Australia Tour of South Africa 2018/Ball tampering

Sheer delusion to think that all teams are like this. Everyone in sport knows that the Australian cricket team are a special collection of pricks.
How many teams have had controversy surrounding them? Faf last year, the Indian cricket team a few years back, Stokes and Bairstow recently, Pakistan a decade or so ago. The only difference in opinion that we have is that I reckon all the teams are filled with cnuts, not just Aus. This cheating is fecking bad because it's premeditated, but how different is it to RSA, Pakistan etc? All are shameful. I'm an Aussie, yes, and I love cricket, but I'm not gonna blindly defend those morons for quite literally cheating. It's reprehensible, but to carry on like they've disgraced the 'gentleman's' game is lunacy. The game already had a problem, and while the Aussies do lie at the root of it, the buck certainly doesn't stop with them.

Don't believe me? Read this.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-03-...ring-shame-stacks-up-with-other-cases/9584594
 
This is getting really overblown I feel. I've no doubt all teams engage in ball tampering what with the rules being so vague and ripe for exploitation. Player don't just put on copious amount of sunscreen for protection against the sun. Finger nails are and will continue to be used for ball tampering. It's really not very hard hide this stuff from the umpires if you're clever enough. Most teams are just a lot more subtle with it than the Aussies were.

ICC should just make certain types of ball tampering legal so it's all out in the open and players don't have to resort to hidden sand papers.
You're spot on. It's still unforgivable, but I'd say it's more widespread than many believe.
 
This is getting really overblown I feel. I've no doubt all teams engage in ball tampering what with the rules being so vague and ripe for exploitation. Player don't just put on copious amount of sunscreen for protection against the sun. Finger nails are and will continue to be used for ball tampering. It's really not very hard hide this stuff from the umpires if you're clever enough. Most teams are just a lot more subtle with it than the Aussies were.

ICC should just make certain types of ball tampering legal so it's all out in the open and players don't have to resort to hidden sand papers.

There's a wider debate to be had on what the boundaries of ball tampering are (i.e. throwing the ball on the half bounce, bowling a side of the ball into the pitch etc.) but the crux of why this is so big right now is how the 'leadership team' collectively came together decided this was a legitimate tactic to get back into the game, got the most inexperienced guy to do their bidding and then brazenly tried to lie on the field about it to the umpires even though there's 30 cameras on them. This is in action is somewhat similar to the Amir no-ball stuff.

Other teams are more subtle because they aren't arrogant enough to think they can get away with anything more than what they do, everything will be picked up on camera and throwing the ball on the half bounce and the old sun-tan lotion trick are the only two tactics most teams try. It's very bad when half the team is seemingly in on it too (i.e. why did no one say woah, woah what are we doing here?).
 
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Why haven't 5 penalty runs been awarded? And were SA allowed to pick a replacement ball this morning?
 
This is getting really overblown I feel. I've no doubt all teams engage in ball tampering what with the rules being so vague and ripe for exploitation. Player don't just put on copious amount of sunscreen for protection against the sun. Finger nails are and will continue to be used for ball tampering. It's really not very hard hide this stuff from the umpires if you're clever enough. Most teams are just a lot more subtle with it than the Aussies were.

ICC should just make certain types of ball tampering legal so it's all out in the open and players don't have to resort to hidden sand papers.
jeez :lol:
 
There's a wider debate to be had on what the boundaries of ball tampering are (i.e. throwing the ball on the half bounce, bowling a side of the ball into the pitch etc.) but the crux of why this is so big right now is how the 'leadership team' collectively came together decided this was a legitimate tactic to get back into the game, got the most inexperienced guy to do their bidding and then brazenly tried to lie on the field about it to the umpires even though there's 30 cameras on them. This is in action is somewhat similar to the Amir no-ball stuff.

Other teams are more subtle because they aren't arrogant enough to think they can get away with anything more than what they do, everything will be picked up on camera and throwing the ball on the half bounce and the old sun-tan lotion trick are the only two . It's very bad when half the team is seemingly in on it.

Whether the Aussies were particularly arrogant and how low it was for them to give it to Bancroft is a different discussion. I would agree with you on that. It's hilarious to see the ex Aussie players coming out against it. They were undoubtedly guilty of the same crime as well.

I think it's very naive to think the "leadership team" of other countries are not aware of ball tampering. Keeping the ball in prime shape for reverse swing is usually a team responsibility even if only the one guy is assigned the duty of actually tampering with the ball. We don't need to wait for players to retire and write a book to know ball tampering happens with every fecking team.

The ICC should make the rules crystal clear. The current rules are rubbish and almost deliberately vague. Make it very clear on what is and what's not allowed.
 
