The 89m argument is largely a non starter for me. We all know he ain't worth that! I expect better from him though,much better because I believe he is a good player and not because he cost a world record fee.
Baby elephant is growing quickly in the room
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So we're talking about three presentable chances created in 8 league games. Which fits with the stats you were doubting. He's really not creating much at all.
He's not playing like you'd expect the most expensive player in the history of the game, sure, but i fully believe that the team plays better with Pogba than without him. Meaning i'm glad that we've got him. His fancy footwork is nothing but incredible, he'll come good sooner rather than later. There're already glimpses of it for everyone to see...
I would imagine he'll be fine in the long run, but to me he looks completely undercooked physically, which is perhaps not that surprising given that his pre season seemed to largely consist of playing basketball with Lukaka and taking a dip in a hot tub with Mino 'Butterball' Raiola. That the game is passing him by isn't that surprising, given that he's new to the league (at least at this level). That they physical side of things is causing him an issue would be a bit more worrying for me as there's no reason it should be happening.
Sometimes he just seems a bit...dopey. Again this is a style thing that I never liked about him as a player. He relies on those long legs to outreach opponents. But its seems to me he's being closed down far too easily.
Maybe it's rose tinted specs but I don't remember players from the past being out of form for so long. I'm not just talking about Pogba as it's the same for others. Seems to be accepted as the norm if somebody is under par for 15 games.
They'll have had bad games here and there but I don't remember Beckham, Keane, Ruud, Stam etc just being average for months.
They'll have had bad games here and there but I don't remember Beckham, Keane, Ruud, Stam etc just being average for months.
Keane really hit the ground running when he signed first. Stam took a bit of bedding in back in 98 but by October we could all see how important he was going to be.
It's partly rose-tinted specs but mainly you remembering players in their prime. When they are at their most consistent. That's why the likes of Hererra and Fellaini have been more consistent than younger players. For Pogba, he's not only got to settle, he also has to mature. We've blatantly been taken to the cleaners but if he ever does come close to justifying the fee it will probably be in another 2 or 3 years from now.
why go back so far? Vidic and Evra both took a whole half season to look like future mainstays of the team.
I think Herrera has been very inconsistent since he arrived. To a lesser extent I'd say the same about Fellaini. They kind of demonstrate my point.
I take your point about Pogba's circumstances though.
Aye, you're right about them being up and down. I put that down to the club being in so much turmoil. I just think with players their age you can rely on one good performance following another. With players Pogba's age they can go from world beaters to shite in a matter of days, for no obvious reason (which is what happened this week)
True. Though I'd say he's teetering on the age where inconsistent performances shouldn't be happening. He's quite experienced for a player his age. Ronaldo was already world player of the year at 23. I wouldn't expect that of Pogba but very soon he should be 8/10 most weeks.
Zlatan owes him at least 3 assists.
Absolutely. He can't use youth as an excuse much longer. Ditto settling into a new club. Both reasonable excuses right now though. I won't be too worried until we're seeing the same crap in the new year. Not worried but definitely disappointed.
What are the 'prime' years for a midfielder? I mean..is it 24 to 28?
24/25 - 33 if I had to generalise.
I'd say so. Some might be very good in their 30's and develop a way of playing that let's team carry on. They still won't be as good though.
It's only frustrating with Pogba because clearly the ability is there and he's plenty of top level experience.
It'll come I'm sure. Though I'm not sure if I'll ever decide if he's fast or slow. His running style is so unusual that it's very difficult to tell.
I would say 26 to 32.
we were tricked into believing we were signing a world class, top 3 in his position player meaning he should be better in most ways than players older and more experienced than him. We can't judge him as a youngster, just as we wouldn't do that for Harry Kane. These guys are established now
That's because SAF was able to make a player disappear for an entire month, when they were out of form.
Totally different skill sets though.
Ronaldo was given the ball and expected to rely on instinct and physical domination.
Pogba is expected to do a bit of that as well as have a much greater tactical understanding and reading of the game when we don't have the ball.
What's more, Ronaldo's contribution is very individual while Pogba's carries a lot of trust in the players around him. A midfielder can't be the match winner as frequently.
That's not absolving him of blame, he could still be doing much better and I'm sure he will.
Confucious say, man who bold own text make reader ignore rest of paragraph.He's not playing like you'd expect the most expensive player in the history of the game, sure, but i fully believe that the team plays better with Pogba than without him. Meaning i'm glad that we've got him. His fancy footwork is nothing but incredible, he'll come good sooner rather than later. There're already glimpses of it for everyone to see...
Who was?
You weren't tricked, you didn't listen.
Sorry not sure what you mean.
Yeah well like I said I don't expect Pogba to be getting world player of the year. I just think it's worth remembering how other very good young players were performing at 23 when we talk about Pogba's age.
Agreed. Just don't tell Wayne Rooney.
Under SAF an out of form player was benched, he would notice it during the week and bench him. That's why the fans weren't in a position to say that a player was out of form for a entire month.
Or our current goalkeeper.
I would put part of Pogba's problems, aside from his own responsibility, down to coaching/training and if Mourinho's staff are worth their salt, we'll see a much better (and consistent) player soon enough.
Fair enough, I'm going to give him a good settling in period before I start getting worried.
Rather than comparing him to outstanding players in his age group, compare him to class players in any age group who haven't yet played 10 games for their new team.
Or compare him to players who played about 80 games last year.
Or combine the two and accept that while he's physically in peak condition it could take him a little while to settle into a groove and get the mental side of it perfect.
