6
Assists 2
Not much in it.
Wow, so they've actually made the same appearances??
That really hits it home. Everyone goes on an on about how brilliant Tevez is, the heartbeat of the City side, a world class player, and he's scored 1 more goal than Berbatov and had 1 more assist in the same amount of games, and despite all this Berbatov is still a disappointment when Tevez is wonderful.
I wonder whether a lot of journalist's assessments of Tevez and Berbatov has something to do with Tevez being the City player and Berbatov the United player.
It's not. Tevez really is the heartbeat of the City team. Berba has played well at times, but he has never had that much influence on our game.
Berba plays in a better side.
Berba stats are skewed by the run of 5 goals in 3 consecutive games.
I am not too bothered about berba goal return as i expect him to get about 12-15 EPL goals. What irks me is the constant hounding of our so called midfield fault for Berba ineffectiveness.
Berba is a good player but nothing more.
That's because United have a better team, and we have lots of heartbeats in our team, and not just one. A lot of players contribute equally. Berba is like another piece of a jigsaw, and not the whole piece, like Tevez can be.
I understood what I meant there at least.
I understand that, but he still scored those goals, including 3 against Liverpool. I know he hasn't scored in a while and that's not really good enough, but I don't think it matters what games you score them in. Although it would be nice if he'd got a few more in other games so we could have turned those draws into wins.
I agree with what you're saying in essence though.
If Berbs tried to show his determination on the pitch more than sulk, will we have these Berbatov bashing threads ?
He's their most important attacker, yes, but that doesn't necessarily mean he's played particularly well. Has Tevez had any brilliant games?
You talk about how Berbatov's never had that level of influence on our game, but his level of influence against Liverpool hasn't been matched by Tevez all season in my view. The quality of his goals in general's been worse than Berbatov's, as has his general play. Not his fault solely by any means but there's no way Tevez has been noticeably better than Berbatov this season.
Exactly. The focus on his goals is misleading we know what type of player he is and we know what he is capable of. It's not the midfield fault its just the way Berba plays - it wont change so we need to accept it.
Those hoping for some lazarus style re-animation can keep on hoping. Berba is a good player and a good squad player.
I have posted before I would keep him on simply because the money we spent is gone and we won't get much for him. He is good enough for about 12 plus EPL goals a season which is a fair return for a good player - just dont make him out to be some sort of footballing god.
Don't care what talent he is supposed to have, he is not making enough of a contribution to Manchester United's attack which traditionally is full of speedy flair and match winners. People will defend him out of loyalty and Fergie is always talking up his ability, but actions speak louder, Fergie the past 2 Summers has tried to sign firstly benzema and then david villa this Summer, he has tried to change it but could'nt get the players, all he can do is try to get the best out of him until we can get a different option in.
In terms of goals+assists he must be in top 5 in the league for the last 4 years. In that respect, he was second only to Ronaldo after his first 3 seasons in England (including his first season with us) and level with Rooney. "Good player but nothing more" - that's simply not true. In terms of technique, he's arguably the most gifted player in the league. I know you have a soft spot for Berba, still you could be a tad more realistic.
He's a player with outstanding ability. Wether he fits in this United's team is another question. Questioning his talent isn't the best thing you can do though.
I don't think so no. Most people on here dislike Zlatan for the same thing. The problem with Berba is not the midfield, not his striking partner and not his lack of goals or assists in the last games, the problem is his attitude when things aren't going his way. Seriously can anyone sticking up for Berba here tell me he displays a good attitude?
Personally I think his shocking attitude is starting to affect other players in the team.
He never questioned his talent did he? I doubt anyone with a brain ever would. I'll put a question to you though... Roy Keane who had nowhere near the talent of Berba, who's the better player?
It's not all about technique and skill.
I seem to remember on Saturday a great cross from Evra on the left and Berbatov was at the far post and if he had moved forward he would have scored but he was static. He doesn't seem to read the crosses very well unless they come to him. He has scored 6 goals but 3 were in one game when he was exceptional and he hasn't scored for 8 games is it? His body language is often awful.
Keane had a great talent for a box to box midfielder. He was a great footballer, not only a great leader on the pitch.
I agree that it's not all about technique and skill though. This is why I pointed out that statistically Berbatov makes the top 5 in the Prem in terms of goals+assists since his arrival from Germany. Which shows that he's applied his talent well.
The fact of the matter is, Berbatov's in his 3rd season at United and we're STILL discussing whether he's good enough for us or not.
I think that says it all!!
I think that says it all!!
What do you define technique as?
Berba in 4 full seasons has scored 48 EPL goals in 134 games.
Robbie Keane has scored 42 EPL goals in 116 games.
I would say they are about as effective as each other - Keane substiutes more graft than craft but overall there effectivness is similar.
You cannot measure a player's influence only in terms of goals. Berbatov has been one of the most creative strikers in the league in the last 4 seasons, probably the most creative. No other striker in the league is as good at linking up the play, keeping possession in tight spaces etc. If it was only about goals Robbie Keane would be a greater player than Bergkamp.
You are quite right. However, it does, once again, brings the questions of a player being right for the team. Does our team have enough scorers in it for us to play Berbatov even if his goalscoring isn't great, because they would use his creativity? No matter which way you look at it, it only looks good and right on occasion.
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