Baby elephant is growing quickly in the room

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Adebesi said:
So to the people who think there's a baby elephant in the room. Is it shrinking?
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He needs to do it in the premier league where there is less time and space on the ball before it starts shrinking. He is very good when he has time and space but when rushed and closed down he becomes very average so the test is if he can overcome this.
 
BringNaniBack said:
He needs to do it in the premier league where there is less time and space on the ball before it starts shrinking. He is very good when he has time and space but when rushed and closed down he becomes very average so the test is if he can overcome this.
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No, thats when he is very good and thats what sets him apart from the rest. His ability to improvise with his footwork and ball control when under pressure is superb. He did that a few times tonight with some very lovely bits of skill while being pressured by 2 or 3 defenders. His problem has been that he simply hasnt settled yet, once he has this thread will be forgotten.
 
BringNaniBack said:
He needs to do it in the premier league where there is less time and space on the ball before it starts shrinking. He is very good when he has time and space but when rushed and closed down he becomes very average so the test is if he can overcome this.
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Well if it isn't shrinking has it changed at all? Maybe it has a slightly surprised expression on its face.
 
BringNaniBack said:
He needs to do it in the premier league where there is less time and space on the ball before it starts shrinking. He is very good when he has time and space but when rushed and closed down he becomes very average so the test is if he can overcome this.
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And what you need to do is be patient and let the guy settle.

You keep going on about doing it in the PL when he already has 2 MOTM performances under his belt in 8 games against Pl opponents (Southampton and Leicester)
 
Patience is still needed and will still be needed in the next few months and that is whether he plays well or not. We have many posters who like to draw conclusions very easily.
 
Stack said:
No, thats when he is very good and thats what sets him apart from the rest. His ability to improvise with his footwork and ball control when under pressure is superb. He did that a few times tonight with some very lovely bits of skill while being pressured by 2 or 3 defenders. His problem has been that he simply hasnt settled yet, once he has this thread will be forgotten.
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And there you have your answer but it's becoming harder and harder to expect people to understand the simplest things.

I mean all it takes is just a second to realise that we're way early into the season and some players coming from other countries and league might have not settled yet and would naturally need time.
 
Santoryo said:
And there you have your answer but it's becoming harder and harder to expect people to understand the simplest things.

I mean all it takes is just a second to realise that we're way early into the season and some players coming from other countries and league might have not settled yet and would naturally need time.
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I remember how long it took Evra to settle.
 
He's had little or no pre season so that's worth taking into consideration. He'll be our key player as the season progresses, I'm sure.
 
Stack said:
No, thats when he is very good and thats what sets him apart from the rest. His ability to improvise with his footwork and ball control when under pressure is superb. He did that a few times tonight with some very lovely bits of skill while being pressured by 2 or 3 defenders. His problem has been that he simply hasnt settled yet, once he has this thread will be forgotten.
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No that's when he dwells on the ball for to long. The pressure he was under tonight was at a far softer and slower pace then against many of the teams in the premier league. The performances in the league speak for themselves. Nothing against the guy but he needs to get used to the pace of the game here.
 
Santoryo said:
And what you need to do is be patient and let the guy settle.

You keep going on about doing it in the PL when he already has 2 MOTM performances under his belt in 8 games against Pl opponents (Southampton and Leicester)
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I am being patient. I am happy to wait and watch him reach his potential. I'm simply explaining why he looks good with time on the ball and looks average with less time on the ball.
 
It even took World class player like Suarez 6 months to settle in at Barcelona. Don't think this is an issue..
Played really well tonight.
 
embarrassing thread to be honest, funny how quickly all the Einsteins shut up.
 
It's honestly such a trite cycle, and it always repeats: "This very good player, newly arrived, hasn't played as good since he came to us. He's overrated and shit and will never be good for us!" -> "Ah, he's had a good game. I knew he would be world class the minute he arrived." -> "Oh, he had a terrible game against Boro, see; I knew he was terrible and will always be terrible for us."

I know many of us don't see it like this, but reading the forum is just an endless cycle based on reactions from the most recent events. The Pogba case being an obvious example, I feel.
 
Adebesi said:
So to the people who think there's a baby elephant in the room. Is it shrinking?
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Funny how thread started bumped this thread whenever he had poor game but disappeared when Pogba had good game.
 
Adebesi said:
So to the people who think there's a baby elephant in the room. Is it shrinking?
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Yes and no. He was terrific last night (after he scored anyway). He was also terrific against Southampton. In between, not so much.

He's young and still adapting to the team/league so some inconsistency is to be expected. If/when performances like these two become the norm then we'll know he's the real deal and all remaining doubts will evaporate. Of course, none of this changes the reasonable observation that he's taken a little longer than we all would have hoped to consistently look like the world class player we hoped we'd signed.
 
roonster09 said:
Funny how thread started bumped this thread whenever he had poor game but disappeared when Pogba had good game.
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Funnier how people are getting carried away because Pogba managed to do something in a Mickey Mouse cup game.
 
