Arturo Vidal
- Thread starter The Don
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I just went back to the post you replied to.
Come on how can you say that first XI won't be anywhere near the best? Give us your realistic united first team that would be near the best then... I dare yaaa
You're writing this as if there is anything more solid than a couple of foreign newspapers and ITKs on Vidal!
The Fabregas stuff last summer was way more prominent than the Vidal stuff, and we know how that went.
Oh hell no, I want Di Maria and Hummels to complement Vidal, no fecking way would I be happy with De Vrij and Depay wdf
About time the Glazers actually splashed some serious cash and injected quality into the team.
Shaw, Januzaj and Rafael. None of them are currently good enough for a team that would be the best in Europe. Rafael was the season before last and on that form he'd be ahead of Carvajal...maybe, but Lahm or even Dani Alves? Never.
Herrera wouldn't get in to any of the top European teams midfield, Evans wouldn't get anywhere near any of the top European teams defense. Mata wouldn't start for any of Bayern, Madrid or Barcelona. Van Persie is good but when other teams are packing Ronaldo and Messi upfront? Not even close. That team still lacks one of the absolute best players in the world up top.
Madrid have Ronaldo (And Bale ffs), Bayern have Robben (Ribery as well) and Barcelona have Messi and now probably Suarez. RvP is good but is he on their level? Not for me. Bale's maybe.
Seriously, Vidal's a top midfielder but Herrera is still unproven at a top team and it wouldn't be the best midfield in Europe. The defence would be nowhere near and the attacking force is very good but still not on Madrid, Bayern or Barca level.
It'd squash the league and do well in the CL and could possibly win it but it wouldn't be the best team on paper.
You can't possibly make a realistic United XI that will be the best in Europe in one transfer window. Over a few seasons with LvG, sure you could get there. Right now you are still officially the 7th best team in the league (I think that's a false position but still) and need to calm down a bit.
Actually no, I don't believe any of the rumours so far, I am just waiting for a reliable British source to start breaking it. At the moment it's just shit like the mirror, Daily Fail et al.
let's just accept that we'd at least have a team who could pretend to compete with the best, rather than that ultra defensive job we saw v Bayern last year
How does everyone think Vidal stacks up to Yaya? Better? Worse? Different?
That team would certainly compete, no doubt about that its a very good side and would be the best in the league. You won't get Hummels though (very unlikely) and Vidal is still far from anything done, nor is Di Maria so its all just guesswork.
I completely agree but do you honestly think the glazers will spend £200m? I don't, that's why I said Shaw, Herrera and hopefully Vidal would be our big signings and we'd make up our numbers with some young/smaller signings.Oh hell no, I want Di Maria and Hummels to complement Vidal, no fecking way would I be happy with De Vrij and Depay wdf
About time the Glazers actually splashed some serious cash and injected quality into the team.
I know but things change..you get greedier and you want even more. You have teams who were far better last season who have strengthened just as much..Chelsea for example. To top that we have to push the boat out. Vidal for example would open the door to other top tier footballers willing to join us in this window. If the money is there, make hay while the sun shines......
Much better defensively because Yaya is a lazy fecker that won't get back. More consistent (actually delivers for 90 minute rather than 5 minute bursts) and far more energetic in general. They are very different players in truth.
Not as good going forward as Yaya though.
Or sell as Rooney Mata Adnan and RVP is hard to envisage in the first 11. Also lacking in pace for me......
Is Van Persie on Bale, Suarez, Robben, and Ribery's level?
Edit: The rest of your post is pretty fair tbh. But that paragraph is ludicrous.
Is Van Persie on Bale, Suarez, Robben, and Ribery's level?
He's on Bale's level and Ribery's if you go off last season.
Suarez and Robben though? Absolutely not, when you take in to account recent form. Take the blinkers off please, Suarez has just annihilated the league and is arguably the best striker in the world and Robben is probably the third best player in the world right now.
That's a good one. I'd probably put him in the same bracket as Yaya. Only because I don't want to big him up too much
You forget that we had Moyes last season, now we have King Louis
Suarez is a great player who had a great season, but he's not better then Van Persie. No chance. Same with Robben. Van Persie finished the two seasons before last as the leagues top scorer with a total of 56 goals. Lets not forget this.
As has been explained by a few people, Alonso is a holding midfielder. In fact both him and Modric hold more than Vidal, so I'm not sure they're great examples. Really, Alonso is nothing like Vidal or Herrera in that regard, for both Spain and Madrid he sits deep, holds his position and dictates the play with his passing. Vidal presses all over the pitch and pops up everywhere in attack. He'll play in and around the box which is something you never see from Alonso and he does it to a far greater extent than Modric as well.
Saying it's the future off football is just silly, I could say that about anything and until more teams actually play that way it may as well be pulled from thin air. Currently no top sides play like this. And really I can't see why it would be the future, that really doesn't make sense to me. Vidal would be better next to Javi Martinez than Herrera, I really have no doubt about that. This whole idea of being restricted 'just some of the time' doesn't seem like a good argument, when there are potential partnerships which wouldn't restrict him at all.
What are you basing that on? Last season was an anomaly in Yaya's 14 year career. He scored about as much then as he had his whole career before joining City.
They play different roles. Yaya has been given more freedom with City to go forward. With less responsibility at the back it's easier to look better going forward. If United buy Vidal he will arrive in Manchester at the same age as Yaya did. Pretty good timing for comparisons. I rated Yaya when he was bought but I didn't rate him as highly as Vidal at the time of purchase. I rated Yaya about as much as I rated Vidal when Juventus bought him (if that makes sense). Yaya has the natural physical advantage but that's about it.
I do agree that they are different players. Vidal is definitely more consistent from what I've seen. Seems to rarely have a poor game. That's better overall imo.