Tricked by who? The frenzy around his transfer?
FifPro World Xi inclusion. This is generally reserved for the best of the best. Does it carry little credibility then?
I see. I don't really know who all got picked in the 11 to know how credible it is tbh don't really pay attention to these best 11 awards. Pogba is definitely not among the top 3 CMs in the world though imo and neither worth the fee we paid for him. It was always going to be a huge money transfer not worth what we were getting but who gives a feck really. We are loaded and we get to see pogba play for us, hopefully for a long time.
People are expecting the wrong things from Pogba. He will create chances and he'll score the odd goal because he has the power and skill to do it...but he's a midfielder, so he's not going to be doing it multiple times a game.
Everyone seems to have decided he's a forward or no10, based on, well, nothing, and have invented this term "advanced midfielder" which I've never heard used to describe any player before...and then slate him for not playing like one of these things. He's never going to be that type of player. He wasn't when he was in our youth set up, he wasn't at Juve whenever I watched him there. He never has been for France. Why do people think this is what Paul Pogba is? I mean to the point you see people whining about us "misusing" him by playing him in midfield.
He's a physical presence in the middle who can drive the team forwards, commit players and then move the play on, and one that's still developing and learning how to run or impose himself on a game, rather than drift in and out of it.
Forget the fee and just judge him on what he is and actually does well. Rather then expecting him to do stuff he's never going to be the type of player to do. So far he's had a couple of really good games, some decent ones, and one or two poor ones, but he's been a massive improvement already in the middle of the pitch.
I find it utterly bizarre he's become some kind of target, after what, less than 10 games? Mostly based on people expecting the wrong things too, rather than having all that much to do with how he's played. £89m doesn't mean you automatically become the world's best player. He might get close to that in time but surely everyone knew he wasn't that yet?
Everyone seems to have decided he's a forward or no10, based on, well, nothing, and have invented this term "advanced midfielder" which I've never heard used to describe any player before...and then slate him for not playing like one of these things. He's never going to be that type of player. He wasn't when he was in our youth set up, he wasn't at Juve whenever I watched him there. He never has been for France. Why do people think this is what Paul Pogba is? I mean to the point you see people whining about us "misusing" him by playing him in midfield.
He's a physical presence in the middle who can drive the team forwards, commit players and then move the play on, and one that's still developing and learning how to run or impose himself on a game, rather than drift in and out of it.
Forget the fee and just judge him on what he is and actually does well. Rather then expecting him to do stuff he's never going to be the type of player to do. So far he's had a couple of really good games, some decent ones, and one or two poor ones, but he's been a massive improvement already in the middle of the pitch.
I find it utterly bizarre he's become some kind of target, after what, less than 10 games? Mostly based on people expecting the wrong things too, rather than having all that much to do with how he's played. £89m doesn't mean you automatically become the world's best player. He might get close to that in time but surely everyone knew he wasn't that yet?
I think that's all reasonable but surely it's not hard to see why he's a target. When you spend that much money on a central midfielder who is supposed to do his best work in the opposition half then it stands to reason that people will be perturbed when it's mid October and he's created a grand total of two or three decent chances, scored one goal (a header from a corner) and got zero assists. I can't even remember him forcing an opposition keeper into a save!
And that's ignoring all the marketing razzamatazz that tried to convince the fans we'd basically signed the second coming of Christ.
Like it or not, Pogba's under immense scrutiny and - so far - is not coming well out of it.
And that's ignoring all the marketing razzamatazz that tried to convince the fans we'd basically signed the second coming of Christ.
Like it or not, Pogba's under immense scrutiny and - so far - is not coming well out of it.
Past inclusions. Quite an high grade list of top top performers who delivered on multiple fronts. Having been placed in this company sort of got me gassed. This is because I don't have seria A access and was disappointed when I saw him in the CL and at 2 international tournaments so was really all one could go by. "all the scouts and managers cannot be wrong surely?"
2015 - Pogba Modric Iniesta
2014 - Di Maria, Kroos, Iniesta
2013 - Iniesta Ribery Xavi
2012 - Iniesta Xavi Xabi Alonso
2011 - Iniesta Xavi Xabi Alonso
2010 - Iniesta Xavi Sneidjer
2009 - Xavi Iniesta Gerrard
2008 - Kaka Gerrard Xavi
Let’s not rewrite history. The caf always loved Pogba and the overwhelming consensus was - long before he got linked to us - that he is one of the best midfielders in the world. Once the transfer saga started to get some credibility, he was hyped even more and was seen on a level with the very best midfielders out there.
So yeah, if you just followed the caf and didn’t actually watch him play (or just watched a bit of YouTube), you could reasonably have assumed that we get a world-beater. The few people who didn’t bought into the hype were ignored or shouted down.
Nobody described him ever as a forward and only few people as #10. The problem with Pogba is that the fairly simplistic classifications like #6-DM/#8-CM/#10-AM or b2b/holding midfielder don’t really describe him particularly well, because he doesn’t confirm the regular stereotypes of these roles.
basically describing him as a Henderson though. The driving the team forward has also been no existent as often times he has soo few touches of the ball and walks around the pitch off the ball. not much driving as of yet to be fair.
Great post
Ironic considering the prime element of a Pogba thread is posters arguing what exactly he is, a 6,8 or 10, so no, "everyone has not decided he's a forward or 10", quite the opposite actually. People don't seem to know yet.
Exactly. Remember the shit folks used to say when Ozil had just arrived in the EPL.....Give the lad time. He still plays at Serie A pace too much for his own good at times
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