I do not think that Pogba looked that bad in the Liverpool game. Not worth 100 Mio but not nearly as abysmal as stated everywhere.
 
rocks13 said:
Funnier how people are getting carried away because Pogba managed to do something in a Mickey Mouse cup game.
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Fenerbache are stronger than half of the teams in the league.
 
BringNaniBack said:
No that's when he dwells on the ball for to long. The pressure he was under tonight was at a far softer and slower pace then against many of the teams in the premier league.
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That's a ridiculous assessment. He is made for the premier league - strong, fast, quick feet.
Pogba thrives when put under pressure as said by one poster earlier. His best attribute is his amazing footwork which he can use when players try to press him.

I feel these two goals will give him a lot of confidence to go on and do this regularly in the PL now.
 
Stack said:
No, thats when he is very good and thats what sets him apart from the rest. His ability to improvise with his footwork and ball control when under pressure is superb. He did that a few times tonight with some very lovely bits of skill while being pressured by 2 or 3 defenders. His problem has been that he simply hasnt settled yet, once he has this thread will be forgotten.
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Yeah, a little mythical this idea that Pogba needs acres of space and time, his best performance this season (against Southampton) came in a game where he was repeatedly closed down and not given space, he won so many one on one duels in that game.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Yes and no. He was terrific last night (after he scored anyway). He was also terrific against Southampton. In between, not so much.

He's young and still adapting to the team/league so some inconsistency is to be expected. If/when performances like these two become the norm then we'll know he's the real deal and all remaining doubts will evaporate. Of course, none of this changes the reasonable observation that he's taken a little longer than we all would have hoped to consistently look like the world class player we hoped we'd signed.
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I've not been surprised at all by him so far. I think it will be a few months before he's properly settled and longer before he reaches a level of consistency that you're talking about. I genuinely think the main issue is we paid a load of money for him so people expect him to be winning games on his own.

If you're wondering whether he's improved us significantly, take him out of the team this season and think about who would have been playing instead of him, and what that might have meant for our performances.
 
Leroy The Red said:
Yeah, a little mythical this idea that Pogba needs acres of space and time, his best performance this season (against Southampton) came in a game where he was repeatedly closed down and not given space, he won so many one on one duels in that game.
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Well his worst performance this season also came in a game where he was closed down quickly and he was generally ineffective at Anfield.

I personally believe his best performance was against Leicester but certainly you can make a strong case for Southampton. I think he's shown when he IS afforded the space and time he is more likely to execute the right move, and when put under the pressure he has made the wrong call more than a few times. Does that mean he can only be effective with space and time? No. So on that front I agree. For me he just needs time to adapt to the PL, because he needs to get used to making his decision and executing them on the spot in some cases. He's shown he can do that with his close control and dribbling already, so I'm talking more about his passing and making space for a shot.
 
noodlehair said:
I've not been surprised at all by him so far. I think it will be a few months before he's properly settled and longer before he reaches a level of consistency that you're talking about. I genuinely think the main issue is we paid a load of money for him so people expect him to be winning games on his own.

If you're wondering whether he's improved us significantly, take him out of the team this season and think about who would have been playing instead of him, and what that might have meant for our performances.
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Its explicit, the first liine of the OP is:

sammsky1 said:
£90m+ should buy you instant world class impact.
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I think people are just on edge. The difficulties of the last few years have taken their toll and left them feeling anxious and insecure. So like a child in a dark room, convinced there is a monster or an intruder standing by their wardrobe, a flick of the light switch reveals it was nothing of the sort, but merely a towel thrown over a chair. And in this case, what seemed to be an elephant - a baby elephant infused with some strange growth hormone - was actually nothing more than a young foreign player, for whom we have overpaid massively, taking a little time to adjust to his new environment. The experience of having first Moyes and then Van Gaal as managers is, if you think about it, pretty much the equivalent of letting a 10 year old watch a scary horror movie just before bed, its no wonder people are seeing monsters / baby elephants in the shadows. Throw in some of the SNAFUs in the transfer market we have seen in the last few years, people are understandably concerned its going to happen again. Hopefully he'll put in a few more performances like this and itll be like flicking on the light switch, everything will seem less daunting again.
 
Great shot, great goal.

But I do hate these preplanned, rehearsed 'celebrations' which we saw with him and Lingard - which was just as good shot and goal, by the way.

And I'll bet we won't see him play as well as he did last night in the EPL anytime soon - apples and oranges, the EPL and Europa League.
 
Full bodied red said:
I do hate these preplanned, rehearsed 'celebrations' which we saw with him and Lingard - which was just as good shot and goal, by the way.
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I actually quite like it, simply because it suggests a level of friendship and solidarity among the players - especially these two players and the others who came through the academy, such as Rashford. It was the same with that weird post from a couple of weeks ago where Lingard posted clips of Pogba and Rashford while doing those silly impressions of them - quite silly and immature in themselves, but harmless, and indicative of a positive and happy dressing room.