Dante a weak link compared to Evans? This is a guy who was incredible for Bayern not long ago. He's not as good but he's a hell of a lot better than Evans.
GOTZE COMPARABLE TO JANUZAJ?! This is the worst, seriously. I get that you guys really, really like Januzaj but Gotze is one of the best youngsters in the entire world, has been doing it at the top level for a few years now as well as being a seasoned German international. Januzaj has barely just emerged, can't even get minutes for Belgium ahead of Chadli and Mirallas.
Gotze is a bit of a weak link right now but he's still a top, top player and on a totally different stratosphere to Januzaj right now. Do not compare the two.
Pedro would waltz in to your team ahead of your wingers with one leg, so to brand him a weakness is an absolute joke. Not sure where the hell you've got that from. Mascherano is rubbish at CB as is Barca's defense so that's fair enough.
Carvajal is not a weakness and has been very solid in that right back role.
Anyway, this isn't just about identifying "weaknesses." When you look at Madrid/Barca/Bayern lineups they have far more players at the absolute top of the game than even that dream United XI has.
Yeah, we're back. Roll on august.
Yaya is incredible going forward. Maybe he's not always been a goalscorer but he smashes through defenses. He's absolutely explosive at times and right now he's turned himself in to someone who scores goals.
I'd take Vidal every day of the week though. Far more consistent and far better against the absolute top sides.
Yeah, ok mate. Only a United fan would ever think that right now Van Persie is as good or better than Robben or Suarez.
No I don't, I said that was a false position and that's down to Moyes. You'll do a lot better next season, that's for sure.
Yeah, we're back. Roll on august.
Aye, think that's fantastic.
Only thing I would change is a Vermaelen would be the sweeper in the middle with the freedom to push out, he really is perfect for that role and the fact that Van Gaal is looking at him really suggests to me that he's considering the 3-5-2 next season. As a defender I don't rate Vermaelen that highly but as a ball player he was excellent for a centre back - I remember him bursting out from the back and even smashing in a few goals for Arsenal before he got injured.
Why are people suddenly comparing us to Madrid, Barca and Bayern? Baby steps. We need to get back into the CL and challenge for the domestic title before worrying about breaking back into the top 3 of the world.
I was considering Evans being the stopper type of defender, that's why put him in the middle. Vermaelen and smalling as ball players feeding the wing backs. I liked vermaelen when he first arrived in the prem. I think he would improve a lot under LVG, same with smalling.
Agreed it will take a fair few seasons for us to get back where we belong
I'm aware of the difference between the two players, I'm not debating that he holds more, what I'm comparing is defensive capabilities. A player can hold all they like if they can't defend it doesn't make a blind bit of difference. What I'm confident of is they both can defend, and both will have to defend regardless of whether Vidal can free roam or not. You seem to beleive people are suggesting Vidal is going to hold more. Out of the two Herrera would hold more, something he has done previously and is perfectly capable of continuing to do. Having Vidal being a little more restricted isn't going to make a lot of difference because Herrera can then go forward, it all depends who is in a better position.
What's silly is to dismiss anything that's untested, there's sound logic behind this working.
This. Some of you need to stop getting carried away.
RvP top level I think is a notch better than Suarez, also Vidal is the best in his position at the moment, there's no better box to box midfielder. DDG is easily better than what Real & Barca have and may become as good if not better than Neuer as well.
Yeah, ok mate. Only a United fan would ever think that right now Van Persie is as good or better than Robben or Suarez.
Mata has place in Real and Barca team as well.
You suggested Alonso and Modric as a comparison, when it doesn't really apply at all.
I'm not doubting Vidal's defensive contribution at all, the point is that his best asset defensively is that relentless pressing and ball winning which he just naturally combines with pushing up the pitch. Of course he'll defend, but that doesn't mean you want him shielding the defence because it's just a waste.
Herrera adapting and becoming a deeper lying playmaker has been considered and as people have said, if he does that then there wouldn't be any issues.
I'm not dismissing it at all - really no body has. All I said is that it's not the most natural partnership compared with something like Martinez/Vidal, which is a much more complimentary pairing. I think it will work - of course it will - those two are far too good for it not to, and Vidal in particular can play any role at all to a high standard. I just don't think it'll get the best out of either of them as individuals.
1) No - in no world is the current Van Persie a notch better than Suarez who is the best striker in the world right now.
2) Yes, he is.
3) No, he does not. He's nowhere near Iniesta for the NT and would be nowhere near him at Barca. He wouldn't get in to Madrid's side at all.
Vidal is the best box to box midfielder in the world but there isn't that many great ones I can think of. He'd get in to Barca or Madrid's sides for sure though.
The comparison was made not to directly compare their playing styles but to specifically their defensive capabilities. Neither are specialist DMs, I'm sure you wouldve said 2 years ago you'd be daft to play Modric in the role he does now because it would restrict him, you wouldn't say Alonso and Modric would compliment each other either.
No one has suggested Vidal should be shielding the back 4, you keep going back to this for some reason. The suggestion is that if Herrera does go forward then you have a player who is very capable of defending to be able to fill in. Vidal isn't always going to be in the best position to go forward or to press! When he isnt Herrera can without fear of leaving a gaping hold in behind.
Alonso is a deep lying playmaker. He would complement modric perfectly because he shields the back four. Their are two kinds of holding midfielders in football. One is a destroyer type, the other is a deep lying playmaker type. Some like Carvalho, Martinez, etcs., ecompasses both of these attributes.
So Pirlo, a deep lying player is a defensive midfielder is he? Just because a player operates deep doesn't make him a defensive midfielder.
1) Not the current Van Persie. I meant Van Persie from 11-13, now he's not in the same prime.
3) I can see Mata chosen instead of Pedro for example and off Ronaldo, Benzema...
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