This is getting really overblown I feel. I've no doubt all teams engage in ball tampering what with the rules being so vague and ripe for exploitation. Player don't just put on copious amount of sunscreen for protection against the sun. Finger nails are and will continue to be used for ball tampering. It's really not very hard hide this stuff from the umpires if you're clever enough. Most teams are just a lot more subtle with it than the Aussies were.

ICC should just make certain types of ball tampering legal so it's all out in the open and players don't have to resort to hidden sand papers.

Are you having a laugh? They got caught blatantly cheating and you think its overblown? :wenger:
 
Whether the Aussies were particularly arrogant and how low it was for them to give it to Bancroft is a different discussion. I would agree with you on that. It's hilarious to see the ex Aussie players coming out against it. They were undoubtedly guilty of the same crime as well.

I think it's very naive to think the "leadership team" of other countries are not aware of ball tampering. Keeping the ball in prime shape for reverse swing is usually a team responsibility even if only the one guy is assigned the duty of actually tampering with the ball. We don't need to wait for players to retire and write a book to know ball tampering happens with every fecking team.

The ICC should make the rules crystal clear. The current rules are rubbish and almost deliberately vague. Make it very clear on what is and what's not allowed.

Again, feel there's a big difference between coming together and trying to figure out a way to mess with the condition of the ball to hasten reverse swing and being aware of the grey areas that teams currently take advantage of. Until someone is punished everyone will do the same. The defense that other people are also doing bad things so my bad thing is not that bad is not a very good defense. They got caught, they will get punished and made an example of and hopefully this will push the ICC to tighten the rules around it.
 
Again, feel there's a big difference between coming together and trying to figure out a way to mess with the condition of the ball to hasten reverse swing and being aware of the grey areas that teams currently take advantage of. Until someone is punished everyone will do the same. The defense that other people are also doing bad things so my bad thing is not that bad is not a very good defense. They got caught, they will get punished and made an example of and hopefully this will push the ICC to tighten the rules around it.

To be clear, I'm not defending them. Smith and co should punished for violating the rules.

My point is that this is extremely widespread and ICC need to take a long look at their rules. There is zero difference between say applying sun screen or moisturizer or candy on the ball or using sand paper. They're all foreign substances designed to alter the ball. They're all illegal and multiple of players have admitted to doing so. The rules are crap and unenforceable in many cases. The Aussies being particularly blatant is neither here nor there.
 
Are we taking the words of Steve Smith as gospel and believe it as yellow tape and not sandpaper, or has any evidence been provided?

I wouldn't trust Lehman to cover up even if he gives the yellow tape in question..
 
To be clear, I'm not defending them. Smith and co should punished for violating the rules.

My point is that this is extremely widespread and ICC need to take a long look at their rules. There is zero difference between say applying sun screen or moisturizer or candy on the ball or using sand paper. They're all foreign substances designed to alter the ball. They're all illegal and multiple of players have admitted to doing so. The rules are crap and unenforceable in many cases. The Aussies being particularly blatant is neither here nor there.

The rules need rewriting but the Australian captain admitted to cheating within the current ones, this is a big deal.
 
Fair play to Australia. It takes a lot of effort for a team about 2 years young to be known as the biggest cnuts in cricket in 20 years
 
Seen the press conference on SSN - “The leadership group” - wtf is that?!

Also they seemed very calm about the whole thing. Bet this has happened before & would probably have happened again had the cameras not caught him. cnuts.

Leadership group = Smith, Warner, Starc, Hazlewood and Lyon.

Quite enjoying the Australians tying themselves in knots over how the game of cricket should played. I mean it's incredible to hear Darren Lehmann define where the line is considering his history. The ball tampering stuff is the icing on the cake, so brazen and most definitely not the first time they have done it because it's such a precise method. Guilt was etched all over Smith and Bancroft when they were talking to the umpires :lol:.

What I will never understand about Australia is why they play so confrontationally and why they are always willing to push and bend the boundaries of the game in order to win. They have and have always had incredible players and I do not believe for one second that if they approached the game any differently that their ability to be good at cricket would diminish but I am convinced Australia do feel that and it results in the nonsense we have seen from them this past winter (and basically forever).

There's a wider discussion to be had on ball tampering and what the boundaries truly are (i.e. throwing the ball on the bounce/bowling on one side of the ball etc) and if there should be a newer ball earlier (after 60 overs) to stop teams having to resort to the nonsense we see from them with sun lotion, cough sweets, tape and the rest. However that can wait for now :D.

Australia have no moral high ground to pontificate about player behaviour now. That's if they ever did by the way. This will be a stain for all involved.

They dont seem to be laughing as much as their last press conference together.

:lol: Very true. Bancroft and Smith were chuckling at a beat up in comparison to this.

The Australian team draws the ire of everyone because no one can stand their pontificating about how the game should be played.

Everything with how teams behave now is a direct response to the attitude instigated by the Australian team of the mid to late 90s. I feel now is the point where a line needs to drawn before it goes too far, because it will go too far.

And the way Bancroft got caught is hard to pick up, it was only when he was dropping shit into his pants did it all come together. The sleight of hand with the tape on the hand and him shining the ball was very hard to pick up. Doesn't look very isolated from the images above either.

Everyone should play the game like New Zealand do, who manage to be an excellent side without being a bunch of pricks very easily.


Australia will never do that. International cricket, international sport is about winning. Australia need to find a balance between playing to win, playing hard while playing within the spirit and rules of the game. They've failed to do both so far. Their coach and leaders have brought the game of cricket and Australian cricket into disrepute and should pay with their jobs. Play to win, don't cheat, don't violate the spirit of cricket. I'm hoping that's the mantra of the next captain and coach of Australia's cricket team.

This might be controversial but I do have some sympathy for Bancroft in all this.

This was definitely a plan hatched from the very top including management imo. He was simply chosen to be the fall guy because of his relative inexperience. Smith says that the leadership group all agreed to do this. Why didn't one of them lead by example and personally do the honours?

I would give Smith a longer ban honestly.

All fair points. I have sympathy with Bancroft to a point. He's 26 this year, he's been playing cricket long enough to that what was being planned was wrong and should not have seen the light of day. It was weak of the Australian captain to get a very inexperienced player to engage in this sort of behaviour.
 
[QUOTE="Xaviesta, post: 22332960, member] : He's 26 this year, he's been playing cricket long enough to that what was being planned was wrong and should not have seen the light of day. It was weak of the Australian captain to get a very inexperienced player to engage in this sort of behaviour.[/QUOTE]
26?! No excuse then
 
Steve Smith and Dave Warner agreed to step down from their leadership positions within the Australian team paving the way for Tim Paine to captain Australia for the rest of this test.

If Australia does find a way to win this test, it won't be a cause for celebration for the vast majority here. A win or even a draw will feel tainted. I know Smith claimed Lehmann didn't have a part to play in this but win, lose or draw in this series, his position must be reviewed.
 
I think CA will sach Lehmann after this series. Smith would probably be re-instated as captain after some time.
 
One very sad element of this came to mind today. Yesterday, i read an article on Bill Brown, a member of Australia's Invincibles who passed away a decade ago at the age of 96. He said the following about the 1948 tour of England, just three years after the 2nd World War: ''When people mention the invincibles, i want to raise a toast to England who remained invincible''.

Compare the dignity and the humility in that quote to the rubbish from this Australian team in this series. We had the Durban stairwell incident the behavior after De Villiers was run out in the first test, Mitch Marsh saying ''feck off, you cnut'' to Radada in PE and the deliberate, pre planned cheating in Cape Town. They better be clean skins in Johannesburg but the damage has been done.
 
The rules need rewriting but the Australian captain admitted to cheating within the current ones, this is a big deal.

Does him admitting to it make it worse? I'm not defending him per se but Du Plesis got cheating (Didn't admit guilt), Kohli got caught tampering (Wasn't even punished). And now you have Michael Vaughan lecturing Aussies on cheating when his greatest moment was built on cheating and then lying about it until Trescothic admitted to it. I get that the Aussies can be particularly cnutish in the way they go about things which may explain the outrage which is fair enough. They don't make it easy for themselves with their behaviour, that's for sure.
 
I think CA will sach Lehmann after this series. Smith would probably be re-instated as captain after some time.
Never liked Lehmann, seems a tosser. I don’t think they’ll sack anyone though. The whole team probably knew, or most of them anyway. They’re going to have to collectively attone for their idiocy I suppose.
 
Lehmann must be relieved of his duties after the series. Never again do i want to hear an Australian player say they'll push/headbutt the line from here on.
 
To be fair to the Aus players, Faf has actually been found guilty of ball tampering twice. I think yesterday's ball tampering has been so heavily focused on because of the bad sportsmanship in this series so far.
 
To be fair to the Aus players, Faf has actually been found guilty of ball tampering twice. I think yesterday's ball tampering has been so heavily focused on because of the bad sportsmanship in this series so far.

it is also because of the deliberate attempt to fool match officials and cover their tracks, the admission that it was a pre-mediated group decision to gain an unfair advantage and the utter hypocrisy of a team whose mantra has been "hard but fair"

The Australians tried to bully SA the same way they try to bully every team by "headbutting the line". When the protea's pushed back they couldn't handle it. Then when they couldn't match up on the field they resorted to cheating.

This whole scenario sickens me, I just wanna watch good cricket
 
To be fair to the Aus players, Faf has actually been found guilty of ball tampering twice. I think yesterday's ball tampering has been so heavily focused on because of the bad sportsmanship in this series so far.

I think there is a difference in types of ball tampering. Brining a foreign object like a sandpaper on the field after a discussion over "strategy" during lunch break is different that someone using a zipper on their pants or excessive saliva.
 
I think there is a difference in types of ball tampering. Brining a foreign object like a sandpaper on the field after a discussion over "strategy" during lunch break is different that someone using a zipper on their pants or excessive saliva.

Exactly right - It is the premeditated nature of it.

Clearly they have a problematic culture in the side from top to bottom.
 
It’s almost always premeditated imo. The biggest difference this time is that the evidence is so damning.
 
Stuart Broad :D

"I saw Steve Smith in his press conference say it's the first time they've tried it - which to me, it's surprising why they'd change a method that's been working," Broad said.

"Look at the Ashes series we've just played, all those Test matches, and they've reverse-swung the ball sometimes in conditions you wouldn't expect it to. I don't understand why they've changed their method for this one game.

"There was no evidence that they were doing this in the Ashes series, from what I've seen."

Speaking in Auckland at the close of the fourth day's play against New Zealand, Broad also accused Australia's coach, Darren Lehmann, of hypocrisy, after his claims that the Newlands crowd had been "disgraceful" in the levels of abuse they had directed at his players.

This is the same Lehmann, after all, who told an Australian radio show in 2013 that he hoped that Australia's own crowds would heap so much abuse on Broad during that winter's Ashes campaign that they would send him home "crying" from the tour.

"That's your word, not mine, but I would agree with you," he said when asked about the apparent hypocrisy. "You look at the quotes from that 2013 interview - where he [Lehmann] basically asked a country to send an opposition player home crying.

"I didn't. We lost the series, but it didn't make me cry - and I quite enjoyed the series. I then can't understand why you'd come out and moan about a different country and what they're saying to their players.

"I've always been a bit of a believer in sport, if someone looks you in the eye you look them back in the eye; if someone wants to take you on verbally, then they've started that fight [so] you're allowed to say something back.

"Just from the outside, it looks like Australia have started a lot of fights and then [are] moaning when someone comes back.

"Cricket is a tough game, and international cricket [more so]. Verbals have always been in the game, and Australia have always been quite famous for that. Having played in a few Ashes series, I'm used to that and don't mind it at all I like sport to be competitive.

"But this series, I don't really understand Darren Lehmann saying the South African crowd have been out of order. Any England player that has toured Australia can laugh at those comments really, because some of the things we hear on the pitch from Australian supporters - known as 'banter' - I know is worse than South Africa.

"It looks like things might change for that team for a bit."

On the extent to which the controversy has detracted from what has otherwise been a fascinating tussle between two well-matched teams, Broad added: "It's obviously a real shame not what you want to see in cricket. Two brilliant teams, [but] it has seemed to be marred with the Rabada stuff and now the ball-tampering issue.

"It's obviously bringing cricket into the news, not in a way cricket fans and cricket players want."

http://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/22906812/stuart-broad-pours-scorn-australian-double-standards
 
Smith is toast. The Aussie media have completely turned on him. There's no bigger position in Australia than the Aussie cricket captain and you can't have a cheat there.
 
The front page of Monday morning's 'The Australian' newspaper says it all.

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Bancroft is lucky. Smith deservedly fined 100% of his match fee and rightly suspended. Tim Paine will probably be captain for the Johannesburg test.
 
Not sure I understand what he's implying when he's talking about the ball tampering at the start of that interview? Is he saying that he believed the Aussies tampered with the ball during the Ashes too? The next line from Broad, "there was no evidence that they were doing this in the Ashes series, from what I've seen" is throwing me off.
That's now I read it. He's thrown in some lines to mix it up so he can't be charged with anything but the implications are quite clear imo
 
Not sure I understand what he's implying when he's talking about the ball tampering at the start of that interview? Is he saying that he believed the Aussies tampered with the ball during the Ashes too? The next line from Broad, "there was no evidence that they were doing this in the Ashes series, from what I've seen" is throwing me off.
Yep. He's suggesting they just did it more subtly during the Ashes so no evidence was found.
 
It's so funny how former English players like Vaughan, Pietersen Hussain Strauss and others are so bitter and act like they have never done anything bad. Not a fan of Smith and what he did but hate when ex English players act houlier than though. Bunch of hypocrites they are.

More than this incident I was more frustrated with Smith's whining and moaning for SA,s sledging. Can never take aussies seriously when they complain about other team regarding sledging.