I feel like that kind of bond is invaluable, that it will be beneficial to us in a quite tangible way as the season progresses. It reminds me a bit of Yorke and Cole, in a way, though they were perhaps a little less childish (or we had less insight into what they were like around Carrington.) Or even, dare I say it, the Class of 92 Dynamic - though obviously on a smaller scale.

Let them celebrate like fannies and post ridiculous shit on Twitter if they want, whatever makes them happy and motivated and leads to better performances.
 
rocks13 said:
Funnier how people are getting carried away because Pogba managed to do something in a Mickey Mouse cup game.
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Lol, you'll be saying that Memphis' performance against Midgetland wasn't the turning point in his United career next!
 
This thread is funny. Pogba is a great talent however its also evident that he needs an experienced Carrick-Pirlo like player at his back. Blind maybe?
 
Adebesi said:
Its explicit, the first liine of the OP is:



I think people are just on edge. The difficulties of the last few years have taken their toll and left them feeling anxious and insecure. So like a child in a dark room, convinced there is a monster or an intruder standing by their wardrobe, a flick of the light switch reveals it was nothing of the sort, but merely a towel thrown over a chair. And in this case, what seemed to be an elephant - a baby elephant infused with some strange growth hormone - was actually nothing more than a young foreign player, for whom we have overpaid massively, taking a little time to adjust to his new environment. The experience of having first Moyes and then Van Gaal as managers is, if you think about it, pretty much the equivalent of letting a 10 year old watch a scary horror movie just before bed, its no wonder people are seeing monsters / baby elephants in the shadows. Throw in some of the SNAFUs in the transfer market we have seen in the last few years, people are understandably concerned its going to happen again. Hopefully he'll put in a few more performances like this and itll be like flicking on the light switch, everything will seem less daunting again.
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He'll put in plenty of really good performances, but there'll also be less effective ones..or rather games where he plays well or ok but because he just goes about his business rather than looking like the world's best player, people will criticise.

There'll also be games like at Anfield where Jose will want the team to do a job rather than impose themselves, and where Pogba will be used as part of that. People are just going to have to get used to it. Ferguson used to do it and wasn't afraid to sacrifice very good players or play them in different roles for a particular opponent or fixture.

Pogba will be at his best in our midfield for me and there's no reason why he can't play in a midfield two, because he has the athleticism to do it. As demonstrated by all of his best performances so far for us. I don't think there's anything wrong with him and Herrera as a partnership either. Herrera is a better central midfielder in termms of discipline than he's given credit for. The problem is it wont work in every game, and when you add a third midfielder, that's when it becomes difficult to fit everyone into a role they're comfortable playing.

I'd still like to see Blind in that kind of situation but he's doing a pretty good job at left back now and Shaw looked rusty on Thursday.
 
noodlehair said:
He'll put in plenty of really good performances, but there'll also be less effective ones..or rather games where he plays well or ok but because he just goes about his business rather than looking like the world's best player, people will criticise.

There'll also be games like at Anfield where Jose will want the team to do a job rather than impose themselves, and where Pogba will be used as part of that. People are just going to have to get used to it. Ferguson used to do it and wasn't afraid to sacrifice very good players or play them in different roles for a particular opponent or fixture.

Pogba will be at his best in our midfield for me and there's no reason why he can't play in a midfield two, because he has the athleticism to do it. As demonstrated by all of his best performances so far for us. I don't think there's anything wrong with him and Herrera as a partnership either. Herrera is a better central midfielder in termms of discipline than he's given credit for. The problem is it wont work in every game, and when you add a third midfielder, that's when it becomes difficult to fit everyone into a role they're comfortable playing.

I'd still like to see Blind in that kind of situation but he's doing a pretty good job at left back now and Shaw looked rusty on Thursday.
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Shaw will eventually return as a first teamer. I think its time we try Blind in CM. I also believe that Schneiderlin should be given a second chance. He was a beast at Southampton
 
devilish said:
Shaw will eventually return as a first teamer. I think its time we try Blind in CM. I also believe that Schneiderlin should be given a second chance. He was a beast at Southampton
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Yeah Shaw will be at left back once he's got his sharpness back, but at this exact moment Blind is needed more there than in midfield. I do think he's worth a try in midfield though, as part of a three. He's not Michael Carrick like people seem to think because he doesn't read the game nearly as well, but he does get about the pitch well enough and can pick a pass.

Schneiderlin I'm not so sure of. If he puts the work in on the training ground I'm sure Jose will give him a chance as long as we still have enough fixtures to go around, but he's still got it all to prove because he's shown nothing in a United shirt so far.
 
BringNaniBack said:
No that's when he dwells on the ball for to long. The pressure he was under tonight was at a far softer and slower pace then against many of the teams in the premier league. The performances in the league speak for themselves. Nothing against the guy but he needs to get used to the pace of the game here.
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Slower and softer pressure? How does that work? Do they only pretend to press or something?

Edit: it does sound as if just because the Europa is a lesser league, then everything that happens in it must be of a lesser quality.
